New Studiologic Numa X Piano

[CyberGene]

@rtme I agree with your conclusions. I believe I’ve shared all of them here and on PianoClack (I’m that forum’s owner/creator). The low velocity piano timbre, the UI which can make it easy to lose your edits, etc 😕 However, I purchased mine as a lightweight rehearsal piano, while I have an AvantGrand N1X as my main piano which is why the Numa is perfect for me. But I also think it may not be the best choice as your main piano. 

[Romeokeyz]

So rounding up all the comments about the Numa 88GT

 

It has an unpredictable keybed which throws loud notes,midi is all over the place, sounds are terrible, UI is poor as well

 

I was about to to buy one to control pianoteq8 on a ipad , had a kawai mp9500 for years and its slugish action is annoying.

 

Thank you for saving me £1400

 

 

 

 

 

[b3plyr]

On 1/19/2024 at 1:22 PM, Romeokeyz said:

So rounding up all the comments about the Numa 88GT

 

It has an unpredictable keybed which throws loud notes,midi is all over the place, sounds are terrible, UI is poor as well

 

I was about to to buy one to control pianoteq8 on a ipad , had a kawai mp9500 for years and its slugish action is annoying.

 

Thank you for saving me £1400

 

 

 

 

 

I think you are looking at too small of a sample. I have had no problems with the GT, love the keybed and UI. I actually sold my Nord Grand but compared them while I had both. From my perspective, the Nord pianos really did not overshadow the GT. Some of the other sounds are far better than the Nord - they are multi samples. So be careful, some are unhappy with the keyboard, others love it. It happens this way every time with a new keyboard.

[RandyFF]

On 1/20/2024 at 12:15 PM, b3plyr said:

I think you are looking at too small of a sample. I have had no problems with the GT, love the keybed and UI. I actually sold my Nord Grand but compared them while I had both. From my perspective, the Nord pianos really did not overshadow the GT. Some of the other sounds are far better than the Nord - they are multi samples. So be careful, some are unhappy with the keyboard, others love it. It happens this way every time with a new keyboard.

 

On 1/19/2024 at 10:22 AM, Romeokeyz said:

So rounding up all the comments about the Numa 88GT

 

It has an unpredictable keybed which throws loud notes,midi is all over the place, sounds are terrible, UI is poor as well

 

I was about to to buy one to control pianoteq8 on a ipad , had a kawai mp9500 for years and its slugish action is annoying.

 

Thank you for saving me £1400

 

I'm with b3plyr here.  I've read thru these forum pages twice and looked extensively online for other reviews and forums regarding this board.  I also have owned the X 73 for about 6 months.

 

If I was an ai summarizing all of what I've read, b3plyr said it well: some love it, some are unhappy, which is my general experience with most new boards that come out.  The folks having problems are the first to get on a forum and air their complaints/problems. IME it's only when every 3d or 5th post talks about significant problems that you begin to wonder.  I'd say for this board it's about every 10-15 posts. AND, they're extremely responsive and give quick replies to people having problems, moreso than I've ever heard of with other manufacturers.

 

Of what I've read about the GT, the keybed problems you're talking about is 5% of what I've read, if that.  Consistently I've heard over and again about what a great keyboard controller it is, well-designed interface for external sounds, and the keybed is a dream, the best out there regardless of price.

As for the sounds, it depends on who you ask.  Noone I've read says they're terrible, but some who have a good ear for pianos have noted that there are problems with some of the APs.  The EPs get pretty consistently high marks.  A few find the other sounds not quite as good as the Yamaha boards, but still very serviceable as a stage piano.  Myself and quite a few others really enjoy the other sounds.

 

The UI gets mixed reviews: it's not as knobby as the Yamahas, but I'd guesstimate that at least 80% of the reviews say how impressed they are, that the whole system is fast and very user friendly, surprised at how the important things are very easy to adjust. It's one of my favorite things about this board.

