New Studiologic Numa X Piano

[bjosko]

I got mine 73 yesterday, and no issues, preloaded with the latest firmware.
A funky rompler 😉

I need to get around it a little bit more, but so far, I am impressed, a couple minor cons, some wishes for further improvement/changes  and a lot of pros.

The keys is strange in a good way, short travel, but fast and snappy, and with fine dynamic after I changed the velocity setting ( Hard in my case].

If I later decide to remove my Hammond from my living room, I might consider the 88 GT.

[b3plyr]

17 minutes ago, bjosko said:

 

If I later decide to remove my Hammond from my living room, I might consider the 88 GT.

Kinda my approach. I have the Piano X GT 88 for gigs, and will likely get the GT for my studio. Can transfer patches, etc. Glad you like your 73. You are right - it is a funky board, in a good way.

[HammondDave]

30 minutes ago, bjosko said:

.

If I later decide to remove my Hammond from my living room, I might consider the 88 GT.

why would anyone remove a Hammond from their living room?  

[b3plyr]

12 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

why would anyone remove a Hammond from their living room?  

Or bedroom. Excellent point!

[bjosko]

Actually, when playing alone, I am more into piano. I have never been able to entertain myself with a Hammond alone, so it is mostly collecting dust. When with my band, 90 % is on the Hammond ( clone). It will not be gigged again, but could be used at rehearsal, and I miss it. A clone is a clone, and have its advantages like overdrive at lower volumes and reverb, but nothing scream like a Hammond on a good Leslie.

[AnotherScott]

Correcting something I said earlier about the ease of integrating external sounds on a Montage/MODX or Fantom/Fantom-0...

 

On 6/2/2022 at 3:59 PM, AnotherScott said:

let's say you created a "Jump" patch in your OB-xD app. You'd create a program in your keyboard that consisted of a name (e.g. "Jump OB-xD"), the Program Change that needed to be sent to your iPad which would recall that sound, the Channel that Program Change needs to be sent over, and the category (e.g. "Synth"). Then when you call up your Synth category on your keyboard, you would see all the board's available internal Synth programs as usual (factory or user), but you would also see your externally available ones, selectable just as easily as the internal ones. So then you could select (and mix-and-match) your internal and external sounds with equal ease, with no apparent distinction between them. This is in contrast to the typical approach, where either you have to enter all that same MIDI information every single time you want to use a given external sound, or you have to make a copy of some existing combination that already has the external sound(s) you want to use, or go through some more complicated procedure to locate and copy something out of one combination (combi/multi/setup/performance/etc.) into another. Those are all methods that are relatively clumsy compared to simply choosing an external user sound exactly the way you'd choose an internal one, as you can on a MODX (saving a named Part that contains nothing but an external Zone) or a Fantom (similar).

 

This is true on the Montage/MODX, but as I've worked with it further, does not appear to be the case on the Fantom/Fantom-0 after all. The external Program Change info is saved in a Zone, not as a User Tone, and is not independently savable/recallable (it's saved as part of a Scene). So it is not as easily re-used as "regular" sounds are. Advantage Yamaha.

[b3plyr]

Update on my Piano X. As I mentioned before, the power switch has given me trouble. It is a momentary contact switch vs the typical latch switches you see on most keyboards. Normally you would expect the advantage to be that it would last longer, although it does take some additional electronic circuitry. Anyway, my switch has been totally inconsistent. I have to push multiple times, holding for different times, to get it to startup. I'm not upset, as Studiologic  (Gianni)provided great support and I'm ruling this as a fluke. So I will return the keyboard, and get a replacement.

 

On the very good side, I agree with all of HammonDave's review. The sounds are really good, the TP110 is a big difference from the TP100, and the end result is a much more responsive keybed. In fact, I have a Nord Grand here and the Studiologic seems to have better dynamics - have to do more testing. Of course this is preliminary information, as I haven't spent much time with the board. The interface is really cool, too.

 

BTW, I don't mind the external power supply - the 31 pound weight of the Piano X is great!

[Amaryllis]

quick question about the USB MIDI interface on the Numa... if i connect another keyboard to the Numa's MIDI In, and then connect a computer to the Numa's USB port, can i use the second keyboard to play a VST on the computer via the Numa?  in other words, i want the MIDI data from the MIDI In port to go back out via the USB port, as if it was a MIDI Thru.  the manual briefly mentions a MIDI Merge feature that seems like it might do this, but doesn't go into any detail about it.  

[HSS]

I have a Numa Compact 2x that has a few AP and EP's with the same names as some of the AP's and EP's in the newer Numa X stage pianos (e.g. Japanese Grand, German Grand, EP MK I and II). 

