Dearth of showroom models

[ElmerJFudd]

Was at two GC’s in the last two days.  There is not much on the showroom floor to try. Certainly no Fantom-0.  High end boards - a Stage 3.  Mid tier - an MODX8. That was it.   The rest were sub $1k Casio and Williams digital slabs.  
 

Similar in the lighting department at the Home Depot for that matter. Not much on display and limited stock.  
 

How goes in your neck of the woods? 

[timwat]

As far as GC and other music retailers, pre-pandemic showrooms were becoming boneyards with scarce pickings. What was there was often not plugged in, and if you could find a salesman they would inevitably push what they had as the solution to your problems (as any salesman might).

 

Post-pandemic it's more of the same. And I think a lot of this we have done to ourselves - so many use Guitar Center as their demo room to kick tires, then turn around and purchase online from Sweetwater, Kraft, or similar. Of course, GC hasn't done themselves any favors either - but that's another story.

 

Home Depot, depending on the location I've seen that...but I kind of think that's a different (and more temporary) problem. That supply chain delay issue will eventually get rectified, I believe. Hope I'm right.

[MathOfInsects]

I agree with Tim, these are two similar-looking issues with different causes. 

The fact is we are dinosaurs. Most music from keyboards is made with controllers now; those who prefer hardware are in a decided minority. Given the price range our tools of the trade occupy, we don't tend to like paying retail if we don't have to. And since the internet exists, we don't have to.

Not to mention, there are only a couple of good (or at least generally interchangeable) options across the ranges of controllers, so the floor space you devote to each has a potentially larger customer base. The customer base for hardware boards is so diluted across brands and models that any given one has little hope of return on the "investment" of floor space. I think a retailer would be crazy to sacrifice controllers for hardware instruments, if they had to choose (which they do). 

IMO the only real path forward from here would be a "Keyboard Center," on the analogy of Guitar Center, which might really mean that traditional piano stores should be focusing on adding deep digital inventory, under the theory that shoppers there are already culled as one or another kind of hardware-biased dinosaur.

[niacin]

I ‘be been told at my local music store that most of their sales are online so there’s little point in unboxing things. This is especially the case for pro gear, not so much for beginner digital pianos.

[ElmerJFudd]

This is true.  Even before bizarro world started pro boards on showroom floor were thinning.   Although two shops near me (including one GC) were still carrying Yamaha and Roland’s better stuff.  For Kurzweil or something like a Crumar I’d have to drive a few hours north. But really, I mean I’m looking at wall stands that are empty this week.  There’s places for keyboards that just aren’t there. 

[kaptainkeys]

My local Guitar Center (aside from having poor ratings on yelp) has always had scarce pickings when it comes to floor models.  Most of the time these days it's a couple Juno DS models and maybe a Yamaha MX49, in addition to a wide array of crap digital pianos in the sub $500 range from the likes of Williams and Alesis.  Whatever they have in terms of used keyboard inventory is there as well, last time I went, there was an S90XS (they were asking $1800 for it, I can get a Kronos for not much more in the local used market) and a Nord Lead 2 (for $1200).  The best 'lineup' they ever had when I was in there was a CP88, MODX8, and an RD88, and the RD88 was not even plugged in.

[KuruPrionz]

Bellingham has one of the smallest Guitar Centers in existence, the one in Fresno dwarfed it. Keyboards share a relatively small space with live sound and recording gear. 

They do have controllers hooked up to computers so you can try plugins. 

That said, it's only 25 miles to the Canadian border and eventually the Canadians will return - they were literally 40% or more of the retail economy here. 

Even our strip mall was doing well. 

 

Another 25 miles south is Hugo Helmer's, a privately owned music store. They are huge and have lots of cool stuffs. I try to avoid going there (and GC) because I have too much music gear already and I usually buy used gear. Plus, I don't play keyboards worth mentioning. My Akai MPK25 is more than sufficient and mostly sits. I have an X-Key 25 also but only because a poor student sold it to me for $10, probably beer money. He had the paperwork from when it was new so it wasn't hot. It has a peaceful life. 

[drawback]

Just after the new year there was a great variety of keyboards in the showrooms but just last week when I checked out a YC88, they were down to just a couple of flagships and a bunch of no names ie Williams. Not sure what's going on – I'd be surprised if the local market is that active – so I'm thinking many instruments move down the line to other locations if they're not selling quickly enough here. Hopefully more festivals returning and a lot more club activity sparks some confidence in the retail sector. 

