Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Craig MacDonald]

Wes,

 

The expression pedal is assignable to only one voice.. we asked Roland for this right from day one, and they delivered that functionality in release 1.01 (the first update)..

 

Does your VR-09 have all the updates?

 

With respect to percussion retriggering, I haven't noticed that problem, are you sure that this isn't just a technique problem? If a little more care is taken to release the key before pressing another you probably won't have that problem... I would try this myself but right now my VR-09 is in it's gig bag.

[brenner13]

I bet this has been asked before (sorry): can anyone recommend a control pedal for the VR09 (for organ volume primarily). Would an FC7 work (without having to tweak it)?

You have to get the Ashby adapter for the FC7 to work with the VR09, but I've not heard specifically how well it works. I've tried both Roland's EV5 and M-Audio's EX-P and both of those have such a small area of the throw that actually changes the parameters that I can only use them as On/Off toggles. You can dial the minimum setting so that it is slightly below max to provide a little boost for solos with the pedal wide open, but I could not get a smooth swell action from either of those pedals. I've heard a few folks opine that the EV5 works fine for them, but I've opted to use another sustain pedal to control the rotary speed with the expression jack.

 

I did dig out an old Morely expression pedal from the late 1980's that was designed as a Roland EV5 clone that has a much longer throw. It does enable workable swells with the VR09 which I find odd because the Morely never seemed to work very well with any other board that I recall. Morley unfortunately discontinued this EV-5 model in the early 1990's so I know that's not much help.

 

That Moog expression pedal looks intriguing for only forty bucks, but again I do not recall anyone offering specific reviews of performance with the VR09. So I'll reiterate your question to anyone with experience of successful swell action on the VR09. Anyone?

[Phil UK]

Does the EV7 work?

[To B3]

On Aug 6, Roland added the Japanese description of firmware 1.03 to the Englih page, and then quickly removed it. Hopefully this means the update is right around the corner!

 

According to Google translate, the Japanese text said,

I was 10 tone added to the [E.PIANO].

I was 15 tone added to the "synthesizer section".

※ For more information, please refer to the "VR-09 data list".

 

FWIW, the feature I'm DYING FOR is expression pedal assignable to only one voice.

 

Oh! Something to mention about the VR-09 I discovered last night while playing "Child In Time" and dialing in my organ and Leslie sound against my L111/760 rig. The percussion implementation behaves differently than the percussion implementation in the AO-42 amplifier and I suspect the AO-28. It's very "binary". If you don't let go of the keys long enough, the percussion doesn't re-trigger at all, whereas on an organ that has the capacitor charge/discharge circuit for percussion triggering, it will partially trigger. The work-around is to pull out a bit of either the 2nd or 3rd harmonic drawbar, depending which percussion tone you are using.

 

Hope the epianos means more rhodes wurlies and clavs, not fm. And some pedal wah and more customizable per patch effect assinig would be great.

[WesG]

PhilUK - https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/topic/175532/Problems_using_EV_5_expression .. seems to say the EV7 is okay to use but the EV5 is a waste of money.

 

Craig - I'm on 1.01, I didn't notice any new menu options in the expression pedal setting...I guess I will have to look again!! Thanks!

 

Last night was the first time in a LONG LONG time I sat down for a deep look at that board, I also discovered a couple of organ settings (high and low emphasis of some sort) that I didn't know about that were worth tweaking. I also got my VR-09 Leslie to react much more like my 760, although it would be nice if the VR-09 had a deceleration rate setting.

 

As for the percussion. The trigger is definitely different than the AO-42. I don't have an AO-28 organ to test against, but I expect it is similar. The old school percussion can be made to partially trigger, this happens when no notes are pushed (so the trigger busbar is not grounded) but the gate has not fully "recharged"...i.e. on an AO-28 this would be right in the middle of terminal K swinging from 0 back to 30V. It's not a vertical slope. If you depress a key while the voltage is swinging back up on my AO-42, the gate will re-trigger but not at "full force". This can let you have "rounder" notes that are not completely devoid of the percussion harmonic by altering just how much space you put between the notes.

