Advice Needed: Controller Keyboards for MIDI Sound Modules

[ScottKahn]

Need some advice: I'm looking for a MIDI controller keyboard - 61 keys, synth action (not weighted) - for controlling a few sound modules in my rack and maybe some soft synths on my laptop.

 

It seems like all the new controllers are so focused on computer integration and playing virtual instruments that they barely work as stand-alone controllers on which you can set up splits and layers with different devices on different MIDI channels. I don't always want/need to have my laptop in my live rig, but I do have some rack-mounted Roland and Korg sound modules I want/need to use.

 

It seems like the Akai MPK61 accommodates this, but only has 30 presets, and I didn't love the feel of the keys. I don't care about 50 sliders, 20 pads, etc... just fast and easy control of setting up splits/layers with outboard gear.

 

AND... what would your top 2-3 picks be for an old/used controller if you don't think any of the new stuff fits the bill?

 

Thanks!

Scott

 

 

[Sven Golly]

If you hadn't specified 61 keys, I'd have suggested a Roland A-70 (if you could find one in good condition, perhaps with a recent key contact replacement done). 76 keys, but gives you the features you're looking for.

 

If you hadn't specified synth action and 61 keys, I'd have strongly recommended the new Physis K5 master controller. This thing is a beast and a MIDI studio owner's wet dream (if you'll pardon that particular turn of phrase). 8 physical 5-pin MIDI connections, 4 USB-to-Host connections, and a ton of other features.

 

However, back on topic, given your requirements, the perfect solution for you would be a Kurzweil PC3-61; arguably the best MIDI controller implementation of any 61-key synth, and you might be able to get a good deal on one on the used market. Ignore the fact that it's also a synth/workstation, although that might be a good bonus for you.

[stoken6]

Hi ScottKahn,

 

What's your budget? The PC361 is a great board, but not the cheapest.

 

Older high-end/midrange keys are worth considering. I have an old Alesis QS6.2 which has plenty of controller features, and a decent keybed. (I don't know the midi capabilities of most of the others!)

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Tom Williams]

I'm mostly content with my M-Audio Axiom 61: only 20 presets, but each has 4 independent zones, and since I generally prefer multiple 'boards to splits, that translates to 80 setups.

 

I purchased it last year, used, excellent condition, from GC for under $200 US.

 

I use mine mostly to drive a K2500 rack. It's particularly effective for KB3 (tonewheel model) programs.

 

Pros: velocity and aftertouch, a boatload of controllers (9 reversible sliders, 9 buttons, 8 knobs, 8 velocity- and pressure-sensitive pads). Programming is pretty easy (subjective).

 

Cons: mine has a slightly clacky action; only one each CC pedal and switch pedal. No enter key for manual patch changes; you wait for numeric entries to time out.

[Losendoskeys]

Roland XP30 would complement your racked Rolands me-thinks.....if you can find one at a reasonable price as they are popular.

[AnotherScott]

Need some advice: I'm looking for a MIDI controller keyboard - 61 keys, synth action (not weighted) - for controlling a few sound modules in my rack and maybe some soft synths on my laptop.

...

I don't care about 50 sliders, 20 pads, etc... just fast and easy control of setting up splits/layers with outboard gear.

Since people are mentioning boards with sounds as well, depending on how you like to work, a Yamaha MOXF6 (or its predecessor MOX6 which you can probably find well priced used) can be a nice controller, while also providing some good sounds of its own.

 

One aspect of the MOX that is particularly useful as a controller (again, depending on how you like to work) is that you can set up its 16 buttons to correspond to the 16 MIDI channels. Directly turning MIDI channels on and off from 16 buttons can be useful, and there aren't too many boards that do that these days. This works well, for example, with a Roland Integra-7 module, where each of its sound sets are created by assigning sounds to the 16 channels. You can then use the Yamaha front panel buttons to select from among the 16 sounds you have loaded into your Integra sound set. (I haven't tried this myself, but this is how I understand it to work.)

 

Also, using Yamaha's "Master" mode, you can set up splits and layers of up to four of your MIDI sounds. You can store 128 of these, and they are easily recallable directly from front panel buttons (no scrolling). You can also define the MIDI function of 8 front panel knobs for each of your stored Master programs.

[RABid]

Summing up what we have so far, for a controller that will do splits, zones, and send program changes over multiple MIDI channels a used ROMpler/workstation usually does more than cheap controllers.

 

I really like my Roland/Edirol 61 key controller when working with VSTi's or a single rack, but my Fantom X blows it away when controlling multiple MIDI devices. The problem is size and weight.

[resigned]

A lot of controllers seem to be designed more for controlling DAWS than for controlling softsynths and modules. One controller that is especially made for controlling softsynths, and it includes a library of them, is the Arturia KeyLab 61. Seems to be well made too. I haven't tried one yet but it appears to be among the cream of the crop in 61-note controllerland.

