Official NFL thread 2023-2024

[Geoff Grace]

Vikings Ranked First, Commanders Last by NFL Players in New ‘Report Card’

Best,

Geoff

[GovernorSilver]

11 minutes ago, Geoff Grace said:

Vikings Ranked First, Commanders Last by NFL Players in New ‘Report Card’

Best,

Geoff

 

Heh, Chargers got their share of Fs as well.   Not a surprise, as Dean Spanos is not the greatest of owners, and the organization reflects his leadership (or lack thereof)

 

I saw some hue and cry over the Chiefs' scores but they don't have any Fs.

 

 

[bill5]

"F minus?" When did that become a thing? 

[GovernorSilver]

If A+ is allowed, then F- is also allowed

 

As, erm, colorful as Jerrah Jones is, the Bums sure scored a lot of As

[bill5]

I guess it's an NFL thing. Anyway, surprised that the Bengals and Chiefs did pretty poorly too. 

[GovernorSilver]

Mike McCarthy took some shots at ex-OC Kellen Moore, claiming Moore cared more about lighting up the scoreboard than running the ball.

 

Moore's run-pass balance was way better than Joe Lombardi's at least.

[ProfD]

I'd imagine the Team Report Card could be of benefit to some free agents when deciding on a new team. 

 

But, most of them will call their friends and former teammates to gauge whether the team/organization is any good. 

 

Then, when it comes down to "show me the money", the team can be sorry as h8ll. Somebody's going to suit up. 😁😎

[GovernorSilver]

Carr to the Saints.  4 year deal

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/derek-carr-free-agency-saints-signing-four-time-pro-bowl-qb-to-four-year-deal-per-report/

[MikeT156]

The Saints better have an offensive live to protect him. Carr can't out run the rush. Of course I am only going by the game he had against the Steelers. If even one Defensive player got through their line, Carr was sacked. Carr also threw a lot of picks too. I don't see the value in making a 4 year deal with Carr. He'll probably be out of the NFL long before then.

[bill5]

It's a roll of the dice, similar to what the Colts and Redskins did with Wentz and the Lions did with Goff.  And similar to them, he's hard to figure out, looking great at times, bad at others. I wouldn't be wowed if I was a Saints fan, but their options are limited. 

[GovernorSilver]

Saints didn't have a 1st round pick at all for 2023, until they traded Sean Payton to Denver for Denver's 1st round pick.  Unfortunately, Denver's pick is #29.   That is a terrible spot to be in if you want to draft a QB.   

 

 

When you're down at #29 in the 1st round, you're not going to be able draft Bryce Young or CJ Stroud.  Best you can do is sign the best FA QB you can get, and hope some overlooked talent drops to you.

 

The reason is the Saints traded with the Eagles in 2022 for 2 1st round picks.   One of those 2022 first round picks was an offensive tackle.   The other was a WR.  

 

So presumably the Saints already did some work on the OL.  Assuming this OT Trever Panning isn't a total bust of course.

[MikeT156]

You gentlemen have some good points. There are not a lot of Franchise QB in the league so you have to take what's available.

[ProfD]

Last year, the 49ers proved that it isn't necessary to have a franchise QB.  Build a solid team around a competent QB and it's possible to win games.  An jury at the worst time derailed their run to the Super Bowl.

 

Otherwise, QB Derek Carr should definitely be an upgrade to the Saints QB room.  Let's see if the scenery change and building chemistry with his new team will enable him to realize his full potential.

 

Unless they're content to be back-ups to QB Carr, I guess that leaves QBs Jameis Winston and Andy "Red Rifle" Dalton looking for another team to compete for a starting job. 😎

[Geoff Grace]

They’re expected to release Jameis Winston to free up cap space. 

As long as Carr plays at his normal level, I like the Saints’ odds to win their division, considering how well their defense played last year and the lack of competition.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

 

 

P.S. I've heard that in New Orleans, they’re calling this signing “Carrdi Gras.”

[MikeT156]

My beef with Carr is he has no legs. Take a look at the Eagles QB and the Chiefs QB in the Super Bowl. They had enough legs to beat the rush and still make plays. He is probably an upgrade to what they have now, but their OL will have to keep the rush away from him or we may see more of the same.

[bill5]

6 hours ago, ProfD said:

Last year, the 49ers proved that it isn't necessary to have a franchise QB.  Build a solid team around a competent QB and it's possible to win games.

Yes but the odds of winning a SB with merely a competent/"pretty good" QB are slim, even when the rest of the team is solid. Look back as far as you like in SB history...you'll see a few winners like that, but only a few. 

