Pet Peeve: Keyboard stands

[The Real MC]

I've been gigging since 1981.  Keyboards are getting better and better every year.

Keyboard stands?  Many of them SUCK.

Frankly during my gigging experience many keyboard stands are just plain junk or uncomfortable to play with.

Now if you look at drum hardware, they evolved over the years and are rock solid and reliable.

I can't say the same for most keyboard stands.

Two of the early stands were Invisible and Ultimate Support Systems (USS).  Invisible was a solid stand but my feet kept bumping the stand frame on the floor.  Today I would only use mine if playing LH bass.

 

I don't like anything interfering with my feet.  The same is true with the column stands that USS made.

Unless you're using small keyboards, the A-frame stands are unreliable.  The round tubular bars could never be tight enough to prevent slipping without cracking the plastic clamps.  After one too many keyboards were dumped to the floor when the round bar slipped I stopped using them for stage.  I keep one A-frame stand in my studio, but I re-arranged the assembly so that two bars support my weighted action MIDI controller (goodbye slippage), and one of the vertical pairs are set upright so they double as a stand for the studio speakers.

 

X-stands are banned from my arsenal.  They tip or collapse too easily, and many are cheap construction.

 

My stage system needed racks, so I designed the height of the racks to double as a keyboard stand.  All I need is a table top stand with tiers to set on top of the racks... no one makes one.  I had to build one using a wood frame base with tier components I bought overseas.

 

It is HARD to find good keyboard stands.  Some are better for studio, some are better for stage.  Some basic stands are good, but their tiers are not.  When performing I play standing up and most stands don't rise high enough.  I had to modify the stand I use on stage to get the playing height comfortable.

 

Another frustration is distribution.  There are REALLY good keyboard stands out there, but not in the US.  You have to order them from retailers overseas.  Bespeco (later K&M) makes a really good stage table stand; the tiers were the best I ever found (they pivot very easy then lock in place with alligator teeth grips) but they are no longer made.  The K&M 18822 and 18811 tiers are REALLY solid but they don't fold for storage between gigs.

Standtastic makes very good keyboard stands.  But they are made in batches and not always available.  They are better for the fixed studio layout; not ideal for stage as they take longer to set up and they take up more stage space than the K&M.  The tiers are rugged enough to support heavy and/or deep keyboards.  And they are the only stands I hadn't needed to modify.

But try and FIND these brands in stores... no, the stores stock the cheaper inferior brands.  There are other good stands like Jasper but I have yet to see them in stores.

[o0Ampy0o]

2 minutes ago, The Real MC said:

I've been gigging since 1981.  Keyboards are getting better and better every year.

Keyboard stands?  Many of them SUCK.

Frankly during my gigging experience many keyboard stands are just plain junk or uncomfortable to play with.

Now if you look at drum hardware, they evolved over the years and are rock solid and reliable.

I can't say the same for most keyboard stands.

Two of the early stands were Invisible and Ultimate Support Systems (USS).  Invisible was a solid stand but my feet kept bumping the stand frame on the floor.  Today I would only use mine if playing LH bass.

 

I don't like anything interfering with my feet.  The same is true with the column stands that USS made.

Unless you're using small keyboards, the A-frame stands are unreliable.  The round tubular bars could never be tight enough to prevent slipping without cracking the plastic clamps.  After one too many keyboards were dumped to the floor when the round bar slipped I stopped using them for stage.  I keep one A-frame stand in my studio, but I re-arranged the assembly so that two bars support my weighted action MIDI controller (goodbye slippage), and one of the vertical pairs are set upright so they double as a stand for the studio speakers.

 

X-stands are banned from my arsenal.  They tip or collapse too easily, and many are cheap construction.

 

My stage system needed racks, so I designed the height of the racks to double as a keyboard stand.  All I need is a table top stand with tiers to set on top of the racks... no one makes one.  I had to build one using a wood frame base with tier components I bought overseas.

 

It is HARD to find good keyboard stands.  Some are better for studio, some are better for stage.  Some basic stands are good, but their tiers are not.  When performing I play standing up and most stands don't rise high enough.  I had to modify the stand I use on stage to get the playing height comfortable.

 

Another frustration is distribution.  There are REALLY good keyboard stands out there, but not in the US.  You have to order them from retailers overseas.  Bespeco (later K&M) makes a really good stage table stand; the tiers were the best I ever found (they pivot very easy then lock in place with alligator teeth grips) but they are no longer made.  The K&M 18822 and 18811 tiers are REALLY solid but they don't fold for storage between gigs.

