AI is Doomed to Fail......

[Docbop]

Oh come you know it's a favorite topic for 2024.     Adam Neely's made a nice video on AI, the Turing Test, and how it relates to AL music creation.    I found it interesting and if you don't your can buy some Tiki torches and storm the castle.  

 

 

[K K]

I don't understand how anyone can be fascinated about AI for more than 5 minutes. OK, it is cool that it will help in a few domains like medical science because using brute force it can sort out a myriad of studies about a medical problem faster than humans to try to help a doctor and his/her patient.

 

But for creativity, music, art, even creating pics, it is useless, lifeless and stupid and will remain so. And given the usual dreadful aspects of human nature, it is and will be used mostly in bad ways, like how to cheat your bachelor/master degree and much worse. See X-Files Rm9sbG93ZXJz (Season 11, Episode 7), ExMachina movie, etc.

[Baldwin Funster]

I want to see how AI deals with computer viruses. Just wait until an lnsane computer virus infected robot goes on a killing spree.

Blade Runner 2025. Or worse, grows his hair long and learns to play the Hammond Organ. Don't say it can't happen. I've seen people on Instagram that I'm sure are robot hippy cycho killers. 

[Motif88]

Boring...AI sounds like a hyped up Juilliard grad with incredible technique and zero feeling.

OR

The reality of Karn Evil 9 3rd Impression (the story, not the music which remains amazing!)

[Thethirdapple]

The cats will save us…

 

 

 

PEACE

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[Docbop]

1 hour ago, Baldwin Funster said:

I want to see how AI deals with computer viruses. Just wait until an lnsane computer virus infected robot goes on a killing spree.

Blade Runner 2025. Or worse, grows his hair long and learns to play the Hammond Organ. Don't say it can't happen. I've seen people on Instagram that I'm sure are robot hippy cycho killers. 

Is Canada, or some  country that is working on legislation on stop or limit to military use only of armed robots.   This AI is really picking up speed faster than I expected it to.   I know years ago when robotics took over auto industry they were telling displaced worker that the future is either designing robotics or learning how to repair and maintain robotics.    

[JoJoB3]

The thread title alone gets a 👍 from me! 
Ai = Garbage.

[ElmerJFudd]

 

 

[Tusker]

AI is predicted to have an exponential growth in capability right? And it's just starting right? So how can we know?

 

Enjoy the journey. Play music. Have fun.

 

 

 

[nursers]

1 hour ago, Tusker said:

AI is predicted to have an exponential growth in capability right? And it's just starting right? So how can we know?

 

Enjoy the journey. Play music. Have fun.

 

 

 

This exactly - any assertions that AI will 'never' do particular things is rubbish - it's like saying in the very early 1990s that web browsers would never progress beyond Netscape  Doesn't mean I wouldn't love some strict regulation and even an improvement in what is a dicey career path for musicians even pre-AI...

[Tusker]

I have been using large language models to write some documents. They are hackneyed writers, but hard working research assistants. They don't replace me, or Google or that subscription to the online research library. 

 

I could imagine an AI composers assistant who checks to see if your new riff is original, finds similar motifs in the pantheon of songwriting, and outlines five ways you could develop that riff. You would still be the curator of your art.

 

But AI will grow ...

[DeltaJockey]

AI is Doomed to Fail......

 

 

This title brings me great joy. (in the musical sphere I mean) What an optimistic thought👍🤣

 

If true, we have a bright future to look forward to.

[Paul Woodward]

I have been watching AI closely within design and education and what I am (personally) realising is that the value of tradition, craft and skill is increasing as AI churns out sterile images, text and music. I'm sure it could crank out a banging techno track, but it will never have the heart of a human.

This value of tradition and skill is what we need to embrace and support and just let AI do all the grind which is what it does best 🙂

Nothing AI produced will have genuine value. It's that failry talentless person most of us has met who has no original ideas, but copies bits from everyone else and tries to make them their own, but never quite gets it.

[ElmerJFudd]

I’m guessing we’re looking at a further devaluing of recorded music/digital music, especially in genres where AI is already excelling.  
 

Possibly an increase in value of live human music - especially of the acoustic nature.  

[DeltaJockey]

 

7 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Possibly an increase in value of live human music - especially of the acoustic nature.

It's certainly making me feel that in the future, attraction and interest in a piece if music, (or any creative product), will be determined by the fact that it is created by a real person.

[KuruPrionz]

I see this as an incentive to proceed as planned.

I write my own songs in my own way, all of us can do this. AI will be able to do this as well but until somebody manages to jam an entire Thesaurus and actual life experiences times umpty-bajillion into the lyrics an arrangements, AI will fall short of creating genuine human expression. 