 

 

And of course there's the contextualizing: at it's given price point, how does it stack up?  Turns out Yamaha has provided some really solid competition.  More often than not, the CP88 is the board many aspire to, and it has some compelling features like
- a premium keybed that most are happy with
- a quality of sound that many tout as ready to play, excellent, perhaps a step beyond the Numa
- more of a Nord kind of physical 1-to-1 UI that many enjoy

- 2 sets of outs 

- 41 pounds vs 48 for the numa GT

 

Where it compares less favorably:

- the CP73 has a keybed many don't get on with, so the real comparison point is to the CP88 at $2600

- the Numa GT has the highest reported feel I've ever seen for a stage keyboard, descriptions of 'like butter' and 'exquisite' are common. Read the user reviews on Sweetwater.

- the Numa X73 keybed is highly rated as being very serviceable for both APs and EPs, and at 26 pounds with a metal casing, and a form factor that allows it to fit in a 61 note bag, that alone is enough to constitute a buying decision for many people given how many other things check out. It also helps that with the 4-in mixer it simplifies performance setup

- the CP88 is $2600

       Numa Gt $2000
Numa X 88/73 $1300 / $1500.

For me, the CP88 and the GT are too pricey for my budget, and they both weigh more than I'm willing/able to deal with.

- it plays only 3 sounds at once compared to 4 for the Numa.  That's a big one in my book, esp since the external connections use up voices

 

 

Another keyboard that's been mentioned is the Yamaha CK61.  The CK88 has a keybed many find substandard/uninspiring, so only the CK61 is in the running here.  But for those that want a super lightweight, inexpensive board, $1000, the CK checks a lot of boxes.  Maybe as a top board given it's semi-weight action.

 

And of course, all of this is are my conclusions, I speak for no one else. But your blanket conclusions seem far off the mark, and here's why I think so.  

 

[AnotherScott]

On 1/21/2024 at 5:28 PM, RandyFF said:

CP88...plays only 3 sounds at once compared to 4 for the Numa.  That's a big one in my book, esp since the external connections use up voices

CP88 can simultaneously play 3 internal sounds (using a single available split point between them) and 4 external sounds (each with their own independently settable key ranges). The external sounds don't use up internal voices. (Though irritatingly, the board lacks real-time volume controls for the external zones.)

[RDM]

 

[obxa]

Sorry boring travel=long post.

 

  At some point I guess most of us are looking for validation we've made the right decision,  or support that we haven't.   When deciding these kind of things, I have to remind myself:  It's just an inanimate piece of gear, not Sophie's choice. 🫣

 

Full disclosure:  Still on the fence whether I should sell my Numa, there is a lot to like.   I've been happier with the Yamaha YC73, at least for AP duties and as a one-board option for some gigs.    I'm pretty sure where I'm heading.  That's based on the musician's form of empirical evidence: GIGS.  But that shouldn't mean squat to you. 

 

 

Price wise, I wouldn't compare the NumaX stuff to a CP88 or even the YC.  At least I didn't at first.   I'd probably compare it more to Yamaha's (or Kawai) better pro-sumer slab pianos, or the YK stuff.   In that light, the Numa feature set is much better.    However, trying to compare pianos that use completely different sound generation technologies will drive you nuts.

 

Though not always  marketed exclusively this way, the Numa is a virtual modelling piano hybrid, with some rompler stuff added. So you have to know what you're getting into. Sounds different because it is different. 

 

 I've waxed ad-nauseum that Modelled pianos respond wonderfully.   But compared to purely sampled piano, they may not always be something your ear gels with.    Particularly with exposed AP.     Within a busy live band (or studio mix) context they sit great.  IMHO if not playing the Numa in an ideal, preferably stereo amplification or in-ears,  you might not love it.    In combat, I've found sampled pianos a bit more forgiving.    After serious tweaks,  I do really love the tone and response of the Numa EP.. Which of course still  work great in mono, and/or less favorable amplification.    But that's not the only sound I need.  