Standtastic makes very good keyboard stands.  But they are made in batches and not always available.  They are better for the fixed studio layout; not ideal for stage as they take longer to set up and they take up more stage space than the K&M.  The tiers are rugged enough to support heavy and/or deep keyboards.  And they are the only stands I hadn't needed to modify.

But try and FIND these brands in stores... no, the stores stock the cheaper inferior brands.  There are other good stands like Jasper but I have yet to see them in stores.

 

There is an opportunity in there that could lead you to $$$$. Keep peeves for pets at your own risk. Cats are lovable and cute but everything is on their terms. Dogs just love you no matter what however I recommend you find smart ones. Nothing worse than a dumb dog no matter how much they love you regardless except maybe one of your pet keyboard stand peeves. 

 

[Mr -G-]

X stands can be easily made  non-collapsible by adding a strap (or a chain) between the two top tubes/bars that prevents it opening beyond certain angle.

[The Real MC]

36 minutes ago, o0Ampy0o said:

 

There is an opportunity in there that could lead you to $$$$. Keep peeves for pets at your own risk. Cats are lovable and cute but everything is on their terms. Dogs just love you no matter what however I recommend you find smart ones. Nothing worse than a dumb dog no matter how much they love you regardless except maybe one of your pet keyboard stand peeves. 

 

 

Dammit you destroyed my gripe with cute dogs and kitties.

[cassdad]

I think the early Rhodes had 2 great ideas that I thought worked rock solidly, and have yet to be beat:

1). My original Rhodes “suitcase”, where 1/2 the keyboard sat on the edge of the thick amp/speaker cabinet, with legs that extended out for the other (keyboard side) 1/2.  (And we need an amp/speakers anyways, so I think it was a creative idea which answered the need, while taking up absolutely no extra space beyond the keyboard itself!)

2). The legs for my Rhodes Stage…. which screwed right into the keyboard itself, with 2 bars that went from the front legs to the bottom center of the keyboard (if memory serves).

 

I remember both these methods resulting in a rock solid playing surface.  Yup, they were both unacceptably heavy keyboards, but I still think both were great stand/amp ideas which I wish still existed today.

[eric]

Invisible stands have long been my favorites. A few people have talked about trying to recreate these and market them, though nothing has materialized as far as I know. I've held onto a stockpile of them, even though I don't use them quite so often. Particularly with my custom welded stand.

 

I think the K&M Omega stands are really great stands, aside from portability.

 

I have not tried the Gibraltar stands, although I now just remembered that I ordered the parts for a basic single tier Gibraltar before Covid. I'll have to dig that out and see if I want to use it. I know we have a few happy Gibraltar users on this forum.

[ElmerJFudd]

I’m surprised given all the stand types on the market that a lightweight, easily carried table type stand that sets up and breaks down quickly is elusive.  All designs check some boxes better than others.  

[ElmerJFudd]

3 minutes ago, eric said:

I think the K&M Omega stands are really great stands, aside from portability.

Ding ding ding 🛎!
 

yes, it’s a very good stand.  I’d like it to go one notch lower and for the main section of it to collapse down.  if they could make the pieces snap together and fit in a shoulder bag it would be awesome.   

[Mighty Motif Max]

8 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I’m surprised given all the stand types on the market that a lightweight, easily carried table type stand that sets up and breaks down quickly is elusive.  All designs check some boxes better than others.  

Wouldn’t the K&M 18950 fit this bill? That’s what I’ve used for a few years now.

[Delaware Dave]

Been using my x stand for 30 years with a 2nd tier.  Not an ounce of trouble.  At one time used a 72 pound stage piano and a 57 pound second k/b on the top tier, never a problem...

[ElmerJFudd]

3 minutes ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

Wouldn’t the K&M 18950 fit this bill? That’s what I’ve used for a few years now.

I wish it collapsed more.  The 18810 type stand I feel has potential to have the main section break down as well.   

[TommyRude]

7 minutes ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

Wouldn’t the K&M 18950 fit this bill? That’s what I’ve used for a few years now.

Ding ding ding winner

[ElmerJFudd]

6 minutes ago, Delaware Dave said:

Been using my x stand for 30 years with a 2nd tier.  Not an ounce of trouble.  At one time used a 72 pound stage piano and a 57 pound second k/b on the top tier, never a problem...

X’s always get the job done.  They could be smaller carry, built with stronger material at the cross/lock point so they can go lower if needed - but that might be a physics problem.  And I don’t love the wobble, though in play it doesn’t really interfere.  Just a pet peeve.   

