Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[Markay]

SS3 owners or Aspen may be able to share some insight on the extent that the SS3 preserves the location of various elements on the stereo stage from hard left to hard right.

 

For example an orchestral piece played through the SS3, is the precise positioning of each instrument section location retained when played back through the SS3?

 

Similarly is the top octave on an AP sound mostly heard from the right side speaker and bottom octave mostly from the left? - assuming SS3 controls are flat and it is reproducing the stereo image as determined by the board.

 

Precise L/R positioning? No, that has not been my experience. But that's not what an orchestra or an acoustic piano sounds like to me, either. One hears directional cues, for sure, but the Spacestation was not designed to replace your studio monitors when recording.

 

This comes much closer to replicating the feeling of listening to an orchestra in a concert hall, or playing a piano in a reverberant room. There's different "stuff" happening across a broad sound field, all interacting in a sonically pleasing way.

 

Before I go on let me make it clear I am not setting out to diss the SS3, just trying to get a better understanding of what the SS adds over mono. So if the width aural cues are not the same as conventional stereo is it more the case that the SS3 is using the stereo signal to produce an almost omni-directional mono signal?

[Raymb1]

When you hear grand piano in a room, it's not stereo, sort of a surround sound. The SS approximates that very well.

[Danny Linguini]

SS3 owners or Aspen may be able to share some insight on the extent that the SS3 preserves the location of various elements on the stereo stage from hard left to hard right.

 

For example an orchestral piece played through the SS3, is the precise positioning of each instrument section location retained when played back through the SS3?

 

Similarly is the top octave on an AP sound mostly heard from the right side speaker and bottom octave mostly from the left? - assuming SS3 controls are flat and it is reproducing the stereo image as determined by the board.

 

Precise L/R positioning? No, that has not been my experience. But that's not what an orchestra or an acoustic piano sounds like to me, either. One hears directional cues, for sure, but the Spacestation was not designed to replace your studio monitors when recording.

 

This comes much closer to replicating the feeling of listening to an orchestra in a concert hall, or playing a piano in a reverberant room. There's different "stuff" happening across a broad sound field, all interacting in a sonically pleasing way.

 

Before I go on let me make it clear I am not setting out to diss the SS3, just trying to get a better understanding of what the SS adds over mono. So if the width aural cues are not the same as conventional stereo is it more the case that the SS3 is using the stereo signal to produce an almost omni-directional mono signal?

 

Imagine the sonic equivalent to the difference between watching a movie in 2D vs. 3D. That's about the difference between mono and SS3. It uses the differences between left and right to create a kind of 3D sound.

[Markay]

When you hear grand piano in a room, it's not stereo, sort of a surround sound. The SS approximates that very well.

So hypothetically if you close micced a grand piano in a smallish performance space taking into account the SS3 max SPL, and minimised the recording of any room reflections, mixed it down stereo then played it back through the SS3 positioned in the same place as the grand piano, the SS3 should provide a more realistic reproduction of the original, for a listener in the room than any 2 box stereo.

[Danny Linguini]

When you hear grand piano in a room, it's not stereo, sort of a surround sound. The SS approximates that very well.

So hypothetically if you close micced a grand piano in a smallish performance space taking into account the SS3 max SPL, and minimised the recording of any room reflections, mixed it down stereo then played it back through the SS3 positioned in the same place as the grand piano, the SS3 should provide a more realistic reproduction of the original, for a listener in the room than any 2 box stereo.

 

Bingo.

[J. Dan]

I don't own a space station and haven't heard one personally, but from what I understand of the technology, center would be center, anything panned hard left or right would come from the sides, essentially from the room, rather than direct. So intend of a L-C-R stereo field, it's center direct, stereo room.

[Raymb1]

In listening to my SS, there is no center. The sound is all around. No directional sound at all. Check out Aspen's first video. At Center Point Stereo.

[Doug Robinson]

"In listening to my SS, there is no center. The sound is all around. No directional sound at all."

 

 

I have to concur--well, if you stand directly in front or directly to the left or right, you might experience directional sound, but in general it's more like the atmosphere--it's all around you. That's a very great way to experience stereo keyboards in my opinion.

