Yamaha CK61 and CK88

[CyberGene]

On the Vox there’s no text display where you can see names of sounds, settings, etc. I’m not good with numeric memory and I’d hate it to have to scroll through patches by numbers to find what I want.

 

Which can further be aggravated by the fact it doesn’t have many effects and if I recall correctly some patches come with prerecorded effects built into it, maybe electric piano tremolo was one of them. So, you can’t just have tremolo on every electric piano patch. You’re limited with those that have it burnt in. And I’m not even sure if that tremolo is configurable?

[niacin]

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

Which can further be aggravated by the fact it doesn’t have many effects and if I recall correctly some patches come with prerecorded effects built into it, maybe electric piano tremolo was one of them. So, you can’t just have tremolo on every electric piano patch. You’re limited with those that have it burnt in. And I’m not even sure if that tremolo is configurable?

 

Tremolo is kind of baked in to some of the Wurlys as auto-pan is to some of the Rhodes, but you can turn it off with the pitch lever, and you can set the tempo with the tap tempo button otherwise used for delay.

 

[D. Gauss]

I just bought a 2nd hand CK61 for crazy cheap, anybody know of a good fitting, inexpensive case/bag?  (other than the way overpriced Yammy one)

[AnotherScott]

12 hours ago, CyberGene said:

On the Vox there’s no text display where you can see names of sounds, settings, etc. I’m not good with numeric memory and I’d hate it to have to scroll through patches by numbers to find what I want.

Yes, that's why I posted earlier, "If I'd kept the Vox, I think I'd have set up an iPhone/iPad for patch selection." But while that could give you much better access to your 64 saved sounds (i.e. somewhat similar to the touchscreen patch selection provided by the pages of a MODX/Montage's "Live Set" or Fantom's "Scene" view or Kronos/Nautilus "Set List" mode), that's only a partial solution. When navigating the sounds within the 15 individual sound sections, you are still stuck with the 1 or 2 character numeric displays to select the sound for that section... those cannot be addressed over MIDI so you can't even use an iPad to facilitate that. I think I would tape a cheat sheet to the front panel (there's plenty of room). 

Off-hand, my Vox wish list would be:

* a display that gives you the names of things (I think the only thing I'm mentioning here that would require additional control surface hardware)

* the ability to directly select the organ percussion and c/v settings you want (e.g. by using the organ variation buttons while holding the percussion or chorus buttons)

* the ability to shift the octave of the left-hand split sound (e.g. use the octave buttons while holding down the split key)

* the ability to turn off effects for the left-hand split sound, even if it were a global setting (as it is, it shares the effect of the main sound)

* the ability to pan/assign split sounds to mono left and right (the CK doesn't do that one either... and I understand this can be complicated by the use of stereo effects)

* MIDI program change for the individual section sounds (the CK doesn't do that either)

* the ability to save at least the status of the valve drive and dynamics buttons as part of a scene (even better if it could save the knob values as well)

* the ability to save EQ in a scene (the CK lets you decide this on a patch-by-patch basis, but even a global setting would be helpful)

* seamless sound switching for the sounds within a saved sound combination, not just between the sound combinations (CK has the same issue, but is also not as seamless between sound combinations either)

* some kind of basic external MIDI zone function (e.g. being able to switch one of its sections from internal to external)

* and as I kind of mentioned earlier, I would I have liked some empty organ preset slots into which I could load my favorite Kronos CX3 sounds. I'm assuming that, at least theoretically,  the CX3 engine in the Vox could understand all the parameters of a Kronos CX3 program, even though the Vox does not, itself, provide ways to access all those same parameters. Or maybe even better, a computer editor for creating CX3 programs with all those other "hidden" CX3 parameters you can't access right from the Vox. The Vox would work better for me as a clonewheel if I could at least get its CX3 organ sounding as good as some of my favorite CX3 patches on the Kronos.

