Organ-Playing Motif Users, I Need Your Advice

[MathOfInsects]

I am doing a fly-in organ-trio gig this weekend. I put in a list of requests/options for boards, but just got word that this is the complete set of backline options:

 

YAMAHA MOTIF XS7

YAMAHA MOTIF XS8

YAMAHA MOTIF XF8

 

I am playing LH bass, and most songs are organ tunes, though a couple are AP/EP. BL does not allow computers and the like onstage, so I cannot use the board as a controller.

 

I have a Vent II and OB Dave's drawbar controller.

 

What think you. Will this be sufficient? If I go for a two-board set-up with the 7 and either of the 8s, will I get everything I need? Could I do LH bass on an organ patch on the 8, send an organ patch on the 7 through the Vent and drawbar-controller, then also use the 8 for EP/AP tunes when I need them? (I don't need a separate LH bass patch for EP/AP tunes, BL prefers to keep those organic to the instrument.)

 

The other option is checking a board, so I am hoping you who know these boards will assure me it's not worth the cost.

 

Any help/advice greatly appreciated.

[U.Honey]

BL does not allow computers and the like onstage, so I cannot use the board as a controller.

 

That sounds weird. What is BL?

[MathOfInsects]

Bandleader.

[stoken6]

Do you have a Hammond SK1, Electro or similar that you could take as carry-on and not have to check it into the hold? (Yamaha Reface YC and pretend it's a module?)

 

I would not recommend running two separate organ patches (lower/upper) as you'll need a mixer to combine them to send to the vent. (EDIT: Motifs have audio-in, but if you're not familiar with how to route the audio, it's still a timewaster).

 

Where is the gig? I wonder if you could come to a mutually-agreeable commercial arrangement to source a board from a local friendly KCer...

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Ulf]

BL does not allow computers and the like onstage, so I cannot use the board as a controller.

 

I can kind of understand that position (as I have had my share of problems when using my mac for keys), but in this case bringing the computer seems booth safer and quicker. And if going for the look of things on stage I'm not sure a bunch of Motifs are any better.

 

 

[RobP2]

BL does not allow computers and the like onstage, so I cannot use the board as a controller.

 

That sounds weird. What is BL?

 

I'm afraid I have no useful advice for the OP, but this caught my eye. I just wondered, does the BL use a music stand with words on or any kind of prompter?

 

[DanL]

I'd use the XS7 with the unweighted keys.

[CEB]

Fly in. Bring a Vent. Have a nice meal. Play the backlined XS7. Do a category search and assign the best organ patches in Master Mode. Get paid. It will be fine.

[Synthoid]

Fly in. Bring a Vent. Have a nice meal.

 

I like this part.

 

 

http://saltydogboatingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Steak-Lobster-640x427.jpg

[Doerfler]

Fly in. Bring a Vent. Have a nice meal. Play the backlined XS7. Do a category search and assign the best organ patches in Master Mode. Get paid. It will be fine.

 

Excellent advice.

[Bobadohshe]

Fly in. Bring a Vent.

 

Cosigned.

 

Or check a board though I'm not quite sure what you have. I wouldn't be too freaked out about checking an SK1 for instance as it's a light board and as long as you packed it well I'd say you'd probably be okay.

[fjzingo]

Don't know how good ipad or iphone apps are for hammond, if any good you can put it on top of the motif and pretend its the screen :-)

 

You must put you're mobile somewhere, right?

 

Else I agree with the above fly in, play the xs7, get paid!

[mate stubb]

Will this be sufficient?

 

No. For an organ trio, bring an organ. Otherwise, turn your brain off, endure the hideousness, and remember that tomorrow is another day.

[Stokely]

I've only owned the original Motif, but my impression is that the nwer Motifs haven't greatly improved the organ capabilities.

 

The leslie "effect" on mine was truly horrendous. I have some recordings--rock stuff only--where the sound was passable, but no way would I let the fast leslie stay on very long. In your case you have a much better option providing hooking it up and bypassing for non-organ sounds is easy (I've never used a vent or similar pedal).

 

Too bad Yamaha hasn't tried to develop their own organ modelling along the lines of their main competitors. It can't be that difficult to at least get to where Roland is with the VR organs and Korg is with the cx-3...can it? They obviously don't feel the cost is worth the reward. I personally really liked my Motif but the lack of good organ sound was a big reason I sold it. I suppose I'm in a small market segment unfortunately.

[Threadslayer]

I've only owned the original Motif, but my impression is that the nwer Motifs haven't greatly improved the organ capabilities.

