New Studiologic Numa X Piano

[kanefsky]

34 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

There are, but if - like me - you simply want a lightweight hammer-action controller, it's a pain to carry an extra device, and connect it to both boards, and to power - never mind the additional expense. Compare that to a single MIDI cable. 

 

Agreed, depending on the setup.  If you've got a few different controllers and/or sound modules that can use USB for both MIDI and power, then you can have just a single USB cable connected to each device and eliminate some power supples rather than one or two MIDI cables plus the power cable.

 

For example (since this is a Numa thread), the Numa Compact 2x can run off USB power and act as a second keyboard for organ/synth.  Also there are many controllers like the Crumar drawbar and pedal controllers, almost all keyboard/button/knob type controllers, and some synth modules like the Roland Boutiques that can run purely off USB. 

 

[RandyFF]

14 hours ago, CHarrell said:

I have a 120 on the way! How do you feel about it vs the 110?

I say, why bother?  The ES110/120 is a pain to use- no decent UI, no screen, an entry level board that is frustrating to use.

 

A fair bit of money more, but if you like the keybed, the ES520 IS A MUCH BETTER deal.  You get a screen, reasonable interface, super nice speakers compared to having smaller, downward firing speakers, more of the high quality sounds, MIDI din sockets as well as BT Audio in as well as BT MIDI.  It's an altogether upgraded experience with a weight gain of only about 6 pounds.  Btw the improved speakers, sounds and UI, it's a huuuuuge improvement, and as much as I love the keybed, price and weight of the ES110/120, I would not buy such a compromised keyboard again, esp when you can get that keybed with the ES520. 

 

I'd only recommend the ES120 for folks that just can't afford more, and possibly pianists who plan on mainly practicing piano thru headphones.  The 120 is a big step up from the 110 with the SK-EX piano sound included.

 

And to be honest, to buy it again, I would get the ES520 over even the ES920!  Lighter weight, lower price, and it has my favorite keybed in it!

 

This is all a bit OT, but I consider it very relevant, just like talking so much about the competition for most folks, the CP series.  The reason I'm jumping ship from the ES920 to the Numa X 73 are a couple of things:

- I couldn't stand having only 2 sounds at once

- Really didn't like having only 38 sounds total to choose from

- I ABSOLUTELY ADORE being able to create programs so quickly, intuitively, this board was made for me!

 

The things I'll miss about the ES920:

- wonderful, superlative speakers, makes it easy to play anywhere

- the SX-EX piano sound is so superbly balanced and satisfying to play

[stoken6]

14 hours ago, kanefsky said:

Agreed, depending on the setup.  If you've got a few different controllers and/or sound modules that can use USB for both MIDI and power, then you can have just a single USB cable connected to each device and eliminate some power supples rather than one or two MIDI cables plus the power cable.

 

For example (since this is a Numa thread), the Numa Compact 2x can run off USB power and act as a second keyboard for organ/synth.  Also there are many controllers like the Crumar drawbar and pedal controllers, almost all keyboard/button/knob type controllers, and some synth modules like the Roland Boutiques that can run purely off USB. 

Don't fall into the trap of "thing A has USB, thing B has USB, therefore I can connect them together to achieve something". Every USB interaction requires one thing to be a "device" and one to be a "host. You cannot play a Roland Boutique from a Numa via USB, as they are both USB devices (only). Some keyboards can act as a USB host (MODX, Fantom, Kronos, RD88, Mojo I think, a few others) - and that's priceless for alleviating the kind of problems I would run into using a ES120.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[kanefsky]

47 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

Don't fall into the trap of "thing A has USB, thing B has USB, therefore I can connect them together to achieve something". Every USB interaction requires one thing to be a "device" and one to be a "host. You cannot play a Roland Boutique from a Numa via USB, as they are both USB devices (only). Some keyboards can act as a USB host (MODX, Fantom, Kronos, RD88, Mojo I think, a few others) - and that's priceless for alleviating the kind of problems I would run into using a ES120.