 

Of course, I have a wish list for the CK as well, but the CK is already generally way more capable overall than the Vox. It is a shame that there are as many interface and operational deficiencies as there are in the Vox. It looks like it had the potential to be quite a bit better with just a few adjustments. Getting back to the comparison at hand, I guess I'd say that the CK61 has a first-rate operational interface with largely average sounds, while the Vox has a second-rate operational interface but largely better sounds and better action. Not that the CK doesn't have some strong sounds in it, but overall, I think at least once you get past some of the pianos/EPs, most of the CK sounds are "lower end" Yamaha sounds rather than Montage-calibre ones, whereas the Vox sounds were from their top-of-line board (Kronos), and I think you can tell. Related, the non-organ CK sounds are all sample-based, whereas Vox has its separate Kronos engines, i.e. a real VA engine for its synth sounds, and the modeling in the EPs.

 

12 hours ago, CyberGene said:

if I recall correctly some patches come with prerecorded effects built into it, maybe electric piano tremolo was one of them. So, you can’t just have tremolo on every electric piano patch. You’re limited with those that have it burnt in. And I’m not even sure if that tremolo is configurable?

 

Based on the manual, every EP allow you to turn Tremolo on or off using the pitch bend lever. So I think the only difference between, for example, the "Reed EP 200A" and "Reed EP 200A Tremolo" patches is whether or not the tremolo is on by default when you invoke the sound.

 

But while you're right that some patches have effects baked in, I don't think any of them are "pre-recorded", I think they are using a "hidden" effect generator. I don't have one here to double-check, but for example if the patch "Reed EP 200A Phaser" was created with a "recorded" phaser effect, then each note you play would have its own phase effect, the effect would not be synchronized among all the notes you play, which would not give you what people would typically consider the sound of an EP through a phaser. (Even putting aside for the moment that the EP sound itself is not strictly sampled/recorded, but includes modeling.) This baked in phaser is not configurable though.

 

The reason the baked-in approach is useful is that it allows you to invoke a common EP phaser sound without using the board's main effects section, leaving that section free to supply an additional effect instead of having to tie it up with the phaser. This is a way that the Vox can have more effects than it may at first appear.  A single "Reed EP 200A Phaser" patch can have a (fixed) phaser effect, a tremolo effect (with speed adjustment and on/off via the bend lever), the primary effect (choice of chorus, phaser, flanger, compressor, drive, and wah, all 2-parameter adjustable), reverb (2-parameter adjustable), delay (2-parameter adjustable), and the nutube drive (adjustable, but not storable). And the non-storable global EQ, if you count that.

 

1 hour ago, D. Gauss said:

I just bought a 2nd hand CK61 for crazy cheap, anybody know of a good fitting, inexpensive case/bag?  (other than the way overpriced Yammy one)

 

This 38" rifle bag on Amazon works, though a little clumsy with all the extra pockets and such unless you have a need for them. This cheaper one is also workable, though doesn't offer nearly as much protection, I think I'd want to add some foam of my own.

 

[D. Gauss]

10 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

This 38" rifle bag on Amazon works, though a little clumsy with all the extra pockets and such unless you have a need for them. This cheaper one is also workable, though doesn't offer nearly as much protection, I think I'd want to add some foam of my own.

 

 

 

cool. i already have the rifle bag for the casio cts1000v, and never thought to try it...will give it a go.  thanks.

[CNPCNP]

A store here in town has the CK88, a quick short first test today.
 

EP-focused impressions of a newbie (spoiled by having heard Keyscape & Arturia Stage V2):
(with additional disclaimer that so far only having heard the CK88 via the onboard speakers)

 

GOOD:
1.
Unsurprisingly, that hands-on FX section is great. Nice user interface. Also liked the availability of the EG-section, and that it's available for all sounds if I understood it correctly.

I wish the Korg/Vox Continental could have that as well for ALL its sound-types (IIRC for the Korg/Vox the ADSR is only available for KEY/LAYER sounds, which is a shame, would have been so cool if the ORGAN & (E.)PIANO could have this as well).

HMMM:
1.
Not that impressed by the EP sounds, let alone the modest number of Rhodes/Wurli types available. Like others have pointed out, if there's one you like, you don't need many others. A real Rhodes is also just 'one type' (apart from mechanical tine-tweaking).
 

Making me curious if the Reface CP is noticeably better here? The Reface has the 'potentially better approach/engine', right?
 

