Tired of playing covers?

[HammondDave]

I am playing in a pretty good cover band right now in LA/Orange County. Mostly 60’s and 70’s rock. The key is to find a group of like-minded disciplined musicians about your same age who learn their parts at home and come to the gig and play the damn song. I rarely play the original leads unless its a signature one that the crowd recognizes. And its fun to perform. I don’t need the money so there is really no pressure at all. Low stress and high fun factor… just how I like it. 

[PianoMan51]

Tim. Great question. There’s a view that artists who want to change their art have to break one or two common conventions. 
 

If you want to change up your playing situation then maybe a first step is to figure out what you’re willing to discard from your current pattern. Here are a few things that might be “settled “ for you today. But maybe not, going forward…

 

- How much money you need to be paid, if any. (Would you be happy playing gigs for free if the music and hang are top notch?)

 

- Your keyboard and sounds setup. (Would your musicianship be challenged and possibly enhanced by doing whole gigs on B3, or melodica, or Wurly?)

-  How much rehearsing you are willing to do? For how many gigs?

 

- The skill levels of your bandmates. (Would you gain something by having bandmates who are NOT jazz-aware? Maybe blues or big-band or Americana or hip-hop aware?) 

 

- How far are you willing to travel?

 

Well, that’s enough for a start. 

[KuruPrionz]

6 hours ago, Dave Ferris said:

In fact the more people I meet, or reconnect with, the more I like my dog.

For the win!!!

 

Last night I went to a short practice session for a special event in Idaho. The BL is primarily vocalist and a solid, well above average strummer. We've done quite a few duo gigs and they always went well. I played in a band with him for 6 years, a great friend and the only thing that has driven me away is the volume is too high for no good reason. 

 

I've played in a couple of bands with the bassist but apparently without a drummer the groove is a random occurrence based on accidental circumstance.

 

I was asked to play a song and I turned to the sax player to tell him the key and the changes and he said "You don't need to tell me all that, I have no idea what you are talking about."

His timing wasn't great either and his concept of music did not align with mine. If I played high because he was playing low, he'd play high. If I then played low since he was now playing high, he would play low. I know saxophones are expensive but I was dying to smash it or stuff it with tennis balls or something. 

 

I'm thinking I'll take a pass on this one, if I was born to be a mass murderer it would have happened a long time ago. 

And yes, I'm a guitarist. I will note that there is a great deal of talent here in Keyboard Corner and I can only wonder how y'all manage to end up in bands with substandard guitarists. Maybe get choosy?

[El Lobo]

20 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

I was asked to play a song and I turned to the sax player to tell him the key and the changes and he said "You don't need to tell me all that, I have no idea what you are talking about."

Didn't we just have this conversation? Was it in the Nashville Numbers thread?

"It goes sharp 5 to the 5." Blank look.

 

Learn to work the saxophone

And I'll play just what I feel

[KuruPrionz]

3 minutes ago, El Lobo said:

Didn't we just have this conversation? Was it in the Nashville Numbers thread?

"It goes sharp 5 to the 5." Blank look.

 

Learn to work the saxophone

And I'll play just what I feel

He did have a good ear, all it meant was that he had to wait a while before starting in since he had no idea what was going to happen. 

I was fine with that, I would have been fine with him putting the saxophone away and going home. That said, he was a fine singer as well - I gotta give him that.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Here's my story its sad and true.

About a band that I once knew.

We had an audience. We got around.

Till the drummers originals hit the ground.

 

LEFT, LEFT, BUMBA HADY HADY.. I LEFT LEFT

BUMBA HADY HADY.. I LEFT 

 

My priority was originals back in the day so my first decent band was an originals band and I loved it especially as I wrote a lot of songs.

 

Next band also originals but as i aged the bands i joined were cover bands as once your age group started getting married that range of punters stops coming to gigs. So you didnt offer the pubs a ready customer base.

 

So from then I was joining cover bands for the cover pubs who supplied their own customers. Hey you gotta gig even if you cant perform your originals.

 

Ever since those early days Ive wanted to do originals again until at 61 / 62 years of age I would of got my chance but instead I quit because it was totally wrong for my band. What were they thinking.

 

This due to a stealthy but not unexpected takeover by the drummer the business manager of band. (I was music director).

 

Who after writing 30 songs in 30 weeks during lockdown as a novice writer and singer presented us with a festival gig (local family festival not specialised festival) but under the onus to learn 5 of his original songs and 1 from the guitarist to slot into a 12 song bracket. (With less than a month to perfect them). I QUIT.