 

 The perfect multi-use keyboard doesn't exist.   If you do different kinds of music and gigs, that complicates things.  Love the Numa mixer. Hate the power adaptor.  Just depends on the type of gigs you actually do.   For the price the Numas are an incredible value.

 

As to comparisons made to the CP:  By my limited research and seeing internet chatter,  the CP 88 (and 73) appear to have been neglected by Yamaha.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.  Not discontinued, not abandoned- but don't see any love or updates either.   I think they're superb piano-centric boards.   If one came across cheap used, I'd give it strong consideration.   But I wouldn't expect any revolutionary OS changes and wouldn't buy a new one unless heavily discounted. 

There's still a decent presence for the YC community, but that too will wane as Yamaha is all in on the CK series right now. 

 

 I'm used to being on completely different actions weekly on most gigs or sessions.  So have no problem adapting to the YC73.  Having used it on both AP and EP focused gigs,   I do like the Numa action a little better.  I miss the Numa's aftertouch too.   Call me a heretic, but still like the Nord Stage 88 action.  They're all like driving a rental car to me.  Takes a minute to adjust, but after a couple of songs I'm good. 

 

But my chicken or egg question is do you first respond to sound or the action?   For me it's the overall sound, and how quickly I can tweak said sound on gig.   I think if I were doing this all again,  I'd buy a YC61 as a top board for organ/synth and the SL midi controller as a bottom board to control those YC piano sounds.  That was my original plan except with  Nord Compact/ Electro piano sound up top  controlled externally.   But that left me without a single weighted keyboard for solo small format stuff.

 

Look at enough reviews on  Amazon (who arguably started this whole user-review mess...) you can always find enough positives to justify any purchase (if they aren't fake...) and enough to justify the negative.   So who do you listen to?  Your inner voice, that's who.    

 

  Buddhists have a saying "First thought best thought."  In spite of any ongoing inner discussion after unboxing and playing- your very first impression was probably the correct one for you.  

  When it comes to gear,  no decision is permanent.   If possible find a vendor with a liberal return policy even if it's a tiny bit more $$.   Be prepared to spend a few bucks paying return shipping or restock fee. Take the keyboard on a few real world gigs (if you play live).  If you love it great. Be happy and don't worry what the internet says.     If not, stop trying to convince yourself of what you already ultimately decided.    At least that's what I tell myself, and maybe it applies to you.

 

 

 

 

 

  

[AnotherScott]

7 hours ago, obxa said:

But my chicken or egg question is do you first respond to sound or the action? 

Of those two, I prioritize action, since you can possibly address sound (with iPad for example), but you can't do anything about the action. Plus, I don't think too many boards these days don't have sounds that are "good enough" for most purposes -- though you may want better for some sound or another, more likely for your own satisfaction than for anything anyone in the audience will notice.

 

7 hours ago, obxa said:

For me it's the overall sound, and how quickly I can tweak said sound on gig.

Wait, that wasn't one of the choices! 😉

 

And now you see why I started the previous sentence with "of those two," because it's not just a choice between sound and action. Operational ergonomics is a big one for me as well. Also portability.

 

So out of sound, action, ergonomics, portability... sound is probably my lowest priority of the four! Still the desire for all four may be why some of us always seem to be on the hunt.

 

7 hours ago, obxa said:

I think if I were doing this all again,  I'd buy a YC61 as a top board for organ/synth and the SL midi controller as a bottom board to control those YC piano sounds.  That was my original plan except with  Nord Compact/ Electro piano sound up top  controlled externally.   But that left me without a single weighted keyboard for solo small format stuff.

