Pet Peeve: Keyboard stands

[RandyFF]

Ha!  Was in a rush and my other keyboards stands were being used.  I wheeled my Casio 61 note board to the jam in my granny cart (you know, those rolling wire baskets grannies use for laundry and groceries), and then used it as a keyboard stand!  Granted, I had no knee room and had to be careful about it rolling away (!), but still, got the job done for a short jam!  It actually lent some street cred, I was playing during a Humanity Showers homeless weekly event.

 

I’ve used X stands for years, I have a double braced one with a 2d tier.  Really don’t like it much: knees bump easily and limited floor room, and doesn’t go low enough.  Have used them for construction stands often, like for paint drying or sanding work.

 

I have a Z stand as well, considerable upgrade, though you do have to pay attention that the entire rig doesn’t fall backwards- but most here on this thread know that all too well.  I’ve got the On-Stage with a second tier.  It also limits the width of your knees/feet to 19 1/2” / 50cm wide which is not to liking!

 

 

$139 for the Gator Frameworks?!!!!!  Got inflation shock as I checked out the K&M 18950 for $309!  $237 for the K&M 18880 is more like it, looks very sturdy and collapsible, readily amenable to 2d/3d tiers and microphone/stand plug-ins.

 

Didn’t see if the Gator FW accepts 2d/3d shelves.

 

 

I’ve rarely worried about absolute stability, I’m not playing live much where there’s all manner of stages to contend with.  I’m looking more for a studio kind of setup where it’s portable, but first and foremost its capable of getting each keyboard exactly where you want it.

 

The lowest stage is the easiest- getting it to preferred height is usually matter-of-fact.  But it’s the 2d stage, where you’re trying to get it at exactly as close and needed and at the desirable angle, that’s the tricky part!

 

 

[bjosko]

I have several K&M stands, and 18950 is my favorite, only wished they could make it possible to add arms for a third keyboard on it.

 I will however recommend a transport bag for it (actually I will receive one today if my order from Thomann show up), since it have many small pieces that can rattle off under transportation ( mostly the small adjustable feets). Fast and easy to set up/tear down, and practical for me since it is possible to slide the upper arms more backward and make room for deeper keyboards at the bottom level.

Recently i switched a Spider Pro for another 18950 for home use, as the SP was a bit to wobbly for me, and as it use more floor space in depth , not ideal for home use. Another issue I got with the Spider when I used it for gigs was that the centerblock always conflicted with some of the Jack connection on the backside of my keyboards - and it is heavy. I also have the K&M 18880. It is lightweight and possible to add extensions for a 3 board setup, but again, I didn’t find it so transport friendly because of all the loose parts that might fell off, especially if you want to add extra stackers on it.

[AnotherScott]

18 minutes ago, bjosko said:

I also have the K&M 18880. It is lightweight and possible to add extensions for a 3 board setup, but again, I didn’t find it so transport friendly because of all the loose parts that might fell off, especially if you want to add extra stackers on it.

I wonder why you're having problems with loose parts, it's never been an issue for me. Nothing ever has to be removed, it moves in one piece. You might have to loosen something to move it and tighten it when it's in position, but no piece has to actually come off (or left in a loose position), which to me means you have to work pretty hard to lose something.

[Mighty Motif Max]

36 minutes ago, bjosko said:

I have several K&M stands, and 18950 is my favorite, only wished they could make it possible to add arms for a third keyboard on it.

 I will however recommend a transport bag for it (actually I will receive one today if my order from Thomann show up), since it have many small pieces that can rattle off under transportation ( mostly the small adjustable feets)...

I own the bag, but haven't used it more than maybe 3-4 times since getting the 18950 in 2020. I haven't had any of the feet come off thus far...or anything else for that matter. If I did, yeah, I'd probably use the bag, but for now it's just more space being taken up. The bag is nice though (the official K&M one anyways).

[bjosko]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

I wonder why you're having problems with loose parts, it's never been an issue for me. Nothing ever has to be removed, it moves in one piece. You might have to loosen something to move it and tighten it when it's in position, but no piece has to actually come off (or left in a loose position), which to me means you have to work pretty hard to lose something.

