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How Casio could move up another level... Privia PX7?


The Piano Man

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I finally had a chance to try out a Casio PX5s and I was mightily impressed. For the money, it is an excellent product in my opinion. I am impressed how Casio steps it up with each new Privia they release. Here's how I think they could move up yet another level

 

Two new core piano samples

- A new "concert grand" with a warm, full bodied sound (think Roland supernatural)

- A new "bright grand" with a hammer like attack that cuts through (think Yamaha high end)

 

4 audio outputs

- this would give greater flexibility to make use of the excellent layering and zoning options in the PX5s

 

XLR outs

- would be great to have a pair of XLR outs like you get on the high end pianos from Yamaha, Roland and Korg

 

Built in power supply with standard kettle lead slot

- wallwarts are not cool, I don't care what anyone says

- the mark of a pro board is picking up any standard kettle lead and firing it straight in

 

All black design

 

Option of a 76 key model with hammer action and pitch bend/mod wheels above the keys

 

As the PX5s is currently just 10.8kg, one would imagine Casio could offer all of the above in a pro board at under 15kg and £1000 (uk sterling)

 

They would have a killer board on their hands

 

Feel free to add anything else you would like to see. Thoughts from Mike Martin would be great if he gets a chance but I appreciate he is a busy man!

Kurzweil PC3x

Technics SX-P50

Korg X3

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Maybe I missed it in your post but there was talk about wanting an expression pedal connection as well.

 

Yes, the things that seem most often requested are expression pedal, half-damper support for the sustain pedal (at least over on the pianoworld forum), and a monophonic mode for single-line synth parts, though I think the issue there isn't simply just that there's no mono mode, but (AFAIK) there's kind of no "solo synth" functionality in the board at all. I don't think there's portamento in it, either, for example, and mono mode without portamento would be kinda lame anyway. The XW-P1 has hexlayer and solo synth, and the PX-5S really lacks that other "engine" altogether, so I don't think it's as simple as saying "hey, add a mono mode."

 

What I'd really like to see in the next generation is some flash for (semi-)permanent download of new samples, that would be a great feature, say, 64 mb. It could be used for your own samples, those of others users, or possible new sounds in the future from Casio or third party libraries. (Casio has already dabbled with this technology at least in the XW-G1.)

 

Other than that, I'd like to see some improvements to the interface and ergonomics. I've only played with it sporadically, but it's taking me longer than typical to get comfortable with it. Part of it is the lack of physical differentiation in the buttons, part of it is the layout, and I think part of it is just the basic architecture. (And maybe some of that is also that I think it just doesn't really lend itself to working the way I like to work.)

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I love these product development threads. Casio is selling the PX5 as a stage piano/controller, not a do-everything instrument. Check the PX5 manual. For instance, I play a PX330 and it supports half pedal. There may be other features beneath the surface. Their XW-P1 is a great synth engine. Get it (or its sister XW-G1) if you want excellent synth adventures. I would like to be able to introduce new sounds on a memory card - for instance use the B3 tones from the XW-P1 via a card. :)
"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."
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All good suggestions... I'll pick the ones which look essential to me:

 

Built in power supply with standard kettle lead slot

- wallwarts are not cool, I don't care what anyone says

- the mark of a pro board is picking up any standard kettle lead and firing it straight in

 

Option of a 76 key model with hammer action and pitch bend/mod wheels above the keys

 

an expression pedal connection as well.
Make that two, please.

 

half-damper support for the sustain pedal and a monophonic mode for single-line synth parts,

I'd only add a slightly better UI (bigger screen, more/bigger knobs, a more logical programming organization) to design an almost-perfect instrument. :)

 

 

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1) 73/76 keys w/ weighted Hammer action--crucial for easy transport in any vehicle

2) Dual assignable expression pedal inputs

3) new Clav Samples for all 4 pick-up positions

4) slightly larger back-lit screen

 

optional:

Flash User Sample memory

 

----------------------------------------------------------

 

Gig: Yamaha MODX7, NumaX 73 Piano  Studio: Kawai ES-920; Hammond SK Pro 73; Yamaha Motif ES7 w/DX,VL,VH; Yamaha YC 73; Kawai MP-6; Numa Compact 2x

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I think a true upright sample would be a great addition. It would also set Casio apart from most other manufacturers.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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I love these product development threads. Casio is selling the PX5 as a stage piano/controller, not a do-everything instrument.

