New Studiologic Numa X Piano

[danskeys]

1 hour ago, b3plyr said:

Yes, GT in the studio (I am one that is looking for lighter weights) and the 88 for gigs. Another reason is the GT is a bit heavier in touch than the 88. I need the heavier touch to help keep up my finger strength. As to keybed preferences, I just sold a Nord Grand because I like the GT and 88 keybed so well. The Nords are great, in the past I have had 4, but the new Numa Xs are too.

Which keybed, the GT or 88, do you think is more like the TP40 on the Nord Stage?  I really love the feel of my Nord stage 4 HA73 but need an 88 note controller for it when at home.  I’m not looking for better, I’m looking for as close to it as possible.  

[CyberGene]

https://studiologic-music.com/blog/2023-12-18_numaxpiano23/
 

Christmas present: firmware 2.3 🎄

[b3plyr]

On 11/29/2023 at 12:23 AM, danskeys said:

Which keybed, the GT or 88, do you think is more like the TP40 on the Nord Stage?  I really love the feel of my Nord stage 4 HA73 but need an 88 note controller for it when at home.  I’m not looking for better, I’m looking for as close to it as possible.  

Sorry I missed responding. I would say the 88 is more like the TP40. The GT is definitely a step up but I really like the 88. I use it for gigging.

[SLHQC]

13 hours ago, CyberGene said:

https://studiologic-music.com/blog/2023-12-18_numaxpiano23/
 

Christmas present: firmware 2.3 🎄

The panning behaviour is a bit weird with the piano patches. The piano sound will pan, but not the resonance and pedal effects. Still, it's encouraging to see that Studiologic is continuing to develop the product. Hopefully we will see further improvements and new downloadable sounds in the near future.

[TomKittel]

9 hours ago, SLHQC said:

The panning behaviour is a bit weird with the piano patches. The piano sound will pan, but not the resonance and pedal effects. Still, it's encouraging to see that Studiologic is continuing to develop the product. Hopefully we will see further improvements and new downloadable sounds in the near future.

 

Would be great if they would open the sample engine for user samples.

[b3plyr]

13 hours ago, TomKittel said:

 

Would be great if they would open the sample engine for user samples.

Yes, it would be great1 I asked Studiologic about this and the answer was they probably would not do it. Their concern is their proprietary compression technique. However, you would think they could do this without giving away any technical details on the compression.

[kenheeter]

I just want them to make the pedal noise adjustment universal.  Sigh......

[b3plyr]

1 hour ago, kenheeter said:

I just want them to make the pedal noise adjustment universal.  Sigh......

Agree!

 

[TomKittel]

18 hours ago, b3plyr said:

Yes, it would be great1 I asked Studiologic about this and the answer was they probably would not do it. Their concern is their proprietary compression technique. However, you would think they could do this without giving away any technical details on the compression.

Nord seems to be able to do it without giving away technical details on their sampling technology. That would certainly further increase the popularity of the numa X Piano. 

[b3plyr]

1 hour ago, TomKittel said:

Nord seems to be able to do it without giving away technical details on their sampling technology. That would certainly further increase the popularity of the numa X Piano. 

I agree. The only explanation I can come up is that Studiologic is doing something so radically different than the standard types of compression that they do have a trade secret. I’m with you, though. I would love to be able to load my own samples.

[counterpoint]

Samples would be nice but there are some basic things I'd like to see more...like:

 

1) the ability to vary the depth and speed of modulation and the amount of pitch bend,

2) having the low pass filter go fully on and off for on all the sounds it can be applied to,

3) perhaps some portamento capabilities, 

4) for the aftertouch to be able to control a few other things beyond modulation, and  

5) having different velocity settings by program, not just globally...even fixed vs not fixed would be enough IMO.  In the alternative, perhaps they can add a set of the synth sounds that work on a fixed velocity.

 

I've already passed most of these along to Gianni.  He's been terrific in responding to and actually fixing some other bugs I have pointed out to him in my year plus of having the NXP 73.

[Nateee]

Any reason not to get this Numa X GT over the Yamaha CP 88 ? 
 