[Stokely]

The problems here in the Orlando area--at least in the Sam Ash and Guitar Center convenient to me--preceded the supply chain woes.  As noted, what they do have is often not plugged into power or into any kind of speaker (I'd bring headphones in any case).   Lots and lots of crap Williams digital home pianos and a fair number of midi controllers...after that it's a wasteland with the occasional "I can't believe they have one of those" models thrown in...an example being the Nord Stage 3 that was in Sam Ash, I hadn't seen a Nord anything there in years.

I do tend to buy used or new from one of those two stores online since they have a return policy that lets me bring it back to the local store.   Also, Guitar Center will often apply a 15% coupon if you ask for a deal, despite every brand under the sun being excluded from the printed coupon....

[timwat]

If you change “showroom” to “runway”, you might have a Lifetime Channel thriller. 

[Tom Williams]

1 hour ago, drawback said:

... and a bunch of no names ie Williams.

For the record: no relation.

[drawback]

10 hours ago, Tom Williams said:

For the record: no relation.

Good thing I didn’t check the drum department.

[ElmerJFudd]

I think some of these shops maybe generate enough income from lessons and walk-ins for misc. (strings, picks, sticks, etc.), perhaps repairs and  trade-ins/used gear to justify the brick and mortar.  I’m guessing they do better with big ticket sales online.  

[AUSSIEKEYS]

I suffer a "Dearth of showrooms"

[Outkaster]

Well GC specifically doesn't want to handle anything 1500 dollars and over as it's inventory sitting there. That's what a guy I know who does backine rentals told me (he works there part time)  When GC was first here it was awesome but that was in 2000.  I literally have to purchase everything site unseen nowadays unless it's Hammond as my buddy is a dealer in NJ.  Once in awhile I can try something from him if he has a demo but generally as keyboard players we are screwed.  Retail has changed so much.

[The Real MC]

18 minutes ago, Outkaster said:

Well GC specifically doesn't want to handle anything 1500 dollars and over as it's inventory sitting there.

 

Yet most of their guitars are over $1500

[GovernorSilver]

Here we have access to Chuck Levin's.   I went there couple of weekends ago to pick up a Wavestate. It's a keys/synth lover playground.  I got to try a Waldorf Quantum,  ASM Hydrasynth Deluxe, and revisited the Prophet 5 and OB-6.   They seem to have Nords of all sizes, various clonehwheels, higher end digital pianos, etc.

 

My new workplace is next to a shopping mall that has a Steinway showroom.  I haven't dared to go in as I'm not a real pianist and there wasn't anyone in there other than a salesperson.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

14 hours ago, Stokely said:

I do tend to buy used or new from one of those two stores online 

 

I havent seen Aussie music shops advertise any second hand online or in-store for decades.

 

Other than a few dedicated used shops. 

 

I enjoyed going into shops to see both and sometimes trading in. 

 

My best was a shop who took my gear on consignment in the late 80s and sold but put every dollar to a new keyboard. Rather than take a cut from the second hand. Even back then that amazed me. 

 

Now you cant find a new selling store who'd even consign let alone trade in

 

Enjoy it while it lasts.

[Anderton]

18 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

The fact is we are dinosaurs. Most music from keyboards is made with controllers now; those who prefer hardware are in a decided minority.

 

Another advantage of software over hardware is that almost all of it lets you check out a free trial before committing to buy. 

 

Perhaps the Line 6 Helix represents the way of the future. It has a hardware version, but also a VST/AU/AAX software plug-in that's preset-compatible with the hardware. So, before committing $1,600 for a hardware Helix, you can download a free trial of the software, kick the tires, and decide if you like its capabilities. Of course that doesn't tell you about the I/O and such, but you can get that kind of info from the manual or spec sheet.

 

Arturia had a somewhat similar concept with the Origin - hardware into which you could load their virtual instruments.

 

In my ideal world, a company would create a MIDI 2.0 hardware keyboard "shell" with plenty of controllers that loaded virtual instrument plug-ins, and auto-configured its control surface for specific plug-ins.

[ElmerJFudd]

20 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

I agree with Tim, these are two similar-looking issues with different causes. 