Actually, it seems like the PX-5s synth engine is more complex than that of the XW's. It has been said a number of times that it seems like the PX-5s is a great synthesizer that just also happens to be a stage piano.

 

Anyway, let's go with your "the PX-5S isn;t supposed to be a do everything instrument, and just a stage piano".

As a stage piano it would be reasonable to want stuff like expression pedal input, perhaps aftertouch etc. Stuff like that (along with wish lists about the power supply or new piano samples) aren't what i call "wanting the PX-5s to be a do everything instrument". They are all features that are very stage piano specific. So perhaps i'm missing your point.

Vermona Perfourmer mkii, Nord Stage 3 76
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I'm always leery of reviews of instruments where I read something like this:

"...a Casio PX5s and I was mightily impressed. For the money..."

 

If an instrument is only good "for the money," then I consider it to be crap for, say, 50% more, and that makes it crap.

 

I will state that I black-and-white instruments: either they're good, or they're crap. There's no middle ground. As a musician, I don't pay a gig as good as the price I'm being paid; I go out and do the best job I can whether it's a 10-dollar wedding for a friend, or 300 dollar wedding, or a 500 dollar gig. They don't get a performance that's good "for the money," they get the whole enchilada regardless.

 

So I've never had the opportunity to play a PX-5S, and a comment like that makes me hesitant to, because that it seems it's only a good enough DP "for the money."

 

..Joe

Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4.
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I'm always leery of reviews of instruments where I read something like this:

"...a Casio PX5s and I was mightily impressed. For the money..."

 

If an instrument is only good "for the money," then I consider it to be crap for, say, 50% more, and that makes it crap.

 

I see your point, but I think the issue is truly not that simple. The cost to quality ratio determines value, and that's a real important factor for those on a budget. If not, I'm sure tons of folks would be gigging with CP1s and Roland V pianos.

 

Also, a huge factor in the Casio's usefulness is the weight. When you have these two choices: 1) Gig with an excellent sounding but heavy ass stage piano vs 2) Gig with a pretty good sounding but wonderfully light and easy to handle Casio, the later will win quite often.

 

That said, you made it clear that you want the very best sounds, seemingly regardless of these other factors. I understand your POV for sure and tend to feel that way myself. For others however, the issue isn't that simple.

Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

 

My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section

https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native

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In the vast majority of cases, you get what you pay for.

A sub $1000 keyboard will never compare to competitor boards by other vendors selling for over $4000.

 

It seems by your rationale, then, that Keyboard magazine should't even bother reviewing the cheaper offerings? That would be quite exclusionary to us hobbyists who can't or won't shell out $$$ for the 'best'.

 

This discussion went on ad nauseum on the VR 09 thread. IMHO there is nothing wrong with a little of value, which has to come at the expense of something-features, sounds, or build quality. To simply ignore the cheaper board would be unfair to those seeking a clonewheel in that price range. To compare it side by side with a Hammond SK-1 or Nord Stage 2 without making reference to the vastly different price points would also be unfair.

 

I have had my PX 5S for less than a week and have just scratched the surface. I am amazed at what this board can do, regardless of price. To me the added value is just a windfall. Seriously have a look at the various demos and have a look at the Casio forums see what people are doing with it and judge the board on its own merits regardless of the value.

 

 

Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8

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If ever there was a backhanded compliment, it's that something sounds (surprisingly) good for the money. Translation: I fully expected this thing to suck but it's passable. Either something sounds good or it doesn't; money should not be a determining factor. The question of value is something else entirely.
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It DOES have portamento, great lead synthe sounds, but, alas, no mono mode.
Right -- all they would need is mono key assignment algorithm. Many players would want to choose between the three (lowest, highest, last), but I'd be delighted with just last-note priority.

