Anything new from Nord?

[octa]

6 minutes ago, 16251 said:

"Nord releasing a single pedal damper would be cool."  It's 2022, right?  <Holding my sarcastic tongue is difficult on this one padawon.>

heh, yea i guess those have been around about 40 years now. At least make it possible to use the Yamaha FC3A or similar, so I can stop lugging around the triple pedal. 

[CyberGene]

Is the Nord triple pedal unit using optical sensors like in the Yamaha and Kawai digital pianos or is it the same old Fatar potentiometer based pedal that fails after a while?

[DJkeys]

On 10/29/2022 at 1:37 PM, Delaware Dave said:

Stage 3 73 key: sweetwater, $4100 and one year warranty.  Thomanns, $3000 + 20%(?) VAT = $3600 and a 3 year warranty.  Why a $500 discrepancy?  I've ordered from Thomanns in the past and it was delivered in two business days. Although you would have to ship it back to Thomanns, they do offer service repair as well.  Why would i not buy it from them and save $500?

Sweetwater offers 2 year warranty on Nord Stage 73-

 

-dj

[octa]

4 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

Is the Nord triple pedal unit using optical sensors like in the Yamaha and Kawai digital pianos or is it the same old Fatar potentiometer based pedal that fails after a while?

It's the exact same (Chinese made?) triple pedal used by Kawai VPC1, but wired differently and much more expensive. A minute ago I tried Yamaha's FC3A with NP5 (while trying the different pedal options, Triple/Closed/Open) and it only does some sort of Sostenuto. On/off sustain pedals work with Nord usually but only triple pedal accesses the "half pedaling" etc. -- "Same old Fatar potentiometer" technology i guess?

[CyberGene]

9 minutes ago, octa said:

"Same old Fatar potentiometer" technology i guess?

Yep! I think someone on PW has confirmed those cr*ppy Kawai VPC1 triple-pedal units are made by Fatar but I might be wrong. In any case, the reason is they are potentiometer based and they eventually fail. On the other hand, I used a single half-pedal that came with Kawai ES7 for my DIY Cybrid project and it's an optical sensor unit that is very reliable since no moving part is used for producing/dividing voltage.

[Iconoclast]

Any improvements to the NS need to start with the maxim, "without ruining it's incredible ease of use and on the fly programmability...."

That being said, I'd love to see:
More power and flexibility in the effects and effect routing (without ruining it's incredible ease of use etc...")

More robust synth section:

  -ADSR envelopes
  -Poly Portmento

  -A Slop control like Sequential has.

I have mixed feelings about the split points. I really love the lights! But they do seem to be inconveniently placed...no matter where you put them.  Mainstage has smart split points that can somehow figure out where your hands are and it flex's the split point. I don't know if that's a proprietary thing, but it's brilliant, and would probably serve well on a Nord.  Failing that...maybe just a lot more lights/splits?  Conflicted.

[stoken6]

I'd be happy if they allowed a sample to be loaded into a piano slot on the Stage. Bonus points for new samples (strings, brass, etc.) which includ velocity switching, loadable into the piano slots. It's rare that I need two pianos in a single patch, but strings, brass and a lead synth simultaneously - that comes up quite a lot on disco material. Try covering Thriller on a Stage..

 

Other wishes: ability to modulate the pitch of a synth patch from an envelope and/or morph source. The ability to use velocity and key position (tracking) as a morph source. Switch leslie sim slow/fast using aftertouch (don't @ me). USB2 or better transfer speeds to/from computer (I think it's using USB1 today). Stage Manager software on iPad. 

 

But what do I know.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Stokely]

The 2nd worst part of the price hikes is that (maybe) it's less motivation for Roland, Yamaha and others to make something that competes with the Stage (assuming like me you want both a full synth and good organ to go with everything else in one keyboard).  

Anyway, I was a Nord customer and only became a non-customer because I sold the Electro to fund a stage...but didn't pull the trigger before the price hikes!  Big regret there.