Well, I guess you do not use the horizontal support than ? I have always used it, and therefore the stands also have been deassambled. Not sure if it need to be there, I just want to avoid the X-stand failure.

Regarding loose parts, we are using a trailer when transporting to/from gigs, and my keyboard stand will always be placed somewhere in between something where it fit, so it can get some ruff handling and shaky transport.

[bjosko]

BTW, my pet prefer the Hammond 😁

 

 

[nursers]

On my podcast it's one of the most common themes that comes up, with particular love for the X-Stand  

[ElmerJFudd]

What’s a Z stand look like collapsed?  

[bjosko]

A horizontal I

[TJ Cornish]

I used X stands for a long time but about 7 years ago switched to the On Stage two-tier Z stand. Amazing adjustability, lots of foot room, and rock solid on both tiers. The down side is if you fully disassemble, it comes apart into 7 pieces. The up side is that I can fit the entire stand into a 1/4 pack road case I sometimes use for a bunch of other stuff on larger multi-day gigs. You can partially take it apart if you don’t need it all the way down - that involves removing 4 threaded hand wheels to take off the lower and upper cross brace. At this level it takes up about the same amount of space as an X stand.

 

I have a full-size cargo van as my daily driver, so usually the Z stand gets set in fully assembled.

[Stokely]

I also used an Onstage Z, two tiers, for years.   You either have to keep it together, which means it's kind of awkward and doesn't fold well, or you have to take the top tiers off.   No way I'd completely disassemble.  As with my K&M omega pro (which I use for single-keyboard gigs), wrapping with a bungie helps with the swinging legs/arms as you carry.

The Onstage Z is pretty heavy as well, but so is my spider pro.   The Z is very sturdy and for you tall players it gets tall without sacrificing stability (unlike an X).  You can also use the Onstage mic adapter with it, though you can use that with any stand with an open tube, including x stands.

Speaking of K&M, I got that Omega stand at Thomann.  My buddy recently got the red Spider pro there.   Even with shipping it was much cheaper than anywhere in the states.  

[CowboyNQ]

6 hours ago, bjosko said:

Well, I guess you do not use the horizontal support than ? I have always used it, and therefore the stands also have been deassambled. Not sure if it need to be there, I just want to avoid the X-stand failure.

Regarding loose parts, we are using a trailer when transporting to/from gigs, and my keyboard stand will always be placed somewhere in between something where it fit, so it can get some ruff handling and shaky transport.

I think I can help you here.  I too have driven my K&M 18880 all over the place in a trailer.  I’m estimating it’s done 100,000 miles give or take.

 

I use the horizontal support you mention but I don’t believe it adds any structural rigidity.  I think it’s just a spacer to help you set the legs up perpendicular to the floor.  You don’t need to disassemble this bar, you can just loosen the nut that holds it in place, then rotate down parallel to one leg, then tighten the nut again.

 

As far as the stand shaking itself to bits - hasn’t  happened yet.  On one particularly long and bumpy journey a nut annoyingly worked itself loose, but that was partially my fault for not tightening sufficiently prior to transport.  And that was a loooooonnnnnnng journey.

 

My stand sure doesn’t look as pretty as it used to but it’s straight as an arrow and still structurally sound.

[synthizen2]

I think Gibraltar had the right idea, but I don't like any of their pre-assembled configurations for keyboards. If you want to go Gibraltar, but don't like their popular configurations (like the infamous "Key Tree" design, which gets in the way of your pedals way worse than an Apex Column Stand or an X-Stand)... then you have to know which type of stand you want to assemble, and which parts you'll need for it.

 

But, similar to popular X and Z stands the world over... all of these stands have a plethora of small parts, nuts, bolts, and flanges... that nearly always come loose or come off, and get lost.

 

Which is why I really like my long-out-of-production OnStage Aluminum 2-Tier Non-Adjustable Z-Stand. Very few parts to get lost. Most of the stand is simply welded together. And being aluminum, weighs in at about 14 lbs. No wobble, no bounce.

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

This Z shown collapsed briefly in video below.  
 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

23 minutes ago, CowboyNQ said:

I use the horizontal support you mention but I don’t believe it adds any structural rigidity.  I think it’s just a spacer to help you set the legs up perpendicular to the floor.  You don’t need to disassemble this bar, you can just loosen the nut that holds it in place, then rotate down parallel to one leg, then tighten the nut again.

