Roland V-Combo VR-09

[jcazzy]

... So, to correct my post -- with the VR-09, if you are playing a Bb horn part, you hit the transpose button and turn the wheel until says "Bb". Still really straightforward.

 

Wes

Or just press and hold the transpose button then press the octave down '-' button twice. Works both ways. Or just play the part in 'Bb'.

[partyarty]

Well, you know, people who play a song in G and you know it in A means you have to tune it to Bb .. I find -2 a bit more intuitive.. But, its not a dealbreaker by any stretch, one of the small gripes even in the raving reviews of music tech and keyboard mag (less so) mention that registrations are a bit cumbersome.. and I am not really sure in what way.. I am totally used to the Korg structure of combis and programs.. but the ease in how to create splits and layers on the fly is something I look forward to..

[theGman]

Ref ^^^, it's nice that Transpose is so easy on a Roland; my Nord requires one to dive into menus, which really makes a difference in a live and dimly lit setting.

 

[Craig MacDonald]

Well, you know, people who play a song in G and you know it in A means you have to tune it to Bb .. I find -2 a bit more intuitive.. But, its not a dealbreaker by any stretch, one of the small gripes even in the raving reviews of music tech and keyboard mag (less so) mention that registrations are a bit cumbersome.. and I am not really sure in what way.. I am totally used to the Korg structure of combis and programs.. but the ease in how to create splits and layers on the fly is something I look forward to..

Partyarty,

 

There are a number of ways that registrations are a bit cumbersome. There aren't any dedicated up/down buttons to move from bank to bank, but you scroll through them using the wheel. There are no insert, copy, move function/buttons to allow you to organize your registrations into sets.

 

So while you have 100 registrations, which is ample for most players.. it can be a challenge to organize them.. so you have to think ahead. For me, I have created a bunch of generic patches that I keep in the lowest registrations.. basic AC/EP/organ patches.. a couple of generic layers and splits (including splits where I can use the VR-09 as a controller to have play an external module/synth and a couple of variations of this) and then I have my song registrations with them all named using the song name.. and I just dial them up between songs (I note the registration number on a hard copy set list).. I suppose you could organize your songs into alphabetical order but that would take a lot of work when you don't have an insert option. The only other thing I do when I'm working with my registrations, is that if I have two registrations for one song (one registration for the verse and a different one for the chorus or bridge) I make sure that they're in the same bank so I can switch them qickly using the buttons rather than the dial. This seems quicker and more reliable... (the dial can be a bit flakey some times).

 

Hopefully I've described the challenges with the registrations and ways to work around them, and this will help.

[WesG]

Hey, is anybody out there sharing registrations for VR-09 yet?

 

I was thinking of setting something simple up if there is any interest. It'd be like sharing DX7 libraries back in the day, only less annoying!

 

EDIT: I guess one complication is that some registrations require an alternate synth data file. That's kind of obnoxious. Is the only way to load the synth data file to load the whole registration set?

[WesG]

Also. Has anybody tried any of the Atelier registrations in Atelier mode?

 

There's a bunch up here: http://www.rolandatelier.com/tips_tricks/

 

I doubt there's much VR-09/Atelier user overlap, but Roland seems to think there might be.

 

Registration files for the Atelier organs are much, much smaller. But they end in .UPG and have a similar internal structure. The VR-09 files start with AT-2012 Regis. The other Atelier files I've seen start with AT-2010 and AT-2011. Looks like Roland is thinking about device-independent registrations.

[partyarty]

Hi Craig,

Yes that is what I was looking to understand, and it was one reason that when I first saw this board I wanted it immediately, but then calling up sounds needed at a gig were described as a PITA made me look around a little more.. Even checked out the Casio which was interesting but had 2 big reasons to forget it, organ and simply the size of it. Gigging is what the vr-09 is focused on and that is why it comes out ahead. I hope they find an easier way to deal with registrations, its the one area that board truly lets the purpose for which its made down as a practical matter when you go through the trouble of having lots of realtime knobs to change sounds immediately without having to dig into menus.. I am sure I will set up a few generic setups for a goto organ and piano and Ep.. and then for a song where its a couple of different sounds I will either look to set up 2 sounds as you described or possibly split keyboard.. I know you've run into other issues you hope for fixes on, and I am sure I will hit those places too the more I play with it. I was curious as to what you had the keyboard controlling externally..

[Craig MacDonald]

PArtyarty,

 

I used my VR-09 as a master to control my Kronos.. for a couple of gigs where I didn't want to use the double manual mojo + another keyboard. It just allows me fo have a bit smaller/lighter rig..

