Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Kalin]

Hello! Seriously considering getting VR-09. A couple of questions here:

 

1. How you guys are browsing through the registration banks - there's a "Next" knob, but no "Back"? Maybe "Bank" plus the data wheel, which i not the most convenient...?

 

2. Is there some user slots (and if yes - how many are they), or registrations are considered as ones? Where are the new packs as Axial's to be placed?

 

3. Is the VR-09's keybed exactly the same as Fa-06's? Tried the latter couple of times - definitely not the best, but usable after some hours of playing. Local stores in my area don't have Vr09 in the moment.

 

4. What do you think of the sound set - yes, it is quite limited compared the Fa-06, but having browsed the Fa's presets I find many of them sound similar (especially the supernatural synth ones). I am focused mainly on the synth lead tones, I have Nord Electro 3 and not having a dedicated monophonic mode is a minus to me. But Electros are clearly not intended to to be all-rounders. I liked a lot these two lead sounds from the upcoming Vr09 OS upgrade.

 

Thank you!

[xKnuckles]

Hi Kalin. The vr-09s registration banks are not one of its best features IMHO. Groups of four were a poor idea. I mostly use it for organ sounds so simply have four different organ settings in the first four banks. It is obviously easy to get back and forth between them (one button). I have a couple of others which I also use, and I call them up by punching in the numbers. I have not used the wheel at all for this.

 

Yes there are user slots - indeed every slot (and there are 100) can be a user slot. It is easy enough to save the factory registrations to USB. As it is, the factory ones do not occupy all of the slots, and they are present in more than one location, so I have been happy to overwrite some of them. If you get the Axial ones you will need to save your current ones to registration first (they can be saved as a complete set) and then load in the axial ones, as they will overwrite everything.

 

If you wanted more than 100 slots, you could have separate sets on a USB stick.

 

I have never played a Fa-06

 

I mostly just use the organs (which I am very pleased with) as I get all my other sounds from a Casio PX-5s.

[brenner13]

Hello! Seriously considering getting VR-09. A couple of questions here:

 

1. How you guys are browsing through the registration banks - there's a "Next" knob, but no "Back"? Maybe "Bank" plus the data wheel, which i not the most convenient...?

 

2. Is there some user slots (and if yes - how many are they), or registrations are considered as ones? Where are the new packs as Axial's to be placed?

 

3. Is the VR-09's keybed exactly the same as Fa-06's? Tried the latter couple of times - definitely not the best, but usable after some hours of playing. Local stores in my area don't have Vr09 in the moment.

 

4. What do you think of the sound set - yes, it is quite limited compared the Fa-06, but having browsed the Fa's presets I find many of them sound similar (especially the supernatural synth ones). I am focused mainly on the synth lead tones, I have Nord Electro 3 and not having a dedicated monophonic mode is a minus to me. But Electros are clearly not intended to to be all-rounders. I liked a lot these two lead sounds from the upcoming Vr09 OS upgrade.

 

Thank you!

Hello, this is great board for the bucks IMO. There is no doubt about it being a quirky beastie, though. I currently play in a classic rock cover band doing 60's, 70's, and 80's radio hits. Yeah, it gets tedious but it is the only type of music that even begins to reimburse some small fraction of the cost of all this freakin' gear...around these parts anyway. I digress...the VR09 is nearly perfect for my needs in this setting; so easy to bring up a couple of presets, press a few buttons, twist a few knobs, slide a couple of faders, and POOF! You've just nailed that signature sound for the intro on INXS's Don't Change. Talk about instant gratification. My band mates think that I'm a genius, but this board is just so easy to work on the fly. I digress some more.

 

1) I just spin the dial to the desired registration. The NEXT button is only used when I'm leisurely browsing through registrations.

 

2) 100 registrations; 25 banks of 4 slots. *quirk alert: only 4 bank buttons and 4 register buttons to access 'em. Spinning the dial is way easier. Any deep editing of the synth will override a preset's sound that is used in any other registration. *quirk alert: saving your registrations to a thumb drive is highly recommended, but realize that any deep synthesis modifications will override any previous deep synthesis changes made on that same thumb drive. I've lost several great sounds of my own before finding this out. So one will want to have several different small capacity USB's to keep the Axial sounds separate from your own tweaks. Also keep a log of which presets have been modified so not to accidentally overwrite one's previous work like I have several times...ERG!

*Sub-quirk alert: the surface panel provides access to the main Attack Decay Release envelope and filter frequency/resonance as well as the effects, but the iPad editor is required to modify LFO's or change the programmable presets' waveforms. There are over 300 wave forms but only about 100 presets that are open for programming (for example, you cannot modify the piano presets' waveforms) and only 100 registrations slots per thumb drive to save 'em to.