I mixed sound for my buddy's band, he used a NS3 for left-hand bass, organ (midied from another keyboard) and various other sounds.   Sounded fantastic, and it hurt  

[bill bosco]

i've figured for the last few years that a  new double manual Nord organ would be the next big thing . i'm still expecting one that will be pretty 

mind blowing 

[nadroj]

1 minute ago, bill bosco said:

i've figured for the last few years that a  new double manual Nord organ would be the next big thing . i'm still expecting one that will be pretty 

mind blowing 

I’ve thought this too. They were arguably industry leaders in the clonewheel game a decade ago, but the world has caught up and now they’re lagging. 
 

Saying that, as I said above there are touring pros who are still happy making do with their “outdated” organ, so who knows. 
 

I can’t see them making a CD3, with only organ. Unless they utterly knock it out of the park it will have to have other features to compete with the competition at the expected price tag. More akin to a dual manual Electro 7. But who the heck knows.
 

 

[DJkeys]

3 minutes ago, bill bosco said:

i've figured for the last few years that a  new double manual Nord organ would be the next big thing . i'm still expecting one that will be pretty 

mind blowing 

I honestly don't think Nord will release another two manual organ-

 

-dj

[Mr -G-]

19 hours ago, octa said:

It's the exact same (Chinese made?) triple pedal used by Kawai VPC1, but wired differently and much more expensive. A minute ago I tried Yamaha's FC3A with NP5 (while trying the different pedal options, Triple/Closed/Open) and it only does some sort of Sostenuto. On/off sustain pedals work with Nord usually but only triple pedal accesses the "half pedaling" etc. -- "Same old Fatar potentiometer" technology i guess?

I think it is made by Fatar (with a Nord logo) but it is not potentiometer based. The right pedal has 2 double contact sensors, the other two pedals have one double contact each.

See it dismantled in all its glory here: https://www.norduserforum.com/nord-stage-forum-f3/inside-triple-pedal-modification-t1883.html

[analogika]

16 hours ago, stoken6 said:

USB2 or better transfer speeds to/from computer (I think it's using USB1 today).

Could it be that the speed is not a USB limitation, but one of the NOR Flash used, which is extremely slow to write to, but which can be read at near-RAM speeds? 
 

I’ve never verified this — an easy tell would be if backing up to a computer were substantially faster than restoring from it. 

[CyberGene]

4 hours ago, Mr -G- said:

I think it is made by Fatar (with a Nord logo) but it is not potentiometer based. The right pedal has 2 double contact sensors, the other two pedals have one double contact each.

See it dismantled in all its glory here: https://www.norduserforum.com/nord-stage-forum-f3/inside-triple-pedal-modification-t1883.html

Hm, so there are 5 fixed pedal position steps and it’s not continuous. Doesn’t sound like a very good solution but hopefully it’s at least more reliable than the potentiometer ones. I wonder why they keep using these crappy Fatar sourced keybeds and pedals though. 

[Mr -G-]

6 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Hm, so there are 5 fixed pedal position steps and it’s not continuous. Doesn’t sound like a very good solution but hopefully it’s at least more reliable than the potentiometer ones. I wonder why they keep using these crappy Fatar sourced keybeds and pedals though. 

Hi, it is 6 switches. Here is a diagram: https://www.norduserforum.com/accessories-and-amplification-f8/inside-triple-pedal-modification-t1883-20.html#p41617

The mechanism is the same as the keys: the velocity data is generated by the time difference between the two contacts closing.

[CyberGene]

3 minutes ago, Mr -G- said:

the velocity data is generated by the time difference between the two contacts closing.

I guess the pedal needs to only send position, in this case the 6 predefined steps. Velocity is a derivative of position in respect to time, so you can calculate it internally. FOr half-pedaling it's important to have position and not velocity since half-pedaling can be triggered through a static pedal position that is not moving, so I believe the scanning logic sends the raw switch position and the velocity is just part of the piano engine to produce fancy effects like different pedal "loom" noises.