 

I'm glad there's room in the market for affordable keyboards that are less than perfect. Despite having a great job with a decent income, the only time I've ever justified spending top dollar for the best-in-class was when I got my CP70, and that was only because I found it (ab)used for barely more than half the price.

 

I got a lot of great use out of my Juno 60. I did have a JX10 that was a great keyboard, but IIRC there was another at the time (was it the Sequential T8?) that I much preferred, but at a price point I couldn't afford. (Plus I got the JX10 used.)

 

I'm *delighted* that there is a thriving market for great, affordable keyboards even if they're not best-in-class.

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I'm always leery of reviews of instruments where I read something like this:

"...a Casio PX5s and I was mightily impressed. For the money..."

 

If an instrument is only good "for the money," then I consider it to be crap for, say, 50% more, and that makes it crap.

...

So I've never had the opportunity to play a PX-5S, and a comment like that makes me hesitant to

I understand your perspective. I think "for the money" is a valuable distinction because many/most people consider price when shopping. But to possibly allay some of your fears, I'd say that the PX-5S is the best weighted action MIDI controller you can find under 30 lbs, regardless of price. It's got a nice action, and a lot of programmable flexibility. (And it happens to have a bunch of usable sounds, too.)

 

Okay, now you can say "If an instrument is only good 'for the size and weight' and would be crap at much higher size and weight, then its crap," but now you see it's really a matter of what your shopping parameters are.

 

If you want the best 88-key MIDI controller you can get regardless of size and weight, the PX-5S isn't it. But I'm not willing to travel with a Kurzweil PC3K8 (or Motif XF8 or Kronos 88) at more than double the weight. (I would pick any of those over the Casio from strictly a functionality or sound perspective. But to Casio's particular credit, I wouldn't necessarily prefer their actions.)

 

The point is there's always a compromise, and gear selection is always done within certain parameters. There is probably no single thing the PX-5S is the absolute best at, regardless of weight or price. But it is a pretty nice package looked at from either a price perspective or a portability perspective.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I'm always leery of reviews of instruments where I read something like this:

"...a Casio PX5s and I was mightily impressed. For the money..."

 

If an instrument is only good "for the money," then I consider it to be crap for, say, 50% more, and that makes it crap.

If ever there was a backhanded compliment, it's that something sounds (surprisingly) good for the money. Translation: I fully expected this thing to suck but it's passable. Either something sounds good or it doesn't; money should not be a determining factor. The question of value is something else entirely.
I agree with statements like these. However, that's not what was said about the PX-5S. For example, here are two quotes from the Keyboard mag review.

 

Bottom Line

 

A first class digital piano, with a powerful synth engine and deep editing, that checks in at 24 pounds and a thousand bucks? Its not too good to be true. Dont buy a new stage piano until you try the PX-5S.

 

Conclusions

 

Even if the PX-5S cost twice as much, its awesome sounds, deep editing, and generous (and usefully programmed) realtime controls would make it a prime contender for any gigging musicians next purchase of a main keyboard that inhabits the bottom (or only) tier on the stand. That said, the feather weight means you could easily put it on top. We applaud the Casio engineers and designers and their expanding commitment to manufacturing lightweight, affordable keyboards that seriously kick butt, and award the PX-5S our Key Buy for outstanding value.

 

That's very different than "it's good for the money."

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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If ever there was a backhanded compliment, it's that something sounds (surprisingly) good for the money. Translation: I fully expected this thing to suck but it's passable. Either something sounds good or it doesn't; money should not be a determining factor. The question of value is something else entirely.
If value is something else, then what is it?

 

To me, value is overall quality and features divided by price.

 

A lot of the value pianos sound very good for the money. The most expensive DPs are a bit disappointing, for the money. Which is best for a given person? It depends on the budget, among other things.