Right. 

 

But although in fact I usually don't bother with that bar, I think it can actual add some stability, especially if you're using the stackers. Maybe it depends on the boards you're using, and how high you're placing the stackers.

[re Pete]

17 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Ding ding ding 🛎!
 

yes, it’s a very good stand.  I’d like it to go one notch lower and for the main section of it to collapse down.  if they could make the pieces snap together and fit in a shoulder bag it would be awesome.   

Agree. I bought a K&M tabletop stand and it's solid but could fold better and heavy.

 

Bought a used Omega and thought has anyone cut the main beam in half and reinforce it with a sleeve with pins or locking reinforced hinge? 

It would seem to be easier to transport no?

As for X stands, the one I used has been rock solid. It came with a metal bar reinforcement, forget the brand, and I added another. Easy to set up, but no good for organ pedals obviously.

[TommyRude]

15 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

For any of you Philly or Delaware old farts who might remember the legendary Beru Revue and/or Kenn Kweder...  you want the Buzz Barkley (r.i.p.) shopping cart stand. Rolls on and off stage, solid as a rock.

 

Does the shopping cart fold flat?

[DJkeys]

21 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

My most common recommendation... K&M 18880 with a 18881 and/or 18882 stacker for additional tier(s). Super light, super easy/fast to set up and break down, lets you set up the boards almost any way you could want. (The 18881 can be flipped backwards if you want it to function more the way the Invisible did.)

I can tell you from experience that Scott is right, this is the best stand I have ever owned and only weighs about 7 pounds. Super solid without the crossboar.  It is so easy to move in a single piece once it is setup to your liking.  18880 and 18881 was about $295 at Amazon. Expensive, but worth every penny.  

[CowboyNQ]

4 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Right. 

 

But although in fact I usually don't bother with that bar, I think it can actual add some stability, especially if you're using the stackers. Maybe it depends on the boards you're using, and how high you're placing the stackers.

Hey Scott,

 

Yeah maybe if you use a third tier, dunno.  But I stand my 18880 at max height with a second tier and it makes no noticeable difference in my experience.  I use it anyway as my assumption as stated earlier is it’s more of an “optimum spacer”.  

 

Bottom line - you don’t have to disassemble it and if my little 5 second solution is too bothersome for OP, I question whether it’s needed at all.

[D. Gauss]

5 hours ago, TommyRude said:

Does the shopping cart fold flat?

nah, you just leave it in the parking lot. 😉

[AUSSIEKEYS]

33 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

nah, you just leave it in the parking lot. 😉

And fight crime with it if in Australia.

 

Aussie homeless man stops terrorattack with shopping cart.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/homeless-hero-who-helped-stop-melbourne-terror-attack-shopping-cart-gets-1210811

[vonnor]

On 7/24/2022 at 3:42 PM, o0Ampy0o said:

 

There is an opportunity in there that could lead you to $$$$. Keep peeves for pets at your own risk. Cats are lovable and cute but everything is on their terms. Dogs just love you no matter what however I recommend you find smart ones. Nothing worse than a dumb dog no matter how much they love you regardless except maybe one of your pet keyboard stand peeves. 

 

Like keyboard players in FB "Cover Band Central" memes, no love for the vociferous flying dogs...  

 

Pepper is peeved.

 

~ vonnor

[vonnor]

For me it how sturdy and motionless the stand is that's most important. I have always put that above collapsibility or portability. By far the most sturdy and motionless stand is the ones I built from Ultimate Support Tubes and T-connectors hoarded over the years. Those things can hold two (or three) keyboards plus my 235lbs and not bounce, move back-and-forth, or side-to-side more than a cm. Only drawback is you can't disassemble it, but it fits perfectly laying down in back of my SUV.

 

I have tried Invisible, but with the heavier keyboards and playing standing up, I find the bounce to be very annoying.

 

I'm currently using a somewhat modified Apex column stand that has steel rods running from under the lower tier bars down to the ends of the legs. Without those, the bounce would be a deal-breaker for me. Also has a pedalboard that's up on tall rubber feet and straddles the legs. It's much better for break-down and transport.

