Yamaha CK61 and CK88

[multmin]

 

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

On the YC61/73/88, the drawbars send MIDI CC, but the percussion and CV controls do not. 😞 Further complication: the MIDI that the drawbars send cannot be enabled as part of a defined external zone, so while it is workable, it is not as flexible in its implementation as it could be.

 

But as soon as I saw it was a semi-weighted board with real-time organ and synth controls, I thought of you! 🙂 I know that's one of your pet peeves, the dearth of boards with real-time organ and synth controls to put over a piano board. Though it remains to be seen how many synth-specific controls there are, and as mentioned, it's still not a real VA synth there. 11 control knobs shows some potential, though. With luck, the same 11 controls can be dual-purposed to be either effects controls or synth controls (as opposed to, say, 5 dedicated effects controls and 6 dedicated synth controls). And/or the synth controls themselves might be swappable to different functions (e.g.  the same envelope controls can be selected to be filter or amp envelope controls). I'm not counting on it, but I'm hopeful.

 

Good question. The YC and CP models they reference both support 4 external zones, but so far, no external zoning has been mentioned in anything I've seen on  the CK.  I have some optimism here, though, hopefully not misplaced, that it will be there, since what little we can see of the screen interface in conjunction with the YC/CP references in the text makes me think that it was probably "already there" and would have had to essentially been intentionally disabled to do away with it.

 

And actually, that could even be why they talked about being able to "divide the keyboard into two or more sections" since, on the CP/YC, it is the external zone function that allows you to divide the keyboard into more than two sections.

 

You’re reading my mind these days.  

 

I wish it had the AN1X in it.  But I realize not at this price point.  Perhaps in the next YC.  But, as you suggest - a soft synth if they have good controller options.  
 

Looks wise.  It’s basic black.  Very knobby from the player’s perspective.  Not much to see audience side which is fine with me. 
 

Does it have a harp? 🤦‍♂️ 

[AnotherScott]

Highlights from another site:

 

PIANO

"CK features piano sounds from three legendary Yamaha grands: the CFX, S700 and CF3, plus the character-rich U1 upright piano"

 

ORGAN

"CK has a dedicated organ section based on the Yamaha reface YC mobile mini keyboard featuring five different organ types, rotary speaker effect, percussion and a newly enhanced vibrato/chorus. You get nine dedicated drawbars with controls for the rotary speaker, percussion and a vibrato/chorus section."

 

SYNTH

"You get analog style pads, leads and basses, synth brass, strings and pads. Even synth bells and textures to add to your synth sound palette. All with modern synth controls to tweak your sound without menu diving. Elegant filter and envelope generator (EG) controls to shape the tone and amplitude of all of them. Mono mode with panel switch and customization features that are great for synth leads and basses. Unison mode with panel switch, three modes and deeper adjustments."

 

EFFECTS
"It starts with three dedicated effects processors: Drive, Effects 1 and Effects 2 plus an A/D Input with two dedicated Effects.
Drive features five types of overdrive and distortion to add edge to your sound.
Effects 1 and 2 gives you modulation effects like Chorus, Flanger and Phaser. Time-based effects like Delay and Reverb plus Wah, (even more) Drive, Tremolo and experimental synth effects such as Ring Modulation, Slicer, Lo-Fi, and more. Not to mention EQ. With 36 effects in all, it’s like having a built-in, customizable guitar pedal board.
Master Delay lets you choose from four different delay effects including Tempo Delay.
Master Reverb has three different reverb settings to put your sound in the right space. Both Master Delay and Master Reverb have their own send level from each of the three CK parts and A/D Input.
Then finalize the tone of your sound with Master EQ."

[AnotherScott]

Confirmed from that video... it has the 4-zone external MIDI control.

 

Only 4 synth controls though: cutoff, resonance, attack, release. (Unless anything else is hidden in a menu setting or something.)

 

I like that the on/off controls for the 3 sections are all together, reminiscent of the 4 section buttons on a Vox Continental or Hammond SK Pro. That makes it much quicker to turn off one sound and  turn on another, compared to the YC/CP or the Nords, where each section's on/off control is located in a different area of the board. And unlike even the Vox and Hammond, not only are the on/off controls for the sections all together, so are the volume controls.

 

Nice new enhancement compared to the CP/YC... they all let you split/layer 3 internal sounds, but this model lets you define two split points over the board instead of one.

 

 

[Fleer]

2 hours ago, multmin said:

 

So the CK61 has a new action, the man says. 

[AnotherScott]

7 minutes ago, Fleer said:

So the CK61 has a new action, the man says. 

The FSB action is not new, it's on the PSR-700/900 arrangers. I guess you could say it's new to their synth line. I haven't played it, personally.

