HX3 MIDI expander module

[ob1]

I received my HX3 MK4 in the mail on Saturday and got to spend some quality time with it yesterday.

 

Upfront, I wasn't "feeling" it with the internal rotary but through the GSI Burn it was truly amazing - (perhaps I need much more time with tweaking the HX3). The HX3 is completely different (just sounds different) than anything else I use (GSI VB3 software, Hammond XM2, Roland VR-09, Roland VR-700 and a Nord Stage 2 at church).

 

Would it be helpful to record comparisons between the various instruments I use? It will take some time but I can try to come up with something that illustrates the differences between the various instruments. If you prefer to listen to any particular chord progression, feel free to PM me a MIDI file of something you played (single manual) and let me know how it should be set up (V/C, Perc, drawbar settings, etc.).

 

I was going back and forth between the HX3 and the VR-700 yesterday (just because I have them together). In the HX3, the harmonics that can be heard with the fundamental frequency of each drawbar are a lot more rich than what I hear in the VR-700 (something I had noticed between the VR-09 and the Nord Stage about a year ago). With each note, it felt like the composition of the harmonics changed; compared with the VR where it seemed constant. The leakage was something else that seems to change from note to note; where with the VR, it appears to be the same "leakage" noise added, regardless of the notes played. The key click, static, whatever you want to call it, when each note is pressed is also so very different than the VR - it has the "woody" feel that I experience with my 1954 C2; something that I had only experienced with the VB3. I couldn't stop playing the HX3!

 

Let me know if it would be helpful to provide recordings of compares.

 

Luis.

[mate stubb]

Let me know if it would be helpful to provide recordings of compares.

 

Of course it would!

[Delaware Dave]

The real question for me is "how does it sound as compared to your C2"? Most of the clones are bright, sounding more like late 60's hammonds (like my L100P does). I prefer the more mellow sound like my 57 B3. So I'd be interesting in understanding whether the tone is more mellow (dark) or bright as compared to the C2. I have a Vent so if the leslie doesn't cut it, I don't necessarily care as the Vent will take care of that although I would like to be able to leave the Vent at home and am hoping that the internal leslie is good enough.

[Dave Osoff]

I have never been able to get my SK1 to inspire me either. I've tried Jim's tonewheel settings, tried it through a few leslies as well as my Vent, and just haven't felt it the way I do with the HX3 expander... I've been holding on to the SK1-73 and using it just as a controller for the HX3 Expander. But now I'm seriously planning to sell it and get a UX-1 or UX-2 when they are available to US customers this summer.

 

The HX3 has been a game changer for me as well and all the UHL videos posted so far sound fantastic. Wolfgang supposedly has tweaked the leslie effect ever more from the Carsten's settings, so I would love to hear more demos with the leslie opened up more with a bunch of different drawbar settings.

 

For anyone using the HX3 Expander, remember it's a stereo effect, so use the Rotary L/R setting and run both audio jacks into a stereo amp or PA to get the full effect. It sounds quite good - it hasn't made me stop using my Vent yet, but I also haven't tweaked it very much at this point.

[ob1]

The real question for me is "how does it sound as compared to your C2"? ...

 

Unfortunately, that is going to be difficult to answer in that I don't have an instrument interface for my Leslie 22H to compare between the C2 and the HX3. I spent most of the time yesterday playing through M-Audio BX5 monitors and my trusty Sony MDR-7506's. What I can say is that there are characteristics to the sound of my C2 that I heard in the HX3/Monitors. The best I can do for now is compare between the clones.

 

Hope this helps.

[M_G]

 

Hi HX-Fans,

 

it's really worth tweaking the Leslie Sim parameters and there are even more in the remote software. I loved using the Vent with my SK and XK3 but its not necessary with the UhL or Expander. I sold both, Vent 1 and 2...

 

 

[ABECK]

The HX3 is completely different (just sounds different) than anything else I use (GSI VB3 software, Hammond XM2, Roland VR-09, Roland VR-700 and a Nord Stage 2 at church).

 

Is it possible to drive the HX3 from the VR-09, including high trigger point and drawbar functionality? (I'm not sure if the drawbars output anything over MIDI).

