New Studiologic Numa X Piano

[CHarrell]

Scott, you raise good points, but I remain incredulous that Casio marked up these models so much from their predecessors for so insubstantial an upgrade in playing experience. Seeing excellent players praise these boards make me wonder if the problem is me, though.

[kanefsky]

26 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

Scott, you raise good points, but I remain incredulous that Casio marked up these models so much from their predecessors for so insubstantial an upgrade in playing experience. Seeing excellent players praise these boards make me wonder if the problem is me, though.

 

Bringing out a new model at a higher price is one way to increase prices without just raising prices on the older models.  Looking at the Wayback Machine, Sweetwater was charging $849 for the PX-S3000 three years ago and the PX-S3100 is $879 today.  If you simply adjusted for overall US inflation the PX-S3000 would be over $1000 today (possibly more since chips have experienced more shortages that most other things).  So bringing out a significantly improved model for $1199 isn't that bad.

 

For comparison, the Kawai VPC1 -- which hasn't been updated in 10 years -- went from $1899 to $2499 in the same time period.

[CHarrell]

4 minutes ago, kanefsky said:

If you simply adjusted for overall US inflation the PX-S3000 would be over $1000 today (possibly more since chips have experienced more shortages that most other things).  So bringing out a significantly improved model for $1199 isn't that bad.

 

But the 3100 was the top of that generation, where the equivalent here is the 7000, which is almost 3x the current cost of the 3100. And after playing it last night, I wouldn't with good conscience tell people it's worth that gulf (though the piano and Rhodes did sound good). I really wanted to love it, especially after the praise I've seen it get from a number of clearly skilled musicians.

[CHarrell]

On 8/9/2023 at 11:15 PM, CyberGene said:

The Numa X pianos sound much better than Pianoteq IMO but I’m notorious for disliking PT. I wouldn’t bother with external hardware/software pianos when the onboard pianos are more than serviceable. Same for Rhodes.

 

I didn't comment on this but in my testing these past few days I am really impressed by how well calibrated the pianos are to the TP110.

[kanefsky]

1 hour ago, CHarrell said:

 

But the 3100 was the top of that generation, where the equivalent here is the 7000, which is almost 3x the current cost of the 3100. And after playing it last night, I wouldn't with good conscience tell people it's worth that gulf (though the piano and Rhodes did sound good). I really wanted to love it, especially after the praise I've seen it get from a number of clearly skilled musicians.

 

The 6000/7000 are a whole different thing.  It's fine if you don't think it's worth paying the extra for the improved construction, styling, amps, speakers, sounds, cool stand/pedal system, etc. but some people do.  On high-end DPs and APs they charge a lot of extra money just for a glossy vs. a satin finish with no other differences whatsoever.  People pay a fortune to upgrade their cars with cooler-looking paint colors, wheels, interior finishes, etc.

 

It's also fine if you think the 3100 is a better value than the 5000 at today's prices, but you're essentially getting a big discount on the 3100 because it's an older obsolete model.  Otherwise, the price for the 3100 would be more like $1100 if it followed the same trajectory as the VPC1.  A lot of people like to take advantage of such closeout bargains and other people prefer to buy the latest model, figuring they can keep it longer before feeling the need to upgrade again.  There are also a lot of respected reviewers who think the action on the 3100 had significant flaws and that the 5000 is a big improvement.

 

 

[HammondDave]

27 minutes ago, kanefsky said:

 

The 6000/7000 are a whole different thing.  It's fine if you don't think it's worth paying the extra for the improved construction, styling, amps, speakers, sounds, cool stand/pedal system, etc. but some people do.  On high-end DPs and APs they charge a lot of extra money just for a glossy vs. a satin finish with no other differences whatsoever.  People pay a fortune to upgrade their cars with cooler-looking paint colors, wheels, interior finishes, etc.

 

It's also fine if you think the 3100 is a better value than the 5000 at today's prices, but you're essentially getting a big discount on the 3100 because it's an older obsolete model.  Otherwise, the price for the 3100 would be more like $1100 if it followed the same trajectory as the VPC1.  A lot of people like to take advantage of such closeout bargains and other people prefer to buy the latest model, figuring they can keep it longer before feeling the need to upgrade again.  There are also a lot of respected reviewers who think the action on the 3100 had significant flaws and that the 5000 is a big improvement.

 

 

Please Stop hijacking this thread and start a “Casio had their heads up their ….” one. 

