SK-1 and 2 Tips, Tricks and Other Cool Stuff.

[pawel]

Piano is very noisy, I thought that the new system will change, but not changed. What now?

Has anyone tried to contact the support hammond ?

[JMcS]

Where do you have the master volume and Extra Voice volume set?

 

Do you have either the EV EQ or master EQ treble boosted?

 

Have you tried re-downloading the Release 4 software and then re-installing it? Possibly there was some damage to the file.

 

What size USB drive did you use when installing the update?

[pawel]

This noise is in all version. Eq is in the middle position.

[JMcS]

Where in the range of motion of the control knobs do you have the Master and EV volumes set?

 

It may be that something didn't go right during the install. Have you used the same USB drive each time you did an install? Have you re-downloaded and un-zipped the update file and re-installed it?

[Jeff_D_in_MD]

The "Bypass" Switch

 

Just as with the onboard Leslie sim, your normal playing position is with the Bypass switch OFF. In this mode, the 8Pin connector sends all three audio signals (organ, EV L/R) and the two speed toggles (stop, fast) to the 2101.

 

If you turn Bypass ON, Pin 1 is muted, and the "rotary" audio is rerouted to the "stationary" audio on Pins 4/6. In this mode, the 8Pin connector sends only L/R stereo audio -- the organ and EVs are submixed together, exactly as if you were using only the dedicated L/R 1/4" outs. The speed controls are still active, but useless since no rotary signal is present.

 

Can you please clarify the usage of the 8-pin output with a converter cable? Is it possible to send Organ only (including simulated Leslie) as a plain audio signal through that output, and the extra voices through the standard 1/4" outs, so they can be routed separately to a mixer?

 

With the Nord Electro 2, you can configure the L/R stereo outputs as two mono channels, one with organ and one with the extra voices. This does not seem possible with the SK1 [having perused the manual], so I was was wondering whether the 8-pin output could be used (without a Leslie or a Ventilator) to similar effect. I do this with the Nord in order to have separate control over the volume.

 

[Craig MacDonald]

Pawal

 

I returned my SK1 within 24 hours of owning it due to the noise/hiss I was hearing, and I would encourage you to do the same.

 

I first noticed this hiss in the acoustic piano samples, but it is not limited to the acoustic piano samples it also exists in other samples. My dealer contacted Hammond and was told that some SK1's have this hiss due to the operation of the noise gate (I assume that the noise gate isn't functioning correctly in some units). Hammond stated that they feel that this is a "negligible problem", meaning that they don't feel it it is serious, but they have agreed to exchange my unit for one that is less noisy. Unfortunately before they could arrange for a replacement unit, Hammond closed for the holidays, so my issue will not be resolved until some time in the new year.

 

I upgraded my SK1 to the newest level of operating system, release 4 and it had no effect on the problem. So I assume that this is hardware rather than a software/OS problem. Therefor I would recommend that anyone who has an SK1 that is displaying this problem, should return their SK1 and request an exchange. If you want to know how to determine if you have this problem, select factory patch 22 (bright acoustic piano) and turn the main treble knob all the way up, press the sustain pedal and play a chord and let it ring and sustain until the sample stops. On my Sk1 the hiss/noise was so loud that it overpowered the actual piano sample.

[Craig MacDonald]

Incidentally between this forum and other forums that I subscribe to, it seems that many people are experiencing this hiss/noise in the Extra Voices, to different degrees. Some, like myself, have returned their units to Hammond, and some are simply living with it, because they are using it primarily as an organ, and some others have chosen to attempt to EQ the hiss out of the sounds.

 

While this might be acceptable for some, it is certainly not acceptable to me.. If I am paying a premium price for a product like this, I expect it to be of high quality and I should not have to correct or eq out noise that exists on these extra voices!

 

[To B3]

I read the manual countless times... Still did not figure how you can apply more than one effect to a extra voice... Say, a wurly with overdrive and tremolo... and a clav with pedal wah and drive...

