Korg PA5X

[ElmerJFudd]

 

160 voice polyphony, Enhanced Definition Synthesis-Expanded sound generation, multimode filters and EQ on every track. Each track also has insert effects from a huge library as well as master effects from Waves | MaxxAudio® Suite. Along with the tones, you get 130 drum kits with room to store up to 384. The matrix of percussion pads gives you a more nuanced way to run your kits. There’s an 8″ touch-screen for displaying all the information you need and a colour-coded system that highlights the functions you need to be focused on. And you can fully mix your whole arrangement and finalise your mix with those Waves plugins.

 

Sampling

For sampling, there are 8GBs for waves and Soundfonts and an SD card slot for continuous expansion. There’s now a dedicated guitar input alongside the microphone input. And, of course, the Pa5X comes with amp and speaker simulation and room for 4 stomp-box effects. You also get some nice vocal and harmonisation effects.

[miden]

also releasing a hammer action 88 note model - couldn't see what exact type other than "realistic piano-like touch" whatever that means

[jerrythek]

A few other things of note:

 

New, mode-less operation

Ability to cross-fade between Styles and Keyboard Sets, not just Sequences or Songs

A lot of new sample sources (woodwinds, brass)

New/improved drawbar organ engine

 

 

 

 

[miden]

oooh boy, at 7.7k down under, it's an expensive unit, BUT , but,,,gas is forming for the 88 note version! Will depend on the piano sound.

1 minute ago, jerrythek said:

A few other things of note:

 

New, mode-less operation

Ability to cross-fade between Styles and Keyboard Sets, not just Sequences or Songs

A lot of new sample sources (woodwinds, brass)

New/improved drawbar organ engine

 

 

 

 

 

Yes just reading the specs Jerry, very impressive! If ever there was an "all in one" this may very well, finally, be it!

[Sam CA]

I'd be very interested in the 88 key as well. The usual problem with that is...if I get the 88, it'll never leave the house, but it'll be what I like to play. If I get the smaller version, it'll be meh....but I'll be able to use it for gigs from time to time. 

[miden]

Tony from Bonners (always does good vids) has a really good broad-brush demo here.... that cross fading of styles (18.20) and the chord sequencer (15.58) could be worth price of admission alone....AP (well the one he played), sounded ok too

 

[GovernorSilver]

This is a sign that buying my first decent arranger keyboard was a good decision.  I've enjoyed learning how to use it, learning how the chord recognition works, etc.

 

With a steady track record of arranger keyboard releases from Yamaha, Korg had to answer sooner or later.   Kudos!

[Dockeys]

2 hours ago, miden said:

also releasing a hammer action 88 note model - couldn't see what exact type other than "realistic piano-like touch" whatever that means

88 note version is a Fatar action as well. He says if around the 1:19 mark of first video. They probably took some stuff from the Kronos and  Nautilus I’d imagine. Thought they might have put the RH3 action in the 88? Nice looking board but sheesh what a price for the 88!! If guys playing arrangers earn this much money I’m playing the wrong type of gigs. 

[GovernorSilver]

Sure, these are at a whole different level than the $200-$300 arranger keyboards.

 

Clearly a market for the highest of the high-end arrangers exists, otherwise we wouldn't have seen the likes of Pa5x, Pa4x, Genos, and Tyros in practically continuous production for all these years.  

 

I experienced similar sticker shock the first time I heard of the Tyros, then looked up the price.  😄

[stoken6]

So: internal PSU - check. 5-pin MIDI - check. 76 keys - check (although wheels to the left, so almost as long as an 88). Aftertouch - check. Audio inputs - check.

 

Organ model sounded CX3ish, which I will say is a pass.

 

Expression pedal? Not clear from the "Damper Pedal; supports half-pedaling with the optional KORG DS-1H pedal 2 Assignable Pedal/Footswitch" EDIT "VOX V860 Volume Pedal" is an option so that looks oP.  

 

USB host support - looks like three inputs! 

 

And those sprung-action boards are heavy! Over 38lb for the 76, against 44 for the 88.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

 

[Rod S]

Also a feature not typical found... HDMI output for an external input.   

[miden]

5 hours ago, Dockeys said:

88 note version is a Fatar action as well. He says if around the 1:19 mark of first video. They probably took some stuff from the Kronos and  Nautilus I’d imagine. Thought they might have put the RH3 action in the 88? Nice looking board but sheesh what a price for the 88!! If guys playing arrangers earn this much money I’m playing the wrong type of gigs. 