The fact is we are dinosaurs. Most music from keyboards is made with controllers now; those who prefer hardware are in a decided minority. Given the price range our tools of the trade occupy, we don't tend to like paying retail if we don't have to. And since the internet exists, we don't have to.

Not to mention, there are only a couple of good (or at least generally interchangeable) options across the ranges of controllers, so the floor space you devote to each has a potentially larger customer base. The customer base for hardware boards is so diluted across brands and models that any given one has little hope of return on the "investment" of floor space. I think a retailer would be crazy to sacrifice controllers for hardware instruments, if they had to choose (which they do). 

IMO the only real path forward from here would be a "Keyboard Center," on the analogy of Guitar Center, which might really mean that traditional piano stores should be focusing on adding deep digital inventory, under the theory that shoppers there are already culled as one or another kind of hardware-biased dinosaur.

Do you think so?  I’m not so sure - I think the workstation concept is dying.  An overly expensive board with DAW functionality built in is definitely not attractive to younger generations producing and performing with laptop.  But hardware sub $1k is very popular, especially analog. Digital keys for performance and playing at home has replaced acoustic sales in a big way. Controllers are popular but not many are high quality build. 

[Stokely]

I guess I'm half-dinosaur, half evolved future-man

Live, I prefer hardware for it's simplicity (though perhaps not in the programming that you do beforehand).  There's enough problems that can and do happen with live gigs that I don't want to worry about a computer messing up or lots of cabling and dangly bits.  Yes I know you can rack stuff up, but I just don't want to bring a lot of stuff for the type of gigs I do.

At home, I'm 100% software.  The convenience is just incredible compared to the old midi studio days.  The quality is there and then some IMO.   Admittedly I may have some stress still left over from trying get multi-timbral setups on rack synths and fx units with tiny lcd screens working as they were in a previous session...I don't miss those days at all, other than the cool factor of a room full of gear.  My studio looks like an office now for the most part! 

[ElmerJFudd]

17 minutes ago, Stokely said:

I guess I'm half-dinosaur, half evolved future-man

Live, I prefer hardware for it's simplicity (though perhaps not in the programming that you do beforehand).  There's enough problems that can and do happen with live gigs that I don't want to worry about a computer messing up or lots of cabling and dangly bits.  Yes I know you can rack stuff up, but I just don't want to bring a lot of stuff for the type of gigs I do.

At home, I'm 100% software.  The convenience is just incredible compared to the old midi studio days.  The quality is there and then some IMO.   Admittedly I may have some stress still left over from trying get multi-timbral setups on rack synths and fx units with tiny lcd screens working as they were in a previous session...I don't miss those days at all, other than the cool factor of a room full of gear.  My studio looks like an office now for the most part! 

Right!?  Entirely too neat and tidy.  How are you supposed to create art when everything is so tidy and technology isn’t putting up any road blocks?  You have to suffer hunched over with a flashlight behind you rack to make music that matters!  

[Polychrest]

21 hours ago, drawback said:

Just after the new year there was a great variety of keyboards in the showrooms but just last week when I checked out a YC88, they were down to just a couple of flagships and a bunch of no names

Sounds like Toronto.  I've been jonesing for a while now to test drive a Hammond SK Pro 73.  A couple of weeks ago, when Covid mandates were relaxed, I contacted a sales rep at the big independent retailer that styles itself as Canada's musical instrument superstore.  It used to have the best keyboard brand selection in Toronto.  I've dropped a lot of coin on their products over the years, including an SK 1 73 that I was going to offer as a trade-in.  I asked him if they had an SK Pro floor model in their showroom or any in stock.  His response:  No--we're no longer a Hammond dealership.  Why, I asked?  He didn't know--sounded very apologetic.  They still offer Mojos....

 

So I contacted my trusty local Long and McQuades outlet.  They had it listed as available for order, but according to their inventory system, there wasn't a single SK Pro in any of their retail outlets in Canada.  The sales rep promised to contact the Canadian Hammond distributor and get back to me.  It took the distributor almost a week to tell my L&M guy there were no SK Pro 61s in their warehouse and only one 73--more should be coming in a couple of months.  Order the 73 for me, I told him.

 

He was happy to take my SK-1 73 as a trade-in--gave me a good price.  When I brought it in to be evaluated, I was struck by how empty their keyboard showroom was.  A handful of Rolands, maybe six Yamahas, a Korg SV-2, some Williams, a couple of nondescript used boards.  No red.  My well-preserved old SK-1 would be an aristocrat among them.