 

I created some splits where I would have the VR organ on top and the Kronos Acoustic piano on the bottom. I also had a couple of layers where I layered Kronos piano over VR organ, and a few other Kronos sounds that I simply preferred to play from the lower manual (I had my VR on the bottom)..

[WesG]

Pulling up sounds at a gig could be easier.......but I have used hardware where it was a heck of a lot harder. I find the VR09 really, really easy it use. I had never heard if it when I saw it in the store..the UI sold it after playing with it for 30 minutes.

 

I budget 2-3 seconds for sound changeover between songs, the VR09 is easily capable. The one problem I have is with my organ, getting set for Whiter Shade. Too many things to do and I'm in on the first bar!

[partyarty]

I think getting used to it will help, also can I assume if you have splits, you can use the lower split sound and up an octave the lower sound only, so you don't have to play the low sounds of one voice you might want to use as a main voice along and switch to the other main voice on top without changing any other settings. I think split organ does this for the organ sound anyway correct? the lower board is the other "manual" in split mode?

[theGman]

The lower board is the other sound. If I recall though, you can't just choose the lower board by itself, but have to the upper board alone, or upper and lower (together). The effects are only on the upper board.

 

I did notice on mine that when I spin the dial quickly to change presets, that some times even though I have selected a preset number correctly, the preset alongside it stays selected. I have to move the dial a little to get it lined up.

[partyarty]

Also I noticed Sweetwater will send a drive with additional sounds programmed by Daniel Fisher, anyone tried those out?

[theGman]

I have them. Nice variety, and since there are 100 preset spaces available, it doesn't hurt to have these included to show a variety of some of the sounds possible.

[Craig MacDonald]

Just to clarify when you use a second keyboard with the VR-09 it can be set to automatically assign it to the lower keyboard (I think it's either in the midi menu or the controller menu) and it responds to the full keyboard range of the lower part of the split. So for example you can have the VR-09 organ on top, and a full Acoustic Piano on a lower weighted keyboard/controller, and the lower keyboard will respond across the full weighted action keyboard, and the VR-09 AP's and EP's respond surprisingly well to a weighted action controller.

 

Pick up an inexpensive 88 note weighted controller (I use a yamaha KX8 that I got for $350) and the VR-09 can drive 2 different sounds on different keyboards all night long.

 

[WesG]

Has anybody out there tried joining two VR09s? It would be nice if you could stack two VR09s as a dual manual organ with independent drawbars.

 

I suppose you could get most of the way there if there is some way to use the expression pedal to control two manuals at once. Hmm.

[To B3]

Very curious about what's cookin on that OS update! Hoping for new functionality and something about effect assigninging, new effects, stuff like that, besides the new sounds, of course... My flash drive is prepared... ... No more news about that?

[WesG]

Hey, has anybody figured out how to get monophonic patches yet? "Solo: ON" does not seem to do anything.

[partyarty]

The machine shall arrive Friday.. I will probably have to update it 1.02. Is that only done through flash drive or can you direct usb to the keyboard.. Looking forward to it! As for adding a controller, I can understand since this board is so light, adding things keeps things light, but for now, I am trying to get away with one keyboard. If Casio had come up with a weighted 61 (why doesnt anyone do that?) and did something about the organ, it would have been interesting, there are already sliders on the thing. Practiced with the old 20 pound korg karma tonight.. make way for the new lightweight in town!

[partyarty]

It has arrived.. brought it to a practice after just being home making sure it powered up.. It took a few minutes to find the volume control for the organ! LOL.. but its clear the organ needs tweaking and I was able to find some good ones but no clue yet on saving and recalling from registration.. the piano sounded great in a blues-rock kinda thing.. I noticed I liked bringing it down an octave.. beat any korg piano thats for sure, (karma and m50). though I am sure the kronos pianos are probably pretty good.. The organ is going to be a lot more involved, that I can see.. some sounds cut through well, others screech in one register and disappear in another.. Looking forward to tweaking it up!

[partyarty]

ok so 3 notes from me in a row.. First gig tonight, one day after getting the instrument, I spent maybe a little over an hour finding a good organ sound, piano, and then a string/pad mix that I would use to intro the show.. I also had to make sure all sounds were tuned down 1, and the sounds worked great. Admittedly I just needed a decent rock piano, but actually the rock piano did not sound as good as the grand even for the rock parts. I figured out the whole registration thing without cracking the manual, so its pretty easy to manipulate and control the instrument.. My one criticism, and this has been mentioned before, when you change one sound to the next mid-song and you are playing.. there is that over loud sound of one of the voices and I noticed this when setting up the sounds, so I tried to make sure on the changes I stopped playing for a second.. But one time I did not and it made this noise and the bass player looked over and laughed because he thought it a playing mistake.. They need to fix that. The machine is meant to play live, then it shouldn't do something like that whilst live playing.. Otherwise, they loved the difference of the better sounding organ (and I had picked up organimation for the m50) and this one did great. Overall the keyboard was easy to play, I don't really understand all the talk about the feel of the keyboard.. I could play solos, chords, glissando, arpeggios, just as easily on this keyboard as any other. That's the story so far, and the best part was grasping the keyboard with one hand in the middle and picking it up and putting it away. Try THAT with that 27 pound Casio! loved it!