 

I was given the chance to introduce my songs too but ive hesitated previously mentioning my songs as my songs didnt suit this band or the musos really.

 

Needless to say the drummers songs were "?" and he wanted to sing lead on all them (he is only a learner backup singer). The guitarist song was fine & his singing ok.

 

Previous on the formation of this band from the remains of a previous band (which i took over lead vocals) I had offered the drummer and guitarist to sing lead songs too. Although Ive been a lead singer all my life I can't sing all night now due to my dicky lungs so I suggested the 2 other guys sing too. But I created a non singer monster who enjoys the new limelight this offered.

 

We had been an RSL (club) band and now the 75 year old drummer was pushing us down the 1950s blues and roots road as he is an American Xpat. Fine with that occasionally but what non muso Aussie punters in an RSL club even know what American roots is. Especially as Its so ill defined anyway. 

 

I have nothing against playing a bit of blues as I was once an MC for a big Blues and Rockabilly festival (in Narooma for those Aussies) so versed enough in blues. So even his covers he offered up are certainly not Aussie known. Maybe if he could sing professionally I could of coped better.

 

Sometimes you simply cant present originals into any or every type of band. He really was trying to change the band totally to his format so I quit even though with my health I probably will not be able to join another band even though Im only 63.

 

I was really cutting my head off here but i just couldnt play a night of these repetitive songs. I hear they have 30 originals now but not sure all in their repertoire yet but have not played anymore RSL clubs.

 

The newly joined bass player at the time quit not long after that festival gig saying to me he was being lied to & " Your departure crippled the band musically and dramatically shortened the repertoire " so I was not the only one pissed with the drummer. Then they were a 2 piece.

 

So originals are hard to find gigs for unless you are young musos with a following. We were an old fart RSL band and he was pushing us down a "what he wanted" festival blues, roots and originals avenue away from known covers. This would push us out of RSL clubs the mainstay of what we were.

 

Yeah another of my long tomes. Sorry

 

Copies of this speach can be obtained from the foyer.

 

 

[stoken6]

7 hours ago, Dave Ferris said:

I could throw out some pretty big names in conversations I've been privy too, both private and in a small group of people, where the player was ranting about how their gig with a big name pop artist was highly messing them up when they had to go back and really play on a Trio or Quartet gig.. Of course you'll NEVER hear that publicly, they'd lose their gig and ruin their reputation.

Darryl Jones admitted (publicly) his Stones gig had ruined his fusion chops. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Outkaster]

6 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Darryl Jones admitted (publicly) his Stones gig had ruined his fusion chops. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

Mike that's on him though.  If you play multiple genres  you have to live in those worlds. He is still in the band so it can't be that bad?  The Stones didn't do that, he did that. I love when musicians want to pass around the blame game.

[ProfD]

After about 2 years of playing with the Rolling Stones, Darryl Jones made more money with them than all of the years combined he spent playing Jazz.  He sold his Fusion chops a long time ago.🤣😎

[Bobbo Fett]

.......and Mick and Keef don't care......

[synthizen2]

I've certainly been playing rock covers for ages now, and I also used to be involved in a local Jazz ensemble with workmates, back when my jazz chops were in much better shape (it's gone sideways lately, haven't kept up my jazz chops, it will require a couple months of re-study and practice to get back there).

 

So, while I'm still doing lots of rock and country covers, at least I'm not in a "tribute" band. Both my bands do covers, but a good number of them are unusual ones (not the usual Mustang Sally, Gimme 3 Steps, etc.) that make it interesting and fun for us, but not super-obscure tunes that nobody ever heard before. This element of what I do makes it fun enough (and $$ enough) to continue doing it.

[D. Gauss]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

After about 2 years of playing with the Rolling Stones, Darryl Jones made more money with them than all of the years combined he spent playing Jazz.  He sold his Fusion chops a long time ago.🤣😎

So true.  15 or 16 years ago, a good friend of mine and great NYC sax player was up for the Stones touring gig. He wouldn't even be the main solo sax guy, just part of the horn section. (Can't remember if they had Bobby Keyes back with them then or not).  Long story short, in the end, my friend didn't get the gig but... and remember, this is 15 years ago dollars, it paid 10k week salary. plus, the stones (at least at that time), put all the band members in the same 5 star hotels that mick & Keef were in. Not too shabby since they have 3 or 4 days between each show when on tour.   

[stoken6]

5 hours ago, Outkaster said:

Mike that's on him though.  If you play multiple genres  you have to live in those worlds. He is still in the band so it can't be that bad?  The Stones didn't do that, he did that. I love when musicians want to pass around the blame game.

