How Casio could move up another level... Privia PX7?

[JeffLearman]

While we are at it....

http://www.carlomezzanotte.com/imm/CasioPX5sSmall.jpg

 

Since we're dreaming, ditch the three wasted keys at the bottom and add them at the top to make the perfect shorter keyboard!

[JeffLearman]

However, I don't think I should have to use external devices in 2014.

I'm starting to think the opposite way. As I've said over and over, my DP is long in the tooth, and the top contenders for replacement are PX-5S and MOX[F]8. For temporary budget reasons I can't upgrade just yet. I prefer the PX5S's key surface, especially living in the south and playing outside or in venues with inadequate cooling. The piano for either is good enough for me, as far as I can tell without gigging it. But the MOX has mono synth (which I use only rarely, but do like to have in the bag) and the MOXF has loadable sample memory.

 

But the more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to be convinced that there will be a notepad sound engine in my future. I already often use my Color Nook just for set list with my notes. Whatever keyboard I get, the sounds in it will be surpassed by future developments.

 

I'm beginning to think the best strategy for me (someone who buys and holds nearly forever) is to get the best controller (with good enough built-in sounds, as a backup or when I want less fuss) and look forward to using a tablet/pad for anything that's not built-in. (I'll continue to use the NE2 above the DP, though I might use VB3 rather than the NE2's organ.)

 

For this scenario, the PX5S is the killer in terms of price and features. With expression pedal input and music stand it would be even better! Also, USB audio I/O like the MOX -- that would be far more important to me than additional sounds (so the pad can use the PX5S as the soundcard).

 

I know this one is a long shot, but what the heck? I would love to have the sound module removable.

See above! I realize it's not quite as convenient, being an additional thing to set up and have flop around.

 

What would be really killer is an industry standard for a module like that, though I won't hold my breath. But imagine how nice it would be to choose the controller features from one company and the sound engine from another -- or any number of others, using software plugins, but with the convenience of an integrated keyboard. OK, I'm dreaming now.

[Ken Beaumont]

I recently bought a iLoud 40W bluetooth speaker that sounds really quite good. I have played the various iPad synths through it using a vortex keytar as a controller. It sounded so good for just jamming at home it got me to thinking. If I had a lightweight piano that ran on batteries like Casio's offerings and it had a built in bluetooth I could play it anywhere regardless of the availability power of power. I have played in a nursing home to lift some spirits and a setup like that would be perfect. Just a thought.

[AnotherScott]

the top contenders...are PX-5S and MOX[F]8

...

I prefer the PX5S's key surface

...

But the MOX has mono synth (which I use only rarely, but do like to have in the bag) and the MOXF has loadable sample memory.

...

the PX5S is the killer in terms of price and features. With expression pedal input and music stand it would be even better! Also, USB audio I/O like the MOX

 

The solution: Get a PX-5S and a MOXF6. The $500 you save by getting a MOXF6 instead of a MOXF8 pays for half the Casio, and you get the best of everything, with all the features you want! (Well, except the music stand.)

 

Okay, what about your NE2? Well, the only thing I think not equaled or bettered by the above is the organ, and you're thinking of going with VB3 anyway. (Or if you go with the iPad approach, you might be fine with Galileo.) Add a Korg NanoKontrol for drawbar control. Sell the NE2, and that pays for the other half of the Casio and then some.

 

[Bill H.]

Two things that I hope will be on the next model would be smoother acoustic piano samples in the area around C5 (the rest of the piano is fine) and a value dial next to the display for scrolling through stage settings and for editing. These would be two very modest improvements that would actually make a big difference in what's already a very strong keyboard.

 

And yes I know that you can change parameters on the display with the EQ knobs, but more than once I've inadvertently changed my EQ settings when in the wrong mode. Adding a dedicated value dial just makes things much simpler and more intuitive.

 

After that, everyone has their own wish list. Coming from a P&W player's viewpoint, I would like some decent choral and vocal samples and more DX style EPs - believe it or not. We still use them.

[Mike Martin]

and a value dial next to the display for scrolling through stage settings and for editing.

 

When you're in any edit screen Knob 2 is a "data entry" knob. You don't have to press the -/+ buttons 100 times just turn the knob.

 

Whoops, saw your second paragraph.

[EscapeRocks]

I know this one is a long shot, but what the heck? I would love to have the sound module removable. This way I could do sound design away from the full keyboard or just use the module if I want to use a smaller controller.

