Roland V-Combo VR-09

[DulceLabs.com]

^^^ Great run down. I am not in the market for any of those boards and I'm not an organ guy at all - but I do enjoy reading about gear. That was a nice, objective quicky review of all three boards. You should do more head-to-head shoot outs like this with different DPs and synths and report back.

[daveyb]

It's like there are no accidents where quality is involved!

 

Just another example of how Hammond, back when the Tonewheels were built, got everything right for jazz and rock playing...so be it mostly accidentally!

[daveyb]

HA!! it was *exhausting*. I was under pressure by my own brain the make the right decision. It gets embarrassing to keep returning boards after a number of days to the same salesman

^^^ Great run down. I am not in the market for any of those boards and I'm not an organ guy at all - but I do enjoy reading about gear. That was a nice, objective quicky review of all three boards. You should do more head-to-head shoot outs like this with different DPs and synths and report back.

[stoken6]

Interesting that you preferred the NS2 organ/EPs to the (newer) NE4D. I have an NS2, and I'm "satisfied" with its clonewheel, but I'm not an organ stickler. (I'm fussy about my APs, as it goes).

 

And the VR09 held its own quite well against such illustrious company. I liked it when I tried one a few months ago.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[daveyb]

Yeah, I was very surprised as well. Greg (Sweetwater salesman) explained that in Europe the musical market is a lot more pop/bright sound oriented. The emphasis is on bright and glossy sound. So the Nord stuff is voiced primarily for that market. Seems to have become a new standard in the States to some musicians.

Interesting that you preferred the NS2 organ/EPs to the (newer) NE4D. I have an NS2, and I'm "satisfied" with its clonewheel, but I'm not an organ stickler. (I'm fussy about my APs, as it goes).

 

And the VR09 held its own quite well against such illustrious company. I liked it when I tried one a few months ago.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[JedTull]

I have owned my VR-09 for about a year and absolutely love it. I also have a Hammond SK-1. They are the perfect pair. I spent the better part of the morning reading the posts on this board. Good stuff. A few months ago there was some talk about creating a site to share registrations. I play in a classic rock band and have to work hard to come up with the right sounds to properly emulate some of the songs we play. I am an ex-guitarist/drummer who took up keyboards a few years ago. A place to search or share registrations would be really valuable to an old fart like me. An example is the perfect sound for The Zombies - Time of The Season. The web shows me 8800000 on my Hammond, but is still doesn't have that perfect Rod Argent sound. Any suggestions?

[zxcvbnm098]

I'd sure love to see Roland introduce a "Pro" version of the VR-09 with waterfall keys, internal power supply, etc. Seems like a no brainer. Which means it will never happen.

 

Needless to say, you are fortunate to live close to Sweetwater. I'd be hard pressed to think of anyone anywhere who could compare these three in a similar manner. GC Sunset is the closest to me (90 minutes away) that might have all in stock, but that's it in the greater LA area I think. Maybe SA in NYC? Given the current state of retail, almost impossible to get a true comparison like this.....

[iluvchiclets]

An example is the perfect sound for The Zombies - Time of The Season. The web shows me 8800000 on my Hammond, but is still doesn't have that perfect Rod Argent sound. Any suggestions?

There are a lot of Hammond enthusiasts on this forum, so I hope I'm not wrong in my suggestions for this song.

 

I would use the first two drawbars as you mentioned, but only have them partway out to a value of, say, 3. The reason for this is that Rod Argent used the percussion at such a high level that I think he had his drawbars pushed in.

 

I would use:

- percussion Volume "Normal",

- Harmonic type set to "3rd",

- and I think the decay is "Fast", but you can try both fast and slow and see what you think.

 

The real trick to that song is to use very low-level drawbars so that the percussion stands out. I don't think he is using C/V either, so disable that.