[Doug Robinson]

I wrote a post on the other stereo amp thread, and I think it's the best articulation I've written about my experience with the SS3. Forgive the duplication if you're reading both threads:

 

At the outdoor gig I mentioned, I went back and forth between playing my SK1 and SS3 combo; and a recent-Roland weighted keyboard through a KB500 which then ran the FOH (all the other keyboardists were curious about my setup, so when they were sitting in I always offered to play the Roland).

 

We can discuss these things academically of course, but on an emotional level it felt like someone had thrown a wet blanket over my soul when I tried to dig into the Roland/KB500 setup. A month earlier and I would have been mildly grateful that it was loud and barky enough to cut through the rest of the players. I would have registered that the sound wasn't exactly pleasing to the others or myself but I wouldn't have cared because what were my alternatives?

 

But going back to my setup, I felt like I was providing a naturally atmospheric-- as opposed to directional--sound that wrapped itself around the band AND the audience. It is VERY different in that way, and it takes a little getting used to--I used to think of 'being loud enough' as simply being heard "well enough" as opposed to being enjoyable to hear.

 

I used to use a personal stereo P.A. which was better-sounding than the Roland, Yamaha and motion Sound (2 models) I tested in my home. This got me through 10 years of gigs. Next up was to order a pair of powered monitors even though positioning was going to be a problem--who was going to hear the coolest sounds possible from my rig? Me? The band? Or the audience? In some settings, I would have had to choose. Having done that a little, I usually chose best for me, so I would play better and inspire the band, which hopefully inspired the audience.

 

But since I've been playing with the SS3, I barely think about stuff like that. I know the other band members are stunned by how well they can hear the keys, even when I'm not playing loudly. I know from walking around the dance floor or the audience that the further away you are, the more impressive the clear and present sound is, so far true up to about 200 feet in fact.

 

I've simply stopped looking (brooding) about keyboard amplification systems. Now I feel like I'm making music.

 

The day may come when I feel the need to add a sub, but it's hard to imagine--I don't really enjoy playing so loud onstage that it hurts. It seems to me that the volume of even the r and b/blues projects I'm involved with right now is plenty loud. I don't play left hand bass, but when I play New Orleans-flavored funky piano, I of course have an active left hand at times (other times, I look like I've only got a right hand in videos!). Regardless, so far I've never felt there was anything lacking but a little more talent.

[HammondDave]

In listening to my SS, there is no center. The sound is all around. No directional sound at all. Check out Aspen's first video. At Center Point Stereo.

 

To me those videos are almost useless. It seems to me that you would have to be in the actual room to hear it.

 

When I played the demo at NAMM the sound was definitely directional from the box. It was not surrounding me in an "atmospheric" way. Believe me, if I had heard the sound envelop me I would have bought one on the spot. Again, NAMM is not the best place to audition anything.

[Al Quinn]

Placed my order with SW today. They gave me a delivery date of 5/1. Looking forward to experiencing the magic described in this thread.

 

I had trouble rationalizing this purchase as my RCF TT08s are wonderful, but there is often an issue with placement of two speakers and, perhaps more importantly, I'm hoping/expecting I can use the SS V3 rather than my 75 lb. chopped Leslie 145 for jazz organ trio gigs.

[timwat]

As much as I like my SS + GK amp solution, I've wanted to say this for a while:

 

The SpaceStation is just an amp.

 

It's a very good amp, not perfect (nor has Aspen ever claimed it was). I think it needs the bass amp I pair it with - some will disagree with this. It has a learning curve. I don't think it will replace traditional sound reinforcement in large venues. It's not magic. It won't solve the Greek / German Euro crisis.

 

There have been a few times in this thread that the language has gotten to the point that it can create unrealistic expectations. I probably have contributed to that too, somewhere in this War and Peace novel.

 

The SS + GK is now my first KB amp solution, for all my gigs. It does a lot of things better than the other solutions I've tried.

 

But it's still just an amp.

[MotiDave]

It's ... just an amp??? Wtf did I read 1000 journal entries for?

 

Dan, I also got nothing from Astons video. It sounded like a crappy laptop speaker to me.

