Clueless when comping

[Bigsquatch]

I have a fill in gig this weekend with a band that plays a lot of country and so far learning the songs has been easy. Most are soooo simple.

 

But I've always been at a loss when comping. I always try to play to much and/or get carried away. Can anybody give me some classy examples of basic comping for basic country type songs? I'm not sure I've ever even truly understood what comping is all about.

 

Thanks.

[Bobadohshe]

Don't have time for in depth suggestions, but:

 

Rule #1 don't overplay. Always better to underplay or play nothing rather than overplay.

 

Try 'comping' by playing whole note chords while the singer sings, and doing a little fill in between vocal phrases. For country, you'd be well advised to learn the Major Blues Scale. That's the major pentatonic plus a flat 3rd. (1,2,b3,3,5,6). Some simple runs using that scale will go a long way in this style.

[Sven Golly]

Amazing how something that is "soooo simple" is something you need help with.

 

Wonder if Steve Nathan will chime in here...

 

[mate stubb]

I am not an expert, but even I know that for piano it all begins with Floyd Cramer. But that's for the more traditional stuff. Modern country resembles rock more than anything.

[Bigsquatch]

Chords progressions & song structure are simple. Sounding good while comping is not (for me). Chime away if you must but I don't believe I contradicted myself.

 

I'm probably overthinking it but I've just never seen any examples where someone said here's the type of voicing and phrasing you should start with. Believe me I've searched and listened and read but I'm not convinced I get it yet.

 

I appreciate the suggestion and the scale Bobadohshe.

 

And I do enjoy Floyd Cramer but I think you're right mate that that style would be out of place with modern country.

[allan_evett]

Bobby's suggested use of the Major Blues Scale is right on. Though in modern country I hear a fair amount of the Minor Blues Scale too. Sometimes I'll mix both during a fill, or solo. A lot depends on the key, and chordal structure.

Speaking of which, and to get back to the main topic - country comping - here are a few ideas:

 

Ballads: As Bobby suggested, whole note based voicings will go a long way. Simple, well placed fills between vocal phrases are good; usually the simpler the better. Just be aware of others on stage who are also 'fillers', i.e. guitar, pedal steel, fiddle. Often the piano part becomes more active during the chorus, and especially so during a bridge, solo section, etc.. A great example to check out is "Colder Weather" by Zack Brown. The country band I play in just started doing that one. There are several YouTube recordings of the song available.

 

Mid Tempo Tunes: These are a mixed bag. Whole note and half note based voicings still work well, especially on verses. On choruses, 2nd verses, etc. I often use an afterbeat RH pattern, based on the 2 and 4. I rarely use full chords, often working with a quarter note or dual 8th note based pattern that makes use of the open 5th, add 9; or I'll sometimes go with a 6th voicing that uses the 3rd with the root placed above that. A good example of this type of tune is "Cowgirls Don't Cry" by Brooks & Dunn. Also an older example would be "Party Crowd" by David Lee Murphy. When playing country it helps to have a solid fiddle patch in your bag o' tricks, just in case there isn't a violinist in the act. I was asked by my band to pick up the signature lead violin line on "Cowgirls..."

 

Up Tempo Stuff: All over the map here. If it's modern country (often a kick-ass, rock type thing) then basic rock piano comping will work fine. The number of other possible rhythm players generally influences how I approach that. With one guitarist I may play a complimentary mid-range driving part so the guitar player can play the signature riffs, fills, etc.. Often I use guitar style voicings, the 4th placed below the root open sort of thing (also adding in, sometimes, the root below - creating a root-5th-octave, which can be worked with the Major 6th rhythmically). While piano works fine for this, a good 'amped up' Wurlitzer tone can just kill. With two guitar players, I'll either kick the part up an octave, especially on the chorus, or just sit out (especially on a first verse). Or, those whole note based voicings can come into play. Octaves rock on this sort of material; Major Blues Scale based stuff (6ths, octaves, etc.) work great too, for segways, walk ups, fills, and solos. "That's How Country Boys Roll" by Billy Currington is one of many examples. "Gimme Three Steps" by Lynyrd Skynyrd is full of that kind of playing as well. IIRC the original recording is Wurlitzer based; I alternate between a Wurlie tone and piano when playing that tune. Another huge consideration in up-tempo country is whether or not the 'out front' keyboard is piano. While I frequently cover basic Hammond parts with the LH, while playing piano with the RH (on ballads,etc.), I'm thinking more of tunes where the Hammond tone is front and center; plenty of those out there these days. A couple that come to mind: "Someone Else Calling You Baby" by Luke Bryan, and "Hick Town" by Jason Aldean.