I have been going back and forth between these 2.  I absolutely love the action on the 88 GT , but it does seem like some people have problems with inconsistent keys and other issues.  Sounds are ok but I will use a VST mostly anyway. 

 

The CP 88 is great too. Action is good too but  not as nice.  the sounds and UI is more appealing to me.  Also it’s pretty reliable compared to what people are against about the GT. 
 

I considered the Roland FP90 as well. Great action and piano sounds but I prefer to have some more effects.  
 

Overall, playing the Numa X GT felt like butter but I did notice some keys in the Guitar Center display model were inconsistent. Some louder than others. My main concern is getting the X GT and then it craps out 6 months from now.  Any long term GT users here have any advice ? 

 

edit : just to clarify I’m an intermediate-ish hobbyist. Playing at home and through headphones mostly 

[b3plyr]

7 hours ago, Nateee said:

Any reason not to get this Numa X GT over the Yamaha CP 88 ? 
 

I have been going back and forth between these 2.  I absolutely love the action on the 88 GT , but it does seem like some people have problems with inconsistent keys and other issues.  Sounds are ok but I will use a VST mostly anyway. 

 

The CP 88 is great too. Action is good too but  not as nice.  the sounds and UI is more appealing to me.  Also it’s pretty reliable compared to what people are against about the GT. 
 

I considered the Roland FP90 as well. Great action and piano sounds but I prefer to have some more effects.  
 

Overall, playing the Numa X GT felt like butter but I did notice some keys in the Guitar Center display model were inconsistent. Some louder than others. My main concern is getting the X GT and then it craps out 6 months from now.  Any long term GT users here have any advice ? 

 

edit : just to clarify I’m an intermediate-ish hobbyist. Playing at home and through headphones mostly 

I have two Numa Xs, an 88 and the GT, both from when you could first get them. The GT is in my studio, I gig with the 88. I have had no problems with either. I would take a serious look at the number of people that have had problems. I don’t think there are very many, but you have to quantify that. And in spite of what a few others say, the sounds are really good, if not great in some cases. FYI - after getting the Numa Xs, I sold my Nord Grand. It was a great keyboard, but I like both of the actions on the 88 and GT better. This is strange because the Nord is a Kawai action, albeit with escapement removed. The GT keybed is superb.

 

Having said this, a lot of people really like the CP 88. It didn’t work for me.

[Kentkeys]

13 hours ago, Nateee said:

I did notice some keys in the Guitar Center display model were inconsistent. Some louder than others.

 

A recent update to the firmware allows you to adjust the sensitivity of each note individually. I haven’t tried it.

https://www.studiologic-music.com/blog/2023-10-04_numaxpiano22/

 

BTW, If you have a lot of time to spare there is a recent extremely long review of the Numa X GT here:

https://azpianonews.blogspot.com/2023/07/studiologic-numa-x-piano-gt-review-digital-piano.html

 

The author’s main criticism seems to be about the keys being noisy, but this doesn’t bother me and probably wouldn’t bother you either if you will mainly be using headphones.

[Nateee]

On 12/28/2023 at 5:44 AM, Kentkeys said:

 

A recent update to the firmware allows you to adjust the sensitivity of each note individually. I haven’t tried it.

 

the fact that they released an update like that makes it seem like the problem is pretty widespread.    
 

Either way though, thanks both of you for your input. I bit the bullet and placed the order    Hoping to get the keyboard in a week or so. Will keep you guys updated.  
 

Sam Ash gave me 15% off so it was pretty hard to resist.  

[b3plyr]

57 minutes ago, Nateee said:

 

the fact that they released an update like that makes it seem like the problem is pretty widespread.    
 

Either way though, thanks both of you for your input. I bit the bullet and placed the order    Hoping to get the keyboard in a week or so. Will keep you guys updated.  
 

Sam Ash gave me 15% off so it was pretty hard to resist.  

Congrats on your purchase-I think you will be pleased.  BTW - the keyboard sensitivity release is an additional feature. It is not a fix for supposedly noisy keys. Hence, not a widespread problem.