Agreed - and I'm not saying he regrets his move, or is blaming anyone. It's simply a consequence of his career choice.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Outkaster]

16 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Agreed - and I'm not saying he regrets his move, or is blaming anyone. It's simply a consequence of his career choice.

 

Cheers, Mike.

No I understand you weren't.  It's amazing someone would say that at the level he is.

[niacin]

I hit this wall a while back, just as you described.  It took a while to develop the discipline to say no.  But I've discovered a couple of variations on the covers band thing which provide a level of satisfaction and keep me playing gigs:

 

The tribute band - play covers I love playing.  For me that's stuff I grew up with that has keys built around the Hammond. So I play with a Santana band and we do shared bill Latin music nights, we're playing covers but jam things out and mix it up and don't stress about any but the most essential riffs and cues, no body cares if I play Rolie's solo note for note. And a Pink Floyd band, which is very diffrerent, plays only occasionally, but the standard of musicianship is outstanding and everyone loves the music and is keen to get the details right, but with Floyd I enjoy the challenge of nailing the sounds and the lines and other aspects of doing pop covers that I used to enjoy, except that it was for songs that I had little love for, played to a weddings/parties/anything audience that didn't care if I nailed it or winged it or dialed it in.

 

Pop covers in another style - the Postmodern Jukebox/Scary Pockets thing.

 

YMMV

 

 

[EricBarker]

I actually enjoy covers more than I should. But the holy grail for me is playing a mix of covers and originals, and being able to do covers MY OWN GODS-DAMNED WAY! I love arranging, and I often see faces light up when they experience a cover completely out of context. Like, my wife and I have a duo (soon to be a trio with drummer) that does "Sweet Dreams" as a 1920s Boogie-Woogie, and the crowd eats it up! Far more than when I used to play it straight-up New Wave like the original. 

I'm in the camp that doesn't think most of the audience cares about being exactly like the record. If not, then why do teenagers swoon at someone with a solo acoustic guitar playing the latest big radio-pop hit?! Musicians care about being exact. Tribute bands live and die by it. But the evidence is just to the contrary. Do it exactly like the record, and congratulations, you're no different than 90% of the other cover bands out there that no one remembers. Make it your own, and you'll get people talking, and they'll seek you out. You're up there to entertain, so use whatever you've got. Sink your teeth into it, and work the crowd. I'm not falling into the dick-sizing contest of trying to obtain objective perfection of studio-matched performance. That's for musicians, and musicians are the worst audience ever.

[D. Gauss]

3 hours ago, EricBarker said:

 musicians are the worst audience ever.

indeed!

[Tom Williams]

13 hours ago, niacin said:

Pop covers in another style - the Postmodern Jukebox/Scary Pockets thing.

Amen to that!

 

Strangely, we do some covers of covers -- e.g., Blues Beatles, Bonnie Raitt's '77 cover of Runaway....

 

I've inflicted a couple of my own approaches to Tulsa Time and Stepping Stone, with pretty good crowd acceptance.

[Montunoman 2]

Sometimes I think some musicians put way too much pressure on themselves to cover parts note for note and match the sounds. A lot of times you see the original artists in concert and they totally change things up. I say, play tunes people know and love but put your own  stamp on it. If played well, with a good feel, it will probably go over well. 

 

 

[Montunoman 2]

Tim, if your jazz trio can get $3000 for private parties, why not just do that?

 

Also, I know a jazzer that can DJ too. His combo does the "cooktail"/ dinner set and then he DJs the dance. It makes for a long night but he makes some good money at it. 

[cassdad]

As I’ve repeatedly stated to my fellow “musicians” (3-chord self-taught garage band players) - If they want to hear “the record” - get a DJ or put a dollar in the juke box.  I think trying to sound EXACTLY like the record is a fool’s errand.  Live music should be so much more than that.  Just my opinion.

[timwat]

20 hours ago, Montunoman 2 said:

Tim, if your jazz trio can get $3000 for private parties, why not just do that?

 

Also, I know a jazzer that can DJ too. His combo does the "cooktail"/ dinner set and then he DJs the dance. It makes for a long night but he makes some good money at it. 

 

Well, if EVERY client paid $3K to listen to me play trio, I'd be so busy I wouldn't have time to post on the forum.

 

So I politely turn down most of those $3K gigs because this forum would be so empty without me, to quote Eminem. 

