Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[DanL]

Is anyone panning hard left and hard right on their mixer controls for the keyboards?

 

I'm using a line mixer that has stereo inputs on each channel, so I don't pan anything hard, I leave it in the center and let the patch do it's thing. I have some stuff panned pretty hard in some of the patches for placement across the stereo field. Obviously that doesn't come out with the SS3. Sound effects like the Money cash registers don't come out that way either, but they sound big and spacious.

[Tombsalley]

Second SS to arrive today.

Time for some testing if weather allows.

I plan to set up outside my home

And experiment with placement

And listen.

[I-missRichardTee]

Dimensions and weight in pounds?

[Tombsalley]

Dimensions and weight in pounds?

 

You know..the ussual.

 

Anyway..my approach is to use these with a sub(kw181)

For my larger outside venues.

Not as just a monitor but front of house and monitor.

 

I did a short trial outside. Heres a rough idea of how it sounds...

With two unts stacked it sounds basically like one only

A bit beefier but,the coverage was nice and even maybe a bit

More in the middle if you will. But overall it would give you

More of the same but more power and gurth!

 

The next thing I tried (which is what I am hoping to use)

Is a spaced pair. These were about 12ft from each other & not quite

As far as I plan but cables where short. I've tried it w/both facing forward.

and what I found here Tended to sound more like a traditional

one on the left,one on the rght Set up, but is much wider over all than any two speaker set up.

The coverage was very good but when you start to walk towards the

Middle it starts to get hot and cold(colapse)and very a bit,not terrable

But,not really what I want.(more than likely a phase issue)

Next I moved the speakers about 30 deg. Facing away from each other

On each side and I found this to be about the best use as

A spaced pair,not perfect but, it covered very well,the middle

Didn't colapse quite as badly,livable. The one thing I notice

On the spaced pair is that you get a bit more hi freq. coverage

Over all vs a single unit. It won't give you the even dispertion

Vs one unit or two stacked but, I think over all it will be a good compromise

And certainly more coverage than any two speaker system

I've used. I did have a Dual Bose system I used before and ran it stereo

And it did okay. But, this with a powerful single sub should

Out perform that. Not to mention that you won't loose

Your left right information anywhere. I use a single system for most gigs

With a smaller EV sub and it seems to be working out well

So far! With no monitors and no speaker stands blocking

Anyones view. So, I feel it to be very promising thus far.

I am farely convinced two will work for my larger outside jobs.

One sub two SS and thats it.

 

 

 

[DanL]

I thought tee was asking for the

size. Its 40lbs and 11 by 11 by 18 inches tall.

[Tombsalley]

Sorry, about that. Call me blonde!

[I-missRichardTee]

That's all good

[Tombsalley]

After further talk with Aspen. I believe stacking these will be my best option

To start. I'm not sure weather to stack these on top of the sub(kw181)

Or set them up close on a stand or something that goes above the sub height.

Any thought's or ideas are welcome.

Thanks

 

[MotiDave]

did i read that right, you're running 2 ssv3s plus a sub?

[HammondDave]

did i read that right, you're running 2 ssv3s plus a sub?

 

Sounds like a $2000 amp to me... OY!

[Aspen]

Ok, it's not my favorite performance by any means, but here's one of my groups the ZuZu Men doing Cold Sweat. There is a TINY bit of my organ in the house, but it's almost nothing the sound you're hearing is basically from the stage (just my SK1 and the SS3) from the second balcony, maybe 60 feet back, shot with an iPhone.

 

 

Wow, Doug..great link thanks!. Not that bad either for a iFon @ 60 feet! I guess that kinda proves the point that the SS3 cuts to the end of the room!

 

Also loved the following link of "Sorry" with just you on AP thru the SS2...and what a great vocal performance from Iraida.

[Aspen]

Played three gospel events Sunday using CP4 (with fulltime LH acoustic bass split) along with a dual mic'd acoustic guitarist and a female vocalist; frequent 3 part harmony and some pretty punchy volume in 200-400 seat venues, running through K10's with KSub and GK MB210.