[Lazerlike42]

For most of my life I lived in New England and even as recently as the winter of 2020 just before everything went crazy, just about ever Guitar Center I could go to always had a pretty nice display of all sorts of keyboards. The Boston store was the best, but the one I was in the most often was in Natick, MA, and the Nashua and Manchester, NH stores were also well stocked most of the time, along with the Danvers store. Not only did they have lots of new models, but they usually had a good 4 - 5+ very worthwhile used items at any given time.

 

In the summer of 2020 I moved to central Wisconsin and there is just nowhere around at all to go look at anything. The closest GC or any other store I can find that might even have a hope of having any of this stuff is 2 hours away, but their online inventory suggests they never have anything anyways, so I could drive at least 3 hours to Minneapolis to try to find something better I suppose. Everything else around seem to be smaller local style music stores which in some cases might have some Roland console style pianos.

 

If anyone is in the area and knows a place to go better than I (I've only been here two years) I'd love the suggestion. This is especially frustrating right now because I am very interested in a Fantom-0 but have a one important "deal-breaker" question to sort out. It's literally a 10 second black and white thing to check but there's just nowhere to look at one. It's doubly frustrating because I've asked in a whole bunch of forums where I know people own them but I haven't gotten any responses.  Even if I can find an answer on this, it would sure be nice if there were somewhere I could go in the future to look at stuff, get to check out the feel of the keys, etc. 

[MathOfInsects]

6 hours ago, Anderton said:

In my ideal world, a company would create a MIDI 2.0 hardware keyboard "shell" with plenty of controllers that loaded virtual instrument plug-ins, and auto-configured its control surface for specific plug-ins.

Funny enough I just hijacked the "Board or Controller" thread with the same suggestion yesterday.

[EscapeRocks]

Just got back from GC with my brand new Fantom -08 that got in yesterday.

 

I have a guy there who's been running the pro-sound and keyboard rooms fro 10 years.

While he was writing everything up, getting the serial numbers, etc. I walked back into the keys room.

In addition to the more consumer oriented gear, on display, ready to play (plugged in power and speakers) were the following

Fantom -06

Fantom -07

Fantom -08

Yamaha YC88

Yamaha Montage 61

Yamaha Montage 88

Roland RD-88

Among the higher end boards

They still have the new Moog One they've had for almost a year

 

In the Pro-Sound area I was checking out the latest wireless ear systems.

They had the usual lower end stuff, but they also stocked the Top line Shure (PSM900 I think),  Senheiser, etc.

 

They also have a cool room where they have various controller setup on display so you can check them out.

Basically you can tell this individual store has some pro sound and keys people who know what they're doing

 

I'm getting ready to unbox the Fantom -08.  Reports in that thread later

[Lazerlike42]

4 minutes ago, EscapeRocks said:

Just got back from GC with my brand new Fantom -08 that got in yesterday.

 

I have a guy there who's been running the pro-sound and keyboard rooms fro 10 years.

While he was writing everything up, getting the serial numbers, etc. I walked back into the keys room.

In addition to the more consumer oriented gear, on display, ready to play (plugged in power and speakers) were the following

Fantom -06

Fantom -07

Fantom -08

Yamaha YC88

Yamaha Montage 61

Yamaha Montage 88

Roland RD-88

Among the higher end boards

They still have the new Moog One they've had for almost a year

 

In the Pro-Sound area I was checking out the latest wireless ear systems.

They had the usual lower end stuff, but they also stocked the Top line Shure (PSM900 I think),  Senheiser, etc.

 

They also have a cool room where they have various controller setup on display so you can check them out.

Basically you can tell this individual store has some pro sound and keys people who know what they're doing

 

I'm getting ready to unbox the Fantom -08.  Reports in that thread later

I'd love it if you could check if the Supernatural pianos have some kind of string/sympathetic resonance - either by finding parameters for it in the parameter editor or doing the standard "hold some keys and hit others" test - and report it there! I've been asking everywhere to find this out with no responses.

[ProfD]

Whenever I read this type of thread, I feel even more privileged to live in the DC area. 

 

As @GovernorSilver mentioned, we have a great music store here in Chuck Levin's.  It's the musician's mecca.