 

 

[drawback]

I've seen way too many cover bands nail every nuance of the music only to be undermined by the physical limitations of vocal cords. To me, that is the main reason why most cover bands should consider that they might as well be impressionists rather than impersonators.

[KuruPrionz]

16 minutes ago, drawback said:

I've seen way too many cover bands nail every nuance of the music only to be undermined by the physical limitations of vocal cords. To me, that is the main reason why most cover bands should consider that they might as well be impressionists rather than impersonators.

Truth, how you gonna cover Johnny Cash and Journey with the same vocalist?

I was in a Motown Cover band that had no female vocalist, only males. So we only did about half of the Motown covers we should have been doing. No Supremes, no Martha and the Vandellas, etc. And I was also in a country top 40 band that had a male and a female lead singer so we did a much broader range of covers. Of course, they were married except he thought they were maybe kinda married. That didn't explode until shortly after I left the band (and no, I had nothing to do with it at all!!!). 

 

I've been in a couple of long standing cover bands where the lead singer just sang the songs the way they sang the songs. In one of those bands, I sang some of the songs too but again, OUR version and not a slavishly meticulous version of the original tune. Who covers Warren Zevon tunes anyway? 😇

[MathOfInsects]

The pandy did me in too. Cover gigs have to have life-changing money for me to take them now, unless the hang is otherwise good. Life is short; I think a lot of us are feeling that we need to feel we're adding value, and/or vice versa, to burn time on something. 

[drawback]

19 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

Truth, how you gonna cover Johnny Cash and Journey with the same vocalist?

Or someone may try as they might to sound like the original singer – and while the instruments are near perfect – the reality is professional karaoke. Better to put your own spin on it.

[TommyRude]

57 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

Truth, how you gonna cover Johnny Cash and Journey with the same vocalist?

Easy.. get the gravelly Johnny Cash singer, and have him/her sing the Journey songs 2 octaves down.

[Stokely]

I've definitely noticed a bit of shift in our area--and this is Florida, skews older!--as to what is an "oldie".    If we analyzed the average age of people dancing at places we play, it has to be 50-60.  And that's mainly just due to the fact that those are the people interested in live music around here.  Just one example, I pushed to do, and sing, the song Don't Change by INXS...fun, easy high energy but the band thought it was too obscure.   Well, people have gone crazy for it, because what used to be "the songs people grew up with" have changed as the people have gotten older.  I'd love to be trying more stuff like you are doing, Jeffinpghpa.   Our singer started that band basically as a 70s AM themed band (was even considering a themed attire, glad to say that went away quickly) so it's hard to get her to move into the "future".   

For me, getting better at singing is what really gets me motivated.  I've made great strides.  Unfortunately I'll never belt high notes like Steve Walsh or Steve Perry or any of those other #&$^% tenors, being a baritone, but it's still fun as hell.   We do a great job on 4 part harmony on Eagles tunes I must say, and it's because we bust our ass working on vocals.

[JohnH]

I am still ok with playing covers. But if we have to rehearse La Grange or Jenny Jenny, All Right Now or any other of these burn out songs we have a problem. I am going to start making sure I don't get pulled into rehearsals of stuff like that. It's happened recently. Ridiculous. We've all paid our dues and that's an insult. 

[Outkaster]

On 8/7/2022 at 4:12 AM, EricBarker said:

I actually enjoy covers more than I should. But the holy grail for me is playing a mix of covers and originals, and being able to do covers MY OWN GODS-DAMNED WAY! I love arranging, and I often see faces light up when they experience a cover completely out of context. Like, my wife and I have a duo (soon to be a trio with drummer) that does "Sweet Dreams" as a 1920s Boogie-Woogie, and the crowd eats it up! Far more than when I used to play it straight-up New Wave like the original. 

I'm in the camp that doesn't think most of the audience cares about being exactly like the record. If not, then why do teenagers swoon at someone with a solo acoustic guitar playing the latest big radio-pop hit?! Musicians care about being exact. Tribute bands live and die by it. But the evidence is just to the contrary. Do it exactly like the record, and congratulations, you're no different than 90% of the other cover bands out there that no one remembers. Make it your own, and you'll get people talking, and they'll seek you out. You're up there to entertain, so use whatever you've got. Sink your teeth into it, and work the crowd. I'm not falling into the dick-sizing contest of trying to obtain objective perfection of studio-matched performance. That's for musicians, and musicians are the worst audience ever.

The danger in that is that it makes musicians and bands don't even play the right progressions as they don't feel the need to.  That's just lazy.  Covers can teach people a lot more. Probably is there are more shitty covers than good ones.