SK-1 and 2 Tips, Tricks and Other Cool Stuff.

[Tonysounds]

Hopefully we can all move on to tips and tricks now. I have certainly said all I need to say on this topic.

 

And then immediately after....

 

Actually, I think people are crucifying me for two things..

 

In the words of the late great John Belushi: "Over? NOTHING is over until we say it is!"

 

But to be honest, Craig, your experience is questionable: through it all youve been dealing with the dealer (not HS directly), and you think hes treating you well based on your gut. Uhokay.

 

Ill play Devils Advocate here just because I can, and my experience with HS has always been great, even when I received a defective Xk1 and an XM2 module with a battery message right out of the gate. In both cases, they had me ship it right back and sent me a new replacement even though it was something they could talk me through on the phone.

 

Nord had quality control issues initially on Electros (I received 3 defective ones, likely damaged in shipping due to their inadequate packaging). In that case Sweetwater was my dealer, and I will say the stepped up to the plate big time on my behalf. (Great service!)

 

Every Kronos Ive played in a store has had pieces missing, and a couple came off in my hand while demoing the units. The one person I know who has one is sending his back because of build issues. Kronos shipped months later than promised. (So your issues of quality control and promises arent HS issues exclusively, if indeed your gut is right, and your dealer is taking care of you.)

 

Comparing an SK1 to a workstation is about as apples and cardboard boxes as comparing an Electro to a workstation. Better to compare an Electro to an SK1. (And I wont bother addressing how great the Kronos CX3 will be after tweaking, because tweaking is what its all about, on ANY instrument.)

 

Outkaster, this forum may be "anything but Pro Hammond" but this thread certainly is Pro Hammond! There's no question about that.. look at what happened to me for suggesting hammond support and the SK1 was less than perfect!!

 

Like I said, nothing is over until. Theres circumstantial evidence, theres empirical evidence, and fact is generally not predicated on one of those (not to say that it couldnt be). But like any good science, limiting the number of factors for variance lets you get to the truth of a matter with more certainty. Gut feelings and third-party intel arent empirical, and thats where youre getting grief.

 

Kool Aid. Mmmmmmmmm.

 

[Meisenhower]

I dunno if everyone is bailing on their XK's and Nords just yet, but it does have some of us really considering a change.

 

Case in point.

 

I'm a "pro Hammond" guy, to a point. Here's why. Aside from being a big box console guy since the stone age, I've had a literally flawless experience with my XK3 which I bought new in 05 and it has grown into the full XK Pro system in the subsequent years. I've not had one second of downtime from this rig which has been a real workhorse and gigged regularly since I got it.

 

Same goes for my NE2. I originally bought the Nord on "impulse" to use as a "jam session" ultraportable, and really didn't expect it to be much more. Over time, it became integrated into my funk/soul band rig, along with my CP33, because if it's small footprint and lightweight (and the XK3 top stayed home for these gigs). It too performed flawlessly, until with age, an intermittent problem with the "Control" jack arose, and nothing short of replacing the motherboard would fix it (but it only affected the organ side, when using the control pedal jack), and only then occasionally.

 

Now . . . I'm in the hunt for a replacement for my aged NE2.

 

I like the sound of the NE3 (while I prefer the sound of the Hammond clone, and like VB3 even more), the NE3 cuts fine for the funk band and the "other sounds" are great. I HATE the interface for the NE3 to the point that I won't buy one. Let's take a perfectly good user interface and screw it up . . . thanks Nord.

 

SK1/2 looked like the holy grail, Nord killer. Well, not quite. Despite loving the organ side of the SK, the EV side didn't quite do it for me (and I didn't have any hiss or noise to distract from my evaluation unit). However, between the initial QC issues AND the fact that I didn't love the EV's from a unit that was working properly, it didn't sell me. Maybe that will change as their library grows, and I know they quality problems will be a thing of the past (interjecting some Hammond "fanboy" optimism here).

