SK-1 and 2 Tips, Tricks and Other Cool Stuff.

[Joe Muscara]

Craig, as far as the "sarcastic" comments some have made, they're just having fun. They don't mean anything bad by it. I have to remind myself of that sometimes, and I've been here a while! Also, I do it too sometimes.

I dig the way he's pissed all over JMcS, who is about as knowledgeable and helpful as any cat out there when it comes to the recent Hammond stuff, when JMcS was only trying to help....

I get what you're saying. I'm just trying to be neutral.

[Craig MacDonald]

I don't see telling 3 people that they must must be hearing hiss in their SK1 EV's because they have them turned up too loud as helpful. I appreciate that JMcS provides lots of advice in these forums but that wasn't the case here. I just finished returning a defective SK1, that I waited 5 weeks for, and Hammond was too f-ing busy celebrating Christmas holidays to send me a replacement until some time in the New Year!

 

Meanwhile I was actually contributing to this thread and trying to help a couple of other guys on this list understand and deal with the same problem I was having, and JMcS swoops in and tells us that we don't really have a problem and we must doing something wrong.. WHAT??? Sorry but at this point I don't have any patience for that kind of help!

 

 

[kanker.]

I don't see telling 3 people that they must must be hearing hiss in their SK1 EV's because they have them turned up too loud as helpful. I appreciate that JMcS provides lots of advice in these forums but that wasn't the case here. I just finished returning a defective SK1, that I waited 5 weeks for, and Hammond was too f-ing busy celebrating Christmas holidays to send me a replacement until some time in the New Year!

 

Meanwhile I was actually contributing to this thread and trying to help a couple of other guys on this list understand and deal with the same problem I was having, and JMcS swoops in and tells us that we don't really have a problem and we must doing something wrong.. WHAT??? Sorry but at this point I don't have any patience for that kind of help!

 

Yeah, asking what your settings are to see if it's reproducible on a unit that doesn't seem to be having any issues is being unhelpful. http://www.macosxaudio.com/forums/download/file.php?avatar=4674_1263587685.gif

 

JMcS has too much class call you out, but I'm more than happy to.

[HammondDave]

I tried sitting on the keyboard. I drank a bunch of vodka and then tried sitting on the keyboard. I recited a bunch of bad jokes, drank more vodka, and then sat on the keyboard. .

 

Damn, Adan.... You stole my playing technique!

[James Fry]

I can hear the hiss loudly enough to annoy me when playing the EVs at normal playing levels, either through Sennheiser HD25 headphones, JBL EON 15G2s, Behringer B210ds (don't laugh), or the Mordaunt-Short system that I use with my disklavier. It is far worse when playing quiet passages, and with large chords, but it is still there all the time, and it is clearly evident in the recording I made (which was straight out of the SK1 into a Zoom H4n). I think this rules out something in the external signal chain or impedance matching issues.

 

I will be contacting Hammond when I return home in a week or so about this issue. I regret buying from a small independent (but fairly local) store; if I had bought from a large chain I would not hesitate in returning it and get a Nord (or possibly a Kronos, but I don't see any deals anything like as good in the UK as the one mentioned here!).

 

Another sticking point: there is also clicking in some of the loops, eg Rhodes 1 near the bottom of the 61 key keyboard has samples that click, and there are higher up notes that have tremolo effects because of bad loops.

 

Then there is the trigger point on the organ. Yes, you get used to it - kind of - but it still trips you up, and it is *really* annoying from a keyboard sold as an Electro competitor. It makes squabbling, smooth slurred runs, palm taps, alsorts of things harder than they need to be.

 

[Craig MacDonald]

It was clearly stated by Pawel that everything was set to normal, and reiterated several times in this thread, by myself AND ONCE AGAIN NOW by James Fry.

 

I don't see telling 3 people that they must must be hearing hiss in their SK1 EV's because they have them turned up too loud as helpful. I appreciate that JMcS provides lots of advice in these forums but that wasn't the case here. I just finished returning a defective SK1, that I waited 5 weeks for, and Hammond was too f-ing busy celebrating Christmas holidays to send me a replacement until some time in the New Year!

 

Meanwhile I was actually contributing to this thread and trying to help a couple of other guys on this list understand and deal with the same problem I was having, and JMcS swoops in and tells us that we don't really have a problem and we must doing something wrong.. WHAT??? Sorry but at this point I don't have any patience for that kind of help!