 

Maybe it would be easier if I had the instrument... But by now while I can't find one to play and test, just with the manual, just could'nt figure that out... Probably it's easy and not a too "sub-menu-ey" procedure.. Or I'm too used to the NOrd interface, I don't know... Anyway, can any of you explain a step by step procedure of taking a extra voice (not a factory preset, but one waveform from the extavoice list) and turning it into one of those two "user sounds" I'm referring? Many thanks in advance, guys.

[JMcS]

Select an EV, (E.Piano #10 Pg. 130)

 

Turn EV Overdrive On and adjust Drive and Type (Pg. 95 #12 - 15 (See pg. 88 for graphic of menu)).

 

From Overdrive Menu Scroll up to EV Effects menu.

Select Effect type (Tremolo) (pg. 95 #16 (See pgs 88 - 95 for description of all effects and menu/parameter choices, pg 89 #'s 5 - 7 for Tremolo).

 

Save the setup to a User Patch. Name it something like B3 Org + Trem Wah. This will make 1 User Patch. It will not save the EV + OD + Tremolo as a voice you can call up for other Patches. You could select this user patch, modify it and save it as another User Patch ie: Tr Org + Trem Wah. (I didn't count the letters so the name may be too long.)

 

The EV Overdrive can only be turned on via the menu. There is no other on/off button (like the effect has). The Effect button can be used to turn the Tremolo on/off. Pressing and Holding it for a second will bring you to the Effects menu. You could then scroll down and turn OD off. The organ has both an OD and an Effect On/Off button.

 

There are a few Clav sounds that seem to have Wah built into the voice. The Wah seems to be velocity controlled (I haven't worked with these much so am not sure). With these voices you may be able to turn one of the other effects on since the Wah in the sound isn't the effects Wah.

 

 

[b3plyr]

No question - hiss is not acceptable. But I would also be concerned about the reply you got from your dealer. Their reply just doesn't seem right. Why would there be a noise gate in the first place, much less in a high level signal path? And as you said, Hammond closed for the holiday, so how could they get an answer so quickly? Although it won't fix your problem, I would ask the dealer if that was really the HS reply or their supposition.

 

Like I said before, mine works fine. But I do have an SK2. Maybe there were some changes between the releases.

 

Will

 

 

[JMcS]

 

There is no noise gate in the SK-1 or 2. There is one in the XK-3 and '3c for when a noisy effect is put in the effects loop. When using it for something like a reverb, it cuts the signal off abruptly when it fades down to the selected point (there are 2 cutoff points). Having the SK's do that would be a larger more widespread complaint.

 

The SK-1 and 2 have the same main board so there wouldn't be any difference there.

 

So far no one who has heard the noise loud enough to be a problem has mentioned where they had the volume (Master and EV) set. On mine if I turn both volumes up almost all the way I can hear some hiss. At the levels I normally use them - Master ~10:00, EV ~12:00, I can't hear any noise. I don't know if some make more noise than others or if the noisy ones just have their volume turned up very high.

[James Fry]

It's not a "hiss" that's always there. It comes from playing samples.

 

To show it at its worst:

1. Use headphones.

2. Turn volume up to a fairly high setting (or maximum).

3. Select the "Bright Acoustic Piano" preset (22?)

4. With the palms of your hands (or arms) play as many notes as you can as gently as possible, such that they only just sound.

5. If your machine is anything like mine, you'll get a large amount of digital artifacts that largely manifest themselves as hiss, before slowly fading out as digital noise to silence after a few seconds.

 

For all of this I had EV at maximum volume, and master EQ flat.

 

[Octopus]

Now I join the club!

 

Thank you Santa

 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/41266903/sk2.jpg

 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/41266903/sk22.jpg

[Joe Muscara]

Rock and/or roll!

[Craig MacDonald]

 

Hammond has admitted to my dealer that there is a problem and they have said that different units display varying degrees of the hiss. They have said that they would replace my unit with a new SK1 (would they do this if there wasn't a problem?).

 

Furthermore, several people on this list and other lists have complained about the same thing.. James and Pawel in this thread, along with myself, and several others on the Clonewheel forum along with some people who have contacted me off-line saying that they returned one for this very reason.