 

Both of the examples I listed (https://www.iconnectivity.com/mioxm and https://www.bome.com/products/bomebox) are able to act as a USB host for multiple USB devices without requiring any computer.  The mioXM has four built-in USB host ports and the BomeBox has one, plus you can add more USB host ports to either one by adding a standard USB hub.  There's also the mioXL which has 10 built-in USB host ports in a 1U rack form factor.  All of them also support 5-pin MIDI devices and MIDI over ethernet.

 

[stoken6]

3 hours ago, kanefsky said:

Both of the examples I listed (https://www.iconnectivity.com/mioxm and https://www.bome.com/products/bomebox) are able to act as a USB host for multiple USB devices without requiring any computer.

Correct - and both suffer from the disadvantages of extra cabling (and cost) I mentioned in my previous post. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[kanefsky]

9 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

Correct - and both suffer from the disadvantages of extra cabling (and cost) I mentioned in my previous post. 

 

As I pointed out, once you move past a couple of controllers/modules then you are using fewer cables and power supplies which can more than make up for having a small extra box.  USB can supply MIDI IN/OUT and also power to many devices with a single cable, whereas with 5-pin DIN you may need up to three cables and a power adapter for any given device.  So it depends on your setup, exactly as I said.

 

Also with 5-pin DIN you may need the extra box anyway since you can't always connect all your devices together just using the built-in ports and need some kind of MIDI hub or router.

 

[kenheeter]

I thought this thread was about the Numa X !

[kanefsky]

1 minute ago, kenheeter said:

I thought this thread was about the Numa X !

 

Now the thread is about what the thread is about

[RDM]

 

[kanefsky]

Cool video.  Amazing that he seemed to like the Numa action the least, when that keyboard outweighs the second-heaviest one (Casio) by 16 lbs (and that one has 4 built-in speakers).

 

Also note that they seem to consistently misidentify the Numa as the "Studiologic Numa X Piano 88" when it's clearly the GT model in the video.  Even the link to the product page in the description is wrong.

 

 

[RandyFF]

Not impressed.  Cool idea to do it blindfolded, but there's basic things like your preference of velocity curves, and with the SL, you also get keyboard sensitivity to further dial in what suits you.  If they could have done that (perhaps he's blindfolded with each keyboard and the Anderton guy does the adjusting till Mike Patrick says good; this could be done as a separate round, those settings saved, and then the real blindfold part comes).

 

So that's the most obvious and would go a long way, but  I'm also of the mind that no/few piano players are going to accept as is the fx/eq/basic settings for the sound, there's always some degree of personalization, which can make a huge difference in the final sound quality.  Testing sounds as they come stock out of the box benefits companies like Yamaha that apparently have gotten pretty good at setting up their sounds, whereas SL seems to require sound tweaking to get to basic satisfaction.

 

I'm surprised they used the Numa GT, the X 88 is more in the price range of the others.

[kanefsky]

1 minute ago, RandyFF said:

I'm surprised they used the Numa GT, the X 88 is more in the price range of the others.

 

Seems like they grabbed the wrong one off the shelf because they consistently refer to it as the X 88 and the link in the description goes to the X 88.  You'd think someone would have noticed the massive difference in weight between the GT and the others and either realize their error or at least comment on the weight difference.

 

[CyberGene]

I’ve seen that guy who is blindfolded in other videos and I’ve always been impressed with his jazz/gospel/pop piano playing. But what’s more impressive is I always thought something was not quite right with his right hand posture (no pun intended) and upon careful examination it seems he never uses his right pinky 😲 He uses his 4th finger as the highest finger. Wondering if it’s due to an injury or he is self-educated and learned to never use it but it’s even more impressive that he plays so well with 9 fingers. (And I’m sure he will play better than me even with two fingers for that matter 😀)

 

As to his preference for the other pianos over the Numa due to the touch response. Yeah, that’s my opinion too. It was my first impression with my 88 and later with the 73. I’ve learned to cope with it and they improved it further in one of the newer firmware versions but it’s still slightly awkward although in no way bad. It’s just it could be better. 

[CHarrell]

31 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

As to his preference for the other pianos over the Numa due to the touch response. Yeah, that’s my opinion too. It was my first impression with my 88 and later with the 73. I’ve learned to cope with it and they improved it further in one of the newer firmware versions but it’s still slightly awkward although in no way bad. It’s just it could be better. 