[DenCV]

I came up with the same conclusion Daveyb good to know I ain't crazy, or if I am I ain't alone. My recent history of clones is analog cx3 to digital cx3, to needing something for small restaurant gigs to replace my CX-3 through leslie and wurly 200 rig. I was still planning on using the big rig when it fit. I read reviews and was between the 4d and the SK1 but wanted a seperate organ out. I went to the store, vent in hand and tried the SK1 out, and left after playing it for 5 minutes. I was using that and lugging the CX3 along for a spare. I never could go back to the CX3 after the SK1's organ. Then I watched a VR09 slowly go down in price on craigslist and told myself if it came in under 500 it was mine. It did, and I got it solely for a spare. It does some things extremely well, and had to perform spare duties twice which it did well. I sold the SK1 to get an SK2 (missed the double manuals). Recently I got another SK1 because I missed the 15 pounds so now I have both SK's, and still have the VR. To my ears the vent is necessary for the VR09, not so much for the SK's, although it rarely is left at home with them either. I'm also in the minority and think the extra voices (EP's and clavs especially)on the SK beat the nord and VR easily. In the VR09's case that's after ABing the SK, the VR, and the real things (D6, Wurly, and rhodes in the studio). And yea, you'll get to learn the SK pretty quickly, it becomes "home" pretty fast.

 

[JedTull]

Thank you for the input and suggestions. I will try them. Very much appreciated.

[tommym]

The VR-09 seems only to receive (its main part) on Midi Channel 4. Can anyone else help us with this - is this a fact? Thanks in advance.

[tommym]

I'm in a similar situation, Den - got an SK-1 pretty early on, because it sounded best on youtube videos, and I'd rarely had peak experiences on any Nords I'd run into; So I really liked the SK-1, as did my clients. Got a Korg Kross because I needed a more comprehensive light-weight synth, but also because although I liked the SK-1's other voices, especially piano and clav, I wasn't sold on the electric pianos. Then recently saw a VR-09 really cheap (or so i thought, haha) and got it 'for a friend' - who ended up wanting to pick up his own new in a store to get the warranty,etc. After trying to sell my VR-09 (who needed it? I had an SK, right?) - I realized the price I paid was not as great a deal as I'd thought - I couldn't sell it for that price. And then I got into programming the VR-09's Registrations. It's REALLY FUN! But as with you, every time I go back to A-B it with the SK-1, the SK-1 comes out on top. I've now come to the conclusion that they are both tools, each with its own sound, each valid in its own usage. I'd hate to sell either one of them (or the Kross.) Hopefully, business will stay good and I won't have to. This way the hardest decision is which one works best on each individual gig. And I'm not breaking my back or bank account. I do have some questions about the VR-09 - will it ever be able to edit delay return levels for example. Hoping for a 1.04 update so that the organ and other part can be separately routed through the Rotary and not through the Rotary respectively. The usual stuff. But I think it rocks as a synth!

[tommym]

I think the trick to Time of the Season, is that the PERCUSSION is louder than the drawbar tones - so much so, that during the solo, it sounds like he is playing in a weird mode, but it's really what Hammond and Roland call "the 3rd harmonic" (an octave and a fifth above the root) that is giving us the sense of the pitches of his notes - in other words, if Argent is playing a C3, for example, we hear it as a G4, because the percussion feature is louder, and it's functioning almost like a guitar harmonic. Try Percussion = 3rd Harmonic, turn "Soft" OFF (maybe that's called NORMAL), and experiment with the Fast/Slow control. (Not the Rotary Fast/Slow - I meant the Percussion Decay control.) You might have to make the 880 000 000 drawbar settings more like 660 000 000 or even 600 000 000 or 060 000 000 or 006 000 000 - try each of these. Actually try just using one drawbar (at level 6 or 8, experiment) at a time - with that Percussion setting i mentioned above - why not try ALL the drawbars, but only one at a time - and see which one sounds the closest to you. And Reverb. Compression too?

As much as I've said about that tune, I confess it still mystifies me. (Maybe that's why I've thought about it so much.)

[tommym]

OOPS, I just saw that I repeated your very good advice, chiclet. So sorry, I didn't see yours first. Well, great minds work alike I guess!

An example is the perfect sound for The Zombies - Time of The Season. The web shows me 8800000 on my Hammond, but is still doesn't have that perfect Rod Argent sound. Any suggestions?

There are a lot of Hammond enthusiasts on this forum, so I hope I'm not wrong in my suggestions for this song.

 

I would use the first two drawbars as you mentioned, but only have them partway out to a value of, say, 3. The reason for this is that Rod Argent used the percussion at such a high level that I think he had his drawbars pushed in.

