New Studiologic Numa X Piano

[Kilfo]

Hi all

Would someone be kinda enough to recommend me some headphones that they know for a fact work well with numa x piano, I know nothing of headphones but the ones I have are too quiet, id like open backs if possible (nice and loud)

Thanks in advance

[Stokely]

I haven't tried the Numa X, but in general that might be an impedance problem if yours work well normally but are too low with the Numa.  If your phones are good ones that you like, one approach you could take would be a small mixer/headphone amp.

As far as open-backed phones, I've got two sets from Massdrop:  58x (hd600) and 6xx (hd650).  Best deal around as far as I'm concerned, especially when they go on sale.   I'm not really sure they'd match well with the Numa however, especially the 6xx (they are a bit quiet with my current headphone outputs, being higher impedance, but not so much that it's a show-stopper.)   If impedance is the issue, then I'd guess you'd need phones with low impedance (or an amp that can drive them.)

[SLHQC]

On 1/12/2024 at 8:06 AM, Stefan011 said:

On the other hand EPs were disappointing at first. A was used to the great midrangey MkI by Purgatory Creek on Kurzweil. I like my sound more in the style of early Herbie so I rolled off the tines. Here the Mk I sounds rather dull with weak mids. But Mk II and Suitcase respond better and are pretty usable. At least to my ears. Any recommended settings?

Try inserting the "Warm Drive" effect into the first slot and dialing down the gain. You can then use the other two parameters as an eq of sorts.

[SLHQC]

On 2/16/2024 at 7:52 PM, TomKittel said:

 One thing I am missing badly is that velocity settings can’t be saved per program. Velocity can only be set globally. Hope they will fix that in a future update like Yamaha did with the YC series.

Agree with this. Most of the piano samples/models have vastly different dynamic responses and would benefit from being able to be saved per program. It makes a massive difference to the playability.

[Kentkeys]

On 3/18/2024 at 1:24 PM, Kilfo said:

Hi all

Would someone be kinda enough to recommend me some headphones that they know for a fact work well with numa x piano, I know nothing of headphones but the ones I have are too quiet, id like open backs if possible (nice and loud)

Thanks in advance

I’ve been very happy with Philips Fidelio X2HR phones - not specifically designed as studio phones but work well with the Numa X, and loud enough for me.

 

I don’t know where you are based, but in the UK Amazon has a good deal on the Philips headphones at the moment. May be similar deals in other countries. They also have Sennheiser HD 599 Special Edition phones at a similar price - another option for you which gets good reviews.

[TomKittel]

On 3/20/2024 at 2:33 AM, SLHQC said:

Agree with this. Most of the piano samples/models have vastly different dynamic responses and would benefit from being able to be saved per program. It makes a massive difference to the playability.

 

I asked Studiologic for this feature update. Here is their answer: “we got very few requests of this kind, probably because all internal Sounds already have specific velocity sensitivities according to the type of sounds.” 

 

If you like please send a request to info@studiologic-music.com and cc lorenzo.torregiani@studiologic-music.com

[Brad Kaenel]

On 2/20/2023 at 7:04 AM, CyberGene said:

@AnotherScott, here's a screenshot from the manual:

 

 

I wanted to follow-up on the usage of External MIDI zones, specifically in reference to a Global Setting that is present, but undocumented in the user manual:

 

MERGE IN: [OFF] [TO DIN] [TO USB]

 

This setting, when set TO USB, was the crucial missing link to enabling me to control an external MODULE with an external KEYBOARD, through the Numa X.

 

Many others have already reported how simple it is to add a modern iPad, as a sound source, to the Numa X. You simply connect the USB-B port on the NX to the USB-C port on the iPad, and then configure an EXTERNAL MIDI zone's "MIDI Port" setting as [MIDI USB]. Voile; MIDI flows to the iPad, audio flows back to the NX, over the same cable. You select and play the EXTERNAL MIDI zone exactly like a zone that plays one of the NX's internal voices.