 

These three tempo/style examples will hopefully be of help to you in the short term - especially for modern country; hardly exhaustive of the genre though. There are many other twists and turns, stuff that falls in between, and other styles: old, up tempo country with the traditional comping on the 'and' of each beat, plus the famous 'train beat'(more of a strong beat, half note based deal, from what I been able to figure out..).

[SK]

Regardless of style, think of the music going on around you as your right hand on the keyboard, and support it.

[darc68]

I do alot of fill-in work and have found comping also depends alot on the group your playing w/. I will always keep it simple at 1st and listen to how the band plays as a whole. Are they busy? Do they stick to the original arrang.? What level of players am I dealig w/(very basic or true Pro`s). Example:

 

Alot of groups have very busy guitar or pedal steel players in country bands that will take every opening there is. This is esspecially true if keyboard isn`t part of their regular line-up. In that case I will do very little and just follow the prog. Only adding solo`s when they`re needed. I`ll also build @ croscendos or spots in the music where it`s needed. The Bottom line is I`ll keep it very simple.

 

Other bands are the opp. They keep it vey simple for one reason or another. This to me is where I can do more. I will test the waters by adding things as I hear them and watching how the band reacts to them. If they like it they`ll let you know and I`ll continue that way. If not they`ll also let you know and I`ll go back to simple playing much like my 1st example.

 

As far as the musical parts of comping go I agree that it`s usually very blues/ rock related. Allen`s advice is great.

Good luck w/ the gig. Enjoy yourself as much as possibe.

[Fusker]

Bobby's rule #1 is king, especially when filling in with a band. We KB players are so used to covering everything when playing solo that sometimes we forget to just shut up and fill a role. Leaving them wanting a bit more will garner more praise than brow-beating busy work.

[MoKen]

All good comments.

 

My fall-back position is that to add interest, 6ths are almost always welcome in Country. Flat 3rds are risky. Sometimes they work but often leave you looking sour.

 

My experience is very limited and mostly with 'classic' Country. That usually has a major feel to it.

[Bobadohshe]

My fall-back position is that to add interest, 6ths are almost always welcome in Country.

 

Yep hence the 'major blues scale' suggestion.

 

Flat 3rds are risky. Sometimes they work but often leave you looking sour.

 

You're exactly right. Minor thirds will work but not as often. It depends on how you pull the line off and how 'passing' the minor third is. If the melody is ON the major third, or a bunch of other instruments are playing voicings with nice shiny Major 3rds in them, they won't be ideal.

[Threadslayer]

And I do enjoy Floyd Cramer but I think you're right mate that that style would be out of place with modern country.

I'll have to disagree with that. The Floyd Cramer style is prevalent throughout country music to this day. It is actually based on traditional stringed instrument "Hammer - Ons" played on guitar, banjo, fiddle, mandolin (and piano) in country and bluegrass music since forever.

[HAMEGZ]

Regardless of style, think of the music going on around you as your right hand on the keyboard, and support it.

 

+1 Plus watch what your LH is doing in the bass register.

Also trading off is common with country.the guitar will take the first verse for fills,the piano(or other instrument ) second.

Just watch and LISTEN.

 

Less is More

[keyman27]

Be a rhythm guitar. I get a lot of mileage out of doing a kind of 1-2-1-2 rhythm where, in the octave where a rhythm guitar would be, I play a power chord made of the root, 5th, & octave of the root. I play just the root on 1, and the other two notes on the 2. This works for those songs that chug along, where the drummer might be playing with brushes or dowels on the snare. Throw in lots of major-key blues scale licks too. I often give up the lower octaves to the bass player, and use both hands in that rhythm guitar zone.