2.
Mildly shocked at the quite noticable velocity switchover-point (Rhodes). Are there just two velocity-samples ?!
Halfway it jumps from a bit dull to brighter, not giving (m)any nuances in between.
 

3.
The impression that the Rhodes/Wurli sounds are 'clean', as in: none or little of those mechanical side-noises&stuff that make e.g. Keyscape so great, giving you a better (fake-)impression of playing the real thing.
 

4.
Surprisingly, the onboard speakers didn't seem very loud. Just had one Part active, but at max, and Master Volume also at max.
No other noises in the shop. Possibly it builds when adding more Parts.
So far it just looks good for solo playing, but may become quickly insufficient when other players join. But no big deal this one, merely an observation. Can add amp.

So I'm a bit disappointed so far, had hoped the CK-Rhodes/Wurli sounds would have been more inviting. Makes me wonder indeed if I'm that spoiled by having heard Keyscape etc.

Alternatives for EPs come to mind like the Korg/VOX Continental, I truly hope this one sounds more towards (e.g.) Keyscape.
I'd miss the CK-FX then, but could probably live with that - as long as the EPs themselves of the Korg/VOX are better.
I could eventually add a Waldorf 4-Pole (VCF-ADSR, VCA-ADSR etc) and/or the old Korg/VOX Tonelab TableTop (I have the Vintage Keys edition, which could work well here. As a bonus, I could link it via MIDI to follow the VC via Prog Changes, which can get around the limitation of the VC not storing EQ & NuTube settings).
 

But first... probably best to try the CK again with better monitoring and/or headphones.

Have a good weekend!

 

[Paul Woodward]

I set the output to +6db on my CK. Speakers are loud enough in a small quiet room, maybe not a music shop. 

The pianos are close but not as good as the CP/YC but I have been playing with the YC and Korg Grandstage tonight so I'm comparing very similar sound sources. 

I still prefer nearly all the sounds in the Korg other than organs. Pianos are rich and full., eps smooth but have grit when you dig in, full samples of Clavs (Yamaha still don't have all four settings), strings and pads are huge, leads sweet or dirty. Even has a range of sound effects and hits should you need them. 

Sure many will disagree, but I think the KORG sounds better than the YC or CP. 

[CyberGene]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

But while you're right that some patches have effects baked in, I don't think any of them are "pre-recorded", I think they are using a "hidden" effect generator.

Ahh, I see. That’s very curious. So, basically the board is capable of using more FX but they’re hidden. I mistakenly thought there was no actual (hidden) tremolo and so they sampled an electric piano with tremolo 😀 Maybe the Vox is not bad after all. 

[Paul Woodward]

It's a shame the Vox (and Grandstage) can't be hacked to open them up like the editor for the Roland VR09 has. So much stuff hidden in there they keep discovering. 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, CNPCNP said:

(IIRC for the Korg/Vox the ADSR is only available for KEY/LAYER sounds, which is a shame, would have been so cool if the ORGAN & (E.)PIANO could have this as well).

You can see where there's no obvious direct way to implement it on the organ sounds, because those envelope controls are achieved by repurposing the strips that the organ is already using (e.g. for drawbars). But more than that, I think it's relevant that the organ/piano/EP sounds are derived from different Kronos engines than the keylayer sounds. For example, even on the Kronos it comes from, the EP engine, does not have ADSR parameters (though it has non-synth-like EP-specific adjustable parameters like hammer width and levels for the attack and release noises... but those are the kinds of "programmer things" the Kronos is full of, which, by design, the Vox is not).

 

1 hour ago, CNPCNP said:

Mildly shocked at the quite noticable velocity switchover-point (Rhodes). Are there just two velocity-samples ?!

It's more than two, but yes, break points are very discernible if you listen for them (again, that being a Vox advantage).

 

1 hour ago, CNPCNP said:

Surprisingly, the onboard speakers didn't seem very loud.

As Paul alluded to, there is a menu item where that can be adjusted.