 

For me, I have to wait for the dust to settle on the SK series or Nord to release a new generation Electro with a better UI. I don't want a rompler (I have one and almost never use it for my bread and butter sounds (Hammond, clav, rhodes and AP), not because of its sounds (except that the organs suck), but it's a 61 and I hate the keybed on my Motif ES6).

 

Oh yeah . . . the point of this original post for me.

 

I'm seriously considering the Mojo to replace my XK Pro system (almost on weight alone) . . . . but not until I've had the chance to play one in the flesh. It look and sounds THAT good (at least on the videos and recordings I've heard).

 

That said, even a "pro Hammond" guy like me is still more "pro my own money" and will spend those dollars where I think they'll work best for me.

 

[Jim Alfredson]

I'm pretty much in the same boat. Y'all know I'm a pro-Hammond as they come and endorsed by them. However, I still spend my hard earned money on the gear. And the MOJO looks and sounds great. I'd love to try one and if it plays as well as it sounds, then I would seriously consider one for organissimo. However, my main concern is how to connect a set of MIDI pedals to it and whether I would have to buy the Crumar MIDI pedals or whether I could use the Hammond ones I already have. 25-note pedal boards aren't exactly cheap.

 

And that's my main concern with the SK-2, too. How do I connect the 25-note Hammond pedal board that I already have? I don't see a way to do it, since AFAIK, it gets it's power from the EXP-100f expression pedal output from the XK3/c, not from MIDI nor from an external PSU. The SK-2 doesn't use the EXP-100f. A two-manual organ without full-sized pedals is worthless to me.

 

Maybe JMcS knows.

[Tonysounds]

That said, even a "pro Hammond" guy like me is still more "pro my own money" and will spend those dollars where I think they'll work best for me.

 

+1

[Meisenhower]

However, my main concern is how to connect a set of MIDI pedals to it and whether I would have to buy the Crumar MIDI pedals or whether I could use the Hammond ones I already have. 25-note pedal boards aren't exactly cheap.

 

And that's my main concern with the SK-2, too. How do I connect the 25-note Hammond pedal board that I already have? I don't see a way to do it, since AFAIK, it gets it's power from the EXP-100f expression pedal output from the XK3/c, not from MIDI nor from an external PSU. The SK-2 doesn't use the EXP-100f. A two-manual organ without full-sized pedals is worthless to me.

 

This is a concern for sure.

 

The Mojo will accept a MIDI pedal board, no problem, but I suspect the XK3 Pro system pedals will NOT work (but Guido should be able to give the final word on this). Maybe something like the XPK-200L might be better, but it's still NOT a full 25 pedalboard. I think the XK pedals might be proprietary, and have never heard of anyone using them with anything other than an XK system.

 

The SK2 . . . I don't know. There isn't ANY mention of a pedal board option in any of the specs, but once again, if there was, I doubt it would be anything other than a typical MIDI pedalboard. I wouldn't consider the SK2 for a replacement for my XK series, anyway.

[JMcS]

And that's my main concern with the SK-2, too. How do I connect the 25-note Hammond pedal board that I already have? I don't see a way to do it, since AFAIK, it gets it's power from the EXP-100f expression pedal output from the XK3/c, not from MIDI nor from an external PSU. The SK-2 doesn't use the EXP-100f. A two-manual organ without full-sized pedals is worthless to me.

 

Maybe JMcS knows.

 

I don't have any technical info on the pedalboard itself. The Exp-100f cable provides +15 and -15 volts to the expression pedal box which then feeds the pedalboard (if there is a lower manual in the path it gets its voltage from this line too). I don't know if an adapter could be made that would provide just the voltage to the pedalboard. The EXP-100f can't be made to work with the SK-1. I'm pretty sure the pedalboard will not work with just the voltage from the MIDI cable.

[JMcS]

If anyone needs to use an attached keyboard to change patches on the SK-1, I was able to use an External Zone on my XK-3c to send Program and Bank changes to the SK-1 and it responded to both. The default Bank MSB and LSB numbers are 0 for both. At those settings, changing the program change number would call up User Patches from 1 - 100. If I changed the Bank MSB value to 1, the program change numbers called up the Preset Patches.