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There is a lot I like about this keyboard. If they could get better organ sounds it would be much more usable. I realize that it's wasn't a clone-wheel when I bought it though. Trying to compete with the Nords, Hammonds, Crumar, etc might not be possible. So I will bring two Keyboards to a gig when possible.

 

The funny thing is that sometimes once you buy something, not too much longer, that company will release a better and improved product.

 

I still like my Casio and I'm just beginning to understand it better.

Nord electro 3 73, Casio Px-5s, Yamaha SY-85, A&H ZED FX mixer, 2 QSC K8.2s
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I love these product development threads.

 

Me too!

 

For instance, I play a PX330 and it supports half pedal.

 

Clarification. The PX-330 support half pedaling with the SP-32 pedalboard which must be used with the CS-67 stand.

-Mike Martin

 

Casio

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The Big Picture Photography Forum on Music Player Network

 

The opinions I post here are my own and do not represent the company I work for.

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So I've never had the opportunity to play a PX-5S, and a comment like that makes me hesitant to, because that it seems it's only a good enough DP "for the money."

 

..Joe

 

Joe,it's easy. Play it. Listen to it. Then form an informed opinion. Even if you hate it,you'll at least know why. Conjecture is useless.

 

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A lot of the value pianos sound very good for the money. The most expensive DPs are a bit disappointing, for the money.

I agree 100% with this, which is essentially why I returned the Yamaha CP4 and (re)purchased a PX-5S. The CP4 has very good piano/EP sounds and action - better than the Casio's - but when I analyzed the package in more detail, it wasn't worth twice the price of the PX, due, mainly, to too many technical compromises.

 

I am currently experimenting using the Casio with Pianoteq 4.5 with Bluethner and EP add-ons, and the results are exceptionally good. If I can get a Surface Pro to work with Pianoteq, I'll have a lightweight gig rig that will blow almost anything else out of the water, pianistically, (although the lack of half-pedaling is a hindrance).

 

However, I don't think I should have to use external devices in 2014. The onboard sounds in the PX-5 are acceptable, but any future PX-7 should have new, unlooped piano samples (preferably of more than one instrument), with at least double the number of velocity layers for both APs and EPs. Other improvements for me would be:

Half-pedaling

Differentiated buttons - it's way too easy to hit the "bank" button when you intend to press a low-numbered stage setting.

A way to scroll quickly through the banks

A clearly marked volume knob

Zone on/off switches

A method of applying a single edit parameter to multiple stage settings without having to menu dive for each patch (maybe the editor app can achieve this, but I haven't used it yet).

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I know this one is a long shot, but what the heck? I would love to have the sound module removable. This way I could do sound design away from the full keyboard or just use the module if I want to use a smaller controller.

 

Not sure how feasible this is; I've never seen this done before.. but it sure would be cool. :)

 

This is just a quick mockup for illustration purposes.. I'm sure the tone gen takes up more space this this:

 

http://oi39.tinypic.com/xclp8l.jpg

 

 

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Joe,it's easy. Play it. Listen to it. Then form an informed opinion. Even if you hate it,you'll at least know why. Conjecture is useless.

 

Actually, the reason I haven't played it is simply because I don't need to: The Kronos 88 fulfills all my piano needs for the foreseeable future, and I owned and moved on from the XW synth because of its lack of aftertouch, aliasing in the higher registers, and terrible keybed.

 

It's never a weight issue for me: I really don't want to open that can of worms because I'll probably inadvertently insult a whole bunch of people, but for me the weight of a keyboard simply cannot be a factor in deciding its ownership or not. After gigging for years with a Hammond C3, even my long-gone and terribly missed Prophet-10 was a comparable lightweight.

 

..Joe

Setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88, Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Alesis QSR, Roland M-GS64 Yamaha KX-88, KX76, Roland Super-JX, E-Mu Longboard 61, Kawai K1II, Kawai K4.
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