 

Still, we have about 5 GCs within a 35 mile radius of the city.  The showrooms run the gamut from pathetic to mediocre. 😁😎

[AUSSIEKEYS]

On 4/5/2022 at 11:53 AM, ProfD said:

Whenever I read this type of thread, I feel even more privileged to live in the DC area. 

 

As @GovernorSilver mentioned, we have a great music store here in Chuck Levin's.  It's the musician's mecca.

 

Still, we have about 5 GCs within a 35 mile radius of the city.  The showrooms run the gamut from pathetic to mediocre. 😁😎

 

Yeah Prof itd be so nice to be like that. I often think how great the stores are in US. (Or were?)

 

 

Being originally a Sydney boy (but out in the suburbs) in the old days we were lucky to have heaps of very good keyboard stores i could frequent within an hours drive of the suburbs. They were fantastic I reckon on par with US in those early days.

 

But i reckon by the time the internet started to decimate stores (say 20 years ago) it was a period that I was in less want to chase new keyboards having enough. Also a period of health probs saw me leaving bands more often so i didnt really want spend big bikkies to upgrade. So i stopped checking shops out. (Lets face it our old boards are generally so compentant you dont need to upgrade for the sake of it)

 

So i just kept my old gear to gig with but eventually buying a Casio Privia PX 330 to lighten the load as a one board. Ironically (but fortunately) only available back then at a piano shop in the suburbs not a pro keyboard shop so i may have missed the decimation of many Sydney shops.

 

7 years ago i moved to Melbourne and the need to check out light weight gear (health deteriating further) reared its ugly head when i played in a band down here. I really needed to see if i could accept the feel of a semi weighted keybed of the current offerings after playing a weighted for years.

 

It was getting very hard to lug a keyboard but also i ended up supplying my PA although lightweight i had a few trips from car.

 

So even lugging my fairly lightweight casio privia (11 kg plus bag) leaves me gasping for breath when i reach the stage. So lighter keyboards are being considered.

 

I lightened my keyboard stand from 11kg down to 2.9kg with a Stay Slim but that had to be ordered in as these are rare in Aussie. So a lightweight keyboard is next.

 

Although im not gigging now next band (if i havent given up) ill avoid being the PA guy (i hope) but the last band had no idea about running their old fashioned heavy PA so i purchased second hand and cheaply a lightweight alternative that sounded so much better hence i ended up the PA guy but ended up stuck with lugging it (well i needed to look after it). 

 

So although only an hour from the city proper (a major city) its still hard to find any store closer to my location that has any floor stock.

 

Youd think a Numa Cocal 2x or a Korg Angry (kross) for top tier would be easy to find to try out. Nope. Sure there is a store advertising them in stock withing 30 minutes drive which i have bought from (the lighweight used pa speakers and a mic etc) ..great but only online nothing on floor. Why even have a shop if you cant have stuff on the floor you say you stock. Yeah i know droppshipping from importer.

 

I refuse to buy to try too. I have an ethical dilemna with that but also aussie shops dont offer the same return policies US shops offer. Unless the item is dead they really in my mind dont cater for change of mind returns (my ethical dilemma). I dont blame them especially with our high freight costs. So i am fine with that as the hassle to do that for me is beyond my fathoming.

 

So here i live in Australias second biggest city and there are few stores outside of driving into the city propper (no close parking as that creates a problem for me as i cant walk large distances anymore let alone carry a purchase in a box). There are possibly more shops i dont know about being new to the area but if so i havent found many advertised. 

 

Frequent your shops for if you dont you may loose places with actual floor stock.

 

Sorry another of my long tomes.

[Adam Burgess]

I'm in the Middle East.

Can try any amount of Yammy PSRs, Korg arrangers etc.

I bought a Nord Stage 2 88 years ago (grey import) - almost an acceptable price.

 

Also grabbed an original Kronos 61 soon after they arrived when I retired my Extreme. 

These official Korg guys were amazed when I showed them how to use the USB socket to use an EWI as a controller

as the sax player wanted to try one.

The same guys actually called me for advice how to get the parts for my own keyboard once.
 

The official Gibraltar distro guys didn't want to take my $1000 USD when I put in my order for a crazy stand.

The Roland guys are so lax, it's unbelievable. Asked to demo an RD2000. Never managed to get from their warehouse to the store even after waiting a week or so.

You guys are so lucky!!

One quick edit… Roland, Korg, and Yamaha I cannot get from Thomann, Sweetwater, etc…
I have to rely on the local distro. And it's crap!