[Macsaint777]

Just bought a new - not open box...not B Stock, not reselaed...NEW-  Numa X Piano GT. It arrived with a scuffed up screen, very badly aligned LEDs, a missing screw from the right side wooden panel, and worst of all, the D#2 key was far far less sensitive than any others. I adjusted to to 30% max, and while that helped, it was still quite obviously not right, and especially over MIDI, did not play well at all. Also, I owned the SL88 Grand for 5 years. Never had a single problem. I expected this TP-400 Wood action to be miles better than the TP-40 Wood. It isn't. That is not to say it is bad. Compared to the NW-GH of the CP/YC88, it is quite nice... but I really doubt anyone could tell the difference side by side between the SL88 Grand, and the Numa X Piano GT. The differences were extremely slight. I would say, other than the escapement...and perhaps a slightly quieter "thud" when the hammers drop, the actions are nearly identical. For that reason, I promptly boxed mine up and sent it back. I ordered an SL88 Grand (mainly as a bottom board for my Nord Stage 4 compact and Montage M6) and I hope it arrives in perfect working order. Despite the excellent Dr. Mix Fatar tour, the quality control is clearly lacking with these boards. I recall my first purchase of the SL88 Grand when I worked at Sweetwater. I had to swap it immediately because of a dead note. The next one was excellent and lasted 5 years, then I sold it because I bought a YC88 and simply didn't have the room for two large 88 note boards.  A word about the sounds. For the most part, the pianos were fine. They are definitely largely modeled, but the EPs, and especially Wurlitzer sounds were quite nice. Organs, which used the dedicated rotary effect, were surprisingly good. Strings... meh...   Synths, and Pads, were excellent. The "analog" stuff in particular was far better than I expected. Upright piano was good.. Japan Grand was good. The others...were just OK. But I had no intention of using this as anything but a MIDI controller, so I don't really care about the sounds. My takeaway is this.... If, like me you think the TP-400 Wood is the best thing you can get in a controller, and you are happy to hand over the extra 1K for that action... SAVE YOUR MONEY and buy the SL 88 Grand. It is hardly worth 1K to get an audio/midi interface. If you want a stage piano with built in sounds, great action, and an audio/midi interface, then I'd say you are better off with a CP88 or YC88...but if you just want the great action... you are getting 95% of that same feel (minus escapement) with the SL88 Grand. You will rarely meet a more picky player when it comes to feel and action, than myself. I could get a Kawai VPC-1 or any number of other top tier controllers.. and I would say the SL 88 Grand is about the best value and feel wise that you can get in a portable MIDI controller. 

[b3plyr]

6 hours ago, Macsaint777 said:

Just bought a new - not open box...not B Stock, not reselaed...NEW-  Numa X Piano GT. It arrived with a scuffed up screen, very badly aligned LEDs, a missing screw from the right side wooden panel, and worst of all, the D#2 key was far far less sensitive than any others. I adjusted to to 30% max, and while that helped, it was still quite obviously not right, and especially over MIDI, did not play well at all. Also, I owned the SL88 Grand for 5 years. Never had a single problem. I expected this TP-400 Wood action to be miles better than the TP-40 Wood. It isn't. That is not to say it is bad. Compared to the NW-GH of the CP/YC88, it is quite nice... but I really doubt anyone could tell the difference side by side between the SL88 Grand, and the Numa X Piano GT. The differences were extremely slight. I would say, other than the escapement...and perhaps a slightly quieter "thud" when the hammers drop, the actions are nearly identical. For that reason, I promptly boxed mine up and sent it back. I ordered an SL88 Grand (mainly as a bottom board for my Nord Stage 4 compact and Montage M6) and I hope it arrives in perfect working order. Despite the excellent Dr. Mix Fatar tour, the quality control is clearly lacking with these boards. I recall my first purchase of the SL88 Grand when I worked at Sweetwater. I had to swap it immediately because of a dead note. The next one was excellent and lasted 5 years, then I sold it because I bought a YC88 and simply didn't have the room for two large 88 note boards.  A word about the sounds. For the most part, the pianos were fine. They are definitely largely modeled, but the EPs, and especially Wurlitzer sounds were quite nice. Organs, which used the dedicated rotary effect, were surprisingly good. Strings... meh...   Synths, and Pads, were excellent. The "analog" stuff in particular was far better than I expected. Upright piano was good.. Japan Grand was good. The others...were just OK. But I had no intention of using this as anything but a MIDI controller, so I don't really care about the sounds. My takeaway is this.... If, like me you think the TP-400 Wood is the best thing you can get in a controller, and you are happy to hand over the extra 1K for that action... SAVE YOUR MONEY and buy the SL 88 Grand. It is hardly worth 1K to get an audio/midi interface. If you want a stage piano with built in sounds, great action, and an audio/midi interface, then I'd say you are better off with a CP88 or YC88...but if you just want the great action... you are getting 95% of that same feel (minus escapement) with the SL88 Grand. You will rarely meet a more picky player when it comes to feel and action, than myself. I could get a Kawai VPC-1 or any number of other top tier controllers.. and I would say the SL 88 Grand is about the best value and feel wise that you can get in a portable MIDI controller. 