 

This is a great feature, as long as you want to play the external zone using the NX's keyboard -- but I wanted to play it from an external keyboard controller, and still have the NX be the only "main out" for all of my audio.  I had already accomplished this in another way, by MIDI-connecting the external keyboard directly to the iPad and connecting the iPad's headphone output to the NX's built-in mixer. But that required "yet-another-cable", an iPad dongle to get at its audio (since modern ones don't have a headphone jack), and just required more moving parts than I'd prefer for live setup and performance.  What I wanted was to be able to play the iPad, from the external keyboard, through an EXTERNAL MIDI zone.

 

And here's where the MERGE IN and COMMON CHANNEL global settings come into play.

1. Select a preset on the NX where all 4 zones are assigned to an internal voice.
2. Set MERGE IN to [OFF].
3. Set COMMON CHANNEL to [OFF].  This assigns MIDI channel values of 1-4 to the NX zones 1-4, respectively.  You can still play all of the (unmuted) zones from the NX's keyboard, in the usual way.
4. Connect an external keyboard controller to the NX, using a standard 5-pin MIDI DIN cable. Set the controller's MIDI channel value to 4; you can now play the zone 4 internal voice from the external controller.
5. Set the controller's MIDI channel value to 3 (or 2, or 1); you can now play that zone's internal voice from the controller.
6. Connect the iPad and the NX using a USB-B-C cable, as described above.
7. Configure the software instrument on your iPad to use MIDI channel 6 (for example).
8. Likewise, set the controller's MIDI channel value to 6 (to match the iPad); play the controller -- you will hear no audio.
9. Set MERGE IN to [TO USB].
10. Now play the controller -- you will hear the audio from the iPad!
11. Set zone 4 on the NX back to internal voice; now you have access to 5 voices -- the 4 internal zones, plus the external connection to the iPad.

 

So you see, you can have it both ways. Connect to the iPad through a zone, and you have access to the real-time knobs to control whatever CC values you want to manipulate while playing.  Or, bypass the zones by connecting on a MIDI channel higher than 4, and you can still control the iPad instrument from anything available on the external keyboard AND still have the 4 internal zones available for playing from the NX's keyboard.

 

[juancubo]

Hello. I am wondering if you can play a midi sequence with 16 channels multi timbral. 

 

I have a bunch of sequence that I use to play from juno-di usb midi player feature or from a daw or any other computer midi player. I only see references to the 4 zones. 

[StickMan393]

After much research (and spreadsheeting!) I have reduced the options to one, and placed an order for a Numa X Piano 88. Arriving next week, hopefully. I'll report here with my review. Thanks for everyone for contributing to this thread; it helped.

[HammondDave]

10 hours ago, StickMan393 said:

After much research (and spreadsheeting!) I have reduced the options to one, and placed an order for a Numa X Piano 88. Arriving next week, hopefully. I'll report here with my review. Thanks for everyone for contributing to this thread; it helped.

That’s what I have. Love it. 

[Keepitsimple]

I remember playing that action on a Vivo S9 years ago. I noticed the black keys being "narrower" but i enjoyed playing it regardless.

 

Are the black keys technically narrower? I just want to make sure my memory is not cheating me.

[StickMan393]

Wow, the Numa X arrived out here in the SF Bay Area today. Sweetwater have a new warehouse in Phoenix AZ apparently.

 

I set it up on a temporary stand so that I could verify it was all in good shape. It was. The only thing I could detect prior to plugging it in and turning it on was that the lowest, left-most key has a bit of a "click". Did I recall reading an earlier post from someone who found the same "problem" and solved it by loosening one of the side panel screws? I will try that a bit later on and see if it helps. Not a big deal, to be honest.