 

Not sure how feasible this is; I've never seen this done before.. but it sure would be cool.

 

This is just a quick mockup for illustration purposes.. I'm sure the tone gen takes up more space this this:

 

http://oi39.tinypic.com/xclp8l.jpg

 

 

 

Scott,

Cool idea. However, based on my completely disassembling my PX350 for paint, I'm not sure it could be done without major redesign and added cost, getting away from the beauty of the 5s. From the way I saw all the boards interconnected, I'm not sure how they would design a "stand alone" removable module.

 

BY the way, the unit is VERY well built inside. Almost overdone on screws holding things in place, as well as very good wire routing. I.e. nothing pinched or crammed .

[DulceLabs.com]

Scott,

Cool idea. However, based on my completely disassembling my PX350 for paint, I'm not sure it could be done without major redesign and added cost, getting away from the beauty of the 5s. From the way I saw all the boards interconnected, I'm not sure how they would design a "stand alone" removable module.

 

BY the way, the unit is VERY well built inside. Almost overdone on screws holding things in place, as well as very good wire routing. I.e. nothing pinched or crammed .

 

Oh yeah - it's a pie in the sky. It was more of a "what if" type of thing - nothing I expect can be done with current production models.

 

I do think ideas like this and what others have on their wish list are important to put out there though. The more we dream out loud, the more we can help push the state-of-art forward.

 

 

[vortmaxx]

While we are at it....

 

 

http://www.carlomezzanotte.com/imm/CasioPX5sSmall.jpg

 

[Mike Martin]

So I have to add the most important question these kinds thread.

 

How much MORE are you willing to pay for the extra features?

[Threadslayer]

 

Scott,

Cool idea. However, based on my completely disassembling my PX350 for paint, I'm not sure it could be done without major redesign and added cost, getting away from the beauty of the 5s. From the way I saw all the boards interconnected, I'm not sure how they would design a "stand alone" removable module.

 

BY the way, the unit is VERY well built inside. Almost overdone on screws holding things in place, as well as very good wire routing. I.e. nothing pinched or crammed .

 

Do you have any pix of the PX-350 disassembled? I'd be interested in looking under the hood. From the outside the build quality seems excellent - the inluded sostenuto pedal being an exception.

 

thanks

[Mike Martin]

PX-350 Paint Job (Dissembled)

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2546355/And_so_it_begins_Paint_project

[Threadslayer]

PX-350 Paint Job (Dissembled)

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2546355/And_so_it_begins_Paint_project

 

Thanks Mike. I actually saw the early part of that thread when it started but somehow didn't make the connection to the Privia... Gettin' old.

[marino]

So I have to add the most important question these kinds thread.

 

How much MORE are you willing to pay for the extra features?

Good question! I'll use my own "wish list" as an example:

 

- Internal power supply: No idea how much it would add to the total cost.

- I assume that a couple of continuous pedal inputs would NOT add that much.

- Making it responsive to half-pedaling, I guess it would be mainly a matter of software.

- Same with solo/unison mode.

- Having a smaller version (73/76) should *reduce* the cost, because of less hardware and lower shipping fares.

- Bigger screen and more knobs - yes, I guess that would add to the final price.

 

So if I say that such an upgraded instrument could be made for a MSRP of about 1250 US$, or around 1000 Euros, am I being too optimistic?!

 

 

[The Piano Man]

So I have to add the most important question these kinds thread.

 

How much MORE are you willing to pay for the extra features?

 

Internal power supply

76 hammer action keys

4 Audio outs with routing of sounds (jack will do but one jack pair plus one xlr pair would be awesome)

 

Everything else as it is on PX5s

 

£1000 (uk sterling)

[zahush76]

In the vast majority of cases, you get what you pay for.

A sub $1000 keyboard will never compare to competitor boards by other vendors selling for over $4000.

 

I'm not sure what you'll achieve by comparing a keyboard like the PX-5S (1000$) to something like the Nord Stage 2 (4200$), just as an example.

But here's another option for comparison which is a lot more "eye opening" imho.

Please compare the 1000$ PX-5S, to the Nord Piano 2 which costs 3000$, and now tell me what you think. What do you actually get for 3 times the price, compared to the PX-5s?

Acoustic piano vs acoustic piano, ep's vs ep's, controller capabilities (+ pitch & mod wheels etc), synth engine, and so on.

Isn't it even more ridiculous when you put these two side by side?

[Bill H.]

So I have to add the most important question these kinds thread.

 

How much MORE are you willing to pay for the extra features?