 

To ignore all of this, and suggest that we've all got our SK1's turned up too loud can only be a result of you trying to protect the reputation of Hammond (which is now in the toilet as far as I am concerned).

 

On my unit it was quite noticable on the acoustic piano samples (especially when sustaining notes and even with a flat EQ), and it was unbearable if you dared to turn up the treble.

 

Despite the suggestion that there is no noise gate in the SK1/SK2, the noise in the EV's would dissappear within 2-3 seconds a sample playing out and it sounded exactly like a noise gate closing down (which was entirely consistent with what the dealer related to me).

 

 

 

So far no one who has heard the noise loud enough to be a problem has mentioned where they had the volume (Master and EV) set. On mine if I turn both volumes up almost all the way I can hear some hiss. At the levels I normally use them - Master ~10:00, EV ~12:00, I can't hear any noise. I don't know if some make more noise than others or if the noisy ones just have their volume turned up very high.

[JMcS]

Hammond has admitted to my dealer that there is a problem and they have said that different units display varying degrees of the hiss. They have said that they would replace my unit with a new SK1 (would they do this if there wasn't a problem?).

 

Furthermore, several people on this list and other lists have complained about the same thing.. James and Pawel in this thread, along with myself, and several others on the Clonewheel forum along with some people who have contacted me off-line saying that they returned one for this very reason.

 

Someone who isn't happy with something should return it if the issue can't be resolved satisfactorily quick enough.

 

To ignore all of this, and suggest that we've all got our SK1's turned up too loud can only be a result of you trying to protect the reputation of Hammond (which is now in the toilet as far as I am concerned).

 

I wasn't ignoring anything. I asked a few times where the volume on units whose owners could hear a hiss was set and until earlier today had not received a response. While I'm not defending Hammond's reputation, I am trying to determine where exactly the problem might lie and what might be the cause. As you can read above, in order to make the noise obviously noticeable the volumes on that unit both had to be turned up all the way and all the keys had to be played. On my SK-1, unless I do all that, I can't hear any hiss and even then only through headphones. I can make it hurt to walk by putting pebbles in my shoes too. If it didn't take all that to make the noise obvious on yours then what did it take? Where did you have the volumes set? Did you have to turn the treble up to adjust for your amplification? Since you were already using the Bright Piano voice, why did you have to crank the treble up?

 

I've mentioned where I have the volumes set on mine, and that at those settings I can hear no noise. Are there units where the noise is noticeable at those settings? It would be nice to be able to figure this out.

 

On my unit it was quite noticable on the acoustic piano samples (especially when sustaining notes and even with a flat EQ), and it was unbearable if you dared to turn up the treble.

 

Despite the suggestion that there is no noise gate in the SK1/SK2, the noise in the EV's would dissappear within 2-3 seconds a sample playing out and it sounded exactly like a noise gate closing down (which was entirely consistent with what the dealer related to me).

 

On mine eventually the piano sounds just fade out. If I crank everything up to cause a noise eventually it stops but I think it is just timing out.

 

 

 

So far no one who has heard the noise loud enough to be a problem has mentioned where they had the volume (Master and EV) set. On mine if I turn both volumes up almost all the way I can hear some hiss. At the levels I normally use them - Master ~10:00, EV ~12:00, I can't hear any noise. I don't know if some make more noise than others or if the noisy ones just have their volume turned up very high.

 

I'm very happy with my SK-1, I suspect there are many others who are too.

[Craig MacDonald]

You are obviously one of the lucky ones that has an SK1 without excessive hiss.. I'm sure that there are other happy customers too, but there are also some customers who have some issues (3 of which have said they have this excessive his and commented in this thread).

 

I think it has been clearly stated that the hiss exists without turning up the volume to any extreme, and it exists without any unnatural EQ. We have stated how you can make this hiss more obvious, but that doesn't mean that you have to do something unnatural in order to hear it. I also stated that I could EQ the hiss out, but we shouldn't have to do that! I shouldn't have to turn down the master Treble EQ (which affects all of my sounds, including Organ) in order to eliminate hiss from these EV sounds!