[AnotherScott]

My most common recommendation... K&M 18880 with a 18881 and/or 18882 stacker for additional tier(s). Super light, super easy/fast to set up and break down, lets you set up the boards almost any way you could want. (The 18881 can be flipped backwards if you want it to function more the way the Invisible did.)

[mate stubb]

Hence all the stand construction threads on this forum. I've always built my own or modified commercial stands - only way to get what I wanted. 

[Mighty Motif Max]

33 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I wish it collapsed more.  The 18810 type stand I feel has potential to have the main section break down as well.   

It collapses into a flat rectangle about 3-inches thick. About as compact as I can think of. If you have actual attachments/tiers added, unscrew those first so it can fold down completely.

[drawback]

39 minutes ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

Wouldn’t the K&M 18950 fit this bill? That’s what I’ve used for a few years now.

The Gator Frameworks table stand folds flatter and is less money. Can’t vouch for the quality, but it certainly seems solid. 
 

 

[Mighty Motif Max]

17 minutes ago, drawback said:

The Gator Frameworks table stand folds flatter and is less money. Can’t vouch for the quality, but it certainly seems solid. 
 

 

The Gator stand isn't as adjustable or stable. Cheaper, yes - but buy the K&M from Thomann and it's significantly cheaper than from US dealers, even with the shipping (in the neighborhood of $100-150 cheaper, depending on exchange rate/shipping costs). Since it's a mechanical product I have no concerns about warranty repair and such being overseas.

 

Here's a thread from a few years back when I was looking at getting one.

 

[drawback]

Haha - looks like we went back & forth on that one. Thanks for the reminder 🤐

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

The Gator stand isn't as adjustable or stable. Cheaper, yes - but buy the K&M from Thomann and it's significantly cheaper than from US dealers, even with the shipping (in the neighborhood of $100-150 cheaper, depending on exchange rate/shipping costs). Since it's a mechanical product I have no concerns about warranty repair and such being overseas.

 

Here's a thread from a few years back when I was looking at getting one.

 

Tell us about your experience buying from Thomann in the US?   I think under $800 evades import/duty fee.  What is shipping cost like, any other fees or taxes? 

1 hour ago, drawback said:

The Gator Frameworks table stand folds flatter and is less money. Can’t vouch for the quality, but it certainly seems solid. 
 

 

Looks like this collapsed.  
 

[Mighty Motif Max]

34 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Tell us about your experience buying from Thomann in the US?   I think under $800 evades import/duty fee.  What is shipping cost like, any other fees or taxes? 

...

I've purchased a good number of things from them over the last three years or so - K&M products are always significantly cheaper from them (unsurprising since they're based in Germany), Jasper's stands, various accessory products, and MUTEC flash boards. Of course there are significant brand limitations in terms of what can be shipped to the US due to manufacturer restrictions, but there's a lot of things that don't have US distribution that you can get as well. Yes, under $800 evades import/duty fee in my experience; I've never ordered more than that. You don't pay VAT either.

 

Shipping costs vary - I remember a few years ago I ordered some things in March and then some stuff in June/July...the shipping price had doubled. More recently it's varied. They have a shipping calculation before checkout so you can get a good idea. In the past, the shipping price didn't change much regardless of the amount of gear you ordered. Now, it does. So add whatever you might want to your cart, get to the shipping calculation page, and then remove stuff as needed. Works great. Their customer service is really helpful as well if you need them - the time difference makes things a bit miserable from the US side, but they're great to work with. Second only to Sweetwater for online customer service IMO.

 

Here IS some information on how their warranty/return policies work for US buyers, from when I was going to buy a Viscount K4EX from them (but gave up due to potential enormous import duty):

 

Quote

This depends, as you noted before, if they would acknowledge warranty in the US if you purchase it from a retailer in Europe. This is something we cant answer as well, unfortunately. Best would be to clarify this with the manufacturer.

However, of course you would have full warranty for 3 years with us.

Following are our general rules of warranty. The one highlighted in red apply for you as well.

Generally speaking, we offer 2 types of warranties in Europe: 30-days Money-back and a 3-year repair warranty. Looking at our website, you will see the corresponding icons next to the article description. Should these icons be missing, you are interested in an item with warranty restrictions. Here are some examples of such products: software products, products sold by meter, items produced by custom specifications, or products that cannot be returned due to hygienic reasons.

30-days Money-back: 

You can return the ordered products back to us during the first 30 days in case you are not satisfied with them or you have ordered the wrong items.