 

For the features I want? I'd go an extra $300 or so.

 

For the features they want? Meh...

 

I guess that's the problem with this sort of thing...

[AnotherScott]

Please compare the 1000$ PX-5S, to the Nord Piano 2 which costs 3000$, and now tell me what you think. What do you actually get for 3 times the price, compared to the PX-5s?

Acoustic piano vs acoustic piano, ep's vs ep's, controller capabilities (+ pitch & mod wheels etc), synth engine, and so on.

 

It makes no sense to compare the PX-5S to an NP2 in terms of controller capabilities and synth engine, because the NP2 isn't designed to do those things. Heck, you might as well put the $1000 PX-5S next to a $50k grand piano. The piano has no controller capabilities or synth engine, what kind of rube would pay $50k for that? ;-)

 

The PX-5S is a good board, and a good value. I can see someone picking it as the best choice in their budget, or the best single board that has the exact functionality they want (some combination of piano, synth, MIDI controller with a nice action in a super-portable package). But strictly as a piano, I think the NP2 beats the PX-5S. If you need a MIDI controller and synth engine, then the NP2 is the wrong board to buy (at least by itself). If you need something to load custom samples or something that has a library of mellotron sounds, then the PX-5S would be the wrong board to buy. But if you're going to filter out their extraneous capabilities and just focus on them as stage pianos, I'd take the Nord. It's a matter of opinion as to whether it's worth 3x more, but then you're kind of back to the Casio being good "for the money" which no one disputes.

 

[DanL]

with the Nord piano you get an ever growing library of great sounds you can custom load to create the keyboard you need. It's a different market than what the Casio is going after, with it's synth capabilities. There really is no comparision except they both make piano sounds and have 88 keys.

 

I'd say the Casio is competing more against the Yamaha/Korg lower end boards like the MOX and Krome. Then it comes down to the soundset and other features that you require.

[stoken6]

I[/b] want? I'd go an extra $300 or so.

 

For the features they want? Meh...

 

I guess that's the problem with this sort of thing...

+1.

 

If I indulge in a little speculation, I reckon it makes sense for the next PX to have

- Expression pedal input

- A XW-P1-style organ engine

But not have

- internal power supply

- 73 keys

 

Which is a shame for my particular desires, but you can't have everything...

 

Regards, Mike.

 

 

[Ken Beaumont]

Yes, I think the most needed incremental improvement would definitely be an expression pedal. Other improvements might be better (bigger) buttons the spaced a little further apart and a slightly better LCD display. And how hard could it be to take the 3 pedal unit from the PX-350 change the connector and sell portable a pedal unit that supports half pedaling? That and a maybe the XW-P1 organ.

 

Except for the organ, these can all be done relatively cheaply since they could be applied to the whole Privia line.

[zahush76]

Please compare the 1000$ PX-5S, to the Nord Piano 2 which costs 3000$, and now tell me what you think. What do you actually get for 3 times the price, compared to the PX-5s?

Acoustic piano vs acoustic piano, ep's vs ep's, controller capabilities (+ pitch & mod wheels etc), synth engine, and so on.

 

It makes no sense to compare the PX-5S to an NP2 in terms of controller capabilities and synth engine, because the NP2 isn't designed to do those things.

 

Of course they are different instruments, just as much as comparing the PX-5s to korg and yamaha boards that has "workstation" capabilities.

The comparison was more in the lines of - "where would 1000$ get you in Nord-land, and where will it get you in Casio-land". It seems that 1000$ won't get you anywhere in "Nord Land".

[AnotherScott]

It makes no sense to compare the PX-5S to an NP2 in terms of controller capabilities and synth engine, because the NP2 isn't designed to do those things.

 

Of course they are different instruments, just as much as comparing the PX-5s to korg and yamaha boards that has "workstation" capabilities.

 

Exactly. You wouldn't say a Kross is a better piano than a PX5S at the same price simply by virtue of its being a workstation. It may or may not be a better keyboard for someone's purposes, and if you need a workstation, you're not going to buy the PX-5S... but whether one board is better than the other at the functions they have in common has nothing to do with whether the board also does something else.

 

The comparison was more in the lines of - "where would 1000$ get you in Nord-land, and where will it get you in Casio-land". It seems that 1000$ won't get you anywhere in "Nord Land".

 

Quite true. Nord doesn't have low cost boards. And in general, Casio is known for giving you the most value for dollar. Nord, umm, isn't. But that doesn't mean a Nord isn't worth buying, for those who like and can afford it. Toyota and BMW both have their markets.