First, I am sorry to hear of your poor experience with the Numa X GT. I have an 88 and a GT. Both arrived in excellent condition and have performed flawlessly. And for full disclosure, I really like the Numa X line. I have seen nothing but high quality.

 

Having said that, obviously you received a bum product. However, I wonder if it was a bum product due to quality control or terrible mishandling in shipping. The scuffed screen may be a little harder to explain, but the rest of your problems could easily be from handling. And by handling that could be at the factory in packing or during transit. I once shipped a heavy amplifier that arrived with a heavily dented metal chassis. Your package was still good, but that does not rule out damage due to mishandling. 

 

I think your full disclosure is good for all to see - you have presented a lot of useful information. But I hope it doesn’t discourage others too much. I use the 88 for gigging. Some advantages - light weight, TP110 keybed is really nice, the built in 4 channel mixer means I no longer carry a separate mixer for my duo, And for me, the sounds are really good. Tweaking is simple yet flexible. As I have said in previous posts, the GT is in my studio and after getting it, I sold my Nord Grand that had a Kawai keybed. I, for one, really like the TP400 that is in the GT.

 

Again, thanks for your honest and personal assessment of a sad experience. In spite of it, you did objectively provide some comparisons and due credit to good features.

[Nateee]

Got my Numa GT 88 delivered today.  
 

I’m pretty sure Sam Ash sent me a used or possible refurbished model.  It came fully packaged but was pretty dusty and some of the keys have a slight grey discoloration on them.  Specifically on the middle octaves.  Not a big deal though.  
 

 

I did find I have a similar “clicking” problem that others mentioned.  G4 and E5 have this weird clicking noise when pressed. Other keys just thud.  Seems like a mechanical issue but not too noticeable when playing with headphones on.  
 

 

Still exploring this thing, but once I dialed in the velocity and keyboard sensitivity to my liking it really is a dream to play this keybed.  Coming from a semi weighted Kurzweil Sp5 this keybed feels smooth like butter and responsive.  Just want to keep playing and playing on it.   
 

Sounds are good too.  The acoustic pianos sound good out of the box.  The Rhodes and Wurlitzer need some tweaking for me tho but there’s plenty of options to mess with.  
 

 

Overall I think I will end up keeping this thing. There’s those few small quirks like the key clicking and sometimes it’s real easy to hit max velocity when I don’t intend to, but other than that, just the feel of the keybed and then joy of playing this keyboard , outweighs those few complaints I have.  

[RandyFF]

Congrats, it's really an outstanding keyboard, and you got the GT, lucky you!

[Stefan011]

Hi, I am thinking about getting Numa X Piano 73 as my main gigging instrument (Kurzweil PC4 or Yamaha are also in play). Questions are: how well does Numa sit in the mix? Is it good instrument for live use? I play mostly funk, jazz and fusion. Mostly EP, AP, come clavi, wurly and also controlling external synth. Is it possible to carry it in  a gigbag with backstraps?