[Bossbandbob]

My bands have played on some very cramped stages. When we have backup singers and a sax, it can get up to 8 or 9 on stage. Would the SS work well in this situation? It seems if I have to have it too close to me it won't work well for my monitoring. As is I often have to have my powered speaker real close to me. The only other option for the SS in these situations, I guess, would be on a stand near, but off the stage.

[timwat]

My bands have played on some very cramped stages. When we have backup singers and a sax, it can get up to 8 or 9 on stage. Would the SS work well in this situation?

 

For me, the solution was getting the bass combo amp. I play a funk gig in Oakland on a postage size stage. Having the SS on top of the GK raises it up 18", so it's firing closer to ear level. It also takes up no more precious stage real estate - you're stacking vertically.

 

I don't get the "bloom" (that's farther out in the room), but monitoring works very well.

[Doug Robinson]

"As much as I like my SS + GK amp solution, I've wanted to say this for a while:

 

The SpaceStation is just an amp."

 

 

Well, of course it is. This is a thread to discuss a new amp.

 

 

"It's a very good amp, not perfect (nor has Aspen ever claimed it was). I think it needs the bass amp I pair it with - some will disagree with this. It has a learning curve. I don't think it will replace traditional sound reinforcement in large venues. It's not magic. It won't solve the Greek / German Euro crisis."

 

 

There are a million things it won't do, but it does what it sets out to do beautifully so who cares about what it can't do?

 

 

"There have been a few times in this thread that the language has gotten to the point that it can create unrealistic expectations. I probably have contributed to that too, somewhere in this War and Peace novel."

 

 

I've sung its praises a few times, but I speak directly and honestly. The way I feel playing it is the way I feel playing it.

 

 

"The SS + GK is now my first KB amp solution, for all my gigs. It does a lot of things better than the other solutions I've tried."

 

 

It actually does the things I need better than anything else I've tried.

 

 

"But it's still just an amp."

 

 

Of course. And an organ is just an organ, a guitar is just a guitar and so on. And my music is just my music, in the end. I doubt anyone is as pleased (or as disappointed occasionally) with what I play as I am. But man, do I like having the right tools to play with after all these years.

[I-missRichardTee]

Seems to be a bit of confusion re "bloom" aka omni directionality

I assume timwat that the extreme closeness to you body would nullify "bloom".

Can timwit and others on the other side of this discussion, come to some agreement about

placement of SS

and omnidirectIonality ?

[Jazzmammal]

The SS is a stage amp designed to solve a problem. As good as it is it isn't close to my home stereo setup or anybody else's who knows how this works. I have a pair of Altec Model 14's placed 'just so' in front of my very comfortable movie watching couch that I also placed to be precisely in the stereo sweet spot and I get great sound with glorious stereo separation. Aspen himself has said the SS isn't going to duplicate that but what it does do is throw a decent stereo image all over a given space. The best stereo speaker systems can't do that.

 

One of the first things I did when I got home with my SS was to take the headphone out from my stereo amp using a splitter and plugged into the SS. First, the overall sound quality was much better than I expected and better than any of my stage monitors and amps. But, nowhere near as good as my Altec's, also as expected. Those things sold new in 1985 for $2,800 each. I've refoamed the woofers but other than that they're in perfect original condition.

 

The SS is a killer game changing stage amp but it's not going to replace 10K (or more) of high end stereo equipment in your home.

 

Bob

[Bossbandbob]

Thanks Tim!

I presume the other players in your band on that cramped stage can also hear the SS better than your previous amplification set ups?

 

My bands have played on some very cramped stages. When we have backup singers and a sax, it can get up to 8 or 9 on stage. Would the SS work well in this situation?

 

For me, the solution was getting the bass combo amp. I play a funk gig in Oakland on a postage size stage. Having the SS on top of the GK raises it up 18", so it's firing closer to ear level. It also takes up no more precious stage real estate - you're stacking vertically.

 

I don't get the "bloom" (that's farther out in the room), but monitoring works very well.