 

Yeah, asking what your settings are to see if it's reproducible on a unit that doesn't seem to be having any issues is being unhelpful. http://www.macosxaudio.com/forums/download/file.php?avatar=4674_1263587685.gif

 

JMcS has too much class call you out, but I'm more than happy to.

[JMcS]

Kevin, Thanks.

 

Craig,

I think this is the paragraph that offended you. Please read it again.

So far no one who has heard the noise loud enough to be a problem has mentioned where they had the volume (Master and EV) set. On mine if I turn both volumes up almost all the way I can hear some hiss. At the levels I normally use them - Master ~10:00, EV ~12:00, I can't hear any noise. I don't know if some make more noise than others or if the noisy ones just have their volume turned up very high.

 

Nowhere in there did I suggest that anyone who heard the noise was turning the volume up too high. I had asked several times what the specific volume positions were where the sounds could be heard. No one up to that point had answered that question. Therefore, I didn't know. James Fry has just added some more details and that helps but as you state above, Pawel described his as "everything was set to normal". Now, what the hell is "Normal"? I remember reading a post some years ago somewhere by a guy who was complaining he couldn't get rid of some distortion. When told it sounded like he was overdriving the input stage of an amp or mixer, he wrote he had been told that with keyboards you normally turn the volume up all the way. You never answered the question either. If you had simply noted at what knob positions the sound could first be heard, we would have had specific information that could be compared to every other SK-1. That might have been useful to all of us and Hammond. When possible I try to deal in specifics that can be compared, measured or analyzed etc. it takes interpretation of terms out of the equation.

 

On Dec. 23 you mentioned in the Clonewheel group that Hammond had just offered to send you a new one that didn't exhibit the noise but that they wouldn't be able to do it until after the new year because they were closing - it being the Friday before Christmas. You felt that they should have been able to go out back and ship you a new one right then and since they couldn't/wouldn't you returned yours for something else. Fine, everyone's problem is solved. However, if they did what they said they would do, they would have opened and checked more than a few to find one that had no noise. Maybe this being the shopping season, they didn't have many (or possibly any) left in stock and were waiting on a delivery. They were trying to do what they could to resolve your problem in the best way they could. You were impatient (I'll refrain from suggesting you were in the middle of a hissy fit - its too easy) and quite frankly I don't think you would have been satisfied with whatever they sent you if you could have heard any noise even if you had to turn it up all the way to hear it. Since then you have listed the many other complaints you have about the SK-1 so it worked out well for you. Those of us who have SK-1's and 2's and are happy with them disagree with you.

 

Merry Christmas, Happy New Year

 

IMO, YMMV, Yada Yada Yada

[Craig MacDonald]

JMsC, the last half of the last sentence, that you just quoted, states you don't know if there is a real problem or "if the noisy ones just have their volume turned up very high".. that is exactly where you suggested that we had our volumes up to high.. do we really need to debate this?

 

Do we also need to debate what the word normal means?

 

I was not having a "hissy" fit (very cute since we're dealing with Sk1's that hiss, although again a bit insensitive). I was simply trying to help Pawel who seems to be having the same problem that I had with my unit. I told him, and others how to test their SK1's to see if their units had the problem (or to what extent), I told him that it was a recognized problem (as related to me via my dealer), I told him that Hammond had offered to replace my unit, and I suggested that anyone with the same problem should consider returning their unit. I also told him that Hammond told my dealer that it was a problem with the Noise Gate and then, if I remember correctly, you proceeded to state that the SK1's did not have a noise gate (contrary to what Hammond told my Dealer). By the way, I have a whole lot more faith in my dealer than I do in Hammond these days!! And you've have obviously drank far too much Hammond KoolAid to have any credibility with me.. sorry.

 

I haven't heard anything more from Pawel, but it looks like James Fry is considering returning his SK1, good for you James, I don't think that Hammond should be allowed to get away with these quality problems! I also don't think that further debate on this topic serves any purpose. Obviously you would like to pretend that you were just trying to help, and I would prefer to dwell on your sarcasm to fuel my continued "hissy" fit.