 

The leslie "effect" on mine was truly horrendous. I have some recordings--rock stuff only--where the sound was passable, but no way would I let the fast leslie stay on very long. In your case you have a much better option providing hooking it up and bypassing for non-organ sounds is easy (I've never used a vent or similar pedal).

 

Too bad Yamaha hasn't tried to develop their own organ modelling along the lines of their main competitors. It can't be that difficult to at least get to where Roland is with the VR organs and Korg is with the cx-3...can it? They obviously don't feel the cost is worth the reward. I personally really liked my Motif but the lack of good organ sound was a big reason I sold it. I suppose I'm in a small market segment unfortunately.

Agree with the previous two replies. The Motif organs are OK for a general business type gig, where the organ is used as one of many bread and butter sounds, but playing only Motif organ patches all night in a trio would be painful.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

iPad with Korg Module app, audio out cable, Camera Connector Kit (which is USB to the Lightning jack on the iPad), USB MIDI out from the board. If you have a recent iPhone with enough room for the app, that works too.

You do not have drawbar control, but there are some fine sounding patches. Leslie on it is very good (speed can be changed by footswitch). Get the Hammond/Leslie add-in, you will have about 20 organ patches to choose from. You can do all of this for less than $100 including buying the needed cables.

 

I use an older iPad 3 with Module and the various in-app purchases VERY frequently as a sound module for times I need something very easy to carry. Also have it on my iPhone 6 and an iPad Mini.

 

There is another very good iPad app names Galileo, I have it also. Like the Korg Leslie better, but Galileo allows setting up drawbars and changing them by MIDI.

 

Don't forget to fully charge the iPad - I have run 2.5 hours and still had about 80% battery. Set it in Airplane Mode, set the screen for lowest brightness you can use and so it does not go to the lock screen. The screen allows changing patches. I am assuming that the Motif DOES have USB MIDI.

 

[aellison62]

iPad with Korg Module app, audio out cable, Camera Connector Kit (which is USB to the Lightning jack on the iPad), USB MIDI out from the board. If you have a recent iPhone with enough room for the app, that works too.

You do not have drawbar control, but there are some fine sounding patches. Leslie on it is very good (speed can be changed by footswitch). Get the Hammond/Leslie add-in, you will have about 20 organ patches to choose from. You can do all of this for less than $100 including buying the needed cables.

 

I use an older iPad 3 with Module and the various in-app purchases VERY frequently as a sound module for times I need something very easy to carry. Also have it on my iPhone 6 and an iPad Mini.

 

There is another very good iPad app names Galileo, I have it also. Like the Korg Leslie better, but Galileo allows setting up drawbars and changing them by MIDI.

 

Don't forget to fully charge the iPad - I have run 2.5 hours and still had about 80% battery. Set it in Airplane Mode, set the screen for lowest brightness you can use and so it does not go to the lock screen. The screen allows changing patches.

 

This is great advice!

[AnotherScott]

Don't know how good ipad or iphone apps are for hammond, if any good you can put it on top of the motif and pretend its the screen :-)

If you can get away with it, I think that's the best solution, MoI, if you happen to already own (or can borrow) an iphone or ipad (pref Mini since stealth is an issue). Yes, there are apps that will give you a better organ sound than the Motif, including ones that will work with your OB drawbars. I would think that a good amount of double-sided tape would be strong enough to get you through one gig, while not being so velcro-strong that you couldn't easily remove the remnants when you're done. The bigger visual issue (than the pretty inconspicuous presence of the device laid on the Motif) may be the wires... you'll need to MIDI it to the Yamaha (if you already own a USB-style MIDI interface, you should be able to use that with Apple's "Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter"), and you'll need to run an audio cable from the 1/8" headphone out of the i-device to the 1/4" in of your Vent. (You could conceivably get away without the Vent, but then it may be more obvious to other people that you're running sound out of your phone/tablet...)

 

Either that, or maybe this is the perfect time to pick up that Gemini Desktop Module you probably wanted anyway.

 

http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=43

 

Otherwise, yeah, I'd be inclined to suck it up and just play the rompler organ patches in the Yamaha. 95% of the audience won't know the difference anyway.

 

 

[Bobadohshe]

I am assuming that the Motif DOES have USB MIDI.

 

Sadly no. Not class compliant anyway.

[AnotherScott]

There is another very good iPad app names Galileo, I have it also. Like the Korg Leslie better, but Galileo allows setting up drawbars and changing them by MIDI.