 

Does anyone with first-hand knowledge know if the AP's and EP's in the new Numa X stage pianos are improved / better than the similarly named ones in the Numa Compact 2 / 2x ? 

 

Also, I noticed that the new free Numa Player app includes some APs and EP's with same names as those in the Numa X and Compact 2 / 2x keyboards.  When I have some time in the next few days, I plan to download the Numa player and compare its sounds to the similarly named ones in my Numa Compact 2x.  I suspect that Numa Player's sounds will probably be lower quality than those in the Numa Compact 2x (and the Numa X).  Otherwise, why would Studiologic offer the Numa Player app for free? 

[kenheeter]

The APs in the Numa Player are not the same as the Numa X but they're very good.

[FuzzyPants]

I didn't see a link to this video posted here yet, and thought it was a great play through.  If you turn on closed captions, there's an English translation.  

 

[obxa]

Anyone have luck  finding a suitable case for the NumaX 73? 

 

Best I could find is the Yamaha Modx7 case (which I had specifically bought for my Nord Stage 73)- still a wee bit too wide on the sides, and 76 note slims are even wider. 

 

This Roland looked promising: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CBB76S--roland-roland-black-series-76-note-slim-keyboard-bag

 

 Does anyone own the Korg Krome case? 

Thanks!

 

 RE: the video above, always love that Music Track  guy.   Though he almost played "Do it again" at least ten times every time he found a rhodes patch.

[bjosko]

What about the Gator TSA 61 ?
I have one here, will try it tomorrow, but ouch, they have been expensive lately.

Someone have had luck with some inexpensive Pelican weapon cases wher you cut the foam to shape yourself.

[obxa]

2 hours ago, bjosko said:

What about the Gator TSA 61 ?
I have one here, will try it tomorrow, but ouch, they have been expensive lately.

Someone have had luck with some inexpensive Pelican weapon cases wher you cut the foam to shape yourself.

Thanks BJosko- I'm looking for soft gig bag style for local ( my car)  and occasional short run out of town (van/tour bus/trailer). 

 

I remember seeing a facebook post about folks using Pelican style rifle cases from Walmart, thanks-  that might be a solution.  Still got old Anvil cases, but overkill for the kind of  gigs I do these days.  Cheers

 

 

[Brad Kaenel]

8 hours ago, obxa said:

Anyone have luck  finding a suitable case for the NumaX 73? 

Gator GKB-61 Slim

 

Pics from earlier in this thread:

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/180089-new-studiologic-numa-x-piano/?do=findComment&comment=2898913

[bjosko]

Jups, I got the 61 Slim with mine. Tight fit, but it can be there, and $ 80 from my dealer. 
Since you wrote case, I thought you meant a Flight Case. 

[kenheeter]

Levy's 61 note case fits my Numa X 73 perfectly.

 

[obxa]

Thank you all- I also ordered a "demo"  Slim 61 from Sweetwater after seeing Kraft Music includes that case as part of their Numa73  package. 

 

  I completely missed Brad's post, thanks for the link.   Sorry,  I really need to read all of  this (great) thread from the beginning!! 

 

Fedex came Saturday (along with the Modx7 case) while I was literally heading out the door.   Was having a hard time squeezing the Numa in the slim, so just left it in the temp 88 case I had.     I'll give it another shot-  after seeing Brad's picture and Bjosko's confirmation that it's indeed tight. 

 

BTW-   If  it helps anyone, the Modx7 works great for the Nord Stage 73.   I love velour, but just couldn't justify spending $300+  for their soft bag.   True to us keyboard players form, I spent more on cases than I made on the gig.

 

Thanks guys. 

 

[stoken6]

20 minutes ago, obxa said:

True to us keyboard players form, I spent more on cases than I made on the gig.

"Musician" (definition) someone who drives a $5000 instrument in a $500 car to a $50 gig.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[red.stone]

I have NXP73 for a few months.
It is my first hammer action key and I love it.
I use mostly piano sounds which are great.
I like key bad feel, but what surprised me is key velocity inconsistency.
Some keys (F5 and F#5) sounds noticeable louder.
My measurement showed about 10 points difference, which is not so much
but problem is that velocity influences not only volume of tone
but also brightness if you play around that that specific "decision level",
then F5 key sounds noticeable brighter - especially using JpnPiano.
Or better say, it is easier to get brighter tone on that F5 key.
Tweaking KBD SENSITIVITY doesn't help here. It will just move this "decision level"
What I would need is to set key balance for each key.
Irony is that this feature is implemented on cheaper controllers (SL 73,...)
but not in NXP73. 
I contacted support (they are very communicative and patient)
and they said that NXP doesn't need such feature as "balance process has been highly improved on the NXPs"
Does any owner of NXP observed something similar ?
May be something happens during shipment (as they said),
and I should contact repair service. (closest is in neighboring country)
But that would probably mean that I will be 30 days without my NXP and that would be the pain for me.
That is reason why I am trying to live with it.
 