 

This doesn't mean it won't be successful in crafting popular music, it has been doing so and it will continue to grow market share. Popular music is made to sell, it is similar to being a graphic designer - there may be some emulation of Art in the process but the results will not be at the same level as what is possible if somebody expresses themselves genuinely and freely through whatever media/medium they prefer to embrace. 

 

Don't attempt to complete with AI, do something that is beyond its capacity. 

[ElmerJFudd]

It might be to one’s benefit to include Human Made or No AI in the liner notes and artwork.  
 

The industry and governments need to get their shit together quickly on new copyright and IP rules.  What’s their plan to compensate all the copyrighted digital material that was fed to the robot? 

[Tusker]

4 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I’m guessing we’re looking at a further devaluing of recorded music/digital music, especially in genres where AI is already excelling.  
 

Possibly an increase in value of live human music - especially of the acoustic nature.  

 

This seems very logical to me, and it could be that improvised (jazz) and group interactions (piano bars, choirs etc) will rise in perceived value. The human connection and the artifact are not the same.

 

It's interesting to me that we have wonderfully new kinds of wallpaper these days but the fine art market has never been stronger.

[ProfD]

AI is keeping track of all naysayers including yours truly.🤣

 

Humans have been conditioned in listening to machine-made music ever since electronic technology has been producing sequencers, drum machines, samplers, etc.  Computer usage for music production is a part of the same continuum. 

 

I still contend that gifted and talented musicians, songwriters, composers and music producers have no real reason to fear AI. In fact, those individuals will be contracted to feed the algorithm.

 

Otherwise, those who can play an instrument, write, compose and perform music will always be able to find an audience.

 

Remember...the Yamaha DX7 and hardware samplers were not the proverbial nail in the coffin of trained musicians. 

 

Right now, there are still orchestras and Broadway pit musicians and genre-based touring bands all over the planet. 

 

The Nashville music industry never succumbed to using Akai MPCs for music production. 

 

I doubt Nashville will screw up its economy relying on AI for songwriting and music production.  Same goes for Jazz and many other styles of music.

 

Again, it is generic music producers who should be most concerned about their gigs being wiped out by AI.😎

[Docbop]

After working on a music school for about a decade that the school was known for it arranging and composing programming taught my teachers who worked in TV and film and students who went on to work in TV and film and teach composing.   So been around a lot of people who work in the background as ghost writers, arrangers, orchestrator, doing media composing.   I see these are the people whose jobs will be slowly disappearing to AI music.   Being I spent most my life in L.A. and entertainment industry where it seems your neighbor and every third person you meet makes their living in the background of entertainment industry who will be losing jobs.    

[BluMunk]

Adam's point is that AI is doomed to fail... live, dynamically responsive "musicking", but only because there isn't meaningful financial incentive to develop the technology in that direction.

 

Can and will AI create music indistinguishable from human-generated music? Yes. 

 

Live performance and improvisation are safe for now, but composition as a money-making endeavor for humans is on its way out (except in niche areas).

And, even before this current AI revolution, the cultural move towards more musicians "showing their work" in videos and other mediums was already shifting the creative energies of musicians towards 'content creation', and that shift will only increase as musicians become more invested in documenting process than in perfecting output.

[Tusker]

4 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

It might be to one’s benefit to include Human Made or No AI in the liner notes and artwork.  
 

The industry and governments need to get their shit together quickly on new copyright and IP rules.  What’s their plan to compensate all the copyrighted digital material that was fed to the robot? 

 

Great point on copyright and IP law. "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should." Ian Malcolm, Jurassic Park

 

However, I feel that labels can be a clumsy tool. I admit they seem to work very well with food safety. It just feels different with art and music. Maybe I am a hippie ha ha. These two labels left a bad taste for me. Others may feel differently.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Badge made with AI 

[jazzpiano88]

Most human creation and research is made up, so AI making stuff up isn't a big deal to me.   You can ask the chat for some prose and cut and paste here:

 

https://template-selector.ieee.org/secure/templateSelector/downloadTemplate?publicationTypeId=1&titleId=227&articleId=1&fileId=526

[David Emm]

I found the idea of a "parental advisory" hilarious, because most parents, including my own, forever remain 2-3 steps behind whatever is wowing the kids. Just dropping an F-bomb was very small potaters next to some of the concepts I was drinking in. If your teens are listening to William Burroughs recite his own work, there's going to be a permanent kinked place in their thinking. Its good for them to struggle with some things to get their muscles up.

 

Likewise, we're already soaking in "Karn Evil 9" to some extent. I pity the kid who is trying to balance the existence of child molestation and The Bomb. 