 

~ vonnor

[16251]

1 hour ago, vonnor said:

For me it how sturdy and motionless the stand is that's most important. I have always put that above collapsibility or portability. By far the most sturdy and motionless stand is the ones I built from Ultimate Support Tubes and T-connectors hoarded over the years. Those things can hold two (or three) keyboards plus my 235lbs and not bounce, move back-and-forth, or side-to-side more than a cm. Only drawback is you can't disassemble it, but it fits perfectly laying down in back of my SUV.

 

I have tried Invisible, but with the heavier keyboards and playing standing up, I find the bounce to be very annoying.

 

I'm currently using a somewhat modified Apex column stand that has steel rods running from under the lower tier bars down to the ends of the legs. Without those, the bounce would be a deal-breaker for me. Also has a pedalboard that's up on tall rubber feet and straddles the legs. It's much better for break-down and transport.

 

~ vonnor

Ultimate Support Tubes and T-connectors - that's the ticket.

[o0Ampy0o]

6 hours ago, vonnor said:

Like keyboard players in FB "Cover Band Central" memes, no love for the vociferous flying dogs...  

 

Pepper is peeved.

 

~ vonnor

 

Vociferous Flying Dogs good name for a few things. Sits well with the end credits of a film.

[ProfD]

KBs have lost a considerable amount of weight over the years. 

 

Any decent KB stand sold in a music store should be able to hold 2 or 3 KBs weighing less than 150 lbs total.

 

From A-frame stands back in the day to Apex columns and double-braced X stands, I've never had a KB stand collapse with a multi-KB rig. 😎

[Stokely]

Well, the thin Stay (copy) that I tried out listed a pretty small weight limit....enough to make me nervous about my Forte and another keyboard being on it at least.   It was far less than K&M lists for the Spider pro tiers, so that made me keep using the Spider pro.

I had my Deltex (cheap version of the Apex) tip over backward/sideways....if you get it at just the right angle to the feet, it could go pretty easily.  Especially if you play frat circuit gigs with some really bad stages    I've started bringing a cool-looking indoor outdoor rug to gigs, keeps pedals in place, helps with the feet and helps a bit with uneven stages.

 

[TJ Cornish]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

KBs have lost a considerable amount of weight over the years. 

 

Any decent KB stand sold in a music store should be able to hold 2 or 3 KBs weighing less than 150 lbs total.

 

From A-frame stands back in the day to Apex columns and double-braced X stands, I've never had a KB stand collapse with a multi-KB rig. 😎

 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

Well, the thin Stay (copy) that I tried out listed a pretty small weight limit....enough to make me nervous about my Forte and another keyboard

 

Mr Stokley you are correct. I have 2 of the 2 tier Stay Slims and they are rated at 20kg maximum but sometimes stated at 10kg each tier but other times 20kg overal as the single tier Slim is I think rated as 20kg max.

 

So one tier 20kg or 10kg? (My personal feeling its the rating of the legs not the arms hence you can buy a single tier Slim and it still has a 20kg rating if i remember rightly years ago).

 

There is a smaller Stay Compact which is simply a shorter Slim with the top tier area cut off. Should have same rating as a single tier Slim. It is crazy smaller and lighter again.

 

Never the less I used a 11.5kg Casio PX330 on my Slim without any suggestion of being overloaded on one tier. And when using both tiers an 8kg Alesis QS6.1 on top. It handled it admirably.

 

There is bounce just like the Apex i used in the 80s but no more than an Apex.

 

Regarding whether your offered one is a copy. It may not be. Mine was marketed/distributed by a different brand name but built by Stay. 

 

Edit: I remember though the Slim is marketed as a 61 note stand by Stay (not an 88note that I use on it). Id personally limit the weight of my 88 due to length over hang bounce) im not advocating anyone risk anything just offering my experience as Stay advocates 61 note keyboards.

 

This is the Slim not the larger Tower (which is a sizewise direct competitor to an Apex type stand) and i think is marketed at 76 note keyboards.

 

My 2 tier Slim is ultra lightweight and ultra small when packed away. I consider it a quality piece of work and clever size reducing design. But if needed for larger keyboards Id look at the bigger Stay Tower.