 

Decided to use the SSv3 as the sole monitor, placed about 15' in front of and firing back at group, tilted upward with wide dialed at 2o'clock since no reflective surfaces were nearby. Stage front looked totally clean with the SSv3 down on audience floor level, angled upward for its sound to clear the 4 or 5 steps running across the church stages.

 

It handled full FOH mix at potent volumes - and even being closer than considered optimum for "bloom," the monitor mix had an omnidirectional surround effect - and insiders in the audience reported feeling surrounded by the sound even though the SSv3 was pointed away from the audience.

 

Perhaps the side-firing speaker did its thing in conjunction with the K10's to produce the SSv3 effect - will certainly be using this configuration again.

 

We're usually writing in this thread about the SSv3 firing out toward the audience, just wanted to report that the SSv3 is killer as a rear-firing sole monitor if you get the opportunity to try it in that mode.

 

 

Very interesting report, thanks for sharing that!

 

I can imagine the audience sitting close to the SS3 did get some dimensional character, our box is at least 300 degree dispersion so I am sure they were sitting int he field, and the FOH being L+R probably completed the picture for them.

 

I also agree it could be useful as a monitor...although I have never considered it for that task...for the simple fact that it's Omni character might be less likely to feed back. Point source directional monitors have been the norm for years, but if you move away from their axis you lose them, and if you move into their hot spot, watch out...feedback!

 

The SS3 doesn't really have a "hot spot", it has a very averaged dispersion...and that may work well for that application you mentioned.

 

Hmmm, sparks a new idea; what if you stacked 2 SS3 center stage and reversed one of them; one faces the audience, and the other faces the band just as you used yours in that application. In theory, that would give you an overlapping 360 "full circle" of stereo image, and also allow for separate levels to adjust the CPS FOH and CPS stage monitor.

 

Most interestingly, you would would still have a "center" point time aligned stereo that would be a full 360...and have a heck of that 3D image. Additionally, a center point of dispersion would greatly reduce phase anomalies and so improve the coherency of the performance...on of the side benefit mentioned several times already...it is crowd friendly.

 

I may try that myself sometime soon...you may be on to something here Rickyp!

[cphollis]

OK, that's a really cool idea, Aspen.

[agitato]

Aspen, are schematics available from sweetwater or your company for the ss? I ask, in the event that ss might need service,later on, then a local tech could service it if I had them. Are spare power cords (for the ss) available from sweetwater? What is the warranty on the ss? Thank You.

[BWood]

Hmmm, sparks a new idea; what if you stacked 2 SS3 center stage and reversed them; one faces the audience, and the other faces the band just as you used yours in that application.

 

Aspen - Wouldn't that put the side speakers 180 degrees out of phase and cancel the L-R signal? Could you switch the wiring on one of the side speakers to put the two side speakers in phase.

 

[DanL]

Aspen, are schematics available from sweetwater or your company for the ss? I ask, in the event that ss might need service,later on, then a local tech could service it if I had them. Are spare power cords (for the ss) available from sweetwater? What is the warranty on the ss? Thank You.

The power cord is a standard computer type, easy to find.

[rickp]

Played three gospel events Sunday using CP4 (with fulltime LH acoustic bass split) along with a dual mic'd acoustic guitarist and a female vocalist; frequent 3 part harmony and some pretty punchy volume in 200-400 seat venues, running through K10's with KSub and GK MB210.

 

Decided to use the SSv3 as the sole monitor, placed about 15' in front of and firing back at group, tilted upward with wide dialed at 2o'clock since no reflective surfaces were nearby. Stage front looked totally clean with the SSv3 down on audience floor level, angled upward for its sound to clear the 4 or 5 steps running across the church stages.

 

It handled full FOH mix at potent volumes - and even being closer than considered optimum for "bloom," the monitor mix had an omnidirectional surround effect - and insiders in the audience reported feeling surrounded by the sound even though the SSv3 was pointed away from the audience.

 

Perhaps the side-firing speaker did its thing in conjunction with the K10's to produce the SSv3 effect - will certainly be using this configuration again.

 

We're usually writing in this thread about the SSv3 firing out toward the audience, just wanted to report that the SSv3 is killer as a rear-firing sole monitor if you get the opportunity to try it in that mode.

 

 

Very interesting report, thanks for sharing that!