Yes. But also, if real-time drawbar manipulation is not important, GarageBand has a great organ, it's cheaper than Module and I think has lower system requirements which may make it more stable if running on an older i-device. But since MoI mentioned bringing a drawbar module, I think it's safe to assume he'd like to have that, so that brings us back to the likes of Galileo. You're right about it's unspectacular Leslie sim, but again, MoI says he's up for bringing a Vent, so problem solved. The bigger issue is "BL does not allow computers and the like onstage" so it comes down to whether he can get away with the computer-like i-device at all.

 

Don't forget to fully charge the iPad

Yes, but also, I would suggest the newer version of the Camera Connection Kit you mentioned, the "Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter" -- though I haven't yet tried that one personally, it should do the same thing, but allow you to also keep the charger plugged in.

 

ETA: As for the USB out of the Motif, I'm not sure... they're not fully class compliant, but they sometimes do work for things on the i-devices anyway, despite the inability to load Yamaha's custom drivers. If it doesn't work, you'd use the DIN MIDI out jack with the usual MIDI-to-USB computer interface which most people probably have hanging around anyway.

[roygBiv]

Agree - iPad/iPhone app (Galileo/Module/Garage band) + cables (MIDI-to-USB cable + Camera Connection kit, 1/8" to 1/4 audio cable back into Motif) + Vent.

 

All your base are belong to you. Fits in a small bag. Bring it with you, feel calm on flight there, arrive, decide screw all this and just use the Motif.

 

BUT at least you have options - I find that very important for my mental health status, such as it is.

[U.Honey]

If the band leader says no computers on stage then iPad is not an option, right? iPad is a computer. Anyways, I would probably try to explain the situation to the band leader. He might understand.

 

I think you'll be fine with the Motifs specially if you're bringing a ventilator. Your problem is going to be finding patches that you like. I would suggest reserving some time for that.

[Threadslayer]

Agree - iPad/iPhone app (Galileo/Module/Garage band) + cables (MIDI-to-USB cable + Camera Connection kit, 1/8" to 1/4 audio cable back into Motif) + Vent.

Speaking for myself only, flying in to a one-off gig with an unfamiliar rig like the one described here ^^^^ would scare me to death.

arrive, decide screw all this and just use the Motif.

OK. Now I feel better

[Delaware Dave]

sounds like you need this: link

[MathOfInsects]

Sorry to post and run--teaching day today. I will respond later, but thanks for all the helpful input. No ipads/computers/etc onstage. If I can hide a phone, that might work, but I don't have any time to play around--we go from the airport to a bus to soundcheck. More later, and thanks again.

[MIDI2XS]

[...] BL does not allow computers and the like onstage, [...]

If so, then perhaps you can get the backline options revised. After all, most recent keyboards are basically dedicated computers - the Motif XS/XF have a 64-bit RISC main processor running Linux.

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

Agree - iPad/iPhone app (Galileo/Module/Garage band) + cables (MIDI-to-USB cable + Camera Connection kit, 1/8" to 1/4 audio cable back into Motif) + Vent.

The audio cable should go into the Vent. From there it would more likely go directly to FOH rather than back into the Motif, though that is also possible. You wouldn't go from the iPhone to the Motif and then to the Vent. If you're using other Motif sounds, you probably don't want those to be going through the Vent. And if you're not using other Motif sounds (so only using it as a controller), no need to add another step.

[AnotherScott]

Speaking for myself only, flying in to a one-off gig with an unfamiliar rig like the one described here ^^^^ would scare me to death.

 

If I can hide a phone, that might work, but I don't have any time to play around--we go from the airport to a bus to soundcheck.

 

You'd definitely want to do a dry run at home using some existing keyboard in place of the Motif that will be at your destination. If you're comfortable with it, then when you get to the venue, you just do the same thing you did at home, except using the Motif's MIDI Out instead of your own board's. It does not have to be an unfamiliar setup.

[Bill H.]

Fly in. Bring a Vent.

 

I'm with CEB and the consensus. Not your problem. You are working with what's presented you, and under the BL's restrictions.

 

I'd let him know beforehand that this isn't going to be optimal so he's not unpleasantly surprised onstage that night. Maybe he'll spring for a better backline.

 

But that's his decision to make, not yours.

[AnotherScott]

If you intend to run the Motif tonewheel organ presets through the Vent, you'll likely want to turn the Motif insert fx off, so you don't put its Leslie effect through the Vent's Leslie effect