 

Thanks!

[Noah DC]

I use the Numa X 73 in a live band setting on the regular. I carry it on my back with the Gator Go-Pro 61 Slim gig bag.

[RandyFF]

5 hours ago, Stefan011 said:

Hi, I am thinking about getting Numa X Piano 73 as my main gigging instrument (Kurzweil PC4 or Yamaha are also in play). Questions are: how well does Numa sit in the mix? Is it good instrument for live use? I play mostly funk, jazz and fusion. Mostly EP, AP, come clavi, wurly and also controlling external synth. Is it possible to carry it in  a gigbag with backstraps?

 

Thanks!

Btw the Kurz pc4-7 and the Numa, they're different boards- ones a do all workstation with a semi-weighted action, the Numa is more targeted, more of a stage keyboard, with a very decent weighted action.  The Yamaha CP73 is pricier, and from what I've heard, you get a better action with the Numa X 73.

 

The Numa X 73 has many good qualities for a gigging instrument, including a steel shell that manages to weigh only 25 pounds, and so short the 73 fits in many 61 bags.  The keybed is serviceable for APs and EPs, the OS is very user friendly, and having a 4 input mixer w/effects makes it very versatile for bringing in a mic, other keyboards and even a guitar.  It was made to be a gigging keyboard.  And it's audio USB interface, complete with a volume knob for incoming audio, makes it a slam dunk for ipad/laptop sounds.  And the price point is hard to beat- I bought a used one for $900.

 

The thing that kills me about this board is how simple it is, but you still get 4 sounds (internal or external) that you have immediate and direct control over including volume and fx, so putting together a multi is quick, easy and satisfying.  Soundwise, I enjoy most of what's on offer, the EPs being their strongest, but I find the APs very satisfying as well.  And the fx sound really good.

[Macsaint777]

UPDATE on my experience with the Numa X GT. I bought an SL 88 Grand instead.. and it is perfect. 

 

[Stefan011]

Thanks guys!

 

I want to music store today and spent some time with Numa X Piano73. The keybed felt pretty nice, form factor is great.

 

Long story short: now Im downloading a new firmware for my new keyboard 🙂

 

(There was also X GT and I really loved the keys)

[b3plyr]

27 minutes ago, Stefan011 said:

Thanks guys!

 

I want to music store today and spent some time with Numa X Piano73. The keybed felt pretty nice, form factor is great.

 

Long story short: now Im downloading a new firmware for my new keyboard 🙂

 

(There was also X GT and I really loved the keys)

Congratulations on your new “toy”. I have both (88 and GT) but really enjoy playing my 88 (same keybed as you 73) at gigs.

[Stefan011]

The sounds will need some tweeking though 🙂

[CyberGene]

38 minutes ago, Stefan011 said:

The sounds will need some tweeking though

I’ve been going back and forth between my Numa X 73 and my CK61 and I think almost every single sound on the CK is better than the Numa but it’s just a very slight difference. It’s not like the Numa sounds are not good. They are very good too, but as you said, they may need some massaging. That’s mostly when comparing pianos and electric pianos, they can be made similar between both. For the rest, the CK is much better: organs, synths (with portamento and much more usable filter and envelope control), pads, strings, brasses. But there are some features of the Numa that are simply great, such as the excellent internal/external zone implementation, mixer, keyboard action. My dream instrument would be a marriage between the best features from the Numa and the CK. 

[Stefan011]

After the first week, I am pleasantly surprised.

 

I've heard a lot of bad things about accoustic piano sounds but they are rather nice. Not the most detailed but pleasant, dynamic and playable. Favourites so far are the Vintage and the new Yamaha C-183.

 

On the other hand EPs were disappointing at first. A was used to the great midrangey MkI by Purgatory Creek on Kurzweil. I like my sound more in the style of early Herbie so I rolled off the tines. Here the Mk I sounds rather dull with weak mids. But Mk II and Suitcase respond better and are pretty usable. At least to my ears. Any recommended settings?