 

Just performed with the 88 last night, I suspect what he felt--even though I haven't played GT--is a kind of "mismatch" between the keybed and the onboard sounds. While they are better optimized to the keybed than external sounds, for the life of me I can't get a good velocity curve on the 88, 'cause it's kinda nothing when you first press down a key but then slam into the aftertouch halfway down, which takes up about a quarter of the key depth. In the case of the GT, I wonder if the keybed is technically "too good" for the sounds on default, or if it has a similar problem that I described on the 88.

[RandyFF]

4 hours ago, CyberGene said:

As to his preference for the other pianos over the Numa due to the touch response. Yeah, that’s my opinion too. It was my first impression with my 88 and later with the 73. I’ve learned to cope with it and they improved it further in one of the newer firmware versions but it’s still slightly awkward although in no way bad. It’s just it could be better. 

Yeah but... he was NOT playing an X, he was on a GT, which probably feels very different than the X.  Regardless, I have no interest in shootouts for semi-serious players when they don't go thru the process of adjusting the velocity curve and sound to your liking, something most of us do right away- it takes relatively little time and can make a huge difference in how a board feels and sounds to you.

[RandyFF]

On another note- I noticed in Numa Manager, even with all the extra sounds loaded in, that I still have 56% memory left!!!

 

Apparently SL doesn't make their sample format available, so everything has to come thru them and their library.  I just wrote to SL, expressing a desire for 3d parties to be able to load their samples in.  I suppose Nord takes it a step further and gives you the ability as the end user to load your own samples in- that'd be sweet!

 

I also wrote to our very own Busch regarding him porting his libraries over to the Numa Pianos.  He said, "There are no plans at this time to support the Numa.  I have heard good things about this keyboard and will look into t more. Thanks"

[AnotherScott]

16 hours ago, RandyFF said:

Apparently SL doesn't make their sample format available, so everything has to come thru them and their library.  I just wrote to SL, expressing a desire for 3d parties to be able to load their samples in.  I suppose Nord takes it a step further and gives you the ability as the end user to load your own samples in- that'd be sweet!

Simply supporting soundfonts, as a number of boards do, would accomplish both of those things.

[RandyFF]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

Simply supporting soundfonts, as a number of boards do, would accomplish both of those things.

But I understand they use an excellent compression scheme, no loss or low loss, which is how they get substantial pianos in under 100MB.  Uncompressed samples would gobble up the little memory left!  

 

Even if new samples needed to go thru them so they could apply the compression and put it in their format, that would be a huge selling point for them, having a library of sounds, even if some cost money.

[RandyFF]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

Simply supporting soundfonts, as a number of boards do, would accomplish both of those things.

I wrote to Gianni,

"I've downloaded all your samples from your library for the Numa X 73 piano, and there's 56% remaining memory! Will you make your sample format known so end users or companies that provide new samples can help fill up the 1 GB you've given us? 

 

Gianni's reply,

"I am not able to confirm a possible future update to allow custom samples to be installed.

The main reason: we use a special format, compressed and encrypted, which allows to make sounds with few MB while others need many GB for the same sound.

In addition, each sound we make also has data to insert it in the right place and family, besides the MIDI data to be recalled from external controls."

 

Thanks and regards !

Gianni Giudici

Studiologic Brand Manager

www.studiologic-music.com/artists/gianni_giudici/
www.giannigiudici-music.com

[AnotherScott]

Probably most if not all the manufacturers use proprietary compression for their samples. Many still make space available for uncompressed user samples. Sure, the space goes faster, but it's better than not having the ability at all. And companies are understandably not eager to make their compression system available to the public. 

[RandyFF]

Expression / Sweep Pedals

 

I wrote to Gianni,

I see you have 3 expression pedals that would work as a continuous/sweep/expression pedal, the VP25 and 27, as well as the FP/50.

I plan on buying the SLP3-D, which would give me a damper pedal plus an up/down for choosing programs.

 

The other two pedals I want to be continuous so that for one of them I could do things like a wha wha pedal, and the other could sweep thru parameters, like the fx send for an effect.

 

WHAT DO THE DIFFERENT SWEEP PEDALS DO, AND WHAT ARE THE SPECS? AFAIK, they are 10k ohm pedals?