 

Here are my random "hot takes" after 10 minutes of noodling:

• It's very light in comparison to the 65 lb tank that it is replacing, what a relief. I can move it around without risking damage to my back. CHECK.
• I'm glad I went for the 88-key model. The first time I hit that low D below E I realized I would have missed it. CHECK.
• This feels like a compact unit, despite the 88 keys. Again, no regrets choosing this over the 73.
• The keybed is... different. I was expecting - or hoping - for something with a lighter touch, to be honest. This is not a defect or anything, honestly. Not as snappy as the the RD-2000 I played with in the local music store. The RD-2000 was on my short list, and I loved the PHA-50 keybed, but I couldn't justify the cost, or the fact that it would not have met my weight criteria.
• Obviously,  I need to play longer and get used to the feel before delivering a conclusive review of the keybed, but simply put, it feels better than my old Roland A-80, but not dramatically so. (That A80 is not bad for a 35 year old keybed.)
• The headphone output seems fairly low, I had to turn the volume up 100% and I would have liked it louder. On the other hand, my ears are not what they used to be and normal folk would probably be fine with this.
• The pianos seem... ok. I can't find the Vintage Grand. Is this an optional, user loadable piano? I am probably spoiled by Pianoteq and I expect I won't be relying on the built-in pianos that much, to be honest. This is for my studio as my main controller.
• The firmware is 2.0.0.  I will research and think about updating to 2.3 which I think is the latest, but 2.0 should have the revised velocity/retrigger tweak, which I would definitely want to install before judging the keybed.
• I have not played with changing the keyboard sensitivity or velocity curves. In fact, I can barely figure out how to use the knobs. Am i that old that this just makes sense to young ones? I have the user help card that came with the unit but I have no idea what I'm doing. I can change patches or performances but that's about it. Clearly there's is some learning to do here. That's okay. Complexity is fine; I didn't learn to play a musical instrument in 5 minutes either.
• Dial up a guitar or clav patch and MY GOD does this keybed feel fantastic. What is it about the string pluck sounds that make this feel so expressive?
• I like the organ/hammond/jazz sounds. I know they are samples but they sound pretty good.
• I will never be able to perform hammond parts using this keybed. I can barely get a note to repeat with any rapidity. Some of this is my lousy piano technique, and some of it is just physical limitations of a very nice weighted hammer action keybed.

This probably comes across as a bit of a negative review but, far from it, I am very happy with this. I am not returning it.

[Brad Kaenel]

https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/numa_x_piano/

 

See “Sounds” and “Support” links. 

[CyberGene]

7 hours ago, StickMan393 said:

The only thing I could detect prior to plugging it in and turning it on was that the lowest, left-most key has a bit of a "click". Did I recall reading an earlier post from someone who found the same "problem" and solved it by loosening one of the side panel screws?

Yeah, that was me. I have the 73 and the rightmost key definitely hits one of the side screws. I’ve loosened that screw to solve it but some day I’ll get my hacksaw to shorten the screw 😀

[HammondDave]

Turn the keyboard sensitivity up in the global settings. Also, update the OS immediately. Very simple with NUMA Manager. 

[The_Star_Guy]

On 6/9/2024 at 1:25 PM, HammondDave said:

Turn the keyboard sensitivity up in the global settings. Also, update the OS immediately. Very simple with NUMA Manager. 

Agreed!   if you are on 2.0 that is still considered one of the original "basic" OS's.     Please update to the latest and also download some of the PIanos available in the Sounds section.   There are some decent character pianos there.

[StickMan393]

Help! I updated to firmware 2.3.1. yesterday.
Now the Numa X is misbehaving. Without any pattern that I can discern, zones are not responding to the keyboard. On P01, Zone 1 responds, which means I can hear the piano okay. But if I enable Zones 2-4, they don't respond. If I mute Zone 1, I hear nothing.

 

If I switch to P14 for example, I don't hear anything except Zone 3 (the bass+ride cymbal). All other zones are non-audible, whether muted or not.

 

It seems to be random which zone (if any!) will play back for any given Performance, but seems consistent between Performances, if that makes sense.

 

I've tried shutting down and powering up, no difference. Some zones just don't play. I have not tried involving MIDI zones or remote keyboards or anything at this point - just trying to play internal sounds. I don't believe this was a problem with the 2.0.0 firmware, I would have noticed it immediately.

 

I am tempted to downgrade the firmware back to 2.0.0 and see if I can get the old behavior back.

 

Has anyone experienced this? I don't recall reading about this earlier in the thread; but I may have missed it.