 

I am happy for those of you that are enjoying your SK1/2's, and perhaps I might have been happy as well had I not received a defective unit (after waiting 5 weeks), or had Hammond not told me that my problem was "negligible" despite agreeing that they would replace it, or had Hammond cared enough about my issue and customer satisfaction to ship me a replacement before they all left to enjoy their Christmas Turkey.

 

As a result of my first hand experience with Hammonds poor quality control, and their poor Customer Service and Support, I took a much more critical look at pros and cons of the SK1 and decided that the SK1 wasn't for me. End of story.

 

JMsC there is no doubt that you will continue to defend HAMMOND to the death, no matter what, that is obvious. Whatever Hammond is paying you for your helpfulness to those in need, and your sarcasm towards those who dare to question Hammonds quality control.... they're not paying you enough, so go ask for a raise, you deserve it!

 

Craig

[Craig MacDonald]

James,

 

My problem was exactly the same, and while someone suggested that you wouldn't notice the problem in the mix with a live band, I actually think the problem would be worse, especially in quiet passages, because the hiss would be amplified. There is no question that this hiss is internal to the SK1 it's not in the signal chain or impedence matching problems. I put it straight into my Studio mixer/monitor, my QSC K10s, and we listened to it on the dealers work bench.. with exactly the same outcome.. huge hiss on the acoustic piano EV's.. So much hiss that my dealer was shocked when he heard it (and shocked to have Hammond refer to this as a "negligible problem").

 

I never noticed the looping on the Rhodes sound... didn't get that far I guess.

 

In all fairness to Hammond, I love the design point here, and that's why I ordered one.. how could you not love a great sounding 15 pound Hammond clone with a set of drawbars (arguably two might be better), along with good quality Extra "bread and butter" Voices that can be layered, and last but not least the ability to upgrade the Extra Voices?

 

Unfortunately, it isn't living up to it's design.. as you point out the keyboard triggering is a problem, it felt very stiff to me for an organ clone (although I expect this could be fixed in an OS update). The EV's are very medeocre and quite limited (my opinion of course). There isn't even a half decent warm string sound. They've got some obvious quality control issues, and they're already at release 4 trying to fix all the problems.

 

Admittedly, the EP's are OK and I really like the clavs but the acoustic pianos are very medeocre (kind of like typical General Midi quality). The thing that really bothers me after owning and playing the SK1, is that you can go and buy a Yamaha MOx6 for $11-1200, and the library of pristine voices is huge (including some great organ sounds). So you're basically paying about $800 more for a set of drawbars, a whole lot less sounds (and much lower quality sounds), and the Hammond name of course, which aint worth $#!+ to me any more.. (that's it I'm done ragging on Hammond).

 

James one word of caution regarding the Kronos 61.. the keyboard is "semi-weighted".. and while it has a VERY light touch, it does have a bit of a stiffness akin to the SK1. So while I really like it for playing pianos and EP's. it will take some getting used to for organ, but it strikes me as a nice balance of lightness for organ, and yet some substance for playing pianos (which BTW on the Kronos are absolutely oustanding).

 

If you're not in a hurry, wait for NAMM.. I'm sure that there will be some new stuff from Nord and others.

 

Craig

[kanker.]

Do we also need to debate what the word normal means?

After reading all of your hostile drivel, I can come to the certain conclusion that you don't know the meaning of the word normal, so debating it with you would be meaningless . I do congratulate you though on swooping in at the eleventh hour to win the asshat of the year award.

[Craig MacDonald]

Kanker, as far as swooping in at the last minute.. that award goes to you, for contributing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to this thread whatsoever, except to step in at the last minute and criticize me.. Well done.. and nicely chosen handle how appropriate..

 

At least JMcS did contribute something to this thread, unlike yourself.

[Adan]

So Hammond tells a customer, on Dec 23, the Friday before Christmas, that they will send them a new unit after the new year, and the customer decides that this is unacceptable, and that Hammond has poor customer service. That's quite a story. I'd like to see someone get a better result out of some other keyboard manufacturer. Especially if that someone is Craig McDonald, whose people skills seem to be about on par with the common alligator.

 

This story does have a happy ending. No longer will we have to read Craig McDonald complaining about his SK.