[CHarrell]

2 hours ago, HammondDave said:

Please Stop hijacking this thread and start a “Casio had their heads up their ….” one. 

 

Sorry, I recognized I hijacked the thread and with my last post I wanted to steer back on topic.

[AnotherScott]

7 hours ago, CHarrell said:

Scott, you raise good points, but I remain incredulous that Casio marked up these models so much from their predecessors for so insubstantial an upgrade in playing experience. Seeing excellent players praise these boards make me wonder if the problem is me, though.

In talking about the possible benefits of reduced size, I was actually comparing the entire series of "skinny" models (going back to the CDP-S100/PX-S1000 etc.) to the ones that came before, not the new slim models to their immediate predecessors, which are likewise slim.

 

5 hours ago, kanefsky said:

It's also fine if you think the 3100 is a better value than the 5000 at today's prices, but you're essentially getting a big discount on the 3100 because it's an older obsolete model.  Otherwise, the price for the 3100 would be more like $1100 if it followed the same trajectory as the VPC1.  A lot of people like to take advantage of such closeout bargains

I don't think the 3100 is obsolete or being closed out. These later models are, I believe, higher end additions to the line, not replacements.

 

Bringing it back to the Numa X, though, I don't really see the comparably priced Casios as direct competitors. As I said, I don't think these Casios are really aimed at giggers (at least outside of piano soloists), I think the Numa is, with its  more live-friendly interface, 5-pin MIDI, etc. 

[RandyFF]

I have really fallen for the X 73, it’s like they finally made my board.  The immediate hands on for mixing 4 internal/external sounds plus USB Audio is liberating, I can finally, easily achieve the kind of mixing that is fast and effective, sometimes live, giving me the power to quickly create Multis.

 

But today I have a problem with the keybed, it suddenly has become super noisy.  I can hear the loud CLUNK of each key, easily 2-3 times louder than before.

 

> Just got this board 2 weeks ago, and I didn’t notice the keybed itself being that loud.  But today, returning from a trip with it, its thunking was super noticeable and objectionable as I was playing soft-medium loud.

 

> The trip: just packed it in my plush Gator 61 note soft case with straps, fits easily.  Transported it 200 miles to the high desert for a few days, where it didn’t get much past 90 degrees, and was always inside a house. It was transported to my van in an upright position.

> Just trying to figure out what about this trip caused the keybed to become 2-3 times as noisy!

 

Thanks!

[CyberGene]

@RandyFF drop an email to Gianni. If you haven’t yet communicated, just use the Studiologic website form to contact the support and you will get an answer from Gianni on email. 

[Artomas]

It might be related to the humidity change? Even my all-plastic Yamaha GHS action is affected by relatively sudden humidity changes - it gets extra clunky. Hopefully that's what it is. Another suggestion is, if it was leaning up in one particular direction for a while... try leaning it in the exact opposite way for a bit. I know that sounds kinda dumb, but it's an easy thing to try, while waiting for a response from the company.

[Artomas]

I'm lurking in this thread, and on this forum more lately, because I want to replace my old P-115 with a YC, CP, CK, X, GT, RD, etc, and doing my due diligence. So, every time I see one of these thread pop up, I'm on it!🤣

[mobi]

3 hours ago, RandyFF said:

But today I have a problem with the keybed, it suddenly has become super noisy.  I can hear the loud CLUNK of each key, easily 2-3 times louder than before.

 

 

Hope the TP110 doesn't have the same issues as the TP100,

 

The TP100 has an awful reputation for noises and clunky keys after some weeks/months of use,

 

 

 

 

 

[kenheeter]

Make sure the Numa is sitting on a flat surface on it's feet.  I had a noise problem with a particular keyboard stand that pressed up on the bottom of the Numa's case.

 

[RandyFF]

18 hours ago, CyberGene said:

@RandyFF drop an email to Gianni. If you haven’t yet communicated, just use the Studiologic website form to contact the support and you will get an answer from Gianni on email. 

Thanks, I've heard he's very responsive

 

12 hours ago, kenheeter said:

Make sure the Numa is sitting on a flat surface on it's feet.  I had a noise problem with a particular keyboard stand that pressed up on the bottom of the Numa's case.

Hmmmm... was that one of the Numa's X Pianos?  With the steel? case on the Piano X? I wonder if that would be an issue compared to the 2cx.

 

15 hours ago, mobi said:

Hope the TP110 doesn't have the same issues as the TP100,

 

The TP100 has an awful reputation for noises and clunky keys after some weeks/months of use,

 

 

 

 

 

WOW WOW- both of those boards sound awful!  Thanks for the fix-it link!

