Roland V-Combo VR-09

[brenner13]

I've been bar gigging for nearly two years with this board and quirks aside, it is a very robust instrument for as light as it is. I constantly adjust the effects, draw-faders for the organ, and sweep the filter during synth solos.

 

The effects are global and cannot be assigned to a specific layer. When split, the lower voice only gets reverb. I don't use MIDI with my gig rig so not sure how the thing works but I'm sure no chorus would be available on the lower voice.

 

I've experimented just a bit with MIDI when at home and can only access general MIDI voices when sending CC messages to the VR09. However one can press a registration button and play that sound via MIDI. I cannot remember the specifics, but the upper and lower default to midi channels 4&? But can be changed.

[WesG]

You can't have separate effects for each half do a split, the hardware just isn't there. Doesn't matter if the split is done via MIDI second keyboard mode or not.

 

My advice is to get a second board with great pianos.

 

Wes

[Rovito]

I plan on putting this with my Fantom X6 which has really bad organs IMHO. Pianos aren't too bad.

Just trying to figure future options.

If you make an adjustment in the master effects section on the left, can you just hit write and have those settings in the registration? I noticed you need to reset these each time you use them.

[Rovito]

Just watched some Roland UK videos. Very helpful. Answers a lot of questions.

[WesG]

Saving a registration does indeed save effects unit parameters.

[brenner13]

The VR09 complements the Fantom X quite well from what I hear.

 

As WesG noted, all of the effects change to how they were saved with each registration. Once you get them set the way you like, press and hold a registration button until it starts flashing, scroll to the desired registration number, then press the write button. However the effects also will change to default settings tied to each preset, too. This IS rather annoying and sure would be nice if the effects could be locked. I did seem to notice that the reverb knob may retain it's position even with a newly selected registration...or perhaps that was the Jäger shots talking. I normally don't do that during a gig, but a happy patron liked our band...gave us a few rounds.

[brenner13]

I'm not holding my breath, but 'wonder if Roland has another firmware update in the works? I'd love to see some more quirks ironed out. Sure would be cool to have the iPad app be able to store presets and transmit them to the board, too.

[agitato]

Has anyone played any of the sounds that have the behavior modeling feature, like the n flute?

[WesG]

N trumpet model is wrong wrt articulation. N flute is okay, but I prefer the Yamaha Flute in my ROMpler.

 

And wow, I just noticed my iPad knows how to spell ROMpler correctly.

[brenner13]

Flute, Sax, Trumpet, and Ac Bass allow for some very expressive playing. However, I prefer the chiffy flute in my Fantom for Jethro Tull covers but for smooth dreamy flute, VR09 does real fine.

Yamaha's modeling trumpet in the EX5 is even more expressive with aftertouch and breath controller, but tone is pretty dark and really not very realistic; I actually prefer playing VR09's trumpet.

N Sax is the best synth emulation I've tried to date.

N Ac Bass is just too much fun. I've lost several hours goofing around with that sound...love it!

[WesG]

The lip glissandi in N.Trumpet don't make you crazy?? I play in several bands with real trumpets, and none of them play like that as their "default articulation"!

[tgeorges]

Ok - so let me understand this.

 

Supppose I create a setup - a split, for example - and save it to a registration. And suppose that registration put some oddball effect on the upper voice - let's say it was the "Stone EP." Are you saying that whenever I call up the "Stone EP" voice, alone - not as part of a saved registration - that the "Stone EP" preset will now and forever have that oddball effect?

 

And if so, what if I create two registrations with "Stone EP" - one with oddball effect 1, and the other with oddball effect 2. Which registration's oddball effect "wins?"

 

EDIT: By the way - I just got my VR-09 last week but haven't had much time to play with things like this post talks about - yet. I love the sounds, and even the keyboard feel. If only it had a numeric keypad (for keying in things like bank number) or a "previous" button to match the "next" button, then it would be even easier to use live. But overall I'm please with it.

[WesG]

1 - No

2 - Whichever registration you have just loaded

 

 

[brenner13]

The lip glissandi in N.Trumpet don't make you crazy?? I play in several bands with real trumpets, and none of them play like that as their "default articulation"!

 

True that...I try to avoid this artifact.

[brenner13]

Ok - so let me understand this.

 

Supppose I create a setup - a split, for example - and save it to a registration. And suppose that registration put some oddball effect on the upper voice - let's say it was the "Stone EP." Are you saying that whenever I call up the "Stone EP" voice, alone - not as part of a saved registration - that the "Stone EP" preset will now and forever have that oddball effect?