 

1 hour ago, CNPCNP said:

Alternatives for EPs come to mind like the Korg/VOX Continental, I truly hope this one sounds more towards (e.g.) Keyscape.
I'd miss the CK-FX then, but could probably live with that - as long as the EPs themselves of the Korg/VOX are better.

For some Vox EP samples, check the thread at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/178238-scotts-big-rhodes-test-1-voxsv1px5s/

 

 

41 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

I have been playing with the YC and Korg Grandstage...Sure many will disagree, but I think the KORG sounds better than the YC or CP. 

That's consistent with my comment about most Vox Continental sounds being better than most CK sound, since the Grandstage and Vox Continental are basically siblings in many ways.

 

17 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

Ahh, I see. That’s very curious. So, basically the board is capable of using more FX but they’re hidden. I mistakenly thought there was no actual (hidden) tremolo and so they sampled an electric piano with tremolo 😀 Maybe the Vox is not bad after all. 

Yeah, similar to the phaser example... the tremolo has to be a generated effect and not "pre-recorded", both to keep all the notes you're playing "in sync" with where they are in the effect cycle, but in this case, also because there is a function that lets you vary the speed of the tremolo.

[CNPCNP]

3 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

I set the output to +6db on my CK. Speakers are loud enough in a small quiet room, maybe not a music shop. 

 

 

Ah OK! Good to hear there's an additional control for it, that 6dB will do the trick.

 

3 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

The pianos are close but not as good as the CP/YC but I have been playing with the YC and Korg Grandstage tonight so I'm comparing very similar sound sources. 

I still prefer nearly all the sounds in the Korg other than organs. Pianos are rich and full., eps smooth but have grit when you dig in, full samples of Clavs (Yamaha still don't have all four settings), strings and pads are huge, leads sweet or dirty. Even has a range of sound effects and hits should you need them. 

Sure many will disagree, but I think the KORG sounds better than the YC or CP. 

 

(using '>' for better/nicer/more-convincing)

Cool,  so with KORG/VOX  >  YC&CP  >  CK   there's still hope to find a hardware-keyboard with convincing-EPs.

A bit unfair perhaps to compare, but fingers crossed it won't also be  Keyscape   >>>   KORG/VOX  🥲

BTW, sorry to bring it up, but it remains a bit puzzling to me where the Reface CP fits in here. That one is using a different engine than the CK, right?
People generally seem to be euphoric about the Reface CP sounds (possibly mainly in relation to the price though),
while people don't seem to get carried away by the 'OK-enough' EPs of the CKs.
 

 

[AnotherScott]

13 minutes ago, CNPCNP said:

so with KORG/VOX  >  YC&CP  >  CK   there's still hope to find a hardware-keyboard with convincing-EPs.

And there are others as well. I don't remember what your other criteria were, that brought you to this short list in the first place (e.g. budget? travel weight? simplicity of operation?) -- but that link I included above demonstrates the Vox EPs as well as Korg SV1 and Casio PX5S. The Korg SV1 has been superseded by the SV2, but it remains a strong choice for EPs as well. Kurzweil PC4/PC4-7 is another nice option, you can also load the optional EPs from Purgatory Creek into them.

https://www.purgatorycreek.com/index.php/vkc-for-kurzweil-forte/

[CNPCNP]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

You can see where there's no obvious direct way to implement it on the organ sounds, because those envelope controls are achieved by repurposing the strips that the organ is already using (e.g. for drawbars). But more than that, I think it's relevant that the organ/piano/EP sounds are derived from different Kronos engines than the keylayer sounds. For example, even on the Kronos it comes from, the EP engine, does not have ADSR parameters (though it has non-synth-like EP-specific adjustable parameters like hammer width and levels for the attack and release noises... but those are the kinds of "programmer things" the Kronos is full of, which, by design, the Vox is not).

 

 

Thanks for pointing out, indeed limitations to control it, as well as those different engines. A pity.

OTOH #1, I figure it's nice to see that they didn't translate all stuff to a common kind of engine (losing some benefits for each along the way), but went for several separate machines. No idea to which extend this truly matters though.)

OTOH #2, that EG that I was lusting for, couldn't it simply be offered as a A(D)(S)R-controlled VCA for all, further down the chain. The problem remains to have controls for it, and it'll go a bit far by having it as a MIDI-controlled bonus feature only.