[b3plyr]

18 minutes ago, red.stone said:

I have NXP73 for a few months.
It is my first hammer action key and I love it.
I use mostly piano sounds which are great.
 

Have you tried different pianos? That would rule out a sampling issue. BTW, I have an 88 and have not noticed this problem. Good luck, it is a great board!

[red.stone]

17 hours ago, b3plyr said:

Have you tried different pianos? That would rule out a sampling issue. BTW, I have an 88 and have not noticed this problem. Good luck, it is a great board!

Yes, sure, It is noticeable also on GerGrand and UsaGrand.

That was also my first suspicion.

There is also one way how to verify sampling issue - simply transpose one octave down and play one octave up (F6 key instead of F5).

Anyway thanks for tip.

[Al Coda]

20 hours ago, b3plyr said:

That would rule out a sampling issue

 

I depends on which role the samples play in Numa X´s acoustic- and electric- modelling technology.

In most physical modelling systems, samples act as a reference and in opposite to a "sampling instrument" were the multi-samples are responsible for the main sonic result.

It´s a bit unclear if pianos in NUMA X are multisampled and only the parameters called "Tone, Strings Resonance, Duplex, Damper Noise" (acoustic modelling) and "Hammer, Offset, Tine, Damper Noise" (electric modelling) are Studiologic´s "physical modelling".

At least not many parameters available for the user when comparing w/ software like AAS Lounge Lizard or Modartt Pianoteq.

I also tried Numa X player software and was very disappointed.

Editing doesn´t change much, especially for EPs where all the notes become duller and quieter the more you go into the upper keyboard ranges.

I really hpoe this is not the case w/ the real instrument.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

[Al Coda]

On 8/10/2022 at 7:24 PM, kenheeter said:

The APs in the Numa Player are not the same as the Numa X but they're very good.

 

I´m disappointed all across the sound pallette from Numa Player.

You own a Numa X73, right ?

How do you rate Numa player electric piano sounds when compared to the Numa X ?

 

☺️

 

A.C.

[b3plyr]

9 hours ago, Al Coda said:

 

I depends on which role the samples play in Numa X´s acoustic- and electric- modelling technology.

In most physical modelling systems, samples act as a reference and in opposite to a "sampling instrument" were the multi-samples are responsible for the main sonic result.

It´s a bit unclear if pianos in NUMA X are multisampled and only the parameters called "Tone, Strings Resonance, Duplex, Damper Noise" (acoustic modelling) and "Hammer, Offset, Tine, Damper Noise" (electric modelling) are Studiologic´s "physical modelling".

At least not many parameters available for the user when comparing w/ software like AAS Lounge Lizard or Modartt Pianoteq.

I also tried Numa X player software and was very disappointed.

Editing doesn´t change much, especially for EPs where all the notes become duller and quieter the more you go into the upper keyboard ranges.

I really hpoe this is not the case w/ the real instrument.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

Actually the only real reference in a true modeled piano is the real piano you compare it to. Physical modeling is just that - a mathematical representation of a physical process (flute, piano, etc.) that is executed in hardware or software. Studiologic has told me the acoustic pianos are samples with modeling for some of the parameters you mentioned. They do use multisamples. I asked if the keyboard had enough horsepower to physically model the acoustic piano. The answer was yes, but they feel samples with the modeled parameter are the best bet. Only the EPs are physically modeled. 

 

I understand your disappointment with Numa player. I'm pretty sure they don't use the same samples as the Piano X. And the horsepower is likely not enough on some computers to do the same processing's the Numa X Piano 

[Al Coda]

17 hours ago, b3plyr said:

I understand your disappointment with Numa player. I'm pretty sure they don't use the same samples as the Piano X. And the horsepower is likely not enough on some computers to do the same processing's the Numa X Piano

 

The opposite is the case.

All modern computers have more CPU power than any combination of DSP chips in hardware keyboard instruments deliver.

 

A flagship like Korg Kronos is a quad core Intel Atom (netbook processor),- which does the job !

 

Now, when you look at p.ex. Purgatory Creek´s sample libraries for NI Kontakt, Korg Kronos/Nautilus, Kurzweil Forte and Yammi Montage/MODX,- you´ll recognize the Kontakt versions offer more velocity layers for each multisample,- 20 layers for the Rhodes Mk V p.ex..

