Something new and interesting from Crumar!!!

[ElmerJFudd]

I don’t think Crumar/GSi use extensive marketing research.  They build what they are passionate about and find a like-minded audience.  If it’s successful, great.   If not, they move on.  
 

For a small shop, the Gemini hardware was a major undertaking and they can create a lot of designs with their  sample libraries and software modeling efforts under the hood.  
 

We’ll have to wait and see what makes Seventeen different from Seven.  Possibly a better price point with a less knobby interface?   
 

 

[kenheeter]

You don't see many Italian sportscars on the road either.  Plenty of Fords and Chevys.  I own three Nords, a Yamaha and currently two Crumars.  I have gigged with all of them for years and nothing comes closer to playing a real Rhodes than the Seven, not to mention the beautiful new acoustic pianos,  also nothing is more satisfying to play in a Hammond clone than my Mojo 61.  Except, of course, my B3/Leslie.  These instruments are not for everyone but those who try them tend to stick with them.  I am often surprised by what Guido and Andrea come up with but I have never been disappointed. I'm personally glad to have so many choices. I'm excited to see what the new Seventeen offers, but if it's not something I want then I will pass. Chances are good it will be something I want.

[Delaware Dave]

This is why I found the Gemini module perfect more my needs. It contains Guido's latest improvements in his Vb3ii offering (same organ/leslie that is in the Mojo), Rhodes, Wurli, Clav (with all filter and pickup settings), his two newest acoustic pianos  (Yamaha C5 and Steinway D-274), VA synth, brass, modeled trumpet, saxophones, strings, DX7, CP 70/80, Vox, Farfisa, flutes, the list is all encompassing.  All you need to supply is the physical controllers of your choice.  Of everything he offers I would say that the Gemini is an incredible value for what you get soundwise.  It's having all the latest and greatest instrument sounds in one box and you supply the controllers that you want to use so two lightweight controllers, one using hammer action and one using synth action and practically all your bases are covered. If you later want to change controllers the sounds are portable and just move to the next set of controllers.

[HammondDave]

3 hours ago, jeffinpghpa said:

I never see Crumar boards on the bandstand when I see live music out.   I see Nord Electros all the time every weekend.

 

I also see budget products every weekend like VR-09, MODX, etc. with plastic builds and less expensive components and keybeds.

 

This forum is where I see most of the Crumar owners/users and less so elsewhere other than their Facebook groups.   And that makes sense because the participants here know their ins and outs of the Hammond organ and Rhodes sounds are that they are trying to get.

 

Crumar could offer a product that a lot more people would buy by building the equivalents of Nord Electros with their soundset, such as a 73 key semi weighted piano/EP/organ all in one that would, as I believe, have a much more convincing sounset than the Nord (and Roland VR-09/730) competitors and they could sell it well below the $3,000 price tag for an Electro 6D 73 with the internals of the Mojo 61.  I think a lot more people would explore Crumar and buy this, if Crumar really wanted to grow into a size where they are more substantial than a 2-person company.

 

I don't think that's their direction and I think of these products as small batch productions that is aimed at a pretty narrow audience of buyers.

 

The only Crumar product that has ever given me much interest is a GSI product - Gemini modules.  Great product there, although no longer for me as I increase my productivity with Mainstage and software.

 

 

Several Italian companies have produced products that may fit the bill for your needs…. Especially if you are using MainStage and other software instruments.  Look at DelawareDave’s comments about the Gemini (above). I gig with a Crumar Mojo 61 and my lower manual controls my software instruments that are loaded into my iPad. Other than not having pitch/mod wheels (which would make it almost perfect for me), I feel very comfortable playing this rig and I get an amazing amount of sounds (including the best B3 sound IMHO) with this rig. If I wanted to play a hammer action keyboard, I could do the same with my Numa Piano X. 
 