. . .

I also agree it could be useful as a monitor...although I have never considered it for that task...for the simple fact that it's Omni character might be less likely to feed back. Point source directional monitors have been the norm for years, but if you move away from their axis you lose them, and if you move into their hot spot, watch out...feedback!

. . .

I may try that myself sometime soon...you may be on to something here Rickyp!

Thanks! We did it again Wednesday evening, actually cranked the SSv3 up a bit louder - and, your thought of being less likely to feedback than traditional monitors seems right on the money to me; initially had the volume way too high during sound check, the lack of feedback tricked me into initially dialing it up too high.

 

It works beyond great as a rear-firing monitor, very easy to hear every aspect clearly and accurately (running the FOH mix through it so we can all "self-adjust" our vocal intensity/mic distance as needed and instrument volume levels), the monitor sound seems surrounding and everything is clear and crisp - inspiring.

 

And, one box is all that is needed for the entire stage.

 

Your idea of stacking another SSv3 firing forward sounds great to me. That would not only reduce equipment lug and setup (eliminate K10s, but keep bass amp), it would also push surround sound out front (I'm imagining making two full-depth&width wedges to tilt the bottom rear-firing SSv3 up and another one on top of the bottom unit to give the top unit a level platform) . . . if the audience gets the sound that is coming back at us, would be hard to beat!

 

 

[Aspen]

Aspen, are schematics available from sweetwater or your company for the ss? I ask, in the event that ss might need service,later on, then a local tech could service it if I had them. Are spare power cords (for the ss) available from sweetwater? What is the warranty on the ss? Thank You.

 

Of course we do have schematics available to qualified techs to service the amp, should that ever become necessary. Thankfully, so far that as not been necessary.

 

However, we designed our SS3 so the entire chassis/amp assembly can be easily exchanged in about 5 minutes. Also, because of it's four class D "switching" amps, the entire SS3 chassis weighs less than 2 pounds.

 

So, on the rare occasion we've had a warranty issue, it was faster (and cheaper) to send out an advance replacement chassis, rather than let an amp sit in a shop for weeks, and the user performed the exchange (it's really easy).

 

Our warranty is one year from DOP, and as mentioned the power cable is universally available for less than the postage we'd charge to send you one. I also keep a stock of all speaker components on hand as well as the toroidal transformer.

[Aspen]

Played three gospel events Sunday using CP4 (with fulltime LH acoustic bass split) along with a dual mic'd acoustic guitarist and a female vocalist; frequent 3 part harmony and some pretty punchy volume in 200-400 seat venues, running through K10's with KSub and GK MB210.

 

Decided to use the SSv3 as the sole monitor, placed about 15' in front of and firing back at group, tilted upward with wide dialed at 2o'clock since no reflective surfaces were nearby. Stage front looked totally clean with the SSv3 down on audience floor level, angled upward for its sound to clear the 4 or 5 steps running across the church stages.

 

It handled full FOH mix at potent volumes - and even being closer than considered optimum for "bloom," the monitor mix had an omnidirectional surround effect - and insiders in the audience reported feeling surrounded by the sound even though the SSv3 was pointed away from the audience.

 

Perhaps the side-firing speaker did its thing in conjunction with the K10's to produce the SSv3 effect - will certainly be using this configuration again.

 

We're usually writing in this thread about the SSv3 firing out toward the audience, just wanted to report that the SSv3 is killer as a rear-firing sole monitor if you get the opportunity to try it in that mode.

 

 

Very interesting report, thanks for sharing that!

. . .

I also agree it could be useful as a monitor...although I have never considered it for that task...for the simple fact that it's Omni character might be less likely to feed back. Point source directional monitors have been the norm for years, but if you move away from their axis you lose them, and if you move into their hot spot, watch out...feedback!

. . .

I may try that myself sometime soon...you may be on to something here Rickyp!

Thanks! We did it again Wednesday evening, actually cranked the SSv3 up a bit louder - and, your thought of being less likely to feedback than traditional monitors seems right on the money to me; initially had the volume way too high during sound check, the lack of feedback tricked me into initially dialing it up too high.