[voxpops]

I have the X 73 and have not experienced this issue. OS 2.3.1 is working pretty much flawlessly. I'm wondering if there was a glitch during the update process. It's always a nerve-wracking moment for me and so I make sure that the computer I'm using is plugged in and not using battery power, and that I'm not using any other app at the time.

 

One way or another I think you're going to have to try again. I'm attaching OS 2.2.0 and if you go back a few pages to https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/180089-new-studiologic-numa-x-piano/?do=findComment&comment=2974323 you'll find OS 2.1.1 that someone uploaded after a request from me as I worked through a few minor issues.

 

One other thing, in case you haven't found it yet, to change to the Vintage grand you simply press the piano button and scroll through the options until you find it. IIRC it's quite a way down the list.

 

Good luck!

X-PIANO_FW_UPDATE_2.2.0.bin

[CyberGene]

It’s worth trying to perform a factory reset to see if it can repair any eventual issues after the update. 

[DeltaJockey]

5 hours ago, StickMan393 said:

Help! I updated to firmware 2.3.1. yesterday.
Now the Numa X is misbehaving. Without any pattern that I can discern, zones are not responding to the keyboard. On P01, Zone 1 responds, which means I can hear the piano okay. But if I enable Zones 2-4, they don't respond. If I mute Zone 1, I hear nothing.

 

If I switch to P14 for example, I don't hear anything except Zone 3 (the bass+ride cymbal). All other zones are non-audible, whether muted or not.

 

It seems to be random which zone (if any!) will play back for any given Performance, but seems consistent between Performances, if that makes sense.

 

I've tried shutting down and powering up, no difference. Some zones just don't play. I have not tried involving MIDI zones or remote keyboards or anything at this point - just trying to play internal sounds. I don't believe this was a problem with the 2.0.0 firmware, I would have noticed it immediately.

 

I am tempted to downgrade the firmware back to 2.0.0 and see if I can get the old behavior back.

 

Has anyone experienced this? I don't recall reading about this earlier in the thread; but I may have missed it.

I did the update the other day, and it appeared to complete too quickly. It said it was done, so I rebooted and the keys weren't responding at all. In the end, I just ran the same updater again, it took way longer to complete. Once I rebooted, all was well. It sounds to me that you have to be careful the updater completes properly.

[b3plyr]

Sorry about the update problem. I have done all to date with no problems. Let Studiologic know - they have been very responsive in the past.

[StickMan393]

I will follow up with tech support, thanks guys, especially if the next few steps bring no joy.

 

To bring you up to speed: Last night I did a factory reset - it doesn't roll back to 2.0.0, it stays at 2.3.1, but after the factory reset, initially the zones worked as expected - yay! But then a few seconds later they dropped back to the "faulty" behavior, in mid performance. Ouch.

 

I did think about re-applying the firmware update, although when I did it before, it did take a long time (as warned in the release notes) and seemed to complete without issues.

 

I will try the 2.2.0 firmware (thank you VoxPops!) and see how it goes.

[StickMan393]

Downgrading to 2.2.0 succeeded; no indication that there was an error.

After a factory reset, followed by a power-down,power-on:

• P01 : Zone 2 will not sound (regardless of zone mute status) (Zones 1,3,4 seem ok)
• P02: Same as P01
• P03: Zones 2,3 will not sound (regardless of mute status)
• P04: Only Zone 4 will play back (I set it to ClassicGtr), the other Zones are silent regardless of muted state
• P05: Only Zone 2 and 4 will play back
• P06: Z1,3,4 ok, Z2 will not play back
• ...etc

Ok, I'll report back after hearing from support. Thanks for listening.

[StickMan393]

On 6/11/2024 at 9:16 AM, StickMan393 said:

Ok, I'll report back after hearing from support. Thanks for listening.

 

Alas, the Numa X and I could not work out our differences; I have returned the unit.

 

 

[HammondDave]

3 hours ago, StickMan393 said:

 

Alas, the Numa X and I could not work out our differences; I have returned the unit.

 

 

Sounds like you got a lemon. I have had mine since they came out, updated the OS regularly, and never experienced the issues you did.  