[endlessummerkeys]

I need to say something that has been on my mind. For all of you newbies out there that are on the fence about this amp, just wanted to share my story about how I decided to purchase this amp. I have been playing keyboard now for 48 years since 1967. Not that that makes me any different than anyone else on this thread, nor does it make me any better, but I believe that it does qualify me as one who has experienced a vast multitude of equipment and styles of music. I had just purchased about my who knows which keyboard amp trying to discover the certain something that I had been searching for forever it seems when I came across this weird looking amp on the Sweetwater web site. So.... as many of you have done, I read a few of the reviews on the SW website about this amp. They intrigued me so I found the video that Aspen made describing this amp. I have an electronics background and have been servicing tube amps since I was 13 years old and I knew once Aspen said that the R+L and the R-L aspect of this amp is what makes it special it was like a switch turned on in my head and I had discovered exactly what I had been searching for. You know that moment when you know that you know that you know something.... Well that was all I needed to hear and I ordered the amp from that and it is the most amazing sound that I have heard and my stage setup is finally where it needs to be allowing me to enjoy my music to its fullest and enabeling me to be a WHOLE LOT more creative making music. And after all isn't that what we are all really looking for? I just love the amp and I hope you love it too!!!!!

[Tombsalley]

As much as I like my SS + GK amp solution, I've wanted to say this for a while:

 

The SpaceStation is just an amp.

 

It's a very good amp, not perfect (nor has Aspen ever claimed it was). I think it needs the bass amp I pair it with - some will disagree with this. It has a learning curve. I don't think it will replace traditional sound reinforcement in large venues. It's not magic. It won't solve the Greek / German Euro crisis.

 

There have been a few times in this thread that the language has gotten to the point that it can create unrealistic expectations. I probably have contributed to that too, somewhere in this War and Peace novel.

 

The SS + GK is now my first KB amp solution, for all my gigs. It does a lot of things better than the other solutions I've tried.

 

But it's still just an amp.

 

 

The SS is a game changer for me when it comes to

Compact sound coverage.

I have to agree that this isn't going to be like sitting

In your ez chair right dead center of the sweet spot

Of a high end system or just a well placed system in a great room.

In terms of seperation.

As I wondered if it did,. Some might find that disapointing.

But, it does cover a space like no other system I have heard.

And this little bitch is tiny for what it can do.

I had the Bose and it sounded okay and covered well too.

But, nothing like this. I disagree respectfully that it's just an amp.

A mono amp, is just an amp! Go back to using just an amp

And tell me how it works out for ya and then , think? This(SS)is just an amp?

I mean no disrespect to your opinion and please take no offense

To it. As this is just my opinion thus far. With more time maybe I'll think the

Same?

 

[Brettymike]

"The SS is a killer game changing stage amp but it's not going to replace 10K (or more) of high end stereo equipment in your home."

 

^^^ I wouldn't say that too quickly , I see this new concept working everywhere! - both small and large in size etc.

 

Brett

[endlessummerkeys]

good point

[Doug Robinson]

Well, at the risk of coming off like a Moonie or something, let me field one more of these types of comments:

 

 

"The SS is a killer game changing stage amp but it's not going to replace 10K (or more) of high end stereo equipment in your home."

 

Neither, honestly, would a well-mixed and mastered recording of a Fender Twin Reverb replace the visceral intensity of the same amp sitting in front of you played by a genius. If someone actually bought a live keyboard performance amp to recreate (or the gods forbid) replace your high end stereo system (and everything that goes into that like sitting in the perfect spot in a home theater massage chair with popcorn and a glass of merlot), then your expectations weren't realistic to begin with.

 

Nothing sounds like an acoustic piano, played acoustically in a beautiful room by a killer player. Not even a well-mic'd piano in a beautiful room played by a killer player. The difference is that I never expect anything to sound like that--a Hammond B3 doesn't sound like a piano; a well-tuned set of Gretsch drums doesn't, and so on.

 

But...as performers, we have to amplify our instruments somehow. Our options are pretty limited, even if you throw in everything you've ever tried or are likely to try in the next couple of years.

 

Is it the same as listening with headphones at home? How could it? But was that anyone's goal in producing or buying this amp? Not mine--I just want my keys to sound extremely groovy to myself, the band and the audience in the venues where I typically play. It does that for me.