[Michelle ggurl]

Simple does not automatically mean easy, as you are finding out. Bobby's post is early and right on, which is why the rest of us (including me) agree. But hey, don't you have access to recordings of some of these songs? Playing along to recordings or analyzing the recordings of even a dozen or so of them can be a big help (pick songs with tempos, keyboard instrumention, and rhythmic styles that run the gamut of what you are playing).

 

6ths are huge in country music as previously noted, but there are substyles ... if it's bluesier, you will hear some of those blues licks creeping in between vocals for fills, but it's a different feel, yes? If ballad or slower song, you wouldn't play a lot over the vocalist while singing, just padding chords with some movement, probably inspired by the bass and phrasing of the vocalist ... but these are generalities. All those "dipthonged" notes and where to be blue and where to put your voicings ... if you can, listen to reference audio of these songs!

[Joe P]

Squatch,

It can also be effective to do something different from the guitar player. If he is playing chords, play arpeggios etc.. But don't get too busy, you don't have to play on every beat.

Regards,

Joe

[Bigsquatch]

Wow! Lot's of great advice! Glad to hear that hammer on type licks are still ok. My naive impression of country is almost entirely based on that! It's clear that if I know all of the chords I could easily fake my way through but to be passable let alone good I have a LOT to learn.

 

I have been listening to all of the songs on their set list thanks to Youtube and I gotta say I am gaining a better appreciation for some of them.

 

Allan I really like the 4 below the root while working the 6 voicing. When I play it alone in C it sounds like an F chord but that's a given isn't it? Am I reading you correctly when I play it as FCG and playing around between the top G and the A?

 

If you guys were going into a country gig with no prep would piano be your go to keyboard voice? I tend to use EP when flying blind but I worry I'm filling to much space by holding notes until I figure out what to do next.

 

Thank you very much for everyone who took the time to help me out! I've learned a lot over the years from you guys.

[CEB]

When in doubt piano is always my go to voice. LOL

[MoodyBluesKeys]

With the country/gospel/oldies band, I use piano voicing occasionally, but use a lot more Rhodes and Wurly voicing. A Rhodes patch that is fairly soft until struck hard, then gets barky gives the ability to go from background to foreground easily by just playing a bit harder.

 

BTW, I have printed out part of this thread, to refer to in improving my playing with the group.

 

[allan_evett]

 

Allan I really like the 4 below the root while working the 6 voicing. When I play it alone in C it sounds like an F chord but that's a given isn't it? Am I reading you correctly when I play it as FCG and playing around between the top G and the A?

 

If you guys were going into a country gig with no prep would piano be your go to keyboard voice? I tend to use EP when flying blind but I worry I'm filling to much space by holding notes until I figure out what to do next.

 

The bottom up FCG with the top note alternating to A creates a different chord than what I tried to describe, but it's very useful as a wide voicing of an F no 3rd, add9, or an expanded F triad. I've used that one a bit in instrumental composition. I don't think I conveyed the intervals correctly when describing the chord/voicing; so much easier to present it on manuscript; time for me to invest in a good, scoring program...

Haven't tried that voicing in country, but I'm guessing it would be very useful in certain contexts. I suppose if you worked the bottom two notes with the LH and expanded the right hand voicing to include the C above G and A, then worked the G as a grace note against A (or worked the Ab in as part of a Major Blues riff), you'd end up in Floyd Kramer territory.

 

The voicing I was thinking of, especially for the uptempo tunes, resembles a close voiced guitar style pattern (at least it sounds that way to me; I know about two and a half chords on a guitar.. ). The way I'd play it, based on a C chord, would be GC (from bottom to top) with A alternating with the G in different ways; lots rhythmic pattern options for that one. To add 'weight' I'll sometimes put a C on the bottom; so it ends up being an octave with a 5th in the middle that alternates with the 6th.

 

To answer your other question: On a country gig with no prep, my 'go to' keyboard voice is definitely piano. Though I have heard some players who lean on the Wurlitzer tone, and get great results. For one, re-formed country band back in the midwest (my last band before coming out west), I would now play mostly Hammond tones. Virtually all of their new original material calls for it, and about half of their cover material as well.