Perhaps it may help to think of Registrations as snap shots of the status of the whole board, registering all of your adjusted settings and manipulations of the presets. After you have saved your registration, you can hit the preset button and dial up the sound that you have modified and it will still be the factory settings and sound with no way to tell that this preset has been modified and is saved to a registration. One tiny parameter change and saving it to a registration will wipeout the hours spent dialing in that perfect bagpipe patch and it'll be gone forever.

 

3) I've not laid hands on an FA yet so cannot comment with comparison. I absolutely loathed the VR09's keybed the first day it arrived at my door and nearly returned it the next day. Perseverance paid off though. It is still uncomfortable for me to play piano on it over a year later, but it's fantastic for organ and synth...very fast and light action.

 

4) I love the sound of the thing however I needed a better Hammond emulation for my rig and this fit the bill with near perfection. The synth capabilities are just bonus for me and as you say, quite limited. The presets are very good but one needs an iPad (and a camera connection kit) to access any real synthesis programming...and then wrap one's head around the convoluted registration saving requirements listed above.

 

I really like my VR09 and it has more than paid for itself with the very capable sound set I've managed with it. I still catch myself grinning with amazement how all these fantastic sounds have come from this little 12 lb board as I carry it off stage under one arm. I hope you get to play one soon. If you decide to buy new, there should be a 30-day return policy if you don't like it. If you decide to buy used perhaps you can get a good deal and also recover most funds by reselling if it doesn't do it for you. Best of luck on your endeavor.

 

 

 

[xKnuckles]

Many thanks Brenner!! I am going to keep a copy of what you just wrote as I was not aware of a lot of those "quirks"!

[Kalin]

Brenner and xKnuckles- thank you for your prompt answers! Brenner, I will consider your notes, very helpful and informative! Having Nord Electro 3 at my disposal, organ sounds are not my main interest here, so I'll take some time deciding...though Vr'09's interface is really attractive!

[brenner13]

I agree the VR09 UI is great for quick access at a live gig. These might be old news however if synth leads are your primary goal, have you considered Roland's Gaia or Novation's Ultra Nova? Only 37 keys on these examples but they offer way more surface control. Roland's new Aria System 1 sounds amazing and has gobs of knobs and sliders, but with only 25 keys it is just too confining to the way I like to play. Oh, so many choices...ain't it great?

 

Back to topic: I find that filter and resonance are the first thing I reach for to tweak a sound in a live situation. Envelope is next. I think Roland made good choices on the surface controls on the VR09. I love taking solos on that thing with my bar-band gigs. The audiences seem to appreciate that I'm the one actually making those sounds come alive with this board.

[AnotherScott]

Hi Kalin. The vr-09s registration banks are not one of its best features IMHO. Groups of four were a poor idea. I mostly use it for organ sounds so simply have four different organ settings in the first four banks. It is obviously easy to get back and forth between them (one button). I have a couple of others which I also use, and I call them up by punching in the numbers. I have not used the wheel at all for this.

When you say you call them up by punching in the numbers... you mean the Bank and Registration buttons? That allows you to "punch in" numbers for the first 16 registrations. But there isn't any way to get to registrations 17 through 100 without the wheel, is there? (Well, I guess, not counting hitting the Next button over and over again.)

 

Brenner13 (or anyone else), please let me know if I understand correctly: There are I believe 125 iPad-editable sounds in the VR-09... You can save up to 100 personalized registrations that can include various combinations and/or edits of these sounds... but if you edit one of the 125 sounds and save it as, say Registration #1, you can't edit that same sound in a different way and save it in Registration #2 because the version of the sound that you save to Registration #2 will then also become the version of the sound that will be used in Registration #1, correct? So each of those 125 sounds is available in a maximum of two versions... the original sound (always recallable by invoking that factory preset directly), and one user variation that may be used for as many Registrations as you want that sound to be used in (and that version will be the only one that can be used in registrations).

 

That being the case, I can understand the importance of your warning... "keep a log of which presets have been modified so not to accidentally overwrite one's previous work"! It would be nice if the VR-09 somehow included that info in its display (or within the iPad app)... some indication when you call up a preset, that a customized version of that sound has been stored in a registration, so you know you can't necessarily edit it without additional ramifications.

 

And this only affects the iPad edited sounds, right? The front panel edits can be saved in registrations in as many variations as you want?

[Kalin]

Brenner13,

 

thanks for suggesting me UN and Gaia. Well, i'm in that quest for quite a long time, so for a moment UN was part of the plan, but I heard of a pitch wheel delay problem which makes synth lead role a bit inconvenient. It's a slight delay, but several user had confirmed it. As for Gaia - yes, I said that leads are priority to me, but having all the rest in Vr09 is cool at least for rehearsing. I also have Yamaha An1x which gives incredible leads but it's a too old machine and starting to have some problems.