 

And if so, what if I create two registrations with "Stone EP" - one with oddball effect 1, and the other with oddball effect 2. Which registration's oddball effect "wins?"

 

EDIT: By the way - I just got my VR-09 last week but haven't had much time to play with things like this post talks about - yet. I love the sounds, and even the keyboard feel. If only it had a numeric keypad (for keying in things like bank number) or a "previous" button to match the "next" button, then it would be even easier to use live. But overall I'm please with it.

 

If by "odd-ball effect" you mean to change Stone EP's default MFX Phaser to perhaps Slicer, and save it to a registration...then that effect is only saved to that registration. When you bring up the preset under the category buttons, the Stone EP will revert to all of the default factory settings. There is no way to overwrite the sounds or effects of the preset buttons.

 

Think of registrations as saving the whole status of the board with all of your own tweaks and adjustments to the knobs and faders and the currently selected sounds in each category.

 

The VR09 will allow each registration to save a different effect with the same preset...so one COULD have 100 different effect setting registrations all using the same EP preset. However, if you do any "deep" editing with the iPad app and change LFO parameters on presets like SFX1 or Hoover, and save those edits to a registration, ALL of the registrations that use that same SFX1 or Hoover preset will have the newly altered LFO. Also, when an altered preset in a registration is saved to a thumbdrive, the most recent edits will overwrite any previous edits for ALL registrations that use that preset in EVERY library on that thumbdrive. Use a different thumbdrive for each library...SWEETWATER, AXIAL, third party, your own edits, etc. And keep a log of which presets are altered on which USB, because remember, when a category preset button is pressed, the sound reverts to the factory settings with no indication of that sound having been altered and saved to a registration.

 

Ugh! There is no simple way of explaining it without going in circles.

 

Idiosyncrasies and all, the board still sounds great and I have a blast making noise with the thing. Hope you have some fun with it, too. And please feel free to share as you find how to do neat-o things with it.

[agitato]

Sorry if this may have been asked ad nauseam previously. If one is going to play hammond organ parts with/without leslie and/or vibrato/vibrato chorus, only part of the time, the other times with the clav/synth/string/horns/flute sounds, might the vr09 be a better over-all purchase, than the sk1? The major price difference between them notwithstanding.

[Aidan]

Probably, yes. The clavs are better on the Hammond, IMO, but the Roland has it beat on all the other categories you mention.

[tgeorges]

Thanks, brenner13 and WesG - that's how I thought registrations worked ("think of registrations as...") but when I read this line, doubt crept in:

 

However the effects also will change to default settings tied to each preset, too.

 

as I read it too fast and thought it said that the effects "also will change THE default settings..."

 

I see what you mean about effects being "locked" - you'd like to have the same reverb, for example, applied to the output of the VR-09 regardless of which preset is pulled up. Such a thing would be desirable if you wanted a dry sound out of the board all the time. As it is, if you wanted to do such a thing, you'd have to crank the reverb knob down every time you select a new preset.

 

It could be worse: no knob.

[allan_evett]

Probably, yes. The clavs are better on the Hammond, IMO, but the Roland has it beat on all the other categories you mention.

 

The Hammond clavs beat a lot of hardware-based clavs; they're somewhat in a league of their own.

 

Jumping into this thread now, as I'm considering a 2nd tier keyboard upgrade for my church gig. The church provides me with a Kawai MP7 for bottom tier, and a Casio XW-P1 for up top. For synth sounds the XW is solid, not quite so much for the bread and butter ROMpler tones - especially the organs. So I'm thinking of requesting a VR-09, and letting our occasional second keyboardist use the Casio. Who else here has experience using a VR-09 for church work ? We cover everything from hymn adaptations to fairly current rock. I've been doing everything from basses and synth leads to B3 coverage, strings/pads, accordion/harmonica, etc..

[tgeorges]

About needing different thumb drives - how about the same thumb drive, but create folders that organize the different sets - a folder for the sweetwater set, the axial set, etc. Then copy whichever one to load into the top-level, so there's always only one set at that top level. Obviously this wouldn't be good for a live situation - although swapping thumb drives and loading registrations during a live set would seem unlikely (unless you had a different registration set for each set in the setlist)

 

 

[brenner13]

We cover everything from hymn adaptations to fairly current rock. I've been doing everything from basses and synth leads to B3 coverage, strings/pads, accordion/harmonica, etc..