 

16 hours ago, Artomas said:

It might be related to the humidity change? Even my all-plastic Yamaha GHS action is affected by relatively sudden humidity changes - it gets extra clunky. Hopefully that's what it is. Another suggestion is, if it was leaning up in one particular direction for a while... try leaning it in the exact opposite way for a bit. I know that sounds kinda dumb, but it's an easy thing to try, while waiting for a response from the company.

Yes, change in humidity was what I thought the most likely.  I've even heard about how you're supposed to store some keyboards horizontally.

[RandyFF]

THANK YOU GUYS!

 

Luckily the thunking of the keybed is not happening today!  It's back to it's audible but acceptable levels I was used to.

[RandyFF]

QUESTION:

1. Are there other forums that have dedicated sections for Studiologic boards? Or other forums like this that have relevant threads?  I know PianoWorld has some threads, but haven't seen much else.

 

2. Where to find more Programs?  Would be helpful if there was somewhere to share programs.

-----

 

Am finding the ways of creating Programs truly inspiring.  There's a smartness built into the OS/UI, making the process itself part of the sound insofar as:

> If you think/hear it, you can swiftly create it, and in turn the musical imagination responds to this lively evolution of sound in real time, and the groove-zone begins-

 

Had a great time playing simple piano pieces over and again while auditioning the piano samples, including the new ones.  Am still coming to grips with how different they sound to the Kawai ES920, haven't found any Numa pianos that, for me, has the universal, balanced, classic pianistic sound that the ES920 does so gracefully and completely with the SK-EX.

 

Tonight I auditioned the large variety as I tried all the APs, but the only one that seemed to have universal appeal/application was USA Grand.  And a fantastic pairing for it turned out to be Saloon. I find many of the Numa 'Grands' to have a somewhat upright sound, with characteristics like the thickening, slightly discordant low end.

 

What sounds are you enjoying the most?  Does the UI inspire the sound creation process for you as well?

[FuzzyPants]

 

[CHarrell]

14 minutes ago, FuzzyPants said:

 

 

This is the first time I've seen a "How It's Made" for electronic keyboards, this is so badass.

[DeltaJockey]

Very enlightening!

 

I've always been impressed with the personal disposition of Fatar, despite being a moderately large business, they seem to still have a humble family business attitude, and are happy to share the intricacies of their daily operation with us mere mortal public. After seeing all these goodies, it makes me want to buy one of everything😀

[RandyFF]

Is the Studiologic Mixface designed to integrate with the Numa X Pianos like it does with the SL-88, their controller boards? 

[DeltaJockey]

21 minutes ago, RandyFF said:

Is the Studiologic Mixface designed to integrate with the Numa X Pianos like it does with their controller boards? 

It's my understanding that it is. It plugs into the DAW not the keyboard, so the Numa X 88 pianos having identical top panel space and case shape, I see it sitting there just the same as on the SL controllers. Not sure if there is enough space on the 73's. Perhaps a 73 owner would know. Have been considering one for my GT, but some reviews say the controls are a bit wobbly. Still might get one though.

[RandyFF]

QUESTIONS:

1. Will the 3 pedal SLDP-3 from Studiologic do more than the standard Una Corda - Sostenuto - Sustain?  I'd be really motivated to pick it up, could be used for up/down for fx, programs, etc.  It's nice that the sustain pedal part of it is a continuous controller.  

 

2. What pedals work with this board?  A M-Audio sustain didn't work at all, and a Kawai pedal just sustained everything, depressed or not

 

 

Would be sweet to have the SLDP-3 (which can only go in Pedal 3): it'd do sustain as well as do two increment/decrement switches.  This would leave Pedal 1 and Pedal 2 still available- 

[kenheeter]

I have a SLDP-3 and it works exactly as you describe. Pedal 1 sustain, pedal 2 and 3 program up/down. I think this feature was added in the second firmware update. It's a very substantial pedal and well worth the cost.

 

[HammondDave]

11 hours ago, RandyFF said:

QUESTIONS:

1. Will the 3 pedal SLDP-3 from Studiologic do more than the standard Una Corda - Sostenuto - Sustain?  I'd be really motivated to pick it up, could be used for up/down for fx, programs, etc.  It's nice that the sustain pedal part of it is a continuous controller.  