[Jazzmammal]

"The SS is a killer game changing stage amp but it's not going to replace 10K (or more) of high end stereo equipment in your home."

 

^^^ I wouldn't say that too quickly , I see this new concept working everywhere! - both small and large in size etc.

 

Brett

 

That might actually be possible Brett. Right now we're talking about the amp that exists here and now but if Aspen decides to either license or build a high end home system based on this tech using the best components, it might sound really good. Hmmm, wonder if he could make a 7.1 decoder system and create that enveloping surround sound from a single source? That certainly would get rid of the problem of finding space for sat speakers not to mention all the wiring. Even if it's not quite as perfect as a high end sat system, there could be a market for it.

 

Bob

[HammondDave]

I would buy it only if it also made Margaritas.

 

It obviously already makes Kool-Aid (ouch!)... (Just kidding)

[MotiDave]

I have a few questions I haven't seen asked - for guys that use it as a monitor at venues wifh larger FOH mains.

 

- I didnt see pass-thrus on the ssv3- whats your approach to sending to FOH and ssv3? (i'm not savy, apologies - feel free to laugh while you explain your rig solution(s)). I have a small Mackey 4-channel powered mixer I was using at home to run mp3 with my keys for headphone practice, now I just run the mp3 thru the board analog input jacks. less control but less hassle - just an ipod and a chord.

 

- do you find you need a powered mixer for the ssv3? I've read on other forums that their line outs weren't hot enough and didn't like the ssv3 sound cranked higher to compensate for the low inputs

 

- if you run L/R to ssv3 - what do you do if you're playing in a house where FOH runs mono? what do you send to FOH

 

i'm getting close to pulling the trigger, but 90% of my gigs have big FOH with house sound engineers, etc etc ... the better ones I don't even bother to bring a stage amp as they can give me my own isolated monitor mix. some though can't give me my own mix on stage, and I need an amp near me to hear myself thru the drummer and guitarist (usually its them ... sometimes the bass player

 

hope these querstions are at least intelliglble, if not intelligent

[Raymb1]

The reference to the CPS site was for Aspen's explanation of the SS, not the sound samples.

[Raymb1]

The SS has a full range mono out that you can use for FOH.

 

[MathOfInsects]

Hey, Dave--

 

SS3 has two mono inputs--the L and R signals, respectively, from your keys or mixer--and one mono output, which is the Sub Out. The Sub out is a summed mono thru mix of everything coming in to the L and R inputs.

 

However you feed those L and R inputs--mixer or direct from keys--the Sub Out will supply FOH with a full-range mono mix if you choose to go that way.

 

If you're feeding more than one board to the SS3--and even if you're not--it helps to use a mixer. Think of it this way: without one, and with a monitor mix as your only stage sound, you're using the venue's sound man as your mixer. If you can't hear something, you're stuck either living with it or adjusting your board's volume...which is fucking up FOH sound. Eventually, dude's going to give up on you and pull you back FOH to a point where he doesn't have to worry about you.

 

So best to use your Mackie, even with one board. Most people--myself included--have found the SS3 easier to push reliably with a mixer in the signal path.

 

In that case, you'd send the mixer's Main outs to FOH. You'll ask sound guy for two DIs, and send him one from the L and one from the R of your Mains. You'll set these and forget them--get them sound checked and never touch them again.

 

Then you'll use your mixer's CR (Control Room) or Monitor outs to send signal from any and all boards to your SS3. Any volume adjustments you make, you'll make on this signal path, leaving the Mains alone. (You have the alternative of additional outs to FOH and SS3 depending on your board, but I'm going to assume this is not in play, or you wouldn't be asking about FOH vs stage monitor.)

 

This will give you control of your stage mix--same as any stage monitor, which is what the SS3 is. The reason to go with THIS stage monitor, is if your boards, patches, preferences and situation require more and better stage presence than you've had in the past. If you haven't run up against clunky or unpredictable stage sound, it's worth saying that this is not necessarily solving anything for you that *any stage monitor wouldn't solve.

 

Let me know if that helps. Best of luck.