? Difference btw VP25 and VP27? Why I'd want the FP/50 instead?

 

Just looking at them without knowing their pros/cons, I'd choose the FP/50 simply because it looks like it has a much much larger sweep range.

 

Gianni responded,

"We suggest to connect the SLP3-D to PED3 as also shown on the instrument back panel images, as it is specifically designed to be connected this way, 

We also suggest to connect Expression pedals to PED2 as almost all Factory Programs are already set accordingly.

 

VP25 has a different control curve and we suggest to either use VP27 or FP50 which are exactly the same (electronic wise) while the evident difference is the dimension, which makes the FP50 preferred by organists or stage and live gigs, as it might result the most stable pedal of its kind with greater control feeling.

 

They all are 10 ohms pedals, but pedals of other brands with the same value might not have the same and correct control curve, as we found with Roland's and others.

 

Please find below a link of a document on our Site where all pedals and instrument compatibility are cross-related.

PEDAL COMPATIBILITY

 

Let me know, thanks and regards !

Gianni Giudici

Studiologic Brand Manager

www.studiologic-music.com/artists/gianni_giudici/
www.giannigiudici-music.com

[Stefan011]

Is anybody using Numa for gigs using laptop and internal audio interface? Is it a reliable setup? Is there any noticable latency? Thanks!

[kenheeter]

I use the Numa X with my iPad and it works flawlessly.

[CHarrell]

59 minutes ago, Stefan011 said:

Is anybody using Numa for gigs using laptop and internal audio interface? Is it a reliable setup? Is there any noticable latency? Thanks!

 

It's mostly reliable when you're updated to the latest firmware...if not, you're in for a nasty surprise trying to get everything started. Latency was negligible in my times with it.

[Stefan011]

"mostly reliable" will do 🙂

[RandyFF]

Not sure about the reliability of the USB connection.  Used it on some ios instruments that've always been easy to connect to, esp Neo Soul Keys.  I could tell I was getting the audio portion cause playing the onscreen keyboard gave me sound thru the keyboard speakers, but MIDI was not being transmitted.

 

So I tried using the MIDI button, and switched from MIDI USB to MIDI DIN (it had already been on MIDI USB), and then switched it back to MIDI USB,  et voila, it worked.  Had this happen several times, it's apparently not reading the current status everytime, MIDI USB, as it should and needed to be reminded!

[RandyFF]

I've asked twice now and no one has responded- what expression/volume/sweep pedals work well with this board? 

 

Just ordered the StudioLogic EP-50 sweep pedal, $80, which has a large sweep range. I also called Sweetwater about the Moog EP-3 sweep pedal, and my guy confirmed that it worked well with the Numa Piano boards, AND, it has a pot for calibrating the range of sweep, AND, is $20 cheaper.  So when these arrive I'll do a compare/contrast. 

 

Wouldn't hurt to compile a list of sweep pedals that work well with these boards, esp given that after one pedal input goes to a sustain pedal (and you can use their 3 pedal board the SLP3-D for that, which also gives you a handy +/- for choosing programs), that leaves you two pedal inputs that ACCEPT SWEEP PEDALS! I like how they think!  There are pedals as cheap as $20, and if it worked as well, I'd rather that than pay $80 for the SL pedal!

[kenheeter]

I have used a Yamaha FC7 and a Roland EV30 successfully.

[RandyFF]

7 hours ago, kenheeter said:

I have used a Yamaha FC7 and a Roland EV30 successfully.

That's good to know!  Surprisingly, I've had terrible experiences with the FC7, a number of them stopped working, they're supposed to be a workhorse, and they've got some very useful, unique features.  I suspect it was the cord, most sweep and sustain pedal failures IME has been the cord, but I was busy with a move and just tossed them out!

 

 

 

[kanefsky]

Another blindfold comparison, more focused around stage pianos this time.  They were posted two weeks apart but apparently filmed back-to-back.

 

For whatever reason they didn't include a Studiologic in this group, but did include basically the same Casio as in the first group (which costs more mainly because it comes with a fancy stand, pedal unit, and color).

 

If nothing else, watch his reaction to the RD-2000 at 4:56