 

Here are the messages the '3c sends when changing Bank MSB from 1 - 0:

B0 00 00 Channel 1. Controller:0 (Variation Bank Select), Val:0

B0 20 00 Channel 1. Controller:32 (), Val:0

C0 61 Channel 1, Patch:97 (GM:Soundtrack) *Always 1 less than the # displayed on the '3c and SK-1.

B0 63 01 Channel 1, Controller:99 (NRPN MSB), Val:1

B0 62 40 Channel 1, Controller:98 (NRPN LSB), Val:64

B0 06 00 Channel 1, Controller: 6 (Data Entry), Val:0

 

When changing Bank MSB from 0 - 1:

B0 00 01 Channel 1. Controller:0 (Variation Bank Select), Val:1

B0 20 00 Channel 1. Controller:32 (), Val:0

C0 61 Channel 1, Patch:97 (GM:Soundtrack) *Always 1 less than the # displayed on the '3c and SK-1.

B0 63 01 Channel 1, Controller:99 (NRPN MSB), Val:1

B0 62 40 Channel 1, Controller:98 (NRPN LSB), Val:64

B0 06 01 Channel 1, Controller: 6 (Data Entry), Val:1

 

When sending just a program change it sends the current Bank info plus the program change. The MSB value changes to 3 and the Patch and Controller 6 values change to the program change number.

 

If your controller sends NRPN data, you might notice things like Percussion turning on and off, the Leslie changing speeds etc. If so, you can turn NRPN off in the MIDI menu and it will stop responding to those messages. The Bank and Program data still changes the SK-1.

 

 

Good Luck.

[JMcS]

Lately much has been written about noise in the SK-1's Extra Voices. Not to get another fire storm going but here are some suggestions. If anything doesn't sound right, re-install the software even if it is brand new and may have been updated at the factory or at Hammond US or Hammond EU etc. If someone there used a large drive the OS update may not have installed properly. If it still doesn't sound right, re-install it again preferably using a different USB drive. It might also be a good idea to re-download and unzip the update again. In addition, use a small 1 - 4Gb drive. I have updated to new versions and re-installed older versions at least 10 times trying different USB drives, updating the libraries and just to see what would happen etc. I have had the formatting process not complete with the larger (16Gb) drives and update installations not complete with the larger (16Gb) drive. I have had a couple of installs that seemed to complete properly with 8 and 16Gb drives that produced some stuck notes and other noises. Re-installing the same software with a smaller drive fixed the problem. While USB drives and all memory cards like CF cards should meet certain specs and be compatible they are not always. Anyone who had an XK-3 and tried to find a compatible CF card can attest to this (it had to do with the operating voltage required by the CF cards). While Hammond tried to test many USB drives they couldn't test every one on the market (refer to the FAQ in the Support section of the Hammond US website). So far I have not had any trouble with updates using 1, 2 or 4Gb USB drives. The 8 and 16 Gb drives seem to work fine for Setup files and MP3's.

 

Good Luck.

[arX]

I've been trying to download the software updates from Hammond but all links seem to be down, at least from this page:

 

http://www.hammondorganco.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=227%3Ask1sk2-software-update-update&catid=38%3Aiframes&Itemid=156

 

Does anyone have backups? Or know what the situation is? Cheers.

 

EDIT: A generous member here has offered to upload it for me. Thanks again.

[JMcS]

 

 

It is back up on the Hammond US website.

 

Good Luck.

[arX]

Cheers, JMcS. Downloaded and installed now.

[arX]

Hammond do not like Farfisa.

 

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6435/fart.png

[James Fry]

So, it seems the noise I can hear (quantisation/digital compression/whatever) is part of the instrument and not a fault on my unit. It is clearly present on the samples on the hammondsuzuki.com website. Ah well!

[JMcS]

Do you mean the ones here?

 

This: HammondSuzuki.com takes me to this website:

 

Hammond EU

 

If so, please post which instrument/example and the time in the playback where it is present. Maybe I am blessed with bad ears but I can't hear anything that doesn't seem right. I have the playback volume and computer speaker volumes both turned up all the way.