 

I dont care about the other sounds so far but MIDI and Audio routing is just great. I am controlling my mono synth, changing external patches, creatling splits and using audio inputs with ease. Whoever designed it deserves a medal.

 

I parted ways with Nord Electro mostly because of the TP 100. But 110 is really an improvement. Not exactly great but very playable and most importantly I can feel no fatigue after an hour of playing and no need to slow down. 

 

I would really appreciate Rhodes Mk V and Ring modulator but hey.

 

The biggest test is yet to come: playing with a band. Stay tuned 🙂  

 

 

[rtme]

So in my search for a Compact Stage Piano(which looks nice too and has a 73 keys version) I also wanted to give the Numa X Piano 73 a chance.

I already owned a Yamaha CP73 (bought for €1500,- new in 2021, what happened with all the prices!) and I eventually sold it because of the action: It wasn't bad but it has a lot of bounce and I couldn't really connect to it, although the piano sounds are really GREAT on these CP's.

So I went for the Numa X 73 as a lot of users on this forum (and others like pianoclack) are very positive about it. So I was very optimistic when I turned it on and played my first song, but that optimistic feeling disappeared after a while and I would like to share why: It might be of help to those who consider buying the Numa X Piano.

(Note: All of this is just my opinion and not the holy truth, YMMV)

The good:

• The TP/110 keybed: It's a really good action (although not graded), especially for a stage piano. Stage piano actions always seem to be a trade-off between playability and portability. The keys has no bounce at all and they feel really nice.
• The form factor: It's one of the smallest stage pianos out there, but full with features and it also looks very nice!
• The features: The class compliant audio interface is great for connecting your iPad as a sound module with just a single cable.
• MIDI capability is excellent: As a controller and also for using this board as a controller for Pianoteq etc.

The less good:

• The User Interface: When Studiologic released a revolutional new user interface called  "UX Logic" I expected something on par with IOS or other great UI "revolutions". This isn't really the case. An example is when you are editing a sound or selecting a voice is so easily mixed up with selecting a program: And gone are all your chances. It also is sometimes unclear how to exit a certain menu (press "X" or something else) and I constantly had to think in the beginning how to use it. I'm not saying the UI is bad (it's pretty OK when you're used to it) but it's not a "Completely New User Interface Concept".
• The clicky buttons. Some of the buttons do really make a loud, hard plastic noise. These buttons also feel a bit cheap. This is a bit "off" as the piano itself really feels as a premium product (metal housing, excellent keybed etc).
• The "note off" trigger of the keys: When you release one of the keys just a tiny bit (like 1 mm or so), the "note off" is already triggered for this key. Which means when you play a bit sloppy (or when your hand is spread out because you play notes in two octaves), and you release the key a tiny bit the sounds is gone. I could live with it as it could be related to bad technique, but a little bit more slack would be nice (other keybeds have a slack from 3 to even 5 mm).
   

The bad:

Well that's actually just one thing, but for me an important one: How the build-in acoustic piano patches sound and how the keybed responds to them. They are not bad as in very ugly bad, but the dynamics and additions on them are just...not pleasant. When you play with low velocity, the piano sounds are sort of filtered with a low pass filter. You can adjust this a bit with the "Tone" parameter, but this is the same thing: It just adjusts the cut-off value of a very present LPF on the sound, this has nothing to do with adjusting the tone. I also find it hard to connect with the dynamics with the onboard sounds: When I play the keyboard with external sound sources (like Pianoteq) this is immediately much better, so it's not the keyboard: It's the onboard sound generation.

The pedal noise sound is a disaster, it's plain ugly and I can't understand how this is of any use. The string resonance and duplex parameters are also adding a lot of artificial artifacts to the sound, like 12-bit digital effects. The EQ of the sounds are also very "mid" minded: I have to boost the low and high to get a nice balanced piano sound. This is with most of the pianos, and not with the other sounds.

As I bought the Numa X Piano as a "stand-alone piano", there was only one option for me and that was to return it. I think the keyboard and the hardware itself is excellent, but the piano tone generation is for me not good enough.