[voxpops]

I just sent a bug report to Studiologic that included the following:

 

Quote

I have discovered an anomaly that only seems to affect the Italian Grand piano. When half-pedalling using a Roland DP10, the notes E4-G#4 (the group above middle C) damp when the pedal is around 90%-95% depressed, whereas the other notes continue to sustain - in other words these notes sound almost staccato during a part-damped run. (I assume that this is a stretch-tuned group sharing the same characteristics.) Unfortunately, this renders the Italian Grand piano tone almost unusable with a half-pedal, as the damping is inconsistent when playing.

It would be interesting to hear whether others have a similar experience with the Italian Grand. Until recently, I've not had occasion to use this particular piano tone, but found it ideal for a specific project and was surprised to discover this anomaly, as it suggests that half-pedaling may not be applied as a universal "effect."

[CyberGene]

I also use Roland DP10 and have found that it barely works as a half-pedal and only with one of the settings because it starts producing non-zero values even when you put your foot on it without pressing it. I guess the curve is not optimized for it which may lead to other issues as the described one. Usually a half-pedal should produce 0-127 within a small region near the middle of the travel, not across the entire travel.

[AnotherScott]

5 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Usually a half-pedal should produce 0-127 within a small region near the middle of the travel, not across the entire travel.

 

Are you sure? I could be wrong, but I thought a continuous pedal would typically use most of the travel (similar to an expression pedal), and that it might be up to the board to map the values accordingly (e.g. values 0 through 20 might all map to sustain fully off). This could also be important because half-dampering is not necessarily the only reason one might want to use this kind of sustain pedal, there are other useful functions such a pedal can conceivably be mapped to, where having the entire operational travel limited to a small band in the middle might not be desirable. I've done that kind of mapping, and it seemed to work as I expected, implying a "full travel" variation in values (or close to it), though it was a long time ago, and I also couldn't tell you what pedal I was using. Maybe it had a small area of "non responsiveness" at the extremes, but it did not feel like "everything happened close to the center," as far as I can recall.

[CyberGene]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

Are you sure?

Not really. I believe I measured one of my digital pianos that did so, but can’t remember which, could be my N1X which is too specialized piano to be a norm but I will measure it again to be sure. Or it could be the Kawai ES7 that did it… On a well regulated acoustic piano half pedaling is happening within a very narrow pedal travel region around the middle, however you’re right that for a more universal stage piano the entire travel should be utilized, so that it can be used to control other functions smoothly. But in any case, the DP-10 lacks any buffer zones at both ends, it produces values immediately and that could already be clashing with what the piano engine is expecting. 

[CyberGene]

@AnotherScott I found my notes and measurement from when I was making Cybrid (my own DIY hybrid piano). At the time I measured both the included F10H pedal that comes as standard with my Kawai ES7, as well as the optional triple pedal that is part of the optional stand assembly.

 

Both have around 20mm of travel (when measuring at the tip of the pedal). For simplicity of the following data, let's assume that at rest they stay exactly 20 mm above the floor and when fully pressed they touch the floor at 0 mm

 

When you start pressing the pedal down

 

First non-zero value is generated at the following height above the floor:

• triple-pedal: 15 mm
• F10H: 14 mm

Max value of 127 (I'm actually measuring voltage, not MIDI, see below) is generated at the following height above the floor:

• triple-pedal: 11 mm
• F10H: 10 mm

Seems like both pedals generate 0-127 within a region that is 4 mm wide out of total travel of 20mm which is 20% of travel. Max value of 127 is generated exactly at middle which is consistent with acoustic pianos (i.e. dampers fully lifted and strings vibrating freely, and I guess by an extension simple binary sustain pedals that are modeled to generate on/off signal at the middle of the travel).

 

Not sure about other brands and implementations and I have still not measured the Yamaha N1X but I wouldn't expect for it to be any different taking in mind how much more specialized piano it is. It would be interesting what other implementations of half-pedaling there is.

 

P.S. Forgot to mention that the Kawai ES7 was producing only four discrete MIDI values for sustain, I haven't recorded the exact MIDI values, probably 0, 127 and two in between. So, in order to analyze the behavior, I have instead measured the voltage that is produced by the pedals, it's a gradual change between 0V and 3.3V.