 

Note: Just to clarify, I'm not implying/suggesting/claiming there is no noise, only that I can't hear something.

[James Fry]

It is most clear on demo4 (they've got copy+paste errors on the links) but it is present in all the Piano and EP recordings there.

 

Demo 4 URL should be http://www.hammondsuzuki.com/download/cd-sk-demo-04.mp3

 

I have taken the last couple of seconds of the clip and normalised it. This is purely to illustrate the problem - so there is other background noise there too.

 

http://jamesfry.com/cd-sk-demo-04-end-normalised.m4a

There is clear noise, which slowly reduces to almost square wave (quantisation effects?), before abruptly cutting off. This is what I hear on my SK1 on headphones, and it is also present through my gigging speakers, but not quite as noticeable.

 

On sounds that use the EQ and/or use stronger effects (eg phaser, chorus) it is more pronounced. However, one can more easily ignore that since we are used to hearing EPs through awful stomp boxes, noisy preamps, wahs, etc.

 

[Sven Golly]

I have the playback volume and computer speaker volumes both turned up all the way.

 

Perhaps listening on something better than those speakers would be a better approach?

 

(Note that I'm not suggesting the sound is or is not there, merely that you're probably not using the most audiophile quality speakers on/in your computer.)

[James Fry]

Oh, and the more notes played, the worse it gets. So if you play big, thick chords (7, 8 notes), or make liberal use of the sustain pedal, the hissing gets louder and louder. Thats clear on the rhodes and DX7 in my original recording (jamesfry.com/sk1_pianos_eps_clav_pipeorgan.m4a) at around 2:30 - 3:00 (at 2:50-2:55 it almost sounds like a phaser effect) and 3:18 - 3:50.

 

My Nord Stage doesn't do this. The SK1 is supposedly competing with the Electro 3 (its priced the same and has similar features) - the Electro3 has basically the same Piano engine as the Stage.

 

 

[JMcS]

It is most clear on demo4 (they've got copy+paste errors on the links) but it is present in all the Piano and EP recordings there.

 

Demo 4 URL should be http://www.hammondsuzuki.com/download/cd-sk-demo-04.mp3

 

I have taken the last couple of seconds of the clip and normalised it. This is purely to illustrate the problem - so there is other background noise there too.

 

http://jamesfry.com/cd-sk-demo-04-end-normalised.m4a

There is clear noise, which slowly reduces to almost square wave (quantisation effects?), before abruptly cutting off. This is what I hear on my SK1 on headphones, and it is also present through my gigging speakers, but not quite as noticeable.

 

On sounds that use the EQ and/or use stronger effects (eg phaser, chorus) it is more pronounced. However, one can more easily ignore that since we are used to hearing EPs through awful stomp boxes, noisy preamps, wahs, etc.

 

I can hear the noise in the sample you made. Which is the original noise and which is the other? I could only hear a sound like that on my SK-1 when I turned both the EV and Master volumes up all the way and listened with headphones.

 

 

I have the playback volume and computer speaker volumes both turned up all the way.

 

Perhaps listening on something better than those speakers would be a better approach?

 

(Note that I'm not suggesting the sound is or is not there, merely that you're probably not using the most audiophile quality speakers on/in your computer.)

 

I've listened to the website samples with my headphones in the past and couldn't hear anything then. My computer speakers may not be the best but I could hear noise in the enhanced sample.

 

 

Oh, and the more notes played, the worse it gets. So if you play big, thick chords (7, 8 notes), or make liberal use of the sustain pedal, the hissing gets louder and louder. Thats clear on the rhodes and DX7 in my original recording (jamesfry.com/sk1_pianos_eps_clav_pipeorgan.m4a) at around 2:30 - 3:00 (at 2:50-2:55 it almost sounds like a phaser effect) and 3:18 - 3:50.