 

http://www.arturia.com/evolution/assets/images/products/KeyLab61/keylab61_650.png

[Delaware Dave]

Novation Impulse, 61 key version. The keybed action isn't the greatest though.

[Tonysounds]

If you want a Roland A70, let me know (PM me). A friend of mine has 3 for sale, and you can get into it for under $400 I'm sure, and probably even less.

[CEB]

OF the $500 and less new stuff. The Arturia is OK. The Novation SL MK II has a good action.

 

A Roland A-70 in good working order would slay anything available today.

[dongna]

Anyone have any comment on the Edirol PCR800? It would appear to have everything the OP is looking for (as am I, coincidentally). I specifically like the 9 faders for organ control. And from reading reviews it would appear to have a better keyboard action and higher build quality than the typical 61-key (or less) controller available new today.

 

But I have never played one so I don't speak from first hand experience.

[Tonysounds]

Anyone have any comment on the Edirol PCR800? It would appear to have everything the OP is looking for (as am I, coincidentally). I specifically like the 9 faders for organ control. And from reading reviews it would appear to have a better keyboard action and higher build quality than the typical 61-key (or less) controller available new today.

 

But I have never played one so I don't speak from first hand experience.

 

I don't believe the Edirol has the ability to set up splits/layers and save set-ups.

[RABid]

The PCR-800 will do a split or layer, but it will not save that information in a patch.

[Sven Golly]

There seems to be a recurring theme of late here on KC... only reading/comprehending a portion of a poster's requests.

 

So far only about a third of the responses to this thread actually address the OP's full set of requirements.

 

What's up with that?

[CEB]

The controller market is dead. If he can find a A-70 jump on it. More keys are better for splits anyway.

 

If he spends the money for a full blown workstation he may not need the modules..... which is what I assumed killed the module and controller market to begin with.

[Dana.]

There seems to be a recurring theme of late here on KC... only reading/comprehending a portion of a poster's requests.

Minor fix.

 

[stillearning]

FWIW, I've been using an A70 for years, and like it so much, I've been on the lookout for another, just to have a back-up. Very nice feel to the keybed, IMO. Love the four MIDI outs too.

[allan_evett]

As a 61-key controller, the Arturia Keylab 61 could work. It has 200 user slots for storing combinations. Two caveats, though: it's a two zone setup, so single split or layer; the MIDI programming must be done via computer software. Arturia does advertise it as a controller for both software and hardware devices, though. For hardware users that depends on how many zones are needed. And if the preference is for front panel control set up, then the Keylab 61 is not the best choice. But if two zones and computer assisted setup are OK, the Keylab series offers a lot of benefits.

 

The A-70 fits the job description better, IMO; straightforward, with everything on the front panel. However it's not 61 keys. But if the OP has the room for 76 keys, it's a fantastic live controller. I've owned two A-70's; also the Keylab 61. A Keylab 76, with four zones, would be my choice of controller; but the industry doesn't custom build to the individual player.

 

Sven's idea of the Kurzweil PC361 seems to hit closest. It's compact, 61-keys, and an uber-powerful controller. The only concern might be the extra cost of the Kurzweil instrument included - as it's a full blown synth. But if cost isn't a major concern, that sound engine is a big plus.

[miden]

A lot of controllers seem to be designed more for controlling DAWS than for controlling softsynths and modules. One controller that is especially made for controlling softsynths, and it includes a library of them, is the Arturia KeyLab 61. Seems to be well made too. I haven't tried one yet but it appears to be among the cream of the crop in 61-note controllerland.

 

http://www.arturia.com/evolution/assets/images/products/KeyLab61/keylab61_650.png

 

This one

[ScottKahn]

Thanks everyone! Lots of interesting advice here. Very impressed by people who notes my specific requirements :-). I've mostly been thinking about weight/transport savings... right now I'm using my old Korg 01/W Pro 76-key as a controller, which is functionally ok except that it doesn't send bank select messages, but I don't need its onboard sounds as my main keyboard is the Korg Kronos X.

 

In my rack are a Korg Wavestation AD and Roland XV-3080, and on top of it is a Macbook with some soft synths. My remote control needs are basic... just need easy access to set up splits or layers on those two modules, and the laptop.

 

For my synth action keyboard, in replacing the 01/W Pro, I'm looking for lightweight, 61 keys ideally but maybe 76... keys should feel as good as the pro synths from Korg/Roland/Yamaha, who have my favorite keyboard feel. Many of the cheap controllers feel soft/spongy/sluggish to me.

 

The Roland certainly sounds like one I need to check out... plus maybe the KeyLab.

 

Thanks all!

 

[CEB]

The Keylab's action is not that bad. It is actually decent.

 

The Novation Mk II-61 is better but it is geared toward DAW control. Again none of these will compare to an A-70. None of these actions are probably going to be as good as what is in the 01.

[rod76]

Miditech?

 

I'm unsure about the quality of the keybeds or layer functions but their i2-61 model looks like something I could use.