Which brings me to the pretty 'empty' MIDI-implementation of the KORG/VOX; what's the excuse to offer just so few CC-controllable parameters?

 

 

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

For some Vox EP samples, check the thread at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/178238-scotts-big-rhodes-test-1-voxsv1px5s/

 

 

Nice, thanks for the link, hadn't seen that thread yet. I had a listen, and will definitely run through it in some more detail.
 

[AnotherScott]

Oh, I forgot, for EP, it's also worth noting Crumar Seven and Viscount Legend ’70S, both companies employing modeling...

 

 

 

[CNPCNP]

1 minute ago, AnotherScott said:

And there are others as well. I don't remember what your other criteria were, that brought you to this short list in the first place (e.g. budget? travel weight? simplicity of operation?) -- but that link I included above demonstrates the Vox EPs as well as Korg SV1 amd Casio PX5S. The Korg SV1 has been superseded by the SV2, but it remains a strong choice for EPs as well. Kurzweil PC4/PC4-7 is another nice option, you can also load the optional EPs from Purgatory Creek into them.

https://www.purgatorycreek.com/index.php/vkc-for-kurzweil-forte/

 

Thanks for the additional model-suggestions! 🙏
I was pretty close to ordering a CK61, but gladly also saw the Korg/VOX, as well as realizing my total want-list. And then the fun began. 🙄😉
Nothing will tick all boxes I realize, if I come close it's OK as well.

I guess my wishlist is like this:
-indeed portability
-reliability (so the 'easy way out' of a computer + MIDI-controller OK for at home, but not outside)
-motivating EP sounds (obviously) and it would be very nice to have additional soundshaping options
-hands-on control (+++ for the CK)
-looking & feeling like a 'real instrument' (nothing wrong with say my convenient Keylab Essential, but it doesn't ooze vibe onstage)
-justifiable price for my still newbie keyboard fingers (though I realize good instruments are motivating)
-some way of triggering phrases (I have an old Korg N364 which can do this, but it's a too heavy beast - it did spike my interest for that microSTATION though)

 

 

[CNPCNP]

4 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Oh, I forgot, for EP, it's also worth noting Crumar Seven and Viscount Legend ’70S, both companies employing modeling...

 

Ouch, despite double the intended weight (I still have that silverface TwinReverb to lift as well...), both look&sound like gorgeous machines!

[drawback]

I've been hanging around this for a bit and wondered when it would get back around to this.

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/183138-yamaha-ck61-and-ck88/?do=findComment&comment=2984176

[CNPCNP]

32 minutes ago, drawback said:

I've been hanging around this for a bit and wondered when it would get back around to this.

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/183138-yamaha-ck61-and-ck88/?do=findComment&comment=2984176

🙃
True, possibly subjecting myself to information overload, may be going round in circles, learning, forgetting....
choosing the moment to break out of that, get the [INSERT TYPE NUMBER] and enjoying the sounds.

[Paul Woodward]

Coming back to the Vox, and the assumption that it’s the same sound engines from Kronos that are in the Grandstage.

Korg make no reference to the seven sound engines from the Kronos (just refer to them as modelled engines) in their spec for the Vox (they are specifically referenced in the Grandstage spec) and it has half the memory (10gb vs 19gb) of the Grandstage. Therefore, take my comments about the quality of the Grandstage sounds just as reference in regards to the Vox.

[AnotherScott]

Yes, Vox and Grandstage are kind of siblings... but like real siblings, they may come from the same parent, but can still have significant differences.In terms of the basic sound generating capabilities, the HD-1 PCM sound engine of the Grandstage has 19 GB of data (compressed from 32 GB), the Vox has 10.5 GB (ambiguously worded as to whether that's the pre or post compression figure).

 

Also, I see that the EP engine polyphony is different... and my inclination would be to think that's a typo, since there's no difference in polyphony to any of the other engines.