There are alternatives to the SL MIDI controller that could serve the need for "a bottom board to control those YC piano sounds" while also giving you "a single weighted keyboard for solo small format stuff." I suppose just about any weighted-board-with-sounds with a 5-pin MIDI Out could do (though there are fewer lightweight/low-cost options that meet that criteria than there used to be)m at east depending on how wide a range of sounds you need it to have. My first thought is Casio PX-5S, which at 88 keys is still even lighter than the smaller SL's 73, and maintains the 4-zone controller aspect in case that were to come into play. You do lose aftertouch and expression pedal, but probably not deal-killers for this purpose. And it is pricier... but still cheaper than a Numa X.

 

But also, picking up from something earlier, if you have (or are open to acquiring) an iPad (or even an iPhone), the SL MIDI controller does not necessarily leave you "without a single weighted keyboard for solo small format stuff" in this scenario. But I know, there's still something unnatural feeling to some of us about making that kind of paradigm shift. 😉

 

7 hours ago, obxa said:

Look at enough reviews on  Amazon (who arguably started this whole user-review mess...) you can always find enough positives to justify any purchase (if they aren't fake...) and enough to justify the negative.

...and enough negatives to justify passing on it. Which brings me to...

 

7 hours ago, obxa said:

So who do you listen to?  Your inner voice, that's who.    

Probably one of the main values of Amazon reviews is to help convince yourself of what you were leaning toward doing anyway. 😉

 

[counterpoint]

My current "full" set-up is a Numa X 73 downstairs and a YC61 upstairs along with a computer and/or IPad.  The Numa replaced my PX 5S (which I still have) because I wanted the smaller footprint, easier programming and second USB Audio opportunity.  I was hoping that Studiologic would come out with an updated SL 73 with the TP110 and some of the controls from the Mixface integrated in, but no dice yet.  If it does, I would be very tempted to replace the Numa X. 

[Stefan011]

After few weeks with Numa X 73 I still dig the action, form factor and the overall interface. Yeah, the sounds aren't there (at least to my fingers and ears). I'm currently struggling with Mainstage and adjusting VSTs from my home studio for live use. I

 

But of course if they can upgrade the sound or enable SFZ, that would make a killer board.

[b3plyr]

Not sure about the complaints about sound. I've had great luck in my duo, both with the 88 and GT. Also, for me, having the audio mixer is a real bonus. No more mixer to carry and the mix for vocals is at my fingertips. One more thing, there have already been major updates to the board. Expect more.

[Stefan011]

Yes, the mixer is great! I used it for synth module and it works great, especially when gate disabled.

 

The sounds - they are not bad. A lot depends on playing style and context. To my ears, the acoustic piano sounds good on the higher velocities but dull when playing softer. Eps have too much bell and weaker body.

 

Would audience notice any of this? Probably not 🙂

[Stefan011]

Ok, it sounds great here:

 

 

[jcamp4]

Anyone having problems with numa x piano 73 or 88 keybeds. On my 88 (9 months old) the middle register some keys were clicking loudly had to send to distributor, its been almost 2 weeks and no response on it yet. I ordered a 73 and the top C# D and D# were clicking so bad right out of the box had to return. I am now hesitant to pursue this line anymore, too bad it ticked a lot of boxes for a gigging keyboard.

[b3plyr]

52 minutes ago, jcamp4 said:

Anyone having problems with numa x piano 73 or 88 keybeds. On my 88 (9 months old) the middle register some keys were clicking loudly had to send to distributor, its been almost 2 weeks and no response on it yet. I ordered a 73 and the top C# D and D# were clicking so bad right out of the box had to return. I am now hesitant to pursue this line anymore, too bad it ticked a lot of boxes for a gigging keyboard.

No problems yet, and I have used the 88 and GT a lot. Sorry to hear of your issues. To be honest, I have never had any problems with Fatar keybed. Of course, others have. I suggest you send an email to Gianni at info@studiologic-music.com. He has been most responsive.

[jcamp4]

Yes he is great, one of the reasons I hope this will work out. Will let you know how the repair goes on my 88, ordering another 73 from B&H today.