 

IMO, the VR09 excels with superb basses both synth and electric simulation. The N.AC Bass borrows some SuperNatural tech and is a blast to play. Strings are okay, but the Pads are expressive and huge. Excellent accordions are onboard and when I take a harmonica solo on a Creedence Clearwater Revival tune, there's always a few people trying to see which one in the band is playing harp

 

Oh, it ain't too bad of an organ clone either. There are even a couple of nice chapel tones as well as a great big cathedral sound. Recently I've found the two lowest draw bars to be a bit boomy on stage, but when I listen back to the field recordings its barely noticeable. However I think I'll go ahead and menu dive to back off the low gain a notch or two. The point being, the engine is very tweakable to individual tastes.

 

Watch out though, the Roland keybed may be a sizable step down from the waterfall Casio? Like many, I hated the keys the first day I got it, but have come to appreciate how easy it has become to play lightning fast runs and trills. The quick response action for the organ modeler is also a love it or hate it sitch...I rather like it.

 

Good luck with the choice Allan.

[roygBiv]

Hi Alan

 

I've not used them in a Church setting, but I've owned both the Casio XW-P1 and the Roland VR09.

 

I first got the Casio for the Organ capabilities - never thought they were very convincing, and the ROMpler piano is truly terrible on the Casio. Ironically, the synths and synth engine is fantastic - but I have plenty of synths, so ultimately got rid of it (after learning how to program it though, very interesting sound engine).

 

Bought the VR09 last summer - truly blew me away, I'm very pleased with it.

 

The sounds are superb for many things, especially Organ.

 

And, once you adapt to the interface, you may have the realization that i had, that this thing truly feels like an INSTRUMENT, not just a box full of sounds with an attached keyboard. The ability to make subtle (or not so subtle) changes on the fly, both with the drawbars, but also the effects and tone shaping, is really great.

 

 

[brenner13]

About needing different thumb drives - how about the same thumb drive, but create folders that organize the different sets - a folder for the sweetwater set, the axial set, etc. Then copy whichever one to load into the top-level, so there's always only one set at that top level. Obviously this wouldn't be good for a live situation - although swapping thumb drives and loading registrations during a live set would seem unlikely (unless you had a different registration set for each set in the setlist)

 

Unfortunately, there is no way for "folders" to be set up on a thumbdrive in the VR09, only 100 slots to save all internal registrations at once. However, the latest firmware will allow a single registration to be recalled and loaded to a single internal registration slot. But there's still the problem that the last deep edits of a tone will overwrite any previous edit of that tone for ALL registrations that use that tone. WesG has a better grasp and technical understanding of how the software works and described it well many pages back. It is a bad quirk, but still best to use different thumbdrives for different libraries.

[agitato]

Can the behavior modeling effects for the N sounds be engaged by playing the keyboard differently, or are they activated with a foot switch and/or the D beam controller?

[WesG]

Allan - the VR09 has good accordion and harmonica patches.

 

Wes

[tgeorges]

About needing different thumb drives - how about the same thumb drive, but create folders that organize the different sets - a folder for the sweetwater set, the axial set, etc. Then copy whichever one to load into the top-level, so there's always only one set at that top level. Obviously this wouldn't be good for a live situation - although swapping thumb drives and loading registrations during a live set would seem unlikely (unless you had a different registration set for each set in the setlist)

 

Unfortunately, there is no way for "folders" to be set up on a thumbdrive in the VR09, only 100 slots to save all internal registrations at once. However, the latest firmware will allow a single registration to be recalled and loaded to a single internal registration slot. But there's still the problem that the last deep edits of a tone will overwrite any previous edit of that tone for ALL registrations that use that tone. WesG has a better grasp and technical understanding of how the software works and described it well many pages back. It is a bad quirk, but still best to use different thumbdrives for different libraries.

 

Well I tried my idea for folders on the thumb drive and it worked. I created a few folders, moved data files around, and whichever files were at the top-level were the ones that the VR-09 recognized.

 

I was also able to edit registration names and registration set names manually on my PC.

 

-Tom

[xKnuckles]

Thanks Tom. That is good to know. :-)

[roygBiv]

indeed, thank you Tom, this is very useful info!

 

This will work better for my scattered brain, than remembering which Thumb-drive has which - I can just name the folders differently, then change depending on the gig

[tgeorges]

It's not ideal, that's for sure. If Roland were to update the firmware so that the Media capability could drill down into (and maybe even create) folders, that would help greatly. They wouldn't have to alter their storage/retrieval methods, since the same files would be used - just that they would be perhaps in a folder.

[allan_evett]

Allan - the VR09 has good accordion and harmonica patches.

 

Wes

 

Thanks Wes, brenner13, and roygbiv for the helpful comments. Seems this particular dog will definitely hunt. Just have to finish moving a few other pieces out of the stable, and we'll be ready to go with the VR-09.