For a return under Money-back guarantee it is essentially important that the items are being sent back in their original packaging, with all accessories and without any signs of use. 

The following regulations apply to EU countries:

The 30 days are split up in 14 days statutory right of withdrawal followed by additional 16 days Thomann Money-back warranty.

Within the first 14 days after receiving the goods, the return is free of charge for you; however we would ask you to please contact us under any circumstance prior to the return and await our instructions.

Within the additional 16 days, the costs for the return from abroad are to be paid by the customer.

The following regulations apply to non-EU countries:

Within our normal 30 days money back warranty from abroad, the return shipping costs are paid by the customer. We would ask you to please contact us under any circumstance prior to the return and await our instructions so that we can provide you with all the necessary documents.

If an item should be defective during the first 30 days, we kindly ask you to get in touch with us directly upon noticing the defect, as during this timeframe we usually have the possibility to replace the defective item. 

3- Years Repair Warranty: 

Thomann GmbH offers an additional year of repair warranty on top of the 2-year manufacturer’s warranty. Should you have any problem with the product within this period of time, please contact us directly. We will then help you to carry out the warranty and inform you in detail about your specific case. 

The return costs for the defective item are being covered by Thomann GmbH. 

Please do not hesitate to contact us in you have any further questions.

 

 

[Mighty Motif Max]

37 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

[gator]

Looks like this collapsed.  
 

 For comparison, this is the K&M 18950 folded - not as thin. Great build quality however.

 

[D. Gauss]

For any of you Philly or Delaware old farts who might remember the legendary Beru Revue and/or Kenn Kweder...  you want the Buzz Barkley (r.i.p.) shopping cart stand. Rolls on and off stage, solid as a rock.

 

[16251]

I'm a supercar aficionado. Me, a poor musician who only can only dream about driving one someday. My point? Carbon fiber. I know there's no money in such a endeavor, but I would be intrigued to see a keyboard stand in CF might be like.  My pet peeve is I dislike using a stand that weighs more than the keyboard it will hold.

[kenheeter]

K&M 18880 and stacker for me.   Lightweight, strong, easy to set up / tear down, no incidents in 10 years.  Best I've used.  I have an Invisible  stand in my studio but it doesn't allow my keyboards to get as close as the K&M.

 

[ElmerJFudd]

20 minutes ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

 For comparison, this is the K&M 18950 folded - not as thin. Great build quality however.

 

I have to check the spec sheet to see what its lowest position is.  I have the 18810, it’s very useful at home.  It’s transportable but cumbersome.  Others I use and have used are Ultimate, X stands, Standtastic.   They all have their pros and cons.  

[Delaware Dave]

1 hour ago, D. Gauss said:

For any of you Philly or Delaware old farts who might remember the legendary Beru Revue and/or Kenn Kweder...  you want the Buzz Barkley (r.i.p.) shopping cart stand. Rolls on and off stage, solid as a rock.

 

 

Have seen Beru Revue and Ken Kweder and his Secret Kids several times....  Dont remember the shopping cart. 

[drawback]

I used a Black & Decker Workmate for a couple of years ('80s). Worked like a charm, especially when woodshedding 😉

[EscapeRocks]

re: the Gator Frameworks tabletop stand.....

 

I have some good Gator Frameworks products.  The tabletop stand in question was not one of them.

You all know me and my Frankenstein stand builds so I won't bore you here with all the 100's of pics

 

Way back in the 80's I had the original version of the USS A-Frame.  Thing was solid.

Stand in my possession:

 My original Ultimate APEX, purchased new in '87..still solid

 2015 AX-48Pro... the update version

Ultimate AX-90 missile launcher

OnStage 2 tier Z-Stand with various attachments...some custom by me

2 tier rotating stand built my me out of 36" high 12" square Global light Truss, barstool rotating plate, an old 2nd tier from an OnStage  Z

and of course my Gibraltar stands.  I now have two ready to go

 

I do agree with the premise that  it's hard to find good off the shelf keyboard stands, especially in the United States.

That's why I began rolling my own, so I could have exactly what I want, as Moe mentioned above.

 

As far as X-Stands, I still have a couple. Never a problem.   One did become a paint rack for those times I delve into painting a keyboard

 

 

 

[D. Gauss]

1 hour ago, Delaware Dave said:

 

Have seen Beru Revue and Ken Kweder and his Secret Kids several times....  Dont remember the shopping cart. 

can't remember when buzz died, but when he was alive, it was kinda hard to miss/forget