The problem that many have is breaking away from the giants. Nord makes excellent keyboards, but they come with a hefty price.  Everyone knows my opinion of Hammond/Suzuki so I won’t pontificate about that here.  Same with Yamaha, Casio, etc.  But for some reason, many people diss the Italian companies.  All I can say is that over the past 8+ years of playing Italian clones, I have had only one technical problem… and that “2 person company”  immediately helped me solve it!. I doubt I would receive the same response from Yamaha for an out of warranty keyboard. (And remember that other “2 person company”… called “Apple’”)

 

You are probably right… Crumar may be be wise to develop a single keyboard that would take on what Nord has to offer. However, we don’t know enough about this product to make such judgements… we only heard one piano sample.  Look at all those buttons on the faceplate.  Do we really believe this is only a piano?  Or maybe it’s a product aimed to compete with another expensive product: Vintage Vibe. Imagine if this lists for something like $1200…. You would be a fool not to consider it.

[funkyhammond]

I have to admit, I have been a bit scared off by some of the reliability comments over the years. Have things improved? Have some people still had reliability issues when gigging with Crumar products built in, say, the last 5 years? And is it really a reliability issue or is it more that the odd time that something does come up, it's more of a hassle and expense to deal with because of having to maybe ship it to some regional repair place?

 

 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, HammondDave said:

we only heard one piano sample.  Look at all those buttons on the faceplate.  Do we really believe this is only a piano? 

Picking up from my previous post, my guess is that those 8 buttons are the same as the 8 buttons on the Seven.

[ElmerJFudd]

21 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Picking up from my previous post, my guess is that those 8 buttons are the same as the 8 buttons on the Seven.

And an EP

 

 

[AnotherScott]

15 hours ago, Mark Schmieder said:

Actually, I think I had looked into this many years ago, and gave up on it ever coming out, but there were two other manufacturers who also planned to release physical modeling based digital keyboards, one of whom was going to embed Pianoteq as I recall (but I don't think that was Crumar).

Crumar did have one, though. The default installed piano on this was Pianoteq...

 

https://www.crumar.it/?a=showproduct&b=3

 

[ElmerJFudd]

46 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Crumar did have one, though. The default installed piano on this was Pianoteq...

 

https://www.crumar.it/?a=showproduct&b=3

 

A shame we can’t get all those Modartt models to pick and choose from on a stage piano with an excellent piano-like action.  Under the hood any modern cpu will do it.  You don’t need a lot of storage or RAM to run it. 

[Adan]

Could easily sit a keyboard on top of that, just need the right padding.  

 

My interest in this depends on whether it's TP100 or something else.  

[drawback]

The AP still doesn't impress me, but as expected, the Rhodes is very, very good. Not yet sure what the "Seventeen" is trying to be that the Seven isn't. Seventeen industrial design does look like a '60s prototype kitchen gadget and I do like the Seven case and design better, but still don't like the multi-coloured pastel lighting. I can't see Fatar releasing the TP110 commercially until they've fully capitalized on it with their own NumaX, so I'm assuming the action on the Seventeen is TP100.

[Hubi]

On 6/11/2022 at 11:44 PM, HammondDave said:

Agree with most of the comments above... but this is just a tease. I would guess that it uses the TP110. Let's hear more about this...  

 

The profile reminds me of my G101 (The top green organ in the photo below).

 

Hah! The red Organ on the left side was my first organ back in 1970!!!

 

On 6/11/2022 at 11:44 PM, HammondDave said:

 

 

[AnotherScott]

14 hours ago, drawback said:

Not yet sure what the "Seventeen" is trying to be that the Seven isn't.

I posted my take on that, at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/182541-something-new-and-interesting-from-crumar/page/2/#comment-2901843

 

[ABECK]

On 6/12/2022 at 9:38 AM, AnotherScott said:

Put the same electronics into a box with a new name, a less EP-specific aesthetic, a less EP-centric (effects-focussed) interface. And maybe try to make it a bit less expensive (the slab piano market being more crowded).

Could be a nice way to get a Seven "lite" out there at a different price point.  It almost looks like they embedded a Gemini in a small weighted controller.   The top shelf would be ideal for a boutique module or two.  I could see certain gigs where the form factor here would work out well.  Curious to see what's under the hood.