[HammondDave]

I love Yamaha... I play Yamaha... They are a hundred million dollar corporation. WTF can't they make a decent Hammond sound?  That Hammond and Leslie emulation is a joke!  Really?  For a stage keyboard?  OYYYYY!!!!!!

 

I assume you can't deep dive into the effects of the parts. Or load third party samples... Glad I bought my MODX+. 

[AnotherScott]

3 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

I love Yamaha... I play Yamaha... They are a hundred million dollar corporation. WTF can't they make a decent Hammond sound?  That Hammond and Leslie emulation is a joke!  Really?  For a stage keyboard?  OYYYYY!!!!!!

 

I think the YC61/73/88 organ is quite respectable. But this board is being marketed at a much lower price, still with organ being only a small piece of what it does. Though also, until we get our hands on it, see how it feels, see what characteristics may be tweakable, I think it's a bit early to draw conclusions.

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

The FSB action is not new, it's on the PSR-700/900 arrangers. I guess you could say it's new to their synth line. I haven't played it, personally.

would you consider the FSB action semiweight synth?  A better compromise action for piano/organ switching than what they put on the MODX6?  Maybe not at this price point perhaps. It has to be better than what’s on the VR09, no? 
 

I liked the sound of the reface YC and its Leslie simulation considering the size and price of it. Good enough?  Depends on what you’re comparing it to and needing it for. I’d take it over the organ patches on stage pianos like CP, ES, PX, FP, etc. 

[ElmerJFudd]

$999 and $1499 retail.  Starting to show up at the online shops.  

[AnotherScott]

12 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

would you consider the FSB action semiweight synth?  A better compromise action for piano/organ switching than what they put on the MODX6?  Maybe not at this price point perhaps. It has to be better than what’s on the VR09, no? 

I haven't played it. Here's how Yamaha describes it on the PSR-SX900 page:

 

The implied comparison is to the earlier PSR models.

 

I think every Yamaha unweighted or semiweighted action I've ever played is better than VR09 action.

 

On a tangentially related note, I'm thinking about how this compares to the Casio CT-S500 as a lightweight board that covers all the basics. They both also happen to have speakers and run on batteries. The CK61 is obviously far more capable in a ton of ways (as it should be, for something that's 2.5+ x the price), but I hope the action is as nicely playable. (The Casio also still has a couple of its own advantages... the "drum machine" and other accompaniment functions, the keytar pegs.)

 

 

[pjd]

Product page is up at yamaha.co.jp (Yamaha Japan). Go to the Downloads tab for the CKs and you will find links to the manuals in Japanese and English. Have fun reading. I’m going to bed. 😀

 

I pwn an MODX and a CT-S1000V. Nothing to see here. Move along. 😀

 

It’s been a long day — pj

 

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-ck88-unverified-leakage/

 

Organs in Voice List are H, V, F, A, Y — exactly Reface YC. I own one of those, too. Good night and have a pleasant tomorrow. 😴

[AnotherScott]

jp.yamaha.com -- here's the link to the manual

 

https://jp.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/2/1547682/ck88_en_om_b0.pdf

[AnotherScott]

The RefaceYC organ only had one rotary effect, this has two (plus a third anything can be routed to), so it may be a step up from the RefaceYC in that regard. However the two organ-specific rotary effects are described exactly as on the original YC61 , when it likewise had two (before they added the third, improved one). That implies this doesn't have the better YC rotary, unless possibly they substituted it for the old "Rotary A" and left the verbiage as it had been, which would not be inconceivable (since on this model there is no need to describe it in such a way as to differentiate it from a previous version). So, fingers crossed. They again describe the two this way:

 

Also, just like the YC61/73/88, the drawbars send MIDI CC, but the buttons for CV and percussion only send sysex.

[CyberGene]

A positive change is the audio input can have effects and EQ applied.

[nadroj]

I get why they wouldn’t want the organ as good as the YC. It would cannibalise YC sales. Actually I don’t get it, I’d rather they put the best organ in just to make it good, but I don’t understand economics or marketing. However…

 

…If they’ve offered a performance keyboard with an organ section featuring drawbars and have not at least included their newest rotary emulation they are out of their damn minds. 
 

 

 

[Jose EB5AGV]

More info at: 02/2023 Yamaha Music Production Guide

 

and

 

CK61 CK88 Essential Knowledge Guide

[zephonic]

So I guess there isn’t anything here that the MODX doesn’t do, right?

 

[nadroj]

6 minutes ago, zephonic said:

So I guess there isn’t anything here that the MODX doesn’t do, right?

 

The MODX doesn’t do organ like the CK. 

 

I think they’ll sell a tonne of these. It’s like a VR-09 on steroids for a similar price. I don’t need the latest and greatest anymore. Hell I’d probably be interested in one if I wasn’t already in the process of getting something new. 