 

We have 3 people on this list who are commenting on the excessive hiss in the SK1's, and your suggestion that we all must have our SK1's turned up too loud, wasn't helpful.

 

 

 

 

[HammondDave]

I think we can all expect this to happen with modern electronics. Take the new Samsung 7000 and 8000 series of plasma tvs. Many are reporting a very loud buzz emanating from these sets. However, many are not. I just purchased one, and it is absolutely silent and has a beautiful picture. If it buzzed, I would send it back, and hopefully the replacement would be fine.

 

Hammond/Suzuki may be experiencing poor quality components from China. But it also sounds as if people are turning these keyboards up to high levels to hear this abnormality.

 

Now, it is true that these keyboards should be super high quality... But let's be real. We are talking about a 2000 dollar clone with some extra sounds. The SK series is a live performance keyboard. No one could probably hear this hiss in a live band situation... And I doubt anyone with critial sound quality needs would consider recording with one. We are not talking Yamaha Motif or Korg Kronos here.... Do you want pristine sounds? Then buy a high end workstation...

[Octopus]

Hiss in some extra voices doesnt matter to me...

 

I bought Sk2 just for the two manual organpart and light weight.

 

Im glad I dont have this problem :-)

 

I think one can find problem in all keyboards if you really search for them.

[Craig MacDonald]

Dave,

 

NO ONE IS TURNING THEIR SK1'S UP TOO HEAR THIS HISS!!! On my unit you could hear this hiss at normal volume levels any time the a note sustains!! The hiss exists either within the sample, or in the signal path that the samples take, and it does not exist with the organ sounds. There is something wrong with the design or the production of the Hammond SK1's. It does not exist within the organ sounds. ABSOLUTELY this hiss would be noticable in a live band situation when this hiss was amplified!

 

When people spend $2000 on a keyboard that bills itself as the "NEW LIGHTWEIGHT FULL FEATURED HAMMOND ORGAN" you'd expect the features that they promote to work properly! Of course we expect the Extra Voices to sound good, that's why we purchased the SK1 rather than a host of other clones. Dave, if it was you that purchased an SK1/2 thinking that it could cover off all your bread and butter keyboard sounds, and you discovered that the non-organ sounds were noisy as hell, all the keyboard forums across the country would be lighting up from all the flames you'd be posting..

 

However, you are absolutely right that the SK1 isn't a Motif or a Kronos, and I went out and bought a 61 key Kronos to replace my defective SK1, and it only cost me $500 more! For that little extra bit of cash, I have a great updated CX3 organ engine, and 8 other synth engines, and more pristine sounds than I will ever have time to listen to.

 

When I spent $2100 (Canadian) on my Hammond SK1, I expected high quality bread and butter keyboard sounds. What I got was and overpriced organ with an unusable and limited number of hissy extra voices. That's not what was advertised.

 

[Craig MacDonald]

 

This is exactly why Hammond is getting away with these crappy quality extra voices.. Luckily for them a lot of people are buying the SK1/2's just for the organ sounds.

 

I bought the SK1 thinking that I could handle a typical gig in my classic rock band which basically means organ/acoustic piano/electric piano/clavinet/strings/brass.. the organ is great, the acoustic pianos are awful, the electric pianos are OK (but you can hear hiss in some of them as well), the brass sounds are crappy (but it's hard to find good brass sounds), and there are no warm strings (only synth strings and solina strings). You can now download some strings but they are awfully harsh sounding.

 

Octopus I'm glad you don't have the problem and the SK2 is working for you.. it just didn't work for me..

 

Hiss in some extra voices doesnt matter to me...

 

I bought Sk2 just for the two manual organpart and light weight.

 

Im glad I dont have this problem :-)

 

I think one can find problem in all keyboards if you really search for them.

[HammondDave]

Dave, if it was you that purchased an SK1/2 thinking that it could cover off all your bread and butter keyboard sounds, and you discovered that the non-organ sounds were noisy as hell, all the keyboard forums across the country would be lighting up from all the flames you'd be posting..