 

My Nord Stage doesn't do this. The SK1 is supposedly competing with the Electro 3 (its priced the same and has similar features) - the Electro3 has basically the same Piano engine as the Stage.

 

 

James, I guess you have a decision to make. I've made suggestions regarding installing/reinstalling the OS (which would include the System libraries and other files), if that doesn't make a difference then work with your local dealer to get a replacement or a refund.

 

Good Luck.

[James Fry]

I will probably end up keeping it for now. On the EPs it isn't offensive, and for what I wanted the pianos for (rehearsals) it is fine, if slightly annoying.

 

The Organ and leslie sims are very good though IMO, the overdrive is pretty good (if a little digital at high gains), and the playability of the acoustic pianos, EPs and clavs on the waterfall keyboard is excellent. I also like the ability to have a controller connected for 2nd manual and/or piano sounds so those things are probably going to sway me - until Clavia beat it I guess. I wonder if we'll see SK1 style piano/organ at the same time, pipe organ, etc in the Electro4?

[James Fry]

I should add that I've reinstalled the OS and sample libraries twice now using a decent USB sticks of 1GB and 8GB, but given that I can hear the same artifacts in the samples on the Hammond site, and on a third party site, I suspect these are features of the current hardware or firmware.

 

Regardless, it is probably nit picking. My Korg DS8, Emu Proteus MPS, and Yamaha TX81Z have far more noise than that, and I seem to remember the Roland D50, D10 and M1 having their fair share of noise too! Anyway, it gets lost in the mix, and its far quieter than the breath noise in a trumpet or sax!

[ESFlash]

How Can I Get Three Sounds From Two Keyboards?

 

I just joined this forum and like the idea of a tips and tricks thread for the SK.

 

Two daze ago I bought a "mint condition" lightly used SK1 (hopefully w/no problems) for $1560 that I should receive in a few days.

 

I work as a sideman playing mainly: blues, country, and whorehouse honky tonk rockNroll style piano.

 

My main axes (real stone age stuff) were an RD250S midied to a CZ101 (for organ sounds and pedal steel bends) both of which I finally retired from the road after about twenty or so years of pretty rough use.

 

I currently use the PX330 as my main gigging keyboard; love the action and piano sounds and especially the light weight. I've even used the built in speakers at some jam sessions; I thought those speakers would be the first thing I'd disconnect and trash; guess not.

 

Anyway, I digress....I'm hoping to use that PX330 board in conjunction with the SK-1.

 

I downloaded and read thru the SK1 manual and I'm a bit confused about slaving it via midi and generating multiple sounds.

 

I want to get three sounds from these two keyboards and I'm not sure of the midi parameters and settings I must configure to make this happen.

 

This is how I want the set up to be:

 

The PX330 will be used mostly for its piano and elect piano sounds.

 

The SK1 for organ sounds - I assume the SK1 keyboard would be set for "upper"

 

Assign a second set of organ sounds to the virtual "lower" SK1 manual that I could play on the PX -- I assume the audio for this lower manual sound would also come out of the single pair of L/R SK1 outputs -- is that correct?

 

So in the above setup, the SK now produce two sounds with one sound activated when I play the SK keyboard and the other activated when I play the PX keyboard.

 

I'm also assuming that if I use and setup the correct midi parameters I don't have to switch anything on the SK -- play the SK I get the upper sound and when I play the PX I get the lower sound I selected.

 

In the above configuration I'd like the volume control on the PX to just control the PX sound and not the SK lower manual sound. So If turn the volume up on the PX I'd have three sounds; turn it down/off and I have the two organ sounds.

 

I also would like to be able to assign the SK1 virtual lower manual setting for extra voices (hopefully with no hiss) such as Clav/wah and be driven by the PX330 -- same situayion as above except that I'm using the EVs instead of a second organ sound.

 

It might be easier for me to figure this out once I have the keyboard, but midi parameter settings have never been one of my strong points.

 

It was a simple matter with the old RD250S and CZ101 but both of these newer keyboards, the PX330 and SK1 are quite different beasts with a lot more capabilities.