 

[TomKittel]

The real question for me is "how does it sound as compared to your C2"? Most of the clones are bright, sounding more like late 60's hammonds (like my L100P does). I prefer the more mellow sound like my 57 B3. So I'd be interesting in understanding whether the tone is more mellow (dark) or bright as compared to the C2. I have a Vent so if the leslie doesn't cut it, I don't necessarily care as the Vent will take care of that although I would like to be able to leave the Vent at home and am hoping that the internal leslie is good enough.

 

It really depends on the tapering setting of the HX3 (or U-X3). You have the choice between "1955", "1972" and "Recapped" organs. The 1955 setting is the most mellow setting and "Recapped" the brightest. In addition to that the "Tone" dial also changes the sound from bright to dark. As to the HX3 rotary simulation I like the internal HX3 sim even better than the Vent. And it is customizable to your own taste.

[Mitch Towne]

The "Tone Trim Pot" function of the HX3 ostensibly simulates the tone control knob on the A028, which is essentially a high cut. Additionally, the "Swell Trim Cap" function adjusts the output level of the A028 like the trim cap in the swell pedal control on a Hammond. According the manual, "higher values add more punch and output transformer saturation effects."

[ob1]

Is it possible to drive the HX3 from the VR-09, including high trigger point and drawbar functionality? (I'm not sure if the drawbars output anything over MIDI).

 

The VR-09's high trigger point works great when driving the VB3, therefore it would work with the HX3; (the VR-700's high trigger point works great with the HX3). Unfortunately, HOWEVER, the drawbars send midi sysex data only; no CC. In-other-words, the VR's are worthless to control other organs. Sorry!

[ob1]

...You have the choice between "1955", "1972" and "Recapped" organs...

 

There is now a "1961" version with the newest version; which is the one I was drawn to.

 

...As to the HX3 rotary simulation I like the internal HX3 sim even better than the Vent. And it is customizable to your own taste...

 

Tom - other than ramp up/down, speeds and balance; all I saw was "throb" and "spread". I cranked up the throb all the way and spread all the way and didn't grab me. To Dave O's point, I did have the AudioJ configured to Rotary L/R. Any insight on your parameter values would be greatly appreciated. The recordings Carsten had up to compare HX3/Vent sounded really good for the HX3. I'm probably missing something.

 

I installed the HX Remote - had the software recognize the device (lists the license and s/n info) but I could not get any parameters based on the preset I was on. Again - I'm sure I"m missing something. My version is 3.806. Thank you.

[Dave Osoff]

I use the 1961 setting also. In regard to the remote software, did you try using the "read parameters" function? If that doesn't work you what you can always import the Organ and Leslie defaults from the HX3 remote software folder, make adjustments from there, hear it in real time and then save a copy and write them to the device when you are done

[Delaware Dave]

Sounds like an HX3 tips and tricks topic needs to be started. I'd be interested in someone posting the leslie sim adjustments to that topic, both for stereo and for mono.

[bill bosco]

I'm waiting to hear from wolfgang also , I'm getting on the line

for the next run of x3-2's in july .

[LX88]

I hav been following this thread but am also fairly confused regarding trying to put together concrete information about this latest offering from Germany....

 

I THINK that I understand that this is (HX3) is available as a module, correct?

 

If that much is true, than what can be used to control it? When I used a VK8m, it was relatively easy to get a controller to run it.

 

If I recall, the company that produces the Mojo had come out with a dual manual controller recently. What about using that with this module?

 

To me a module makes more sense than having an internal computer, which always made me shy away from the Mojo, given my history with computers.

 

Any way it is good to see that this new offering is generating interest and good reports.

 

 

[Dave Osoff]

LX88 - The HX3 is available as a module (HX3 Expander) and also is now available as the sound engine for the new UHL X3-1 and X3-2 organs. I own the HX3 midi Expander and love it. I also just purchased the new Crumar / GSI DMC-122 dual manual controller that you mentioned in your post. They are a fantastic combination. The action is smooth and fast, all drawbars, buttons, potentiometers are assignable to any midi CC function as well as Global functions. I sold my Mojo to get this controller as I thought it would be a better fit for my needs and I'm very happy with the choice.

[Dave Osoff]

Here's a pic of the DMC-122 with the HX3 Expander on the top right and my Kronos X61 on the upper tier. Also under the Expander is the GSI accessory shelf that expands the surface area of the controller for modules, etc.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz0jqSemJOScQ0d2WmxvdXotQnM/view?usp=sharing

[mate stubb]

Nice rig!