 

 

[EscapeRocks]

Scott,

 

I have read all your requirements, but wanted to add something from my personal experience. Someone mentioned an MOX6. Yes, it has on board sounds. However, it is a wonderful Master controller. Also, it is it's own audio interface. This is very useful when controlling laptop synths with it. it even has it's own fader.

 

I use one in conjunction with a Roland FA08 and a MacBook pro running Mainstage.

 

You can find some great deals on older or used MOX6 out there (not MOXF..the new version).

 

Just a thought as using the MOX would cut down on more outboard hardware to get your rig working as you describe.

 

Now that 99 percent of sounds I use on gigs come from my FA08 I had considered getting a dedicated 61 note controller. However, I like having the MOX as a backup on gigs. I can easily switch to it should something go awry with my laptop.

[Reezekeys]

If you're mostly into weight & transport savings, unfortunately the Roland A800 may be the best bet if you're just interested in going the controller route (i.e. not get a keyboard with sounds like others here have suggested). I say unfortunately because although it has IMO the best feeling synth action of the ~$350 controllers, aftertouch, and a good deal of assignable controllers (pads, buttons, sliders, etc.), it completely drops the ball (again IMO) when it comes to a few key items: the LCD sucks (it's small, all the way on the left, and you can't see the rightmost characters while you play), the transposing function is just stupid (I wonder if this will start the flamethrowers like it did the first time I mentioned it ), and perhaps most important to you, the ability to set multiple different split/layer setups and have them easily accessible is not there. Also, Roland forgot to include the "panic" function that every controller (including Roland's previous ones) had. Not "deliberately left it out", they forgot (i.e., it's described in the manual but doesn't exist confirmed by Roland Japan).

 

Except for the LCD, none of this matters to me because I use the keyboard exclusively with a laptop rig that can compensate for these shortcomings. I stick with the A800 because of the good number of controllers, the light weight, the decent build quality (except for the USB jack which eventually loses its grip I've soldered in a new one), and most importantly the keyboard feel and its 12 velocity options (3 settings "light", "medium" & "hard" each with four velocity curves). That tips the scales for me, but if another manufacturer comes out with a controller that's as light and good-feeling as the A800 Pro and addresses the negatives I've pointed out, it'll be on Ebay very quickly! HTH

[ScottKahn]

The A70 looks awesome but weighs the same as my 01/W Pro -- around 35 pounds. I was reading the manual on the A800 today and couldn't believe it... does it not actually save presets once you make your bank select and program changes? I couldn't find any reference to actually saving your presets. Clearly it's not in the same league as the A70 was...

 

The Arturia Keylab 61 looks like it MIGHT fit the bill. I don't mind creating my splits/layers in a software editor as long as I have easy access to directly calling up my saved patches from the keyboard... and I'm a fan of their soft synths... I have the V Collection on my studio Mac. But really, the priority is easy control of my rack-mounted Roland and Korg sound modules...

 

 

[Reezekeys]

The A800 Pro has 19 presets that store the controller assignments. You can assign buttons to send program changes. You can also assign a slider to send a range of PC changes, and of course all that info is saved as part of an assignment. In addition, the knob at the top left can send program changes so you can quickly dial up a PC but good luck nailing the exact number (and if your eyes are like my old ones, you'll have to lean in and to the left to see what you're doing!). At least the pot has slight "click" indents.

 

Presets are loaded & saved only with a computer. You can modify a preset on the keyboard itself, but if you change to a different one the edits are lost. Switching between presets is pretty easy using the same rotary dial I mentioned above, with the same caveats as to nailing the one you want. If you're playing a tune that requires a quick preset change in the middle, good luck.

 

It's pretty obvious that Roland means this keyboard to be sitting in someone's home studio, not on a gig. As I said, none of these particular limitations bother me because my custom-programmed Bidule setup on my MacBook Pro takes care of preset switching, midi routing, and all parameter control.

 

One thing that's pretty hip is that you can program & assign Roland sysex to the controllers. There's even a "free" midi message (i.e. send any midi message you want). This feature might be unique to the A-pros, I've looked at other manuals for keyboard controllers in this range and haven't seen it. I carry an old Roland JV1010 module in case the computer craps out (used it once in about 8 years). I programmed a setup on my A-Pro to work the JV.

[Kenny Ingram]

As a controller that meets all your requirements, I would recommend the Roland A800 Pro.

 

- 61 keys synth action keys

- 2 MIDI Outs (for two modules), and a USB out for laptop integration

- Lots of knobs and sliders for control over sounds

[Reezekeys]

I'm not sure I'd call what I've posted here a full-on recommendation!

 

And if you read the OP's first post, you'll see that the A800 really doesn't meet all his requirements.

[CEB]

The controller market just sucks. There are some reasonable options for 88s. But for a new hardware module controller the 61 options suck. Too bad. There are some nice hardware modules still floating around.

 

You can still find new CME UF60s but I can't recommend that. Too many people had bad problems. But Steve Nathan can tell you anything you want to know about the UF series.