[Craig MacDonald]

Adan, if you actually read what I have posted, you would understand that my issues with Hammond are as follows:

 

1. Their quality control and waiting 5 weeks only to get a defective unit

2. Hammond admitting there was a problem with the unit, and agreeing to replace it, while telling the dealer that they consider it to be a "negligible" problem

3. Hammond making no attempt to resolve this in a timely manner, yes before Christmas (and I think my dealer also felt that this demonstrated a lack of concern for customer satisfaction on Hammonds part).

 

That's 3 separate issues, none of which have anything to do with my people skills because all of these discussions took place between Hammond and my dealer (who by the way was having trouble even getting Hammond to return is phone calls before Christmas)!

 

I don't know where you come off with your sarcastic "I drank vodka and sat on my keyboard"..? Maybe you think it's funny that there are 3 people on this list who are dealing with this problem in their brand new $2000 SK1's, but to all of us it's a pretty serious problem. NOW you're venturing beyond sarcasm into the realm of insults.. Aren't you a wonderful person.. and you question my people skills?

 

Yes I have a problem with Hammond, and I also have a problem with people who have nothing constructive to contribute to this thread but choose instead to post sarcastic and insulting comments. You and Kanker are at the top of the list for adding nothing constructive to this thread, just sarcasm and insults. At least at various points during this thread JMcS was trying to help and contribute and kudos to him for that. Perhaps JMcS is offended, because I called him out on his silly suggestion that all three of us experiencing hiss in our SK1's because we all have our volumes turned up too high. Perhaps he's upset because I suggested that he's been drinking too much Hammond KoolAid. There's not much I can do about that because unfortunately I call it as I see it and it really seems like JMsC must be on Hammonds payroll.

 

Seriously, Adan, if you haven't got something constructive to add to this thread why don't you just stay out of it? By the way, my name is Craig MacDonald, not Craig McDonald... If you're going to insult someone it's a lot more effective if you get their name right.

 

 

 

 

 

[HammondDave]

I do congratulate you though on swooping in at the eleventh hour to win the asshat of the year award.

 

Dammit! I thought I had it in the bag!

[AnotherScott]

I do congratulate you though on swooping in at the eleventh hour to win the asshat of the year award.

 

Dammit! I thought I had it in the bag!

Don't give up, you still have about another 36 hours to give it your best shot!

[Craig MacDonald]

Dave, whey you come up to Toronto you and I can sort this out.. we'll see who wins the asshat of the year award.. and the first drink at the Orbit Room is on me.

[HammondDave]

Dave, whey you come up to Toronto you and I can sort this out.. we'll see who wins the asshat of the year award.. and the first drink at the Orbit Room is on me.

 

Excellent! I will be there next Sunday for two weeks.

[Craig MacDonald]

The Orbit Room usually has bands EVERY night.. including Sundays, and a house B3. I'll see who's playing what nights and let you know.. contact me off-line and let me know where you're staying and how to contact you..

[Dglavko]

A Keyboard Corner meeting at the Orbit Room. Count me in on that if you have room, as I'm 15 mins away.

 

I promise not to praise the SK1/2 or speak of politics...

[Craig MacDonald]

A Keyboard Corner meeting at the Orbit Room. Count me in on that if you have room, as I'm 15 mins away.

 

I promise not to praise the SK1/2 or speak of politics...

 

OK then you're invited.. we will have to publish our evening at the Orbit Room on the Keyboard Corner..! Stay tuned...

[JMcS]

Perhaps JMcS is offended, because I called him out on his silly suggestion that all three of us experiencing hiss in our SK1's because we all have our volumes turned up too high. Perhaps he's upset because I suggested that he's been drinking too much Hammond KoolAid. There's not much I can do about that because unfortunately I call it as I see it and it really seems like JMsC must be on Hammonds payroll.

 

Not offended

Not upset

Haven't had KoolAid since I was a kid

Not on the payroll

 

Still haven't accused you or anyone else of having the volume up too high to cause the noise. Did ask where the volume was set, didn't get an answer.

 

Now, Craig, for the love of God, please move on. Somebody start a Korg Kronos tips topic.

[HammondDave]

Toronto Hammond Summit is ON!

[Craig MacDonald]

OK peace brother, I'm done (unless one of these other @#$%'s make another crack).. and JMcS as much as it might not seem like it, I do recognize and appreciate all the help you provide on this forum.