 

I would use:

- percussion Volume "Normal",

- Harmonic type set to "3rd",

- and I think the decay is "Fast", but you can try both fast and slow and see what you think.

 

The real trick to that song is to use very low-level drawbars so that the percussion stands out. I don't think he is using C/V either, so disable that.

[JedTull]

I thank both of you for your valued input. I have been messing with the drawbar settings and the Percussion controls. The drawbars seem to sound the best around 660 000 000 (or there about). During the end of the solo I turn the leslie on and it really makes it pop. I think I'm close now. My band mates are impressed. Thanks so much for the help. BTW, the update for the VR09 has some nice new EPiano sounds. My biggest complaint about the VR09 is the size of the keys. They are not quite full size, which causes me a bit of a problem when I switch from the SK-1 to the VR09....fat fingers!

[Legatoboy]

Help VR-09 users,

 

I'm a little late to the party here but have a VR-09 on order and have been reading through this enormous thread.

 

I noticed this issue brought up once in the middle of the thread and now cannot find it nor the answer I found either in the thread. I would love if someone could verify this one way or another for me!

 

Can you assign the Left or Right outs for lets say just Organ on Left out and Synth or Piano on Right out (with hard pans or however). . .with that ability (like a Nord Electro II) I could route the Left out to my Motion Sound or Vent and the Right to my regular Amp (both in mono of course)?

 

I saw this questioned in this thread and then answered that 'you can' do that.

 

Is that true and if so where do you make that edit . . .

 

I have gone through the online manual twice and nothing is jumping out at me about this....I can't seem to find it again in the thread either...damn should have emailed to myself!

 

Thanks,

lb

 

[Legatoboy]

.... (double post) ...

 

[richforman]

Thanks DaveyB belatedly for that great roundup. I think I will be in the market eventually, not immediately, for a clonewheel type organ-specializing keyboard (for now I'm okay with my Ferrofish B4000+ module; B3 requirement is only a small fraction of any of the gigs I currently do although that might change later this year.) Anyway can you expand a bit on what you meant about the SK1's controls or architecture having more of a learning curve? Also did someone say, did I understand this right, that the SK1 is only 15 lbs.? And what are the fundamental differences, since they are both marketed under the Hammand name, of the "SK" line vs. the "XK" and "XK-c" lines? Is the latter seen as more pro-level or something, or is it more obselete having been replaced by the SK's? I'm a little cloudy.

[Dr88s]

Anyway can you expand a bit on what you meant about the SK1's controls or architecture having more of a learning curve? Also did someone say, did I understand this right, that the SK1 is only 15 lbs.? And what are the fundamental differences, since they are both marketed under the Hammand name, of the "SK" line vs. the "XK" and "XK-c" lines? Is the latter seen as more pro-level or something, or is it more obselete having been replaced by the SK's? I'm a little cloudy.

 

Rich,

 

I have never owned or even played the SK-1 or KX series, but from what I understand, the KXs are organ-specific boards that ONLY do organl ie, no piano/EP/anything else sounds. The SK1 does organ very well but also has a handful of other bread and butter sounds.

 

If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

 

[DenCV]

Rich, yes, the SK1 (61) is 15 lbs. The XK3c is the forerunner to the SK, layed out more hammond like, but for the most part mainly an organ. THe new XK1C is basically an SK1 without the extra voices (with the extra processing power, it's actually a bit better organ, but minor IMO.). As far as a learning curve goes, not sure what DaveB meant.

[brenner13]

Help VR-09 users,

 

I'm a little late to the party here but have a VR-09 on order and have been reading through this enormous thread.

 

I noticed this issue brought up once in the middle of the thread and now cannot find it nor the answer I found either in the thread. I would love if someone could verify this one way or another for me!

 

Can you assign the Left or Right outs for lets say just Organ on Left out and Synth or Piano on Right out (with hard pans or however). . .with that ability (like a Nord Electro II) I could route the Left out to my Motion Sound or Vent and the Right to my regular Amp (both in mono of course)?

 

I saw this questioned in this thread and then answered that 'you can' do that.

 

Is that true and if so where do you make that edit . . .

 

I have gone through the online manual twice and nothing is jumping out at me about this....I can't seem to find it again in the thread either...damn should have emailed to myself!