[Mr -G-]

9 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I guess the pedal needs to only send position, in this case the 6 predefined steps. Velocity is a derivative of position in respect to time, so you can calculate it internally. FOr half-pedaling it's important to have position and not velocity since half-pedaling can be triggered through a static pedal position that is not moving, so I believe the scanning logic sends the raw switch position and the velocity is just part of the piano engine to produce fancy effects like different pedal "loom" noises.

Yes, I suppose so. I believe the sustain pedal has 2 sets of double sensor exactly for the half-pedaling function. The pedal noise is velocity sensitive as far as I know (but I do not own a triple pedal, so I cannot confirm it).

[ChazKeys]

Just thinking out loud.... Nord could introduce a new product without investing in any additional R&D and using existing hardware. 

 

The product I'm referring to is the "Stage Electro".  This is a rebadged Stage but with just Slot A. They could even remove the Ext MIDI section so it would be closer to an Electro but it would have a proper synth engine.  It would sell for a little more than the Electro 6. And Nord could offer an upgrade to 'unlock' Slot B. 

 

Now this doesn't solve the shortage of chips and components so an alternative would be to redesign the Stage PCB to just offer Slot A. Not sure how much that would reduce the component count though. The heavy hitters who need both Slots can just make do with a Stage 4  with double the memory? 

 

I'll get back my coat.....

[John Salazar]

44 minutes ago, ChazKeys said:

Just thinking out loud.... Nord could introduce a new product without investing in any additional R&D and using existing hardware. 

 

The product I'm referring to is the "Stage Electro".  This is a rebadged Stage but with just Slot A. They could even remove the Ext MIDI section so it would be closer to an Electro but it would have a proper synth engine.  It would sell for a little more than the Electro 6. And Nord could offer an upgrade to 'unlock' Slot B. 

 

Now this doesn't solve the shortage of chips and components so an alternative would be to redesign the Stage PCB to just offer Slot A. Not sure how much that would reduce the component count though. The heavy hitters who need both Slots can just make do with a Stage 4  with double the memory? 

 

I'll get back my coat.....

Nord can shut up and take my money if they make this and include aftertouch with it.

[konaboy]

i've said it before and i'll say it again, what nord need to do on all their sample instruments is slap in a 100GB ssd and load it at the factory with their xl sample libraries.

 

we've moved on from the 1990s method of downloading samples from the website and using a manager application to transfer at snail speeds onto a poxy internal 1gb flash memory.  and having to compromise on the number of sounds vs sample quality.

[Legatoboy]

On 10/29/2022 at 11:36 AM, ElmerJFudd said:

Wake me up when they’ve sourced new actions, put a synth engine in the electro or knocked 33% off their US retail prices. 

33% sounds about right to me, I guess they are just piling those Swedish meatballs ($) into their bank accounts .... on everyone's dime. 

[Mr -G-]

I think that a full Wave 2 (4 slot synth) + 1 slot piano + 1 slot organ is what they should be offering.

[Polkahero]

Kind of an aside, but what pianos does Nord sample for their libraries?  Any idea what piano the White Grand actually is?

[Stokely]

Their library methods may be dated, but I'll give them credit for actually having a pretty extensive library that allows users to have a choice.

Who else has even tried it?  Korg with their promises for the Grandstage, Yamaha with firmware updates where they get to choose?  I guess Hammond has some semblance of one for the SK line (?)

Granted with a big hard drive, no choice needed all the sounds would be there, that's true!

Reduce prices and I'll be a customer with no new functionality.  That's the frustration for me.  It's literally perfect for my use case and I could supplement with any 2nd board I wanted, or not bother for minor gigs and practices.  The Stage is just way, way too expensive.  I was hoping my Forte would fit the bill but I haven't warmed up to it.

[Docbop]

58 minutes ago, Polkahero said:

Kind of an aside, but what pianos does Nord sample for their libraries?  Any idea what piano the White Grand actually is?