 

Honestly speaking, I'm not much of a programmer, I like tweaking, but building from scratching is not not my cup of tea. That is why factory set is important at least as a base for me. And from performer's point of view Vr-09 is set really good with this instant recall. I can only see Korg Kross being so comfortably laid out in that respect. Again with building quality and keybed being a compromise. Blofeld with it's last OS update is also a choice. Some users claim that all the bugs have been removed (of course, I realize Kross and Blofeld are quite different machines as far as a beginner workstation and a VA can be compared). Still thinking of VR-09.

[WesG]

You can add weight to the VR-09 by sticking batteries in it. It's surprising how much more substantial it feels when you do that.

[brenner13]

Brenner13 (or anyone else), please let me know if I understand correctly: There are I believe 125 iPad-editable sounds in the VR-09... You can save up to 100 personalized registrations that can include various combinations and/or edits of these sounds... but if you edit one of the 125 sounds and save it as, say Registration #1, you can't edit that same sound in a different way and save it in Registration #2 because the version of the sound that you save to Registration #2 will then also become the version of the sound that will be used in Registration #1, correct? So each of those 125 sounds is available in a maximum of two versions... the original sound (always recallable by invoking that factory preset directly), and one user variation that may be used for as many Registrations as you want that sound to be used in (and that version will be the only one that can be used in registrations).

 

That being the case, I can understand the importance of your warning... "keep a log of which presets have been modified so not to accidentally overwrite one's previous work"! It would be nice if the VR-09 somehow included that info in its display (or within the iPad app)... some indication when you call up a preset, that a customized version of that sound has been stored in a registration, so you know you can't necessarily edit it without additional ramifications.

 

And this only affects the iPad edited sounds, right? The front panel edits can be saved in registrations in as many variations as you want?

I believe you've accurately described with more eloquence, the experience I've had with saving my own programs. It is rather cumbersome, but multiple thumb drives seems to be the work-around.

Wouldn't it be neat if the iPad app could record a snapshot of the synth settings into a drop-down library and then send those settings to a preset/registration of choice in the VR09?

[xKnuckles]

Hi Kalin. The vr-09s registration banks are not one of its best features IMHO. Groups of four were a poor idea. I mostly use it for organ sounds so simply have four different organ settings in the first four banks. It is obviously easy to get back and forth between them (one button). I have a couple of others which I also use, and I call them up by punching in the numbers. I have not used the wheel at all for this.

When you say you call them up by punching in the numbers... you mean the Bank and Registration buttons? That allows you to "punch in" numbers for the first 16 registrations. But there isn't any way to get to registrations 17 through 100 without the wheel, is there? (Well, I guess, not counting hitting the Next button over and over again.)

 

Yes that is exactly what I meant Scott. As I mentioned, I have very few registrations so I have not needed to use the wheel yet. You are right, I would need it if I had more than 16.

[WesG]

Brenner13 - I have specifically asked Roland (via their blog) to use VRSYNxxx.DAT instead of VRSYN001.DAT files when saving registrations. IMNSHO, the xxx should should match the number in the VR09_xxx.UPG registration file. Maybe if more people ask we'll get the feature in 1.04.

 

Wes

[AnotherScott]

I like tweaking, but building from scratching is not not my cup of tea. That is why factory set is important at least as a base for me. And from performer's point of view Vr-09 is set really good with this instant recall. I can only see Korg Kross being so comfortably laid out in that respect. Again with building quality and keybed being a compromise. Blofeld with it's last OS update is also a choice. Some users claim that all the bugs have been removed (of course, I realize Kross and Blofeld are quite different machines as far as a beginner workstation and a VA can be compared). Still thinking of VR-09.

In the category of tweakable polyphonic synth with a diverse set of quick-recall presets, some other low cost possibilities that come to mind are King Korg, Casio XW-P1.

[Kalin]

Thanks for these suggestions, AnotherScott. King Korg is a very good sounding synth, no doubt about it. I'm a bit concirned about its too light keybed though. Yes, for under a grand it is difficult to get all the importnat features done in a decent quality. It seems regarding the keybed only UN, BloKey, Sledge and PC3Le6/7 are the options. As for the factory set as a starting point, I find MOXF6 to be the most suitable to my needs/taste. And it will take some time and effort to get used to the pitch stick after so many years with wheels, though my first synth in the beginning of the 90s was the mighty Roland JX-1 :)But, honestly, I just can't decide which keybed feels worse - MOXF6's or VR-09.

[Kalin]

OS 1.03 already available:

http://www.roland.com/support/article/?q=downloads&p=VR-09

 

[Kalin]

New synths and el.pianos seemed to be great on those youtube demos.

[partyarty]

was having trouble.. helps to have the usb stick seated properly! now updating.. since my board came with 1.02.. this is the first time I am upgrading.. looking forward to it!

[Philip Clark]

Hmmm, well this is disturbing.