 

When first released, the VC was being marketed exclusively under the Vox brand (it did not appear anywhere on the Korg web site, only on the Vox web site). For whatever reason, they wanted it to have its own identity, and did not want it to be seen as a Korg. That would explain the lack of any mention of Kronos, and why you don't see the engines listed by their Kronos names. 

 

Still, even though the underlying sound generating tech is the same, that doesn't mean they have the same sounds... they don't. Since the Grandstage has over 500 sounds and the VC has about 200, obviously, the Grandstage has lots of sounds that are not in the Vox, but the Vox also has sounds that are not in the Grandstage. There is overlap, though. (BTW, both have sounds that are not in the Kronos as well.)

[CNPCNP]

12 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Yes, Vox and Grandstage are kind of siblings... but like real siblings, they may come from the same parent, but can still have significant differences.In terms of the basic sound generating capabilities, the HD-1 PCM sound engine of the Grandstage has 19 GB of data (compressed from 32 GB), the Vox has 10.5 GB (ambiguously worded as to whether that's the pre or post compression figure).

 

Those 'equivalent memory sizes' indeed a bit mysterious. I mean, the VC V2 update file is about 25% in size w.r.t. the increase in GB (see attached table).
There's obviously a file-compression ratio involved, but OTOH, I could also start with say a lowest quality MP3 file and translate that into a GB-sized 24-bit monster, it doesn't say anything about resolution. 🫢

Still, all these - most likely - will be a very different order of memory-magnitude vs machines like the Roland Juno-DS, Juno-Gi (equiv. 128MB) etc.
So 'apologies' for mentioning these here 😉 , it'll be different (lower) EP-league, but by chance it popped up and I saw some have an integrated pattern sequencer, which I could use well, if it hadn't been that these have again restrictions that pop up pretty soon (e.g. max 8 measure pattern length).

 

OK, enough tech-observations, let's play.

[AnotherScott]

Assuming no typo, that chart makes it clear, the VC has 10.5 GB of data pre-compression (11.9 with the update), which compares to the 32 GB figure for the Grandstage (not the 19 GB figure). So about one third the PCM data. Which is not surprising considering not just its extra sounds, but especially the difference in pianos, which are the biggest sample sets. I believe that the VC has the German and one other grand (not sure which it is), while the GS has the German, Italian, Japanese, Berlin, and Austrian.

 

But speaking of typos, that indicates another one. When you look at the spec page for the original red and newer black VC, the black one properly reflects the 64 user locations of the 2.0 software, while the original page still shows as never having been updated to 2.0, still showing the original spec of 16. But *both* show the 10.5 GB figure for PCM memory. They neglected to update the PCM size on the newer model. They got the 64 scenes right, but left the older PCM figure.

[CNPCNP]

Ah check! W.r.t. typo, let's hope the person having written the code is a different more accurate person than the webdesigner.


Something else that comes to mind: panning.    (I realize this thing better placed at the VC thread, I'll copy it - and can remove it over here, if desired)
The VC (v2) can be seen as a bi-timbral sound module, right?
While impossible to set this at the machine itself, I saw that incoming MIDI can control pan-position (CC #10).

Can this indeed work for panning two sounds, to have them available separately from each other, so each on their own output-socket?
The first say hard left (sending CC #10 on MIDI ch. #N) & the other hard right (sending CC #10 on MIDI ch. #N+1).
If this works, I could still imagine the FX could still spoil some fun here (, unless you refrain from them).

Any thoughts/experiences/experiments? If this could work on paper - any VC-owner care to try it?

 

 

[Fleer]

8 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Assuming no typo, that chart makes it clear, the VC has 10.5 GB of data pre-compression (11.9 with the update), which compares to the 32 GB figure for the Grandstage (not the 19 GB figure). So about one third the PCM data.

Exactly, and the new GrandStage X has over 50GB, five times as much as my Vox, so they will complement each other well. 

[niacin]

suggest you look at a Korg Nautilus, if you’re not thrilled with the EPs you can load in those from Purgatory Creek, they’re Keyscape quality or better, and it has all the functionality you want.

[John Tweed]

All this info about the Vox is very interesting, but I thought the  topic here is the Yamaha CK series itself. If I was looking for info on the Vox why would I look at a topic clearly marked Yamaha?