 

Yes that surprises me also.. Down here retail is $9999, street about $7.3 to around $7.7. For those prices I would have expected the RH3 for sure!!

[Chris Towns]

As a PA4X owner I have been quite interested in this launch. That said, I recently became the owner of a Korg Nautilus 88. Why these Companies are so clouded in secrecy is totally beyond me. I'll give this a miss because of my recent acquisition but had I known it was coming I'd probably have held back on the Nautilus and gone for the PA5X.

 

I've listened to around six or seven online demos and the only one that I really enjoyed was Tony at Bonners, Eastbourne, U.K. he is a wonderful player.

 

Kudos to Korg for having all their retailers fully stocked with the instrument on launch day and also for having the video manuals posted online so quickly.

 

When the Yamaha Genos was launched, it was hailed as a game-changer, totally different to what went before. Total tosh, it's a Tyros 6 nothing more nothing less albeit in a different casing. I don't think the PA5X makes those claims, but in the hands of some of the demo players it sounds (to me anyway) exactly the same as all the arranger keyboards that went before. give the video a watch and tell me if you agree.

 

I hope Korg do well with the PA5X, especially in these tough times but I do think they might have to re-assess their pricing of it though.

 

 

 

[stoken6]

Early pricing is £4300 in the UK for the 88. Pricey, but not actually as bad as my worst-case fears.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[stoken6]

14 minutes ago, chelsea4023 said:

Tony at Bonners, Eastbourne, U.K. he is a wonderful player

While I enjoyed that video, Tony didn't strike me as a monster muso. No shade, but he has a slightly odd technique in his LH - he doesn't use his thumb as much as you would expect, and plonks odd notes with his LH index finger. The giveaway is fingering fifths 2-5 - I bet he's really a geetar player. In his RH, he'll finger, say GAcf as 1-1 2 5, rather than 1235. 

 

A bit strange, but harmless...

 

Cheers, Mike.

[GovernorSilver]

I don't see much in common between Nautilus and Pa5X.    Two different tools for two different purposes.

[RandyFF]

As point of contrast with a much cheaper board, I owned the Pa1000 ($2,200) and what a board!!!!!

- The sound quality was so inspiring

- Speakers were powerful, lush and rich sounding

- Styles made it sound like pro musicians were jamming with you.  

- And being a melodica player, I LOVED the TC-helicon microphone/guitar front panel controls with knobby control over volume, effects type, effects volume.  

-I really enjoyed their basic Tone management/editing system: there was a dedicated sound editing mode that was really powerful, 24 oscillators to edit, tons and tons of capability (puts Yamaha arrangers to shame); but mostly I just used their offset editing mode, which still had more parameters to edit than most boards and was all I usually needed and it was fast and intuitive

 

I often wished there was an 88 note version of it, with all that power I wanted more keys and weighted ones at that.

 

PA5X, things I notice:

- no top panel controls for guitar/microphone, perhaps this is partially made up for with the touchscreen controls, but still, what a great layout

- having access to chord sequences is a big deal with arrangers, this one has many more capabilities

- the weight- even the 76er is 38 pounds- yikes!  At 44 pounds for the 88, that’s more reasonable, though the quality of the keybed will be the test

- the price- I’d be waiting for the PA1000 successor and the hand me downs from the PA5X.  Korg is surprisingly generous with what the cheaper boards inherit, I really didn’t have much GAS for the PA4X because the PA1000 had most of the sound quality and capabilities of its big brother, AND, it had those fabulous speakers and lighter weight

- my biggest problem with the PA1000 was the complexity, so freaking much to learn and remember.  If they’ve made the PA5X considerably more user friendly, THAT would be its most compelling attraction for me.  But realistically, the price is way over the top and without those phenomenal speakers and lighter weight, the PA1000 still beats it in my book.  

 

Looking forward to their PA2000!

[ProfD]

Arranger KBs  have been around forever but I never see musos using them live and/or in studios.

 

The demos of arranger KBs remind me of MIDI sequences in workstation KBs. The *music* is always that which has already been done. It's never *new* or pushing forward. 