[Bigsquatch]

Thank you Mr. Evett for clarifying!

 

It's great to hear the opinions of those who know way more about than I do. Very helpful!

[MuzikTeechur]

I agree with others here:

 

Listen to a lot of Floyd Cramer's licks and steal them.

Listen to the originals of the tunes you'll be playing and see what the pianist does on them.

[zephonic]

Regardless of style, think of the music going on around you as your right hand on the keyboard, and support it.

 

That is profound. Is going into my quote collection.

[Dave Weiser]

 

The Floyd Cramer stuff is essential, but I also like to draw from Jerry Lee Lewis, and a slew of blues players like Leon Russell as well.

Check out anything by The Band - Richard Manuel always did great comping work, blending blues with traditional country playing.

 

I happen to play in an old-school nashville style country band up here in Boston...

Here's a modest little clip of us playing an outdoor family-friendly park gig. (Keyboard is way too loud in the mix, but that doesn't happen very often!)

http://media.townonline.com/sherborn/slideshow/clydesdale/

 

While I'm sure most players on this board are far beyond my level of playing, my humble attempts at comping might provide something you could use.

(If I could do it again, I'd play a bit less overall.)

 

Now HERE is some cool country keyboard action that you don't hear enough of....

http://www.gti.net/junebug/clavinet/sounds.html

Scroll down to the MP3s of Elvis's keyboardist, David Briggs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bigsquatch]

Here's a modest little clip of us playing an outdoor family-friendly park gig. (Keyboard is way too loud in the mix, but that doesn't happen very often!)

http://media.townonline.com/sherborn/slideshow/clydesdale/

 

Man I really really like that! You souhld always be that loud in the mix if you always play that well IMO!

[Bigsquatch]

Just got back from the 2nd night (the gig was both Friday and Saturday night.) It went well, in part thanks to the advice above.

 

I was contacted Wendesday EVENING asking if I could do the shows and e-mailed a set list that night. 36 songs total, most of which I had never even heard of. So I spent lots of time listening and making up fake book style chord charts for the songs.

 

Of course the 1st night I find out (live on stage after the songs start) that they are not playing several of the songs in the same key as recorded! Some I had charted in 2 keys to begin with since using capos is apparently not uncommon. I'm not ashamed to admit that I used my "electronic capo" a couple of times during the night. 2 songs I just sat out on because they weren't tuned up or down just one or 2 steps but 4 or 5 steps from the original key (as I found out later.)

 

Second night I arrive with my charts now all in the right key and they changed keys on a song or two on the fly! Fortunately the songs were "3 chord" songs and I was able to transpose without too much trouble.

 

Near the end of the second set my monitor started to fuzz. We started Sweet Home Alabama and a couple of verses in I had no sound in the monitor at all except for fuzzed out vocals. I played the rest of the song including a facsimilie of the piano solo without hearing myself at all! Fortunately I had brought headphones with me and I finished out that set and the 3rd set with one earbud in.

 

Overall it was a good experience. The band was happy and I received compliments from them, the sound guy and others. They treated me well and the pay was a little better than excpected.

 

Thanks again everybody.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Really glad ot hear that the gig went well. As far as different key on the second night - that's part of country (based on my experience in the country/gospel/oldies band).

 

Sometimes it happens because the lead on the song forgets to move/add/remove the capo - and it's only a LITTLE off, so the lead can still sing it. Anyhow, working with them constantly improves my ability to follow changes by ear (one of the main reasons that I play with them is that it has helped me a lot in that area).

[CEB]

That is why I do any charts or notes in a number system.

[Bigsquatch]

That is why I do any charts or notes in a number system.

 

Good point. I didn't even think of that. I will need to improve my skills before that system can work for me though.

 

I think I'll go back through my charts and mark out the numbers to get me started on being fluent with numbering.

[dongna]

I happen to play in an old-school nashville style country band up here in Boston...

Here's a modest little clip of us playing an outdoor family-friendly park gig. (Keyboard is way too loud in the mix, but that doesn't happen very often!)

http://media.townonline.com/sherborn/slideshow/clydesdale/

Anyone else notice Chick Corea sitting on the lawn?