 

Try playing 16th note scales at quarter=140 on an organ and then the VR09. Unless your staccato is very very clean, you will hear both devices respond differently. The VR-09 can only do a full magnitude pulse.

 

BTW, for anybody who does not play Hammond, the above is nitpicking in the extreme. I would not be surprised if many or most other clones did not behave exactly the same way.

 

I also learned something else last night. The overdrive is a little more usable than I thought: it varies with expression pedal position, just like a Hammond/Leslie combination might. So you can adjust it so that 95% of your breakup happens with the pedal to the metal, which is how an organist would use it. I differentiate here between organists and people who play keyboards with organ tones not to be snobby, but because we often approach tone production differently.

 

In a similar vein, there is a bug in the distortion implementation. The amount of distortion varies with Leslie output volume, not Leslie input volume as it should. This means that when the bottom rotor points at you, you get more distortion than when it is pointing away from you. That is not how a Leslie works!

 

Wes

[Craig MacDonald]

Wes,

 

Go to the menu and select controller, then move to "expression part" and you will see 3 options.. all, upper, lower.. this is where you turn expression on/off for the 2 parts.

 

Hope this helps..

 

Re the percussion retriggering.. that's a pretty subtle thing that you're describing and I am not sure I would expect any clone to handle this any differently than the VR-09 does.

[Phil UK]

Re the EV7 - cheers Wes!

[iluvchiclets]

Regarding the new update - I got an email from Roland announcing it for today.

I'm going to assume that all the VR owners have discovered the update by now.?

I wish I could post the link for this message, but I don't have a computer right now as I am trying to recover from a flood in my basement! I'm reading this forum right now on my phone, and this small

text and writing is making my eyes cross! Please let us all know if you are able to find out more about this update, and all the details...

[iluvchiclets]

Does this work?

 

http://us5.campaign-archive2.com/?u=7008d25c1e&id=ebf246c68f&e=9793abfce9

[Craig MacDonald]

It works.. but the update isn't posted and available yet.

[Six-string-man]

I bet this has been asked before (sorry): can anyone recommend a control pedal for the VR09 (for organ volume primarily). Would an FC7 work (without having to tweak it)?

You have to get the Ashby adapter for the FC7 to work with the VR09, but I've not heard specifically how well it works.

 

 

I have never played a VR09, but I have a Roland C-200, and can report that the FC-7 in conjunction with the Ashby adapter works wonderfully well on it. i can recommend them both 100%.

 

 

SSM

[WesG]

SSM, how is the FC-7 in comparison to an organ? I mean "feel" here more than anything. Feel is really important on those, non-organists think they are like volume knobs, but in fact, I have my foot on the pedal making slight adjustments for attack and phrasing all night long.

 

I have been tempted to try and find a pre-LDR L100 expression pedal and swapping out the pot to make a DIY Roland expression pedal. They want an awful lot of money for EV7.

[jmemcse517]

Just got the new update -

1.02 download

[BluesKeys]

I use the Ashby adapter with the Yamaha FC-7 and it works like a champ. I also rewired a FC-7 to work with Roland and it does fine too.

[Craig MacDonald]

Just got the new update -

1.02 download

That's not the new update, that is the update from December 2013.

[To B3]

Looking forward to take a listen to that sounds! Hoping for a new rhodes. Happy to see that the vr09 is alive, and not "it is what it is" like i thought before! New clavs and new effects too, please!

[Six-string-man]

SSM, how is the FC-7 in comparison to an organ? I mean "feel" here more than anything. Feel is really important on those, non-organists think they are like volume knobs, but in fact, I have my foot on the pedal making slight adjustments for attack

 

They want an awful lot of money for EV7.

 

 

Wes, it feels good to me, but I'm no expert I'm afraid. SSM = Six-string-man = (gasp!) guitarist. I do keep my right foot on the pedal all the time, but my adjustments are mainly for volume rather than attack, although I am improving in that direction.

 

I don't know what pedals you have experience of, so the following may or may not help.