 

Any step by step instructions help would be appreciated. -- sorry for the long wordy post.

[JMcS]

When you connect the PX to the SK it won't be a separate second organ, it will be the lower manual of the same organ as the upper manual (SK kbd). Select the "2 Manual" template (pg. 110 #1 & pg. 132). That should set all the parameters needed to have the PX be seen as the lower manual - check that the MIDI In (pg. 110 #2) is set to Lower. You can then allocate the EV's to the Lower Manual (pg. 58) and have them layered with the organ or as solo voices.

 

The PX won't control the SK's volume as long as you don't set the Expression control (pg. 78 #4) to MIDI.

 

Good Luck.

[AnotherScott]

The PX won't control the SK's volume as long as you don't set the Expression control (pg. 78 #4) to MIDI.

I don't think he'll even have to bother with that. I don't know about the PX330 in particular, but in my experience, Casio volume knobs are local preamp controls and don't send any MIDI at all. So it will probably work fine just the way it is.

[JMcS]

When I first read the post I assumed an expression pedal on the PX but you are right he just mentions the volume control.

 

If an expression pedal won't be used on the SK, make sure the expression monitor (pg. 78 #5) displays "127". Otherwise the full frequency range won't be at maximum per the level, low and high frequency limits (pg. 78 #'s 6 - 10).

[AnotherScott]

When I first read the post I assumed an expression pedal on the PX but you are right he just mentions the volume control.

Actually one of the unfortunate shortcomings of Casio pianos--particularly the PX3 which is specifically designed to also function as a capable MIDI controller--is that they don't have jacks for expression pedals.

[ESFlash]

Thanks a lot -- the SK is scheded to arrive this Thursday. I'll let you know how it goes. And you are correct the PX does not have a dedicated expression pedal input/output.

 

I've got a Yamaha FC7 pedal; one other question concerning expression pedals.

 

I know that with the SK, and some other keyboards, a dedicated expression pedal can do other things besides volume such as act as a wah wah pedal as well as be assigned to control other parameters.

 

But, if volume control is your main application for a pedal, what's the advantage of using a dedicated expression pedal in a jack expressly set up for the purpose as opposed to using a volume pedal connected inline from the output jack(s)?

 

 

[Meisenhower]

But, if volume control is your main application for a pedal, what's the advantage of using a dedicated expression pedal in a jack expressly set up for the purpose as opposed to using a volume pedal connected inline from the output jack(s)?

 

 

One of the BIG advantages is when you're in Hammond mode. The expression pedal will gradually add that "saturated" sound that is so characteristic of of the Hammond sound. Using an "in line" pedal on the output isn't able to trigger that aspect of the sound, as it's nothing more than a volume control.

 

Using an expression pedal is the only way to really play the instrument the way it was intended to be played!

[AnotherScott]

if volume control is your main application for a pedal, what's the advantage of using a dedicated expression pedal in a jack expressly set up for the purpose as opposed to using a volume pedal connected inline from the output jack(s)?

When it comes to organ, if the board is properly emulating a real tonewheel Hammond/Leslie, use of the expression pedal will simultaneously change the volume and the distortion/overdrive level, whereas a volume pedal on the line out will only affect volume.

 

Also, on many boards, expression pedals can be programmed to do different things on different patches (wah on a clav patch, volume/overdrive on an organ patch, etc.), or even different things within the same patch. For example, you might be able to do a piano and string layered patch and have the pedal swell in the strings without affecting the level of the piano.

[Tobias Åslund]

I agree with Meisenhower - if you're playing organ, the expression pedal needs to sit before overdrive and leslie. Also make sure that the SK is set to Expression -> Leslie and not the other way around.

 

Actually I really don't see any advantages of using an inline pedal after the output of a keyboard.

[JMcS]

Organ without expression pedal is like piano without velocity.

 

You can have the expression pedal control the organ and EV volume but have it act as a Wah Wah control in some patches.

 

Edit:

Post #2367847 on page 3 of this topic has information on how to use the Expression pedal as a Wah Wah pedal in some patches.