 

AI won't fail. It may help to kill us off, but it'll be very profitable until then. Its already a WIN, especially if you own stock in it. 

 

[ksoper]

On 5/1/2024 at 9:52 AM, KuruPrionz said:

I see this as an incentive to proceed as planned.

 

 

Peter Gabriel says, embrace it because it's here and it's not going away. But use it as a tool to inspire. 

 

My neighbor's son Rory is getting his Masters in computer science at the University of Chicago and plunks around on the piano a bit.  His father, a professor of computer science gave him an idea for a prompt and using that Rory came up with a Country song in Suno. He tweaked it by trying the same prompt in Gemini, as it's a better lyricist, and dumping that back into Suno. The result is amazing and terrifying. I played it for my wife. When it got to the chorus she threw her hands in the air and said, "F@ck me!" 

 

This damn song could be a hit. "Could" is doing some heavy lifting here, as the output is a little wonky.  The vocal, as you'd imagine, sounds greatly autotuned, though with a convincing Southern twang. The phrases are different lengths so it doesn't flow. It rhymed a word with the same word once.  There's no intro, outro or solo section although it has a nice bridge. It could be the frame upon which a real song is built.  I made suggestions as to how it needed to be fixed.  Rory came back with better results.  I put it into my DAW and put it under the microscope. Something interesting is the fact that the "drummer's" time wasn't metronomic. It got slightly slower and faster, though not at places where a real drummer might push or pull the tempo. I had to straighten some of that out--not quantized, just positioned more normally. Similarly the vocals needed to be shifted around a bit. Suno creates phrases it can't sing. The instrumental track is a vague sounding mess that only slightly resembles a mix of guitars, fiddle and banjo. I made some cuts and did some rearranging of phrases and sections.  It's sounding better. The lyrics still need fixing but it's sounding like something I might present to my guitar player buddy as a demo to be recorded by live players and sung by a real vocalist.  Once that's done this damn song could be a hit. Seriously.   

 

In the mean time, until these programs can pass Adam Neely's musical Turing test, proceed as planned.  

 

 

[TommyRude]

Kid:  “Mom, what’s AI?"

Mom:  "AI’s your daddy honey"

[KuruPrionz]

2 hours ago, ksoper said:

 

Peter Gabriel says, embrace it because it's here and it's not going away. But use it as a tool to inspire. 

 

My neighbor's son Rory is getting his Masters in computer science at the University of Chicago and plunks around on the piano a bit.  His father, a professor of computer science gave him an idea for a prompt and using that Rory came up with a Country song in Suno. He tweaked it by trying the same prompt in Gemini, as it's a better lyricist, and dumping that back into Suno. The result is amazing and terrifying. I played it for my wife. When it got to the chorus she threw her hands in the air and said, "F@ck me!" 

 

This damn song could be a hit. "Could" is doing some heavy lifting here, as the output is a little wonky.  The vocal, as you'd imagine, sounds greatly autotuned, though with a convincing Southern twang. The phrases are different lengths so it doesn't flow. It rhymed a word with the same word once.  There's no intro, outro or solo section although it has a nice bridge. It could be the frame upon which a real song is built.  I made suggestions as to how it needed to be fixed.  Rory came back with better results.  I put it into my DAW and put it under the microscope. Something interesting is the fact that the "drummer's" time wasn't metronomic. It got slightly slower and faster, though not at places where a real drummer might push or pull the tempo. I had to straighten some of that out--not quantized, just positioned more normally. Similarly the vocals needed to be shifted around a bit. Suno creates phrases it can't sing. The instrumental track is a vague sounding mess that only slightly resembles a mix of guitars, fiddle and banjo. I made some cuts and did some rearranging of phrases and sections.  It's sounding better. The lyrics still need fixing but it's sounding like something I might present to my guitar player buddy as a demo to be recorded by live players and sung by a real vocalist.  Once that's done this damn song could be a hit. Seriously.   

 

In the mean time, until these programs can pass Adam Neely's musical Turing test, proceed as planned.  

 

 

A good song is a good song! I think your idea to humanize it is the correct way forward. There is a certain "humanity" to country music and violating that will not hit the mark.

[Tusker]

11 hours ago, ksoper said:

In the mean time, until these programs can pass Adam Neely's musical Turing test, proceed as planned.  

At the risk of derailing this thread, may I please mention that your album Miutronics is a complete inspiration to me? It's a testament to the human imagination. I am blown away!
 

Congratulations! 🎈 

[Docbop]

I like the Diggin the Great YouTube and Patreon a lot and he's made a video on AI that I think bring up more musician focus issues.     I've put the link below, but have it starting about the 8:15 point to jump over all the AI points that have  been discussed here all ready.