 

 

You are absolutely right. But if you remember my posts on the H/S SK 1/2, you would realize that I would never buy one. I felt that it was a poor design from day one... One set of draw faders instead of two sets of real drawbars, non-traditional control layout, using the old technology from the xk3c sound engine instead of upgrading to KeyB or VB3 organ engines, substandard Leslie sim, bad overdrive, external power brick.... The list goes on...

 

But it is what it is. A lot of people like it because it weighs less than a typical keyboard and they feel it sounds good enough for them. Musicians with critical ears would never put up with deficient qualities of sound.

 

I was watching The Kennedy Center Honors the other night, and the excellent organist was not using a clone.... He was playing a Hammond B3.... I also see B3's used on most top act tours.... Must still mean something....

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

Dave agreed!

 

Regarding using the real B3.. I have to admit that I'm not sure the real deal would work for me anymore, I have really gotten used to playing piano on the lower manual of my NORD C2 (via midi using an external synth module).. I don't like having to reach up top of a B3 for all my other sounds!! I had to do this when I used the house B3 at the Orbit Room, and as much as it was nice to play the real deal.. reaching up for there for the piano/strings etc.. was a pain in the ass.

 

These days the quality of these clones is so close to the real thing and there really are some other advantages with midi and extra voices (and dials to control the Overdrive) etc.. I'm not sure I can go back now!!

 

If I was just playing hammond, absolutely B3 all the way, but I don't have that luxury these days.. I have to cover off all the other keyboard parts as well.

 

Craig

 

 

[Adan]

I hear no hiss at all with the piano sounds. I tried turning the volume all the way up and playing all the notes at once. I tried sitting on the keyboard. I drank a bunch of vodka and then tried sitting on the keyboard. I recited a bunch of bad jokes, drank more vodka, and then sat on the keyboard. Nothing I did could produce a hiss. There's a very tiny amount of hiss in the rhodes patch. I tried to care. I could not.

 

If you have a hiss that makes the SK "unplayable," then you have a defective unit, and I would bet anything that Hammond would replace it. It's that simple.

[Joe Muscara]

I'm pretty sure Craig and others have said they hear the hiss in all cases. Still, I want to relate something here to consider.

 

I have a 2009 MacBook Pro. I also have some cheap Boston speakers I got for like $25 years ago. I think they were designed to be used with a Gateway system. While these speakers sound better than the built-in speakers, there is a noticeable hiss when I use them. The hiss will sound for a number of seconds after the music or audio stops, and then it cuts off. There is no hiss from the internal speakers nor when using headphones. This has made me wonder if there is something mismatched between the computer and the speakers.

 

Similarly, I wonder if the Hammond SK has issues with certain amplification systems that makes the hiss audible with those. Of course, if a replacement SK doesn't do that, then it's a hardware defect in the previous SK. Also, I'm not saying that it's okay for Hammond to have shipped units like that. It obviously should work with any amplification system it would encounter, just like other gear they and others have sold. I just want to put out there the possibility of it being related to amplification. If I had an SK that exhibited the hiss, I'd try other amplification to see if it makes any difference.

 

Craig, I've been reading your posts here and on Clonewheel. Sorry you had problems with the SK, but I'm glad you found a board you are happy with!

[Craig MacDonald]

Adan,

 

Yes it seems pretty simple doesn't it.. except when Hammond says that all their SK1/2's display various levels of hiss, from none, to a little, to a lot (as in my case).. and they deam it to be a "negligible problem", and yet there we are 3 different people on this thread alone who are concerned about the same problem!

 

I'm trying to help by relating my experience and in return I'm receiving a whole bunch of sarcastic bullshit comments like "you're obviously turning it up too loud, and "I tried sitting on my keyboard and couldn't make it hiss"!! If you hear no hiss, then congratulations, because that means that you won in the Hammond SK1/2 "noise lottery", but some of us weren't so lucky.