 

Considering the prices of high end arranger KBs, there must be a whole one-man-band music scene somewhere and a dedicated forum for those who use arranger KBs. 

 

I *hear* what an arranger KB can do but I don't *get* the appeal of it. Sounds like karoake for musicians.😁 😎

[drawback]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

Arranger KBs  have been around forever but I never see musos using them live and/or in studios.

 

The demos of arranger KBs remind me of MIDI sequences in workstation KBs. The *music* is always that which has already been done. It's never *new* or pushing forward. 

 

Considering the prices of high end arranger KBs, there must be a whole one-man-band music scene somewhere and a dedicated forum for those who use arranger KBs. 

 

I *hear* what an arranger KB can do but I don't *get* the appeal of it. Sounds like karoake for musicians.😁 😎

All interesting points, ProfD. I'm kind of torn about arrangers in general because it appears they can be so much fun to play and they're sounding less tacky all the time. I don't think I'd ever use fake horns or guitars, but the new drum enhancements sound very realistic. For a player like me, retired from sideman & band gigs (still performing on piano), this is tempting for an "at home" jam with myself/machine, or a guitar player buddy. The only thing holding me back (other than the funds, ha ha) is the absence of deep program editing like I get with Kronos – but the out of the box programs do seem better than the same base sounds in Kronos, so perhaps not as much editing would be as necessary.

[ProfD]

@drawback, an arranger KB could be a fun composition tool. It definitely elliminates the cons of having to round up and play with other musicians.

 

Still, my inner comedian sees an arranger KB as the instrumental equivalent of a blow-up doll.🤣

 

The newer models may be less tacky but I have no hands on experience or proof. 😁😎

[miden]

2 hours ago, ProfD said:

Arranger KBs  have been around forever but I never see musos using them live and/or in studios.

 

The demos of arranger KBs remind me of MIDI sequences in workstation KBs. The *music* is always that which has already been done. It's never *new* or pushing forward. 

 

Considering the prices of high end arranger KBs, there must be a whole one-man-band music scene somewhere and a dedicated forum for those who use arranger KBs. 

 

I *hear* what an arranger KB can do but I don't *get* the appeal of it. Sounds like karoake for musicians.😁 😎

 

In the USA, huge in Europe, and in other countries. Aside from the "one-finger" players, you still need to be able to create chords and play melody and construct a performance...TBH, they are not all that different to a looper that so many seem to espouse. A machine is STILL playing your parts for you. Or indeed using backing tracks when doing a one person gig.

 

To me , it is all about perception, and perhaps just a little "musical snobbery" on the part of those who do think they are just karaoke machines.

[drawback]

41 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Still, my inner comedian sees an arranger KB as the instrumental equivalent of a blow-up doll.🤣

Post of the month, and it's only the 2nd!  

 

[RandyFF]

5 hours ago, drawback said:

The only thing holding me back (other than the funds, ha ha) is the absence of deep program editing like I get with Kronos – but the out of the box programs do seem better than the same base sounds in Kronos, so perhaps not as much editing would be as necessary.

 

Please check out what I wrote about five posts above this one.

 

The Yamaha arrangers have limited editing capability. The Korg arrangers have an insane amount of patch editing. And just as good, the OFFSET EDITING for your individual song means you don't get entangled with changing the patch for all the songs that use that patch, it allows you to quickly and easily adjust upwards of 30? parameters just for the offset edited patch being used in a particular song, making it much faster and intuitive.

 

Some people say the sound quality is even better than with workstations for three reasons:

- many sounds have built-in articulation capabilities. Workstations are starting to include this as well, as far as I know arrangers are far ahead on this, partly because the arranger market is so lucrative and they want to present a plug and go system

- with 24 oscillators, the sound sculpting can get incredibly detailed

- instead of a philosophy of roll your own like with workstations, they try to present a more finished, polished sound (this has probably changed over time, I can only imagine that workstations these days try to sound as good as they can out of the box)

 

And while there is nothing new generated by using an arranger, are any of us proficient in all the musical styles that interest us? An arranger has its place in learning baselines, chord comps and Rhythm patterns for a great number of musical styles.

 

The thing that astounded me about the PA-1000, Korg's last-generation mid-tier arranger, was how incredibly engaging and well done the Styles were done.  It sounds like having excellent studio musicians as your backing band.