 

It works beyond great as a rear-firing monitor, very easy to hear every aspect clearly and accurately (running the FOH mix through it so we can all "self-adjust" our vocal intensity/mic distance as needed and instrument volume levels), the monitor sound seems surrounding and everything is clear and crisp - inspiring.

 

And, one box is all that is needed for the entire stage.

 

Your idea of stacking another SSv3 firing forward sounds great to me. That would not only reduce equipment lug and setup (eliminate K10s, but keep bass amp), it would also push surround sound out front (I'm imagining making two full-depth&width wedges to tilt the bottom rear-firing SSv3 up and another one on top of the bottom unit to give the top unit a level platform) . . . if the audience gets the sound that is coming back at us, would be hard to beat!

 

 

Thanks again for the follow up gig report on this.

 

I have already used one SS3 many times as an "all in one" amp for the small venue applications, running virtually the whole band thru it. This provides 3 major benefits, 2 of which you hit on:

 

1) a lot less gear to haul, and

 

2) it was easy to hear your "mix", hit your harmonies, and "self-adjust" as you termed it.

 

But in addition, and IMHO the best feature of all, is 3) you are hearing EXACTLY what the audience hears! And that has been impossible since the dual purposed FOH and stage monitor systems first began.

 

While this is probably not practical for large venues, it could offer a big improvement for small to medium sized venues.

 

Speaking for myself here, there is an enhanced comfort level when I hear the mix, and KNOW it is the same mix my band mates AND the audience hear. It's just more "fun", and I think the music gets better for everyone.

[Aspen]

Hmmm, sparks a new idea; what if you stacked 2 SS3 center stage and reversed them; one faces the audience, and the other faces the band just as you used yours in that application.

 

Aspen - Wouldn't that put the side speakers 180 degrees out of phase and cancel the L-R signal? Could you switch the wiring on one of the side speakers to put the two side speakers in phase.

 

I'll have to think about that, you may have a point. I'll need to try it and see what happens!

 

But I can't imagine they would totally cancel each other out...but before I respond off cuff here...I'll need to do some research and report back.

[Autumn Pittman]

Hi All! I really love the dialog and analysis on this forum. Thank you so much for such detail.

Several folks have mentioned/asked about putting Spacestation v3 on a speaker stand or sub pole above the sub.

We received this photo and explanation from a loyal user. He has a v2, but that is not important to the set up. It shows that he has installed a monitor type stand and works around the fact that the Spacestation does not have a pole mount. (Which wasn't really an over-sight as much as it was and engineering choice.)

I hope this helps.

I think it looks pretty cool!!

 

https://www.facebook.com/centerpointstereo/photos/pb.397555833755900.-2207520000.1429902271./411135395731277/?type=1&theater

 

Also, I hope you do not mind a small plug (LOL)

As most of you that have purchased and are using the SS3 have stated, you really have to hear it to fully understand its' wonders... We created a Facebook Group called Center Point Stereo Family Picnic as a place you all can go to openly promote your gigs so maybe others that are interested can check it out as well as it gives all of us an opportunity to support our live music community everywhere!!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/810801589001231/

 

 

[I-missRichardTee]

I play left hand bass regularly, and it's a part of "my style", so to speak.

I am seriously considering this SS but have a question about the bass end of things.

In the pic, just above, it shows a Polk audio 10"sub that crosses over at a fixed frequency of 100 HZ.

99% of keyboardist won't care about this, but I am sensitive to the whole spectrum of sound. A sub, does a left hand bass a disservice. But if I can dial in the frequency of that cross over point.. that would make a big difference in the total resulting sound.

It's not a matter of loudness, it's a matter of tone, and where I want to hear which low notes reproduced.. be it the the SS or the sub.

The Bose L1 fails for me in this area too, it crosses over at a fixed 200hz, where important 200+ Hz bass notes and harmonics are relegated to the skinny sticks that made Bose famous.

For all I know, the Polk audio 100HZ crossover is ideal.. but experience tells me, it ought to be user choice. Is this feasible.... A relatively small, not heavy sub like the 10" Polk, is perfect for me. I tend to not like subs, because they sound unnatural to me, but couldn't that be because crossover is fixed, and overwhelms the bass with too many subsonic lows? But for a bass player keyboard player, the engineer-determined-ideal frequency is much less important than the sweet spot for certain bass tones.