[RandyFF]

I've had my X73 for 6 months or so.  No problems with the keybed.  I have noticed when I went from the high desert with low humidity to a beach community in Southern CA, that for the first little while the thunking in the keybed was super noticeable and objectionable.  Thankfully it cleared up by itself in a short time.  I also consider the action to be noisier than I like, but given everything i do like, it doesn't hold me back from enjoying this keyboard, which I do thoroughly.  I also had a situation when a key had become unseated, as in sticking up.  Someone else on this thread had the same problem, and it turns out all I needed to do is push the key back down to its seated position.  Perhaps lifting the key up from the portion closest to the player, out of its seat, and then back down again?  Crazy, right, but if you're turning it in for repair anyway, I wouldn't be super surprised if that solved the clicking.  Who knows- it didn't seem to hurt the keybed, I imagine that might be part of the assembly procedure.

 

Broke out my Yamaha PSR EW425, a new iteration as of a few months earlier, and was reminded how much i dislike it- the quality of sounds are for the most part sub-standard, though i'm not sure how much is 'amplified' by the on-board speakers!  And the action is objectionable as well.  I seem to have finally developed standards around these things, the last 3 sub $500 keyboards i bought, the CASIO CT-S500 / CT-X5000 and the Yamaha PSR EW425, I found them all objectionable, the action, the sounds, the CT-S500 being the best of the bunch.

 

The X73 isn't my favorite key action, but it's very serviceable for both EPs and Pianos, same goes for the sound quality of EPs/APs.  Not sure why I launched into this, you were addressing problems with the action, so I suppose my words are a, "At least you're not dealing with cheapie keyboards that can't manage the basics!"  Silly of me i know-

 

Have to say how seriously impressed I was with Justin Lee Shultz NAMM performance!  I don't get why so many people adulate Herbie and Chick, perhaps I don't know the songs they are riffing off of, but i've never felt the appeal.  I really enjoyed Justin's performance (yes I too can play like that 'cause I have a Numa X Piano!), I knew the song, and could hear him coming back again and again to the melody and then doing cool stuff with it.  That's closer to what I enjoy when listening to jazz, it's all about the melody/harmonies, and how inventive you can be with it!

 

 

[TomKittel]

14 hours ago, jcamp4 said:

Anyone having problems with numa x piano 73 or 88 keybeds. On my 88 (9 months old) the middle register some keys were clicking loudly had to send to distributor, its been almost 2 weeks and no response on it yet. I ordered a 73 and the top C# D and D# were clicking so bad right out of the box had to return. I am now hesitant to pursue this line anymore, too bad it ticked a lot of boxes for a gigging keyboard.

 
No keybed issues here. Still digging my numa x piano 73 after playing it for a couple of months now. 
 

My only dislike is the quality of the AP and EP factory presets. Most of them are way too dull for my taste. But this can be changed easily. For live playing I simply turned up  tone control of the APs and tried different velocity settings. Also I switched off pedal noise, resonance and duplex. 
 

One thing I am missing badly is that velocity settings can’t be saved per program. Velocity can only be set globally. Hope they will fix that in a future update like Yamaha did with the YC series.

[Stefan011]

And Another one. The should share the setting because I must be doing something wrong. Or they have great post production 🙂

 

 

[lele]

Hi all,

 

this is my first post in this forum.

I own a Roland RD88 and it's a very good keyboard as it comes with about 3000 thousand sounds created with their SuperNatural and ZEN-Core technologies. 

My need now is to perform live with a band where I will mainly use AP's, EP's and Organs. On this side Roland has 'average' presets that need serious tweaks to become 'realistic' and a poor user interface so make changes 'on the fly' is not that easy.

Would you recommend a switch to Numa X 88 for piano and organ sounds? Is the Fatar TP110 reasonably better than PHA-4 keybed?

 

Thanks for your advice

 

[AnotherScott]

8 hours ago, lele said:

 

I own a Roland RD88...My need now is to perform live with a band where I will mainly use AP's, EP's and Organs. On this side Roland has 'average' presets that need serious tweaks to become 'realistic' and a poor user interface so make changes 'on the fly' is not that easy.