 

After having played a half a dozen sub $1,000 arranger boards over the years, the usability and sheer musicality of the Styles was a big and very pleasant surprise.

 

However, as a whole, I found the PA1000 UI to be convoluted, with brilliant exceptions being the offset editing of patches, and that wonderful control area with knobs and buttons for top panel control of guitar and microphone volumes and effects sends.

 

At least one very good thing to count on with the PA5X, I would think, is that at that price point you're getting an excellent semi-weighted keybed. Time will tell about the 88 note version.

[GovernorSilver]

9 hours ago, drawback said:

All interesting points, ProfD. I'm kind of torn about arrangers in general because it appears they can be so much fun to play and they're sounding less tacky all the time. I don't think I'd ever use fake horns or guitars, but the new drum enhancements sound very realistic. For a player like me, retired from sideman & band gigs (still performing on piano), this is tempting for an "at home" jam with myself/machine, or a guitar player buddy. The only thing holding me back (other than the funds, ha ha) is the absence of deep program editing like I get with Kronos – but the out of the box programs do seem better than the same base sounds in Kronos, so perhaps not as much editing would be as necessary.

 

If you're new to arrangers, the Pa5X and competing Genos are a risky investment just to see if an arranger might be for you.

 

I'm quite happy with my Yamaha PSR-SX600, which for my interests occupies a happy place between being too underpowered and having too high a cost for entry.

 

Arrangers tend to place more emphasis on, well, arranging your song sections in real time than diving deep into sound design.  At least those that cost thousands less than the very highest of the high end - Genos, Pa4X, Pa5X.

 

Arrangers leave it up to you to decide how long of an intro you want for your song, when to switch from one verse/chorus variation to another, when to insert fills, when to transition to the bridge (which is just another variation to the arranger), and when it's time for the outro, and how long of an outro.  If the Kronos sequencer is anything like the one on my Korg M3, you would have had to program all the intros, variations, bridge, fills and outros yourself - the drums, bass, rhythm guitar/keys, etc.   And if you did the song in a 60s rock style but decide you want to do it in country shuffle instead, the arranger would let you simply change the style and all those intros, fills, outros, variations, etc would match the new style... while a workstation sequencer would not do that for you.

[Fleer]

Or try a Korg i3. Cheap and sweet. 

[Synthaholic]

On 7/2/2022 at 11:50 AM, ProfD said:

I *hear* what an arranger KB can do but I don't *get* the appeal of it. Sounds like karoake for musicians.😁 😎

I find the arranged styles a little too slick, a little too produced-sounding, so I agree with you. I had a PA4X for a couple of weeks and was very disappointed in the sounds, especially the pianos, which were not ported over from Kronos.

[GovernorSilver]

Pa5X though is supposed to allow you to edit the styles to your taste.  That's one of the main selling points for this arranger over the cheaper ones.   Mine will also let you create/edit styles onboard - it costs much less than the Pa-series arrangers, but more than the $300 ones.  The cheap arrangers have no onboard style editing at all.  The $300-$500 one might allow user styles via 3rd party software and jumping through a hoop or 3.

 

The Pa5X's cross-fade between styles looks nice.  This might be the only arranger that will let you play "Footprints" the way Miles' quintet did on that iconic record - you know, the crossfading between swing and latin styles.

 

I'd be surprised if Korg made no attempt at all to improve the quality of instrument sounds over the Pa4X.   The website suggests otherwise, although the judgement will ultimately come from the customers..

[konaboy]

well, all arrangers allow you to switch between styles so never been a problem to play footprints and switch between latin and swing.  you can seamlessly switch styles on an arranger and it will stay locked in time.

 

the crossfade however will allow you to have a mix of latin and swing playing at the same time. not sure why anybody would want this, so for me this feature is a bit of a gimmick.

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, konaboy said:

the crossfade however will allow you to have a mix of latin and swing playing at the same time. not sure why anybody would want this, so for me this feature is a bit of a gimmick.

When I first heard of the feature, I thought it was more of a "morph" which could give you a style "partway between latin and swing" or "partway between Romanian folk and chiptune" or "partway between gamelan and speed-metal" - which would be really cool.

 

It sounds like it's just "you can have two styles at the same time", which is ... meh.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[GovernorSilver]

Benn Jordan just discovered the joys of arranger keyboarding.   Just happens to be one of the most expensive models on the market  😄