 

As for Winston and Dalton, Dalton is already just a backup and will likely retire within the next year or two tops, and Winston is likely just backup material now too, although some desperate team might make a Wentz-like move and offer a modest draft pick for what will probably a be modest salary and therefore modest risk. 

[GovernorSilver]

3 hours ago, MikeT156 said:

My beef with Carr is he has no legs. Take a look at the Eagles QB and the Chiefs QB in the Super Bowl. They had enough legs to beat the rush and still make plays. He is probably an upgrade to what they have now, but their OL will have to keep the rush away from him or we may see more of the same.

 

The Saints already have a  wildcat QB for designed QB runs - Taysom Hill.    Unlike the usual wildcat QB, who is typically an RB, Hill is also a competent passer, with a career rating in the 88s and completion percentage in the mid 60s.

 

But the Saints knew that they needed to get better in the pure passing game - a QB who can throw the deep ball with legit accuracy.   As already mentioned several times, their options for upgrading QB position - as a pure passer - are extremely limited for 2023.

 

Every team has fans that want their team to sign the next Patrick Mahomes for beer money, but such a free agent only exists in their dreams.  Let's saythe Saint should do nothing at all to improve the QB position in 2023, just because they can't sign a Patrick Mahomes clone right now.   That would signal to most fans and the players that the front office does not care about winning.   Heck my cousin who just moved from Chicago is convinced the Bears don't care about winning - look how long they took to make an effort get a franchise QB.   It's funny how I end up being the one defending Justin Fields to him and our mutual buddy.   They're like "naw, Jay Cutler is still the best Bears QB since George Blanda.. and that's a problem!"

[bill5]

And you don't need a legit running QB to succeed, just enough to move around and scramble a bit when needed. Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc many (most) great QBs weren't much for the tuck n run thing. 

[ProfD]

Regardless of whether a QB is a pure pocket passer or runner or hybrid, they have to 1) make fast decisions and 2) be surrounded by a solid supporting cast. 

 

The QB isn't going to win most games by himself. The Bills learned that lesson last season. They didn't give their franchise QB a legit running game nor a #2 WR threat. 

 

A healthy QB Jamels Winston could still have enough tread left on his tires to compete for a starting job with the Jets or Panthers. 😁😎

[MikeT156]

10 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

 

The Saints already have a  wildcat QB for designed QB runs - Taysom Hill.    Unlike the usual wildcat QB, who is typically an RB, Hill is also a competent passer, with a career rating in the 88s and completion percentage in the mid 60s.

 

But the Saints knew that they needed to get better in the pure passing game - a QB who can throw the deep ball with legit accuracy.   As already mentioned several times, their options for upgrading QB position - as a pure passer - are extremely limited for 2023.

 

Every team has fans that want their team to sign the next Patrick Mahomes for beer money, but such a free agent only exists in their dreams.  Let's saythe Saint should do nothing at all to improve the QB position in 2023, just because they can't sign a Patrick Mahomes clone right now.   That would signal to most fans and the players that the front office does not care about winning.   Heck my cousin who just moved from Chicago is convinced the Bears don't care about winning - look how long they took to make an effort get a franchise QB.   It's funny how I end up being the one defending Justin Fields to him and our mutual buddy.   They're like "naw, Jay Cutler is still the best Bears QB since George Blanda.. and that's a problem!"

I'm not suggesting that the Saints need a running QB. What I have Posted is that Carr cannot out run the rush from Defensive players and getting sacked. He has NO LEGS.

 

Take a look at the Eagles QB and the Chief's QB in the SB. They are able to avoid the rush (most of the time) and make a play before being tackled. THAT is what I am talking about, NOT a running QB. Get it?

[ProfD]

9 hours ago, MikeT156 said:

Carr cannot out run the rush from Defensive players and getting sacked. He has NO LEGS.

The Saints usually have a very good offensive line. 

 

QB Carr should be fine if he can get rid of the ball quickly or before the protection breaks down. 

 

When he's on the field, RB Alvin Kamara is good at keeping defensive players honest which buys the QB another second or two.

 

 The Saints have a potential playmaker in WR Chris Olave. Hard to know whether or not WR Michael Thomas will return to pro bowl form.  They need better play from the TE position.  

 

OC Pete Carmichael has to scheme up an offense that takes maximum advantage of the skillset on the players on the field.😎

[Bill H.]

As a Seahawks fan, I'm very satisfied with their new contract with Geno Smith: $105 million for three years, with $25 million per year guaranteed and the rest incentives. So was last year a fluke, or is he really that good? 