 

2. What pedals work with this board?  A M-Audio sustain didn't work at all, and a Kawai pedal just sustained everything, depressed or not

 

 

Would be sweet to have the SLDP-3 (which can only go in Pedal 3): it'd do sustain as well as do two increment/decrement switches.  This would leave Pedal 1 and Pedal 2 still available- 

Korg and Yamaha sustain pedals work fine. 

[RandyFF]

Thanks you guys!  Even as much as I'd love to get either the music stand or magnetic plate next, that sustain pedal is next on my list!  I enjoy the pedal that came with the Numa Piano, it's not super stiff like my Kawai 3 pedal.

 

I suppose I should be glad that they at least have the music stand as an option, there's a fair number of boards out there that don't have them, even as a paid option.  Seems like a reasonable way of keeping costs down for the initial purchase, charge for the music stand.

 

With the Magnetic plate, I suppose that it'll just hang off of the X 73 quite a bit, should still work?  Am loving this board so much that I'm wishing now I'd gotten the X 88!  I find the pianos for the most part are pretty clear/not-muddy in the low end, would love to have just a few more notes.  If I was designing a 73 note board it'd be from C-C! No contest, or from C to E, a 76 note board.  I wonder if most people are like me, they want and need those lower notes more than the highest.

 

 

[kanefsky]

1 minute ago, RandyFF said:

With the Magnetic plate, I suppose that it'll just hang off of the X 73 quite a bit, should still work?  Am loving this board so much that I'm wishing now I'd gotten the X 88!  I find the pianos for the most part are pretty clear/not-muddy in the low end, would love to have just a few more notes.  If I was designing a 73 note board it'd be from C-C! No contest, or from C to E, a 76 note board.  I wonder if most people are like me, they want and need those lower notes more than the highest.

 

The Magnetic Computer Plate is only listed as being compatable with the X 88 and the GT: https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/magnetic-computer-plate/specs/

 

The concept is so cool, at first glance you might think the rail system would allow you to mount the plate anywhere along the length of the keyboard, such as putting a laptop right over the center of the keyboard.  But in reality I think you're limited to mounting it at the edge of the keyboard where there's a space big enough that no buttons/knobs/switches will interfere with it.  I don't have one but that's my understanding.  That's also the reason it won't work with the 73 I think.

 

I don't see why they couldn't design it to float an inch or so higher so that you could at least position it anywhere even if it meant you'd have to move it to access some of the controls.

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, RandyFF said:

If I was designing a 73 note board it'd be from C-C! No contest, or from C to E, a 76 note board.  I wonder if most people are like me, they want and need those lower notes more than the highest.

Yeah, for a hammer-action downstairs board those lower notes are more useful. (Isn't C-E 77 notes?) I often find myself wanting that low D. However ...  I know that if I had a low D and C, I'd want the Bb. Perhaps an A-C 76-note board?

 

Cheers, Mike

[RandyFF]

1 hour ago, stoken6 said:

Yeah, for a hammer-action downstairs board those lower notes are more useful. (Isn't C-E 77 notes?) I often find myself wanting that low D. However ...  I know that if I had a low D and C, I'd want the Bb. Perhaps an A-C 76-note board?

 

Cheers, Mike

Well, yes, all the way down to the A like an 88 noter would be nice, but if keeping it a shorter board, going at least to the C would be the perfect compromise.  I don't often miss below the C, but esp the D and sometimes the C are missed, just depends on the sound, if it's mud or not.

 

Yes, C to E would be 77 notes.  I would think that distinguishing yourself as being the only low C on the market of 73 note boards would be worth the trouble, I know many feel the same as I do, those low notes are more sorely missed than the high ones.  Though I suppose that there are manufacturing considerations that I wouln't know about.

[RandyFF]

3 hours ago, kanefsky said:

 

The Magnetic Computer Plate is only listed as being compatable with the X 88 and the GT: https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/magnetic-computer-plate/specs/

 

The concept is so cool, at first glance you might think the rail system would allow you to mount the plate anywhere along the length of the keyboard, such as putting a laptop right over the center of the keyboard.  But in reality I think you're limited to mounting it at the edge of the keyboard where there's a space big enough that no buttons/knobs/switches will interfere with it.  I don't have one but that's my understanding.  That's also the reason it won't work with the 73 I think.

 

I don't see why they couldn't design it to float an inch or so higher so that you could at least position it anywhere even if it meant you'd have to move it to access some of the controls.

Thanks for the link- I just assumed it would work- seems like it could just hang off the end more than other boards.  Besides wanting the lowest notes, this is just one more reason I wish I'd bought the 88.