[Doerfler]

Nice rig!

 

Seriously.

[Kurt W]

Yes it is available as a module, HX3 Expander. Controlled via standard midi, has 2 midi ports. Partly programmable via LCD and rotary knob on front panel and via mini-usb port on back panel and a "remote application" running on Windows.

Preprogrammed for control by Voce Drawbar unit, Hammond XK/SK, Mojo and can be programmed via the remote app for other masterkeyboards. The Crumar DMC should be a good fit.

Got a unit yesterday and control it by a SK1. First impression is that it is more authentic than the SK1 in every department. But we are talking about nuances that probably will be of no significance in a live situation for any others than B3 fanatics....

[ABECK]

Hey Dave, that looks real sweet. I must say, I am tempted by the DMC/HX3 combo. Need to save some more nickels.

 

 

[Mitch Towne]

But we are talking about nuances that probably will be of no significance in a live situation for any others than B3 fanatics....

 

I disagree. The nuances all come together to be very significant in a live situation. When you go to play something and the whole sound is "there," that makes all the difference.

[M_G]

But we are talking about nuances that probably will be of no significance in a live situation for any others than B3 fanatics....

 

I disagree. The nuances all come together to be very significant in a live situation. When you go to play something and the whole sound is "there," that makes all the difference.

 

I am just back from band rehearsals and played the X3-2 and the SK1-73 side by side today....

As Mitch wrote: the "nuances" make the difference! And even our drummer turned his head..... ;-)

The SK sounded thin and sterile (I sold my Vent so I used the internal sim) in comparison, couldn't stand the sound...

 

[Dave Osoff]

Those nuances make all the difference to me and my performance. Most of the audience won't notice the difference in the organ tone, percussion, A028, crosstalk, etc but they will certainly notice an inspired performance!

[Josh Paxton]

Partly programmable via LCD and rotary knob on front panel and via mini-usb port on back panel and a "remote application" running on Windows.

 

 

This is the only area of concern for me. Is there a Mac version of the remote app? Not only do I not run Windows, but I don't think I even know anyone who does. But assuming I could find someone to bring their laptop to my house for an hour, are the "app" parameters pretty much the kind that you go through once, set them how you like them, and then forget about them?

[Dave Osoff]

I had the same concerns when I bnought my HX3 - I only run Mac. Luckily I know someone in tech who refurbishes and resells windows computers. He gave a Dell just so I could use he software. I tried running the Remote software on my Mac using the Wine Application and got the software to open and run but I couldn't get it to recognize the device through the USB cable. That could easily be my inexperience with the the Wine Windows software on the MAC, not sure.

 

In any event, unless you are setting up some custom CC sets for your controller, most of the other functions are available on the menu and the extended parameters would most likely be set them, save them and forget them once you're done. Any comments - MG?

 

[M_G]

 

No, there is no Mac version.....

 

You can edit a lot of parameters via the display on the expander itself.

The remote software is necessary for firmware, fpga and scancore updates or setting up midi cc sets.

Time to buy a cheap windows computer ?!

;-))

[Dave Osoff]

Ha - you beat me to it!

 

 

[LX88]

Thanks to Dave Osoff for answering most of my questions.

 

Pricewise, the DMC 122 ( 1490 dollars) and the HX-3 look like a winning combination. Coprrect me if I am wrong but I am seeing the HX-3 module for 695 Euros, which right now is about 750 dollars.

 

That would beat the Mojo by a few hundred bucks.The Mojo is actually a good deal compared to some other dual manuals.

 

I would hope that the DMC 122 will accept the Yamaha FC-7 expression pedal and a common footswitch for leslie switching.

 

One final question. Which important parameters can be accessed on the fly by the module? Please tell me you can get percussion volume , overdrive and some of the usual suspects.

 

One of the things I have liked about having a Numa is that . bass level, overdrive and volume are all on the right side.

I can imagine that ergonomic issues are going to be in effect with this. Unless some can be mapped to the controller.

 

More info on that would be appreciated.

 

 

[Josh Paxton]

I found a friend who owns a back line company, and hence suffers from perpetual GAS, who agreed to let me bring the HX3 over to his warehouse and use his Windows PC to set it up. So, trigger pulled. I'm betting it gets here the day after my next organ trio gig...