[brenner13]

Your machine must still be on OS 1.00... Ther have been two updates that fixed the super loud PLONK! when changing sounds. It operates with "patch remain" now but the effects change with the new patch selection so it still is not perfectly smooth, but way better than the 127 velocity hit with the first Opration System version. Earlier in one of the two main threads there are links to the new OS download website. I'd look for you but I just got back from a bar gig and need a small snack and some sleep...

[partyarty]

is there somewhere on the keyboard that tells you what version is installed.. usually it would be on opening screen I imagine, but all I see is the word roland. When I download the update, I would have to use a flash drive to install the update I assume. Also, there is a page that was with the manual that says "new function added to the vr-09" and it mentions individually loading registrations which I thought WAS something in an update..

 

Ok I checked out 1.02 update.. I looked at the PDF on the download, it has exactly the same page that is printed out that came with the manual about individually loading registrations, so it DOES have the update.. I can only assume the PLONK was much worse, it was still quite noticeable on a organ to piano change.. I will just have to be aware on changes to give it a beat.

 

And I did see holding the EXIT key while turning on will tell you the version, so I think I know where it's at.. I saw they almost had 1.03, but from what I see I am assuming they felt they addressed this issue as much as they are going to.

[brenner13]

http://www.roland.com/support/article/?q=downloads&p=VR-09&id=63055093

Found the link, but looks like you've already got it.

 

This board has some of the quirkiest memory allocations and saving restrictions of any I've encountered. It appears the programmers are trying to include new presets with the next update and the first attempt must have had some gremlins. I'm sure everyone is nearly as anxious as me , but we certainly appreciate the Roland folks working to make it right.

[WesG]

Hold down keys and change from organ to piano. If the change is a mild effects change, you have 1.01 or better. If all the notes re-trigger, you have 1.00.

 

You're right about this being a weird board w.r.t. registrations. Having registrations reference synth settings that are unique per USB key is really a black eye.

[Philip Clark]

It's official. I pulled the trigger on one of these yesterday.

 

So now I can go back in this thread and glean some knowledge. I can already tell this board is going to be a monster.

 

I do have one problem so far. I'm trying to do the system update from 1.0 to 1.02. I've moved the update folder to my Roland-formatted USB drive. But when I do the boot-up sequence to update, the display just freezes with no "updating..." prompt at all. I've followed the instructions from the PDF to the letter. I don't understand why the update sequence doesn't work. A little help?

[BEMcCut]

Dreamchilde, I had the same thing, I believe. I just got a blank screen. I tried again last night and waited longer and it loaded. It took longer to start than I thought it would.

[Philip Clark]

Dreamchilde, I had the same thing, I believe. I just got a blank screen. I tried again last night and waited longer and it loaded. It took longer to start than I thought it would.

 

Ok, thanks for the tip. I guess I'll just fire it up and then go make dinner or something.

[BluesKeys]

I first apologize but I tried searching for this and had no luck.

Question

Is there a substitute for the Roland Wireless USB that will work on the VR-09? I just dislike spending more than I have to and looks like I could buy a NETGear wireless USB for $15.00 verses $50

 

I want to use it with the iPad app.

[MotiDave]

Ask Craig MacDonald.

 

(what, too soon?)

 

[WesG]

The one I got in the Roland packaging says, IIRC, "Netgear WNA-1100" on it. I have no knowledge w.r.t. COTS equivalents.

 

All - I am working on a VR-09 Patch Librarian web service. I am at the stage now where I could really use some data files to test with from a VR-09 that isn't mine, so that I can ensure that my reverse engineering of the data file format is correct.

 

If anybody has some files that you would be willing to share with me, I would really appreciate it. My personal email is wes at page dot ca. I could use both VR09_xxx.UPG and VRSYN001.DAT files from your USB storage. If you have any idea of what changes you've made to deep synth data, it would be helpful to include a note. The firmware version of the VR09 might be good to have, too.

 

My end goal is to create a registration-sharing website. For the curious, my source code is published here: https://code.google.com/p/vr09-tools

 

Wes