[AnotherScott]

9 minutes ago, niacin said:

suggest you look at a Korg Nautilus, if you’re not thrilled with the EPs you can load in those from Purgatory Creek, they’re Keyscape quality or better, and it has all the functionality you want.

 

Yes, Nautilus would give you most of what's in the Vox, plus a TON of other sounds and capabilities... but there are also trade-offs in higher weight, loss of a bunch of dedicated physical controls, no tube, no transistor organ engine, lesser action (albeit subjective), and the loss of the retro vibe/aesthetic. In a way, it's pretty similar to the trade-off of whether to buy a CK or a MODX. (There! Back on topic! 🙂 )

[niacin]

34 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

there are also trade-offs in higher weight, loss of a bunch of dedicated physical controls, no tube, no transistor organ engine, lesser action (albeit subjective), and the loss of the retro vibe/aesthetic.

 

Tthe physical controls on the Vox are somewhat limited when it comes to the EPs.  The Nautilus 61 and 73 don't weigh a tonne.  Transistor organ hasn't been mentioned.  So the tradeoff is basically the vibe: "looking & feeling like a 'real instrument'," and yes unfortunately the Nautilus looks like a computer with a keyboard attached.   

 

On 1/28/2024 at 11:17 AM, CNPCNP said:

I guess my wishlist is like this:
-indeed portability
-reliability (so the 'easy way out' of a computer + MIDI-controller OK for at home, but not outside)
-motivating EP sounds (obviously) and it would be very nice to have additional soundshaping options
-hands-on control (+++ for the CK)
-looking & feeling like a 'real instrument' (nothing wrong with say my convenient Keylab Essential, but it doesn't ooze vibe onstage)
-justifiable price for my still newbie keyboard fingers (though I realize good instruments are motivating)
-some way of triggering phrases (I have an old Korg N364 which can do this, but it's a too heavy beast - it did spike my interest for that microSTATION though)

 

You want 'vibe' and quality EPs and we're back at the SV1/2 or the Crumar offerings.  But then you want splits and panning and midi control and phrase triggering and all this other stuff that screams computer with a keyboard attached.  At some point you gotta choose.  Basically what Drawback said.

[AnotherScott]

5 minutes ago, niacin said:

 

It's only the aesthetic vibe and the dedicated physical controls on the OP's list of desirables, and the physical controls on the Vox are somewhat limited when it comes to the EPs.  The Nautilus 61 and 73 don't weigh a tonne and the transistor organ hasn't been mentioned.  So the tradeoff is basically the vibe: "looking & feeling like a 'real instrument'," no, it looks like a computer with a keyboard attached.   

Yes, I listed all the trade-offs, not just the ones relevant to CNPCNP. But even for him, the weight is a trade-off (remember his comment about Crumar/Viscount, "Ouch...double the intended weight" which is approached by Nautilus as well), and the physical controls are also still relevant... both for the EPs (e.g. effects) and for secondary sounds, which are not entirely irrelevant (remember, he's also talking about splits/layers). But yeah, I was just listing the main trade-offs, and not weighting their importance for this particular scenario.

 

5 minutes ago, niacin said:

You want 'vibe' and EPs and we're back at the SV1/2 or the Crumar offerings.  But then you want splits and panning and midi control and phrase triggering and all this other stuff that screams computer with a keyboard attached.  At some point you gotta choose.  Basically what Drawback said.

Or two boards. (And he did discuss supplementing with a second board, too, e.g. Microstation.)

[niacin]

 

50 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Or two boards. (And he did discuss supplementing with a second board, too, e.g. Microstation.)

If 2 boards is ok I'm back at go with the Vox and use the split to play one internal sound and one from the external board/module. Lightweight with the vibe and feel of a real instrument and I’m really not seeing the alternatives to the Vox.  But mostly, like Drawback, I think we're going round in circles. 

 

Maybe a Numa X piano 73 with an iPad for the extra sounds would do the trick?  I don't own one but reviews give the Rhodes a big thumbs up and the iPad integration is brilliant.

 

Or maybe we're at Nord.  It was always on the cards 🤣