[zahush76]

I'll give another angle. How i got to consider the PX-5s. I still didn't buy one, but really considering getting it. I had a Nord Stage 2 76 which ended up serving as a midi controller in my home studio. I'm not gigging anymore so i found myself using the Nord as a controller - for sounds i found to be much better for my taste (such as scarbee for ep's, Galaxy for acoustic pianos, M-Tron pro for mellotron sounds, VB3 for hammond sounds, etc. You get the picture).

So i sold the Nord Stage 2. The money i got for it eventually went for the SE Omega8. But now i'm with a lame 61 controller and looking for a great 88 controller.

So there are low end 88 controllers, such as m-audio's, and stuff like that. The action is a joke, the velocity response is weird, and you probably know all of this already.

So i look up to see what's in the "high" range. On one hand there's the akai mpk-88. Action is very stiff, the thing is huge and eats a lot of desktop space. Not for me. On another end of the "high" 88 controllers there's the Roland A-88.

And now i begin to wonder. For 999$ i can get the Roland A-88, which has an ok action feel, 88 keys, and that's about it.

When i compare that to the PX-5s, then i begin to say "why should i throw 999$ for controllers which action i don't like and are capable of being just controllers - when for the same money i can get the PX-5s which has better action than all of those 1k controllers, but also has good sounds in case i'd want to play or jam once in a while?".

Really, what doesn't make sense here is why the roland A-88 costs 999$, and who in a sane mind would buy something like that when he could get something like the PX-5s.

[AnotherScott]

Really, what doesn't make sense here is why the roland A-88 costs 999$, and who in a sane mind would buy something like that when he could get something like the PX-5s.

I agree, the PX-5S practically eliminates any reason for the A88 to exist. The only real advantage I see to it is that it has two expression pedal inputs (vs. none). Other than that, the PX5S has much more functionality overall, plus built in sounds, plus lighter travel weight, and what seems to generally be considered a better action.

 

I even have a hard time seeing why someone would choose an RD64 over a PX5S, though I understand some people may want something 8" less wide, or prefer the Roland piano sound.

[JeffLearman]

- Having a smaller version (73/76) should *reduce* the cost, because of less hardware and lower shipping fares.

Maybe, maybe not.

 

Adding a variation increases development, testing, and even manufacturing costs more than you might think. Adding a 76-key model would be likely to increase the cost of the 88-key version for this reason. Whether Casio would choose to price the 76-key version lower is up to them. Frankly, I think that most folks who want 76 keys don't want it for the reduced price as much as the reduced footprint, and might be willing to pay the same price as the 88-key version (or nearly as much).

 

My point is the fact that the 76-key version has fewer parts doesn't necessarily make it cheaper. Oddly, it could make it more expensive. It's a lot cheaper to just make chocolate than both chocolate and vanilla. Casio sells a LOT of 88-key hammer action keyboards and probably shares a lot of parts among them. How many 76-key hammer action products does Casio have? Are they compatible with the PX5S action?

[AnotherScott]

I think that most folks who want 76 keys don't want it for the reduced price as much as the reduced footprint, and might be willing to pay the same price as the 88-key version (or nearly as much).

Along those lines... for quite a while now, the 76 and 88 key versions of the Nord Stage 2 have cost the same.

[Mike Martin]

Casio sells a LOT of 88-key hammer action keyboards and probably shares a lot of parts among them. How many 76-key hammer action products does Casio have?

 

Zero.

[Bif_]

Casio sells a LOT of 88-key hammer action keyboards and probably shares a lot of parts among them. How many 76-key hammer action products does Casio have?

 

Zero.

 

Therefore based on what I know about manufacturing, a 76 key instrument from Casio would likely cost significantly more than the 88 key version.

 

[JeffLearman]

Well, that's a marketing decision. But it would clearly cost Casio more to make it, which is probably what you meant.

 

In the days when the 88-key boards had 8" to the left for floppy disk drive and wheels, a 76 key board made a lot of sense. It's far less critical now that 88-key boards like the Privia are the same length as my MR76. I'm really looking forward to having 88 keys in the same footprint I now have with 76!

 

Still, if the 88 doesn't fit in the car and a 76 would ... I just don't expect to see that coming from Casio any time soon.

 

Along those lines... for quite a while now, the 76 and 88 key versions of the Nord Stage 2 have cost the same.

I hadn't noticed that, but I'm not surprised.