 

I ran the update. And the sounds are great. But I'm noticing when I increase the release on the new EP sounds, the pitch scoops up a 1/2 or whole step when I release the key.

 

Glitch already. hm.

[Kalin]

offtopic...just playing around with my old AN1x - this old baby kills them all..no such fat leads on any of the modern VAs..

 

btw this newly found glitch is really strange.never seen Roland doing quick fixes, hopefully they do this now.

[To B3]

I did not have the time to install ou take a closer look yet. So, t those of you who installed it:

 

1) what about the new sounds? What are they? The wurlies have improved? What else, any new clavs?

2) What else has changed?

 

[Philip Clark]

I did not have the time to install ou take a closer look yet. So, t those of you who installed it:

 

1) what about the new sounds? What are they? The wurlies have improved? What else, any new clavs?

 

The new wurlie is a marginal improvement.

 

Mainly a host of new EPs, synth leads, synth pads, and one SFX patch. No new clavs.

 

2) What else has changed?

 

[ Ver.1.03 ] Additional Function

10 sounds were added to [ E.PIANO ] Button. 15 sounds were added to "Synthesizer Section."

[Ken Beaumont]

Just finished updating, sounds definitely came from the FA. I have only looked at the EP sounds so far, the new EP's sound exactly the same as the ones in my FA08. I like it.

[MotiDave]

Hmmm, well this is disturbing.

 

I ran the update. And the sounds are great. But I'm noticing when I increase the release on the new EP sounds, the pitch scoops up a 1/2 or whole step when I release the key.

 

Glitch already. hm.

 

where's the outrage?

[iluvchiclets]

Just did the update on the VR09 at my local music store - they were kind enough to let me bring in my USB stick and sit there for 30 minutes playing other gear!

 

Personally speaking, it's always nice to have a different set of electric pianos to play around with, and the new ones are nice too. The new Wurlitzer is a great improvement to my ears just playing it for about 5 minutes. It's a very "springy" type interpretation of the Wurli sound...if you like Supertramp, you should like this patch. Did not have time to fool around with the tone control or to try and layer it with the older Wurli sound...

 

No new pianos, which I would really like to see, but overall a very nice improvement in the EP department.

[Philip Clark]

Hmmm, well this is disturbing.

 

I ran the update. And the sounds are great. But I'm noticing when I increase the release on the new EP sounds, the pitch scoops up a 1/2 or whole step when I release the key.

 

Glitch already. hm.

 

where's the outrage?

 

I don't follow.

[garnermike]

Question: Has Roland adapted the VR-09 over to systemic transposing yet (i.e., you can be playing in a transposed key and it will maintain that key when you change to a different saved voice)? I see they have a new 1.03 update and was just wondering.....

[MotiDave]

Hmmm, well this is disturbing.

 

I ran the update. And the sounds are great. But I'm noticing when I increase the release on the new EP sounds, the pitch scoops up a 1/2 or whole step when I release the key.

 

Glitch already. hm.

 

where's the outrage?

 

I don't follow.

 

the forum was tied in a knot about criticism of a different item yesterday. There's a protocol to be followed, it was said.

I thought that criticism seemed oddly defensive of one particular manufacturer. this reinforces my instinct.

 

I 100% support this OP reporting what he's learned.

[MotiDave]

Question: Has Roland adapted the VR-09 over to systemic transposing yet (i.e., you can be playing in a transposed key and it will maintain that key when you change to a different saved voice)? I see they have a new 1.03 update and was just wondering.....

 

VR-09 doesn't let you, say, tune down 1/2 step and every program you play is then that 1/2 step shifted from what you programmed it at?

 

2 of my bands play everything down 1/2 step.

[Philip Clark]

Hmmm, well this is disturbing.

 

I ran the update. And the sounds are great. But I'm noticing when I increase the release on the new EP sounds, the pitch scoops up a 1/2 or whole step when I release the key.

 

Glitch already. hm.

 

where's the outrage?

 

I don't follow.

 

the forum was tied in a knot about criticism of a different item yesterday. There's a protocol to be followed, it was said.

I thought that criticism seemed oddly defensive of one particular manufacturer. this reinforces my instinct.

 

I 100% support this OP reporting what he's learned.

 

There are people in this world who live to be outraged by something. Every day they wake up ready to rant about some perceived injustice to their personal way of life.

 

I am not one of those people.

 

Men make machines. Those machines have bugs. I don't see any need to get my knickers in a bunch about it.

 

 

[MotiDave]

and they are all incredibly awesome machines, its ironic. we all bitch about smaller and smaller trivial details in what are incredibly complicanted and amazing machines delivered to market for increasingly lower and lower costs.

 

and then we defend our beloved items from the mildest of these critiques as if fates of nations hang in the balance.

 

i'm not without sin. i humbly request advance forgiveness and absolution for the things I will do next.