Would you recommend a switch to Numa X 88 for piano and organ sounds?

 

In hammer action boards for that usage, Yamaha YC73 would be my pick over either the RD88 or Numa PIano X.

 

8 hours ago, lele said:

Is the Fatar TP110 reasonably better than PHA-4 keybed?

 

Something that makes action comparisons especially tricker for this use is that, while playing organ from hammer action is always a compromise, the hammer actions that are more suitable for organ tend to also be the ones that are not quite as good for piano.

[pianomikeoct]

I have the Numa x 88 , I have played it out in bands and it is a great keyboard for live performance, mine has the cheaper action but its still pretty easy to play plus its light, you can also tweak the piano's to sound good like the sound Justin is getting out of his piano. For 1500 dollars its low priced mid range piano sound that has alot of advantages , its like the RD 2000 in the way you can control multiple instrument sounds at the same time , for being in a band it's a no brainer instrument, I top mine off with a light weight Hammond XK-1c and I can cover a whole lot of songs with them.

[Brad Kaenel]

 

Two thumbs way, way up again for the Numa X's external zone and MIDI implementation. Playing a Motown show this weekend, and adding VB3 was just dead simple -- one MIDI cable. Done.

 

Another nice benefit of those blank areas on either side of the NX's controls -- my magnetic iPad folio really grabs on. It ain't goin' nowhere...

 

 

[TomKittel]

On 2/16/2024 at 9:11 PM, Stefan011 said:

And Another one. The should share the setting because I must be doing something wrong. Or they have great post production 🙂

 

 

 

The „soft“ velocity setting plus adding about 10% to 15% key sensitivity brings the Rhodes sounds to live. My favorite is the Mark 1. Not sure which Rhodes version is played in the video. As said before I miss the option to store velocity settings individually in the presets. 

[stoken6]

On 3/1/2024 at 4:17 PM, lele said:

Would you recommend a switch to Numa X 88 for piano and organ sounds? Is the Fatar TP110 reasonably better than PHA-4 keybed?

 

On 3/2/2024 at 1:09 AM, AnotherScott said:

In hammer action boards for that usage, Yamaha YC73 would be my pick over either the RD88 or Numa PIano X.

I remember discussion on how the original Nord Stage Hammer Action was better than most hammers for organ - (a large part of that was probably that Nord used high trigger for organ). If you can find a s/h Nord Stage Classic/EX that will provide the AP/EP/Organ that you asked about, plus some VA synth. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Stefan011]

16 hours ago, TomKittel said:

 

The „soft“ velocity setting plus adding about 10% to 15% key sensitivity brings the Rhodes sounds to live. My favorite is the Mark 1. Not sure which Rhodes version is played in the video. As said before I miss the option to store velocity settings individually in the presets. 

Thanks, I will try this. Even on the video it is audiable that the bark is there but the body in the upper register is lacking (to my ears at least). 

[Stefan011]

To be fair someone posted a video of Michael Mcdonal playing the Rhodes with a strong bell sound and I think the X Piano can nail that kind of sound.

[TomKittel]

On 3/11/2024 at 8:53 AM, Stefan011 said:

Thanks, I will try this. Even on the video it is audiable that the bark is there but the body in the upper register is lacking (to my ears at least). 

 

Please disregard what I wrote about my favorite Mark I setting. I just found a Mark II setting that made me wet myself. Sounds great with the „normal“ or soft velocity setting. Numa X screenshots attached if you want to try it. These settings pretty much match the sound in this video:

 

[Stefan011]

Now we're talking! Mk II sounds the best to my ears and I use similar setting (but Your setting is more radical with hammers and EQ). I will try it tomorrow.

 

BTW I regularly play this tune with my band 🙂

[Stefan011]

Ok, I was a bit sceptical about rolling the bass all the way down, but somehow it works. Thanks for sharing.