Can you recommend such a sub and cross over?

[MotiDave]

Hi Aspen - any truth to the rumor of an ssv4 with a 10" or 12" main and more power?

[drawback]

Tee, take a look at the specs for the Behringer B1200D. A few of us have this one and it may give you the variables you're looking for.

 

[url:http://www.behringer.com/assets/B1200D-PRO_WebBrochure.pdf]clonk[/url]

 

 

[rickp]

I play left hand bass regularly, and it's a part of "my style", so to speak.

I am seriously considering this SS but have a question about the bass end of things.

In the pic, just above, it shows a Polk audio 10"sub that crosses over at a fixed frequency of 100 HZ.

99% of keyboardist won't care about this, but I am sensitive to the whole spectrum of sound. A sub, does a left hand bass a disservice. But if I can dial in the frequency of that cross over point.. that would make a big difference in the total resulting sound.

It's not a matter of loudness, it's a matter of tone, and where I want to hear which low notes reproduced.. be it the the SS or the sub.

The Bose L1 fails for me in this area too, it crosses over at a fixed 200hz, where important 200+ Hz bass notes and harmonics are relegated to the skinny sticks that made Bose famous.

For all I know, the Polk audio 100HZ crossover is ideal.. but experience tells me, it ought to be user choice. Is this feasible.... A relatively small, not heavy sub like the 10" Polk, is perfect for me. I tend to not like subs, because they sound unnatural to me, but couldn't that be because crossover is fixed, and overwhelms the bass with too many subsonic lows? But for a bass player keyboard player, the engineer-determined-ideal frequency is much less important than the sweet spot for certain bass tones.

Can you recommend such a sub and cross over?

I play left hand bass in three groups and often in pick-up or fill-in gigs, and have the same qualms you have with crossovers and crossover setups as well as with the sound of subs only (without bass amps). If you don't have a separate bass keyboard or a keyboard with aux outs for routing of dedicated bass (I usually use a Korg R3 loaded with bass patches through a Tech 21 VT Bass DI to FOH and bass amp, and believe a separate bass setup is best when very loud P-bass or similar bass is needed and/or when FOH wants a separate bass feed), below is what I posted earlier about using a CP4 with split bass and a few people noted later that they had similar experiences using a bass amp with the SSv3 without introducing any crossovers:

 

I think pairing the SS with a quality small bass amp works great without a crossover. For one thing, I think overall sound benefits from the SS's 8" and a small bass amp's 10" or 12" overlapping and having excursions into each other's freq ranges - and the result is a smooth gradual and blended transition from one to the other as you move up and down the keyboard, without abrupt changes due to a crossover's fixed point of directing signal feed.

 

And, the "rolloff" Aspen built into the SS as freqs lower totally leaves the SS's higher region unmolested to my ears if/when a small bass amp is attached via the SS3's sub-out, even when the left hand is split to acoustic bass at aggressive volumes. If/when a small bass amp is attached, the SS seems to me to ignore the low stuff more than it does with nothing attached, and with the lows seemingly grabbed by the bass amp, the SS3 pumps out the higher stuff just as nicely as playing the right hand alone (I've experimented with this extensively since I play LH bass most of the time and wanted to be able to do it when necessary with a split CP4 running directly into the SS3 with no separate bass amp feed).

 

Since that post, I have used the CP4 frequently that way with XLR outs to FOH with subs and the 1/4 outs to the SSv3 with a bass amp running from its sub-out, and the CP4's acoustic bass split voice has sounded very realistic and dynamic without impacting the AP's or other voices - so I've become even more sold on the setup.

 

Another option is hard-panning the bass voices left and hard-panning all other voices right and then running separate bass and mono key feeds; but if you're in the stereo FOH feed and/or stereo SSv3 keys camp though as I and many others here are, that's not a desirable option; if you normally run mono to FOH as many others here do, then that could work great - but since you're asking about playing bass while using a SSv3, it sounds like you're looking to have stereo keys.

 

 

[lowerhodes]

I am such a lemming. Mine is scheduled to be delivered on Wednesday. Someone conducting a study on conformity should use this thread as a case study.