 

 

[Dglavko]

Toronto Hammond Summit is ON!

 

Great - btw, if things get ugly or we get NAMM envy, there is also a store about 10 minutes away which usually stocks the SK1, Numa, XK's, Nords, Kronos, and Kurzweils, Ventilator... but no QSC's (go figure on that).

[drawback]

Toronto Hammond Summit is ON!

 

Great - btw, if things get ugly or we get NAMM envy, there is also a store about 10 minutes away which usually stocks the SK1, Numa, XK's, Nords, Kronos, and Kurzweils, Ventilator... but no QSC's (go figure on that).

 

Jeez, get them to expand to Vancouver. Doesn't sound like L&M!

[Dglavko]

Jeez, get them to expand to Vancouver. Doesn't sound like L&M!

Yep - it's L&M @ Bloor & Ossington.

 

They usually even have an A100 sitting around sitting sadly neglected.

[Adan]

Adan, if you actually read what I have posted, you would understand that my issues with Hammond are as follows:

 

1. Their quality control and waiting 5 weeks only to get a defective unit

2. Hammond admitting there was a problem with the unit, and agreeing to replace it, while telling the dealer that they consider it to be a "negligible" problem

3. Hammond making no attempt to resolve this in a timely manner, yes before Christmas (and I think my dealer also felt that this demonstrated a lack of concern for customer satisfaction on Hammonds part).

 

That's 3 separate issues, none of which have anything to do with my people skills because all of these discussions took place between Hammond and my dealer (who by the way was having trouble even getting Hammond to return is phone calls before Christmas)!

 

I don't know where you come off with your sarcastic "I drank vodka and sat on my keyboard"..? Maybe you think it's funny that there are 3 people on this list who are dealing with this problem in their brand new $2000 SK1's, but to all of us it's a pretty serious problem. NOW you're venturing beyond sarcasm into the realm of insults.. Aren't you a wonderful person.. and you question my people skills?

 

Yes I have a problem with Hammond, and I also have a problem with people who have nothing constructive to contribute to this thread but choose instead to post sarcastic and insulting comments. You and Kanker are at the top of the list for adding nothing constructive to this thread, just sarcasm and insults. At least at various points during this thread JMcS was trying to help and contribute and kudos to him for that. Perhaps JMcS is offended, because I called him out on his silly suggestion that all three of us experiencing hiss in our SK1's because we all have our volumes turned up too high. Perhaps he's upset because I suggested that he's been drinking too much Hammond KoolAid. There's not much I can do about that because unfortunately I call it as I see it and it really seems like JMsC must be on Hammonds payroll.

 

Seriously, Adan, if you haven't got something constructive to add to this thread why don't you just stay out of it? By the way, my name is Craig MacDonald, not Craig McDonald... If you're going to insult someone it's a lot more effective if you get their name right.

 

I did not read all of your posts -- I don't have that much free time -- but I did read enough to pick up on those 3 points. This thread did not start when you started posting in it. This thread is supposed be a place where people can go to read about "tips, tricks, and other cool stuff."

 

Several posts ago, you said you were "done with this thread." And yet you are still here.

[James Fry]

It makes no difference where the volume is set. You can hear the hissing (actually, I think this is quantisation / compression noise from a bad sample compression algorithm) at any volume. It is especially noticeable at low volumes when playing sensitively (surprisingly, I found this quite easy to do on the SK1 keybed).

 

The more notes you play, the louder it gets. Any effect tends to make it worse because it modulate the hiss too - eg phaser, chorus.

 

My recording clipped at a couple of points when playing (mainly due to switching between patches and the overdrive settings ending up with a higher level output, eg the clav bit), but the hiss is present on all of the sample based instruments. It is not present on the Hammond/Farfisa/Vox organs (though I didn't play that on the recording).

 

The question I still have is whether it is a major issue or not - I wont be playing it in a large band situation until the 9th Jan, so I'll see then, but I suspect I'll end up despising it in the same way I despise my Korg Triton for it's awful piano samples.

 

[Jim Alfredson]

From your description it sounds like a bad DAC. Send the unit back and get a replacement.

[JMcS]

James, thanks for your detailed posts. Yours is definitely doing things mine doesn't do.

 

Jim, thanks for your diagnosis and suggestion.