 

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2023/3/7/23628214/nfl-seahawks-geno-smith-contract-drew-lock-anthony-richardson-draft

[wineandkeyz]

Ravens use non-exclusive franchise tag on Lamar Jackson

 

Please, Redskins... er, I mean Commanders, DO NOT offer him a deal.

[ProfD]

As the NFL turns, more deals are getting done...

 

QB Daniel Jones gets a  4 year/$160 deal with another $35M in incentives. $82M guarantee for 2 years. 

 

RB Saquon Barkley gets the franchise tag that will pay him $10M for the 2023 season. 

 

7 minutes ago, wineandkeyz said:

Ravens use non-exclusive franchise tag on Lamar Jackson

 

Please, Redskins... er, I mean Commanders, DO NOT offer him a deal.

No worries there. 

 

I have a suspicion that team owners have huddled up and decided not to pursue QB Lamar Jackson insuring that he doesn't get $50M per season.😎

 

 

[bill5]

  

5 hours ago, Bill H. said:

As a Seahawks fan, I'm very satisfied with their new contract with Geno Smith: $105 million for three years, with $25 million per year guaranteed and the rest incentives. So was last year a fluke, or is he really that good? 

 

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2023/3/7/23628214/nfl-seahawks-geno-smith-contract-drew-lock-anthony-richardson-draft

That's why I wouldn't have given him this contract. I don't trust that he's really that good. 

 

  

3 hours ago, wineandkeyz said:

Ravens use non-exclusive franchise tag on Lamar Jackson

 

Please, Redskins... er, I mean Commanders, DO NOT offer him a deal.

I will be shocked if anyone offers him a deal. Not only is he costly money-wise, but the team would give up two #1s. No way is he worth that. 

 

 

 

 

 

[wineandkeyz]

11 hours ago, bill5 said:

I will be shocked if anyone offers him a deal. Not only is he costly money-wise, but the team would give up two #1s. No way is he worth that.

 

We'll see. It depends on how stuck Jackson is on getting a fully guaranteed contract. If a QB-needy team has multiple #1s and some cap space, they might at least test the waters.

[MAJUSCULE]

“The blockbuster deal sends from Denver to Seattle two first-round picks, No. 9 overall this year and a 2023 first-rounder; two second-round picks, No. 40 overall pick this year and a 2023 second-rounder, this year's fifth-round pick, tight end Noah Fant, quarterback Drew Lock and defensive end Shelby Harris.”

 

The return for Russell Wilson, almost exactly a year ago, who then signed a big money deal shortly thereafter… every situation is different, but I wouldn’t bet against someone spending two firsts.

 

Sidenote, gonna annoy Bill and Gov with this one again after talking their ears off in the CFB thread, but how about my guy Anthony Richardson at the combine? Record-setting performance on the field and, from all accounts, knocked the interview portion out of the park as well. I mean, the dude has comparable results to people like Derrick Henry and Khalil Mack while making 70-yard bombs look effortless. Needs more reps and accuracy training, but anyone believe the #1 hype? I seriously doubt he gets out of the top ten, at the very least.

[Bill H.]

17 hours ago, bill5 said:

  

That's why I wouldn't have given him this contract. I don't trust that he's really that good. 

Well if Geno's not, the Seahawks are only out $25 million a year. In today's market, that's not bad. I couldn't find any direct equivalent in OTC but that's in the same range as Ryan Tannehill (who's getting paid a little more), Baker Mayfield and Jameis Winston (a little less). 

 

Most pundits are saying Geno is betting on himself, and gave the Seahawks a home town discount in exchange for rescuing his career. 

[GovernorSilver]

5 hours ago, MAJUSCULE said:

 

Sidenote, gonna annoy Bill and Gov with this one again after talking their ears off in the CFB thread, but how about my guy Anthony Richardson at the combine? Record-setting performance on the field and, from all accounts, knocked the interview portion out of the park as well. I mean, the dude has comparable results to people like Derrick Henry and Khalil Mack while making 70-yard bombs look effortless. Needs more reps and accuracy training, but anyone believe the #1 hype? I seriously doubt he gets out of the top ten, at the very least.

 

😁

 

Not all of us are triggered so easily.

 

Erik my friend, I have nothing against your guy AR.  If he blows up on the NFL as the new hotness, he would be yet another entertaining player to watch.

 

I prefer to root for people to succeed as players than root for them to fall on their face.

[ProfD]

I doubt that HC Pete Carroll would have endorsed Seattle paying QB Geno Smith if he didn't believe in him on some level.

 

As I've mentioned, most of today's players didn't create the average salary of an NFL QB. They're just beneficiaries. 

 

NFL teams could easily reign in the average salary by drafting QBs every 4 years. Same goes for every other position. 😎