 

Along with the FC-7 I also have a Mojo long throw pedal and a Hammond EXP 50.

 

The FC-7 I took to immediately, the Mojo and Hammond took a bit more getting used to, as the Mojo has a thick platform under the actual moving part that your foot goes on, (treadle?) and the Hammond makes you have your heel sit further back, as the design is different, the treadle is mounted so that the rear of it is very close to the ground.

 

They are all good in their own way, just different from each other. The FC-7 felt more natural to me when I started, but I like all three now.

 

I have never played a "proper" organ, but I have done a load of research into expression pedals, and a couple of people have told me that none of the after-market floor pedals out there are anything like the expression pedal action on a real B3 pedal board. I hope all this rambling gave you some answers!

 

I still think that if you want an expression pedal for a Roland, the FC-7 and Ashby adaptor are the way to go. After all, if you're in the USA, you're talking chump change, you will only pay around $65 or $70 total.

 

BTW, I totally agree about the price of the EV7, it put me off too.

 

 

SSM

[Craig MacDonald]

SSM,

 

My Mojo expression pedal works on my Kronos and my VR-09, so that's what I use.. it's wide and long throw.. it's great.. that feels like a real B3 pedal, although I think that the behaviour of the expression is as much a matter of the expression/volume curve of the instrument, as it is the pedal. I have several Roland pedals and they are all crappy (my humble opinon).. I tend to think the FC7 with the cable mod is the way to go on th VR-09.

[iluvchiclets]

Here's the apology about the delay in the update:

 

http://us5.campaign-archive2.com/?u=7008d25c1e&id=f4b6c25896&e=9793abfce9

[Craig MacDonald]

I think that it's great news that they are still working on this product.. hopefully it's not just new sounds, but some new/updated functionality.. looking forward to the update when it comes out.

[jmemcse517]

Just got the new update -

1.02 download

That's not the new update, that is the update from December 2013.

 

 

Oops. Between getting ready to move my family 1500 miles back to Michigan in less than 2 weeks, buying a house without actually ever seeing it, and getting ready to start with a new band on September 5th, my brain is a bit scattered.

[WesG]

Thanks, all, for the pedal feedback. I will definitely need something better than my M-Audio unit if I ever decide to gig this thing.

 

This is the first time I've had the chance to just screw around with a keyboard (i.e. no goal in mind) in over a year...I now have a total of about 12-15 hours of playing on the VR-09. I have to say, the keybed has really grown on me. I no longer find it annoying and actually rather like it.

 

Hey, I found another ultra nit-picky bug in the organ emulation. The keyclick does not seem to change with the drawbar settings. It's essentially a constant "spit". I have to wonder what it is with clonewheel makers and keyclick. I always think there is way too much keyclick out of the box.

 

I hooked it up to my iPad with my Roland WNA-1100 this afternoon. The docs don't mention it, but you can create an Adhoc network to connect the iPad to the VR-09 without relying on a WPS router. The Adhoc network password will be listed on the VR-09s screen in the Wireless section after you enable adhoc. Now, as for what to do in the synth editing panel....100% of my synth experience is FM. Guess I need to learn some new tricks.

 

Some of the sounds in this thing are really great, very inspiring. I'm a Yamaha ROMpler guy, this thing has a very different sound than Yamaha gear. The transistor organ is pretty awesome, too. I liked it so much I learned "Light My Fire" this morning. It's almost gig-ready. Too bad I'm not in a band where that would be appropritate...my main act focusses on danceable tunes, I can't see anybody dancing to that solo.

 

Oh, hey, Craig. Thanks for the tip on the expression pedal. I created a piano/strings patch where the strings are on the pedal. I can't get the strings 100% OFF though. Piano level is 8, synth level is 12. Grand Piano V and Juno Strings IIRC. Wierd. Not being able to completely kill the strings is kind of a buzz-kill. I want to use it for "Desperado". I suppose I can ues two different registrations, but that means no knob fiddling.