[Paul Woodward]

17 minutes ago, nadroj said:

The MODX doesn’t do organ like the CK. 

 

I think they’ll sell a tonne of these. It’s like a VR-09 on steroids for a similar price. I don’t need the latest and greatest anymore. Hell I’d probably be interested in one if I wasn’t already in the process of getting something new. 

I just bought a s/h VR09 but it was only £300 so I’m not comparing to the CK61. It was just a cheap board for rehearsals to replace an A800 and iPad. I already have the YC61 and a Korg Grandstage so nothing here I want, but interested to see if any ‘new’ features from this make it into the YC and, more importantly for me, if Yamaha release a new update for the YC to show that the YC/CP range are still the flagships of the stage keyboards.

On a different note, I actually prefer the VR09 action to the YC61. Much higher trigger point. Neither are great for piano work, but the VR is much faster to play.

True that Roland will need to release something new now if they want a share of the market other than the second hand market.

[CyberGene]

If there was a 73-key version, I would be interested and probably choose the CK73 over the Numa X Piano 73, mostly for the organ engine and drawbars, mono synths with portamento, as well as speakers and battery power. However now that I have the Numa, I really love it, especially the excellent external MIDI zone implementation compared to the Yamaha one which is still buried in the menus, so in a retrospective I’m glad I ended up with the Numa.

 

But the new CK61/88 is a nice offering from Yamaha 👍🏻

[Spider76]

Wow, didn't see this coming.

So in a few years Yamaha went from almost nothing in the "Nord" market segment, to 4 product lines (MX-CK-CP-YC) at various prices and degrees of quality, portability and complexity.

 

I don't see a real Nord Stage competitor there, but the Electro is starting to enjoy some serious company.

[Adan]

Hammond emulation sounds ok in that video.  Leslie sim might be a bit better than the Reface YC.  Hopefully chorus is reworked as they say, because the chorus on the Reface YC is unuseable.  

 

It's a budget board, so other than the usual reason that some people just like to complain, I don't know why people who aren't in the market for a budget board are complaining about it.  I'm seeing in it a nice alternative to the VR09, with the VR maybe a bit stronger on organ and the CK stronger on pianos.  The VR action was pretty good for organ but very challenging for piano.  So you might go VR or CK depending on whether you lean towards meat or potatoes.

 

I don't have a use for it right now, but could definitely see owning a CK if I needed a rehearsal board.

[Paul Woodward]

Agree, if my VR failed and at spotted one of these going cheap, I might be tempted but the YC61 is hardly heavy to carry around. Not worried at all about a new board, just want to know the YC is still being supported with improvements/updates 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

 

[Mr -G-]

I can't believe that these two instruments were what Matt Johnson was referring to in a recent video (something about filming something for Yamaha in Germany.?) 

[Kentkeys]

20 minutes ago, Mr -G- said:

I can't believe that these two instruments were what Matt Johnson was referring to in a recent video (something about filming something for Yamaha in Germany.?) 

 

… and he doesn’t appear in the video of Yamaha Artists promoting the new keyboards. So, there may still be something Montage-related in the pipeline (possibly to be launched at NAMM).

 

 

[Sunlight2]

32 minutes ago, Mr -G- said:

I can't believe that these two instruments were what Matt Johnson was referring to in a recent video (something about filming something for Yamaha in Germany.?) 

I remembered that and wondered the same thing...surely these can't be it?!

 

I'm surprised and baffled by these CK boards. Giggging musicians can pick up a far more powerful MODX+7 for not much more. And anyone who uses organ is going to shoot for a YC73. These just seem to fall between the two stools. 

[M_G]

1 hour ago, Mr -G- said:

I can't believe that these two instruments were what Matt Johnson was referring to in a recent video (something about filming something for Yamaha in Germany.?) 

 

I still believe there is a Montage+ in the pipeline..... maybe we wil see it at NAMM ???

[Adan]

The YC61 is twice the price of the CK61, that's the difference.  For most pro or semi-pro musicians, the YC61 makes a lot more sense.  I don't think the CK is marketed towards pro and semi-pro.  It's a bottom-up board.  E.G., a high school student playing in their first band and paying for it by working at Panetta.  

 

But let's say, not unusual for someone who hangs out on this forum, you have a Mojo 61 and a Yamaha CP88 -- two fairly bulky pieces of heavy weaponry, fine for taking to gigs but a real shlep for rehearsals.  Maybe you want something light and easy to bring to rehearsal., would you go for the YC61 even though you're not likely to gig with it?  Or do you save a $1K and get the CK for rehearsals?  So I think there's a narrow CK niche for the pro and semi-pro.