 

Thanks,

lb

The only panning edits available are with the iPad editor on the synth sounds. It is certainly at or near the top of most VR09 users' wish list for another OS update, but there is currently no way to hard pan the organ.

[Legatoboy]

[xKnuckles]

Just out of idle curiosity, I what will happen when this thread hits 1,000,000 posts? Will the "views" column be able to cope? Will the entire forum explode?

[Legatoboy]

"Just out of idle curiosity, I what will happen when this thread hits 1,000,000 posts? Will the "views" column be able to cope? Will the entire forum explode?"

 

All the Graphics on everyone's VR-09 will mysteriously change to VR-10's all done by the invisible hands of the Roland fairies who look similar to the Mothra twins! They even have their own carrying case!

 

http://www.internetweekly.org/images/mothra_twins.jpg

[MarcB Nl]

Hi all, sorry for being late at this party. Got mine 2 weeks ago, after separating with my trusty Juno-G (with famous expansion card). Just wanted to drop 2 questions. I did nail the sound for Europe's Final Countdown (to my opinion better than the Cover Band sound). But on saving the layered sounds, the vr-09 switches the order which influences the sound somehow. I think it than uses the Amp and LFO of the first sound. Not funny, but easy to switch them around. 2nd question: AP can also be tuned with ADR and cut of/resonance. But not after layering two. Strange, for synths it's no issue. But when layering 2 AP's, the vr decides on it's own to change settings which than cannot be restored. I feel 2 AP's do get a more meaty sound, but prefer some extea sustain. Any suggestions?

Will share Final Countdown settings soon! Next post I'll tell about how I walked on the vr-09 after trying it for the first time. Yes I did!

 

Marc

[brenner13]

Not sure I fully understand the senario...saving your new layers to a registration then recalling it, parameters revert? I finally have a few free hours today and hope to experiment programming the VR09 some more.

 

I too like a couple of extra notches on the decay for AC pianos. I think one can adjust the decay on the top sound to taste and then use the arrow down button to highlight the lower sound to make fader adjustments on that one then save to a registration. I'll check this out later today as well.

 

Welcome to the forum, BTW.

 

edit: Well, it appears once two ac pianos are layered the faders seem disabled. However, layered strings or pads under pianos allow filter sweeps and envelope changes on the strings/pads, leaving the piano tone alone. I use that quite a bit at gigs.

 

It certainly should be common knowledge how quirky this little beastie is.

[ABECK]

I'm not sure if this had come up within this thread (scanned, but didn't see anything), so my apologies if it's been covered.

 

I am using an FC-7 as an expression pedal by default, the majority of the expression curve is affected in the first half of the pedal travel. In other words, by the time you get to the midpoint on the pedal, you're pretty much maxed out. This makes it roughly opposite what you would experience on a real swell pedal.

I just got around to figuring out how to adjust the angle of a pedal. You can re-position it to what Yamaha refers to as "standing position". Basically the fulcrum is moved forward. It is SOOOOO much better this way. I highly recommend doing this for anyone using the FC7 with this board.

[MarcB Nl]

Thx for replying Brenner13. I meant that in a layer when saving the combination as a registration, the two instruments swap places, which influences the sound a lot. I know, lots of quirkieness goung on.

 

As promised, a short story on my first 'confrontation' eith the vr. Called the music store - and yes the demo was there. Drove to it (I had read all I could and had seen about evert vid and review, even had gone through te manual). Was it up to my Juno G with Ultimate Keys exp card? Well, my first impression was that the sounds were shallow. Effects could nit be editted. And the keys... I was really disappointed, since in theory thus was my new rig for my our setlist. Couldn't get it out of my head (did not understand what had happened) and decided to save money towards an sk1. But gave it weeks later a 2nd try. Well, decided to jump in it, shutting all doors behind me by selling my Juno G beforehand. Got the vr (bought the demo, saving even more). At home threw in os 1.3 (it was still on 1.1) and the Cover Band Collection as well. Since than happy playing, with a few bumps here and there. AP's tend to fade out with a high pitch, ep's very good and organ is unbeatable.

[dtb200]

I agree - I'd have paid 1-200 more for a better keyboard / action

[brenner13]

IMHO the action is great for synth/organ but lousey for piano or e.piano.