There is a spreadsheet floating around the internet with a list of the instruments used.    The White Piano is listed as a Steinway B-211

[stoken6]

There is an opportunity for Nord to do the "not a piano" thing - a synth + organ combination, to sit on top of a stage piano (like the Nord Grand). The Nord Wave 2 teased us with a waterfall keyboard, but no built-in organ model.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[analogika]

On 11/2/2022 at 9:53 AM, konaboy said:

i've said it before and i'll say it again, what nord need to do on all their sample instruments is slap in a 100GB ssd and load it at the factory with their xl sample libraries.

 

we've moved on from the 1990s method of downloading samples from the website and using a manager application to transfer at snail speeds onto a poxy internal 1gb flash memory.  and having to compromise on the number of sounds vs sample quality.

 

That would mean a complete re-engineering of the entire architecture to a Kronos-like system where the OS runs on a CPU and loads samples from storage into RAM when a patch is selected. 

The way it works now is that the NOR Flash storage is fast enough that samples do not need to be loaded, but are just read live from storage — everything is always instantly available. 

The downside is that NOR Flash is about 100€ per Gigabyte — FOR PARTS. viz: https://eu.mouser.com/c/semiconductors/memory-ics/nor-flash/?m=Infineon&memory size=2 Gbit&mounting style=SMD%2FSMT&package %2F case=FBGA-64

Doing 100 GB of that would be somewhere around 10,000€ just in chips per machine. Probably less when purchased directly from the manufacturer, of course, but that's the ballpark for what you're asking. 

[allan_evett]

39 minutes ago, analogika said:

 

That would mean a complete re-engineering of the entire architecture to a Kronos-like system where the OS runs on a CPU and loads samples from storage into RAM when a patch is selected. 

The way it works now is that the NOR Flash storage is fast enough that samples do not need to be loaded, but are just read live from storage — everything is always instantly available. 

The downside is that NOR Flash is about 100€ per Gigabyte — FOR PARTS. viz: https://eu.mouser.com/c/semiconductors/memory-ics/nor-flash/?m=Infineon&memory size=2 Gbit&mounting style=SMD%2FSMT&package %2F case=FBGA-64

Doing 100 GB of that would be somewhere around 10,000€ just in chips per machine. Probably less when purchased directly from the manufacturer, of course, but that's the ballpark for what you're asking. 

 

If Nord decided to put out an instrument with greatly expanded storage, they'd likely release a new line with a re-engineered system - likely similar to what was described above.  Doesn't seem practical to backfit the entire Stage lineup, and a 100GB NOR Flash Stage instrument would have a stunning price .

But if a new Stage similar to the existing model were to be released, I wouldn't be surprised, nor disappointed.  It might have a few more practical attributes  - like the interface on the Wave 2, but that's not going to cause me to sell my Stage 3 and order a new Stage __. 

 

The Stage series instruments aren't designed to be extensive 8/16 patch multi-timbral keyboards with gargantuan memory.  So if your rig needs require that in a single main keyboard it's likely best to look elsewhere (Kurz PC4, Roland Fantom O, Korg Nautilus, Yamaha MODX, etc.), or use a Nord keyboard in a combination rig. 

 

 

[DJkeys]

20 hours ago, Mr -G- said:

I think that a full Wave 2 (4 slot synth) + 1 slot piano + 1 slot organ is what they should be offering.

I always thought that a modular Stage would be great.  Two panels, but instead of Piano, Organ Synth, they could have swappable boards so the user could define what what they wanted based on their need.  I never, ever need more than one piano or organ, so the configuration you mention would be my choice, one piano, one organ, 4 synth. That is why I have the Stage 3 and the Wave 2. Of course, this would require major hardware changes.  

 

-dj

[Nathanael_I]

Someone mentioned a Stage with the Kawaii action. That would be very interesting!  I’d be surprised though. I don’t like the Fatar actions they favor. My Nord Grand, though?  Love the Kawaii action.