[cphollis]

SSv3 + Behringer BD1200-D works great for my smaller gigs. Keys to mixer to BD1200-D which filters out the lows <100Hz and on to the SSv3. Rock solid rig for me, but there are other solutions out there, I'm sure.

[Aspen]

Hi Aspen - any truth to the rumor of an ssv4 with a 10" or 12" main and more power?

 

I have not heard that "rumor", but I have had many requests for both a smaller, and larger version of the SS3. And, I do listen to every comment and requests here on one of the world's finest musician's forums.

 

However, if I were working on either a SS "mini" or an "XL" version request, I certainly wouldn't want to talk about it until we had a delivery date in mind...which I can say with certainly...we do not.

 

It takes tremendous resource to bring a new product to market, not to mention a lot of time. FYI, the SS3 was "in the oven" over 24 months, and has been on the market just 6 months! That said, it has taken all my resource and time just to meet the growing demand and eliminate back orders...which I do believe we will have finally achieved with this week's deliveries. SW finally is selling from a full wagon as of this week, and I anticipate there will be no more back orders for the rest of the year (thanks to a triple production run in April).

 

Now that the smoke has cleared and things have stabilize, I can start to think about "what's next".

 

But trust me on this, when I have something to announce, you will hear it here first. You guys on this KC forum have been a great support and comfort to me thru out this long and difficult Spacestation relaunch adventure, and your input will greatly influence my thoughts and actions for any future CPS products.

[timwat]

For what little it's worth, I would also suggest especially for small companies, it is often wise to maximize market sales on a successful product before expanding scope, which can cannibalize potential placements of the original version.

 

Big companies like Apple don't have to worry that much, with enormous consumer markets and deep pockets and resources.

 

While this may invoke the ire of other forum members on me, the biz guy in me suggests there is still market potential for SS v.3 to reach, no sense fixing what ain't broke yet.

 

More than anything else, I want to see Aspen and CPS succeed for the long haul. Personally, I think that means not being in a rush to introduce potential distractions and supply chain challenges with an XL version - especially now that Europe has gotten its 1st taste of SS v.3.

 

Just my 0.02.

 

Tim

[Aspen]

Hi All! I really love the dialog and analysis on this forum. Thank you so much for such detail.

Several folks have mentioned/asked about putting Spacestation v3 on a speaker stand or sub pole above the sub.

We received this photo and explanation from a loyal user. He has a v2, but that is not important to the set up. It shows that he has installed a monitor type stand and works around the fact that the Spacestation does not have a pole mount. (Which wasn't really an over-sight as much as it was and engineering choice.)

I hope this helps.

I think it looks pretty cool!!

 

https://www.facebook.com/centerpointstereo/photos/pb.397555833755900.-2207520000.1429902271./411135395731277/?type=1&theater

 

Also, I hope you do not mind a small plug (LOL)

As most of you that have purchased and are using the SS3 have stated, you really have to hear it to fully understand its' wonders... We created a Facebook Group called Center Point Stereo Family Picnic as a place you all can go to openly promote your gigs so maybe others that are interested can check it out as well as it gives all of us an opportunity to support our live music community everywhere!!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/810801589001231/

 

 

I'd like to chime in here as both the pround father of CPS and my talented gear head daughter (BTW, a former Guitar Center manager and account specialist for Alesis/Numark) who is now living the dream in Argentina and helping me manage our CPS "family activities".

 

There have been constant requests here on this KC thread from the unenlightened (pre-SS3) KBers among us to "hear CPS live" before taking the plunge, quite understandably.

 

So Autumn had the idea to start a SS3 family "gig announcement board", that could promote your next SS3 performance so that interested parties could come and hear both the SS3, and YOU. I thought: great idea!

 

We've had plenty of "after the fact" gig reports here....which are great and informative...but now she's set up a Facebook page where our SS3 family can post up their upcoming gigs for those waiting, and wanting to hear the SS3 live in their area. And who knows we may even pump up the tip jar!

 

So please guys; if you're going to be playing out in public over the next weeks and months with your SS3...post it there and we'll make a family picnic out of it...you never know who might show up!