 

I did return my SK1 as defective. I received my money back, AND Hammond offered to replace it with one that had less hiss in the NEW YEAR. Unfortunately they were too busy taking f-ing holidays to send me a replacement last week and they left me waiting until the new year for final resolution! So, I chose not to wait until they were ready to replace my defective SK1 sometime in the new year.. Instead I purchased a 61 key Kronos. Funny thing is that for only a few hundred dollars more I got an updated CX3 engine that sounds just as good as the Hammond SK1 and, rather than just a few medocre hissy Extra Voices, I have 8 other synth engines with so many other pristine sounds that I will probably never have time to listen to all of them.

 

My SK1 is gone, and I'm done with this thread, except for one last point.. Adan, if you don't hear any noise when you sit on your keyboard why don't you try turning your stool upside down and sitting on that...

[Craig MacDonald]

Joe thank you for your post, at least someone else is trying to be helpful here, I'm pretty sick of all the sarcasm (as you can see from my post to Adan).

 

I don't think it's related to amplification. The hiss was very apparent on my QSC K10's, and when I took it back to the dealer, they put it on their test bench to understand the problem, and it was just as bad there and a completely different amp.. In fact the keyboard consultant that I dealt with was shocked at how much noise there was.

 

So from my personal experience it exhibited the noise on two very different amplification systems, and based on that I would suggest with reasonable confidence that that's not the issue, but at least it was a constructive suggestion unlike some other posts.

[Adan]

Adan,

 

Yes it seems pretty simple doesn't it.. except when Hammond says that all their SK1/2's display various levels of hiss, from none, to a little, to a lot (as in my case).. and they deam it to be a "negligible problem", and yet there we are 3 different people on this thread alone who are concerned about the same problem!

 

I'm trying to help by relating my experience and in return I'm receiving a whole bunch of sarcastic bullshit comments like "you're obviously turning it up too loud, and "I tried sitting on my keyboard and couldn't make it hiss"!! If you hear no hiss, then congratulations, because that means that you won in the Hammond SK1/2 "noise lottery", but some of us weren't so lucky.

 

I did return my SK1 as defective. I received my money back, AND Hammond offered to replace it with one that had less hiss in the NEW YEAR. Unfortunately they were too busy taking f-ing holidays to send me a replacement last week and they left me waiting until the new year for final resolution! So, I chose not to wait until they were ready to replace my defective SK1 sometime in the new year.. Instead I purchased a 61 key Kronos. Funny thing is that for only a few hundred dollars more I got an updated CX3 engine that sounds just as good as the Hammond SK1 and, rather than just a few medocre hissy Extra Voices, I have 8 other synth engines with so many other pristine sounds that I will probably never have time to listen to all of them.

 

My SK1 is gone, and I'm done with this thread, except for one last point.. Adan, if you don't hear any noise when you sit on your keyboard why don't you try turning your stool upside down and sitting on that...

 

You got a defective keyboard, but you didn't want to switch it for a non-defective unit because of a concern that they might send you another defective unit. Seems to me you could have just said "send me one with no hiss."

 

But if you think the CX3 on the Kronos sounds as good as the SK1, then you've got the perfect solution. Before I bought my SK, I listened to every clone and tried every one that I could get my hands on (unfortunately, there were some, like the Numa, I couldn't). And of course, it's not just about sounds, it's about function and form as well. For instance, I wouldn't want to play organ from non-waterfall keys. $2,000 is too much to spend without doing that sort of research first.

[Joe Muscara]

Craig, as far as the "sarcastic" comments some have made, they're just having fun. They don't mean anything bad by it. I have to remind myself of that sometimes, and I've been here a while! Also, I do it too sometimes.

[kanker.]

Craig, as far as the "sarcastic" comments some have made, they're just having fun. They don't mean anything bad by it. I have to remind myself of that sometimes, and I've been here a while! Also, I do it too sometimes.

I dig the way he's pissed all over JMcS, who is about as knowledgeable and helpful as any cat out there when it comes to the recent Hammond stuff, when JMcS was only trying to help....