 

Wes

[partyarty]

Just a quick question, I am a prospective vr-09 owner looking for a gigging keyboard that has decent organs AND pianos (and other sounds).. I saw some of the conversation about transposing globally and that you can transpose in a registration and the change in key is maintained when changing voices.. The question I have is sometimes in a gig I switch from piano to horns back to piano in a transposed key.. and what I would like to know is if I pick a certain brass sound, go back to piano, play the piano, hit back to the brass, will the sound I chose for brass still be there or will it revert back to the first sound in the menu? Or do I need to setup registrations for each sound and bounce back and forth that way? Thanks!

[AnotherScott]

I learned "Light My Fire" this morning. It's almost gig-ready. Too bad I'm not in a band where that would be appropritate...my main act focusses on danceable tunes, I can't see anybody dancing to that solo.

You need to get gigs in Colorado.

[Craig MacDonald]

Partyarty..

 

If you want to switch between sounds and transpositions simultaneously, I really think the easiest way to do this is to by using two registrations to save the sounds and the transpositions. HOWEVER, the VR-09 lay out is such that the mode buttons (organ piano synth) are close and beside the transposition buttons, you can also do this with two button presses live pretty easily (assuming that your voices are already selected under the proper modes).

 

The VR-09 is pretty versatile in this regard AND if I'm not mistaken (not at my VR-09 right now) there is also a transpose light that tells you if the tranpose is active or not, which helps if you're doing a lot of transposes during a performance..

[partyarty]

Thanks Craig, I read through all the posts from the beginning, and as you might imagine, it is a roller coaster ride on the ups and downs of the instrument that at one point had me sold, at another had me full of doubts, but what sealed it was looking at the alternatives at this price point.. I even looked at the Privia for a minute.. And from a gig perspective and the fact that it was the drawbars and organ control that drew me in the first place, there is no contest. There are just no local guitar centers or sam ash in the area that stock the instrument, so that was my only hesitation.. I should have it by the end of the week and will have my own impressions.. Looking forward to it! The only thing about transpose that I would prefer is simply like Korg and Yamaha do, +1 -1, -3, etc.. not to B or C# or whatever the C is transposing to.. I had a juno for 5 minutes, and it had quite a few things I found not so easy in getting to sounds I wanted. I probably didn't give it a chance, but this one I am going to work out and tweak until I am happy with it.

[WesG]

I'm a Yamaha guy from way back, and I find it easier to transpose with the VR-09. If you want to play a chart for Bb Trumpet, you hold Transpose and press Bb. If you want to play a chart for Eb Alto Sax, you hold Transpose and press Eb. What could be simpler? I sure don't know how many semitones there are in a major sixth!

 

Wes

[Craig MacDonald]

Partyarty,

 

Good luck, I hope you find the VR-09 to be a good fit for your needs.. Don't forget to ask questions if you have any.. I hate to hear the feedback from someone who returned it without tweaking it, or assuming that it can't do something.. Like most keyboards these days, there are a number of ways to do different things and the transpose function is a perfect example of that..

 

Craig

[brenner13]

I'm a Yamaha guy from way back, and I find it easier to transpose with the VR-09. If you want to play a chart for Bb Trumpet, you hold Transpose and press Bb. If you want to play a chart for Eb Alto Sax, you hold Transpose and press Eb. What could be simpler? I sure don't know how many semitones there are in a major sixth!

 

Wes

 

My VR09 does not transpose this way...did you mean this is how Yamaha does it? Split points are set that way on the 09, which is super speedy. But you have to hold the transpose button and click up or down by semi-tomes to change keys on my VR.

 

However to clarify Partyarty's question: my band plays a Foreigner tune and of course none of us can sing that high, so we transpose down a full step. But I learned the dang tune in Ab and happily found out while in a Registration that is transposed, you can hit any of the preset buttons and dial around to select different tones and remain transposed.

[WesG]

Well that's wierd. Maybe it's my PF-85 that transposes like that?

 

So, to correct my post -- with the VR-09, if you are playing a Bb horn part, you hit the transpose button and turn the wheel until says "Bb". Still really straightforward.

 

Wes