[wd8dky]

Multiple nrw videos were posted on YT by GSI for the Seventeen.  Apologies for no links in my post here. 

[ElmerJFudd]

DX7 EP

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

CP80

 

 

[Delaware Dave]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

 

 

 

 

No expression pedal input?  That would rule out VB3 being in the unit nor being able to send expression to the unit via 5 pin as there is no 5-PIN MIDI IN port.  I guess the big reveal is tomorrow according to GSI.

[ElmerJFudd]

So it’s a stage piano possibly at a better price point than Seven.  If it has a TP100, it’s a pass for me.  For Rhodes, fine.   The Seven does sort of feel like a Rhodes action.  But for acoustic piano.  No.  That said, I dig the sound of their modeled instruments and the wooden box with screw in legs is vintage vibey. 

[ProfD]

While I may never own one, I think it's awesome that Crumar continues stepping up to the plate and swinging to deliver KBs to a very niche market. 

 

But, my inner comedian cannot help but to wonder if these efforts are a labor of love or a money laundering endeavor or something in the middle.  😁

 

I would imagine there is a profit somewhere between manufacturing costs and sales.😎

[AnotherScott]

The loss of the expression jack is one more element of support for the theory of this being a lower priced version of the Seven. Below is the Seven's connection panel. Less connectivity, fewer front panel controls, and otherwise possibly the same apart from the aesthetics (my earlier speculation), it should be cheaper, unless maybe it has a pricier action.

[HammondDave]

I don’t get it. Why not put an expression pedal jack in it? 

[Al Coda]

10 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

I don’t get it. Why not put an expression pedal jack in it? 

 

Because manufacturers are too stupid and don´t recognize it´s deal breaker.

They only learn when they don´t get your money!

 

A.C.

[bjosko]

I know Crumar or GSI have a midi expression pedal, perhaps it can be used here ? 

[TommyRude]

On 6/11/2022 at 2:44 PM, HammondDave said:

Agree with most of the comments above... but this is just a tease. I would guess that it uses the TP110. Let's hear more about this...  

 

The profile reminds me of my G101 (The top green organ in the photo below).

 

 

off topic:  a nicely colorful vintage collection!

[AnotherScott]

22 minutes ago, bjosko said:

I know Crumar or GSI have a midi expression pedal, perhaps it can be used here ? 

The GMLabs UP4 USB expression pedal, "ideal for all those situations where an expression pedal is needed to control a software but our keyboard controller lacks a jack for an expression pedal." But I think it has to be connected to the computer/tablet, I doubt you could plug it into the keyboard.

 

Other than as a master volume, the Seven allowed the pedal to control effects. I am guessing/hoping the Seventeen is only missing the pedal control of the effects, and not the effects themselves...

[bjosko]

7 hours ago, AnotherScott said:Other than as a master volume, the Seven allowed the pedal to control effects. I am guessing/hoping the Seventeen is only missing the pedal control of the effects, and not the effects themselves...

 

I know, I got the Seven 2 weeks ago, but with 30 days free return. 
But I don’t know enough about the teenager to know if it will be a clever choice. The Seven is nice as it is, except for the either to heavy or to light keybed ( it got a general touch adjustment in the last firmware update).

[bjosko]

A new video is up, but so far only in Italian. 
Hopefully with English subtitles later, my Italian is not good enough. 
I want to know which keybed it have, and if the effects are editable. 
 

 

[Garubi]

2 hours ago, bjosko said:

A new video is up, but so far only in Italian. 
Hopefully with English subtitles later, my Italian is not good enough. 
I want to know which keybed it have, and if the effects are editable. 
 

 

Product page and specifications are in English.

https://www.crumar.it/?a=showproduct&b=42

 

 

[Spider76]

The product page and specs are a bit baffling: so this is exactly the same as a Seven, only a bit lighter, without lid/legs and a reduced UI.

Really hard to see its commercial viability in the crumar portfolio...unless of course the Seven is about to be discontinued