The instrument versions are all crippled, at least because of available memory size.

Any computer offers way more RAM and has to do more work when processing more layers while streaming from disk.

 

So,- Numa Player could be way better than it is while runnig on an entry level laptop offering enough RAM.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

[D. Gauss]

On 9/10/2022 at 5:39 AM, Al Coda said:

 

I´m disappointed all across the sound pallette from Numa Player.

 

 

perhaps ask for your money back?  

[Al Coda]

35 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

perhaps ask for your money back? 

 

 

I still wonder if some of these samples made it into the Numa X pianos, you know ... ... and I don´t have a chance to check one out in my area.

Doesn´t mean I´m thinking ALL of the Numa X samples are identical w/ the Numa Player samples.

OTOH, I cannot imagine they have different samples for everything.

It´s not my experience w/ hardware companies.

 

Are EPs in Numa Player sampled or are they physically modelled too ?

If they are physically modelled,- I doubt Studiologic uses different algorithms for software player and hardware instrument.

 

A.C.

[b3plyr]

On 9/11/2022 at 3:00 PM, Al Coda said:

 

 

I still wonder if some of these samples made it into the Numa X pianos, you know ... ... and I don´t have a chance to check one out in my area.

Doesn´t mean I´m thinking ALL of the Numa X samples are identical w/ the Numa Player samples.

OTOH, I cannot imagine they have different samples for everything.

It´s not my experience w/ hardware companies.

 

Are EPs in Numa Player sampled or are they physically modelled too ?

If they are physically modelled,- I doubt Studiologic uses different algorithms for software player and hardware instrument.

 

A.C.

 

First, the Numa X and Numa Player do not sound the same. Here is how I tested. I downloaded Numa Player to my iPad Pro. I then connected it to my Numa X by USB Midi. This allows the midi commands to be sent to the iPad and the audio returned to the audio mixer on the Numa X. Then, I assigned one zone to a Numa X Piano and another to the Midi connected to the iPad and Numa Player. Pianos chosen were the same. I then was able to A/B test the two simply by alternating zones. The result - the Numa X sounded appreciably better. Of course this is my opinion, but it does make sense.

 

Regarding some of your other questions,I sent Studiologic this question: "A number of people have asked if the samples in the Numa Player are the same as those in the Numa X Piano. They have also asked if the sound engine is identical to the Numa X except for being implemented in software? In other words, is Numa Player a Numa X in a computer or iOS device?"

 

And  here is the gist of the response I received from Gianni at Studiologic. He gave me permission to post as I see fit, so I cut and have pasted his response below.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"The sources used to make all sounds are the same as far as original proprietary recordings, opmized samples, tracks mixing, audio mastering etc.

 

The two Technologies are different: the NXP is based on our hardware chips (with a lot of custom software DSP etc) while the Player is based on a pure software engine.

 

On the Acoustic Piano sounds (I made for both) also the Strings Resonance and related effects are based on different technologies, but they share the same structure and processing.

 

A substantiale different might be the EP physical models of the NXP, that in the Player are made with a different.simpler technolog, thus keeping similar controls for Sound and Tine, a specific Damper noises etc).

 

The same concept applies on the other sounds (Strings, Keys etc) where I used the same sources and in some case exactly the same samples.

 

Also the FX are not identical, since the NXP FX are based on a proprietary hardware and DSP design while the Player has different algorithms, but we kept (trust 🙂 our feeling.

 

In other words, the ingredients might be different, but the the recipies are quite simiilar and we also try to make the best possible natural and playable sounds, also nice to be mixed in ''musical'' patches.P

 

As a conclusion, the Player sounds might be somehow considered a software version of our NXP sounds in a quite simplified version (at least so far :-)."

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Hopefully Gianni's answer will clear up a lot of the questions about the Numa X and Numa Player.

[b3plyr]

On 9/11/2022 at 8:29 AM, Al Coda said:

 

The opposite is the case.

All modern computers have more CPU power than any combination of DSP chips in hardware keyboard instruments deliver.

 

A flagship like Korg Kronos is a quad core Intel Atom (netbook processor),- which does the job !

 

Now, when you look at p.ex. Purgatory Creek´s sample libraries for NI Kontakt, Korg Kronos/Nautilus, Kurzweil Forte and Yammi Montage/MODX,- you´ll recognize the Kontakt versions offer more velocity layers for each multisample,- 20 layers for the Rhodes Mk V p.ex..

The instrument versions are all crippled, at least because of available memory size.

Any computer offers way more RAM and has to do more work when processing more layers while streaming from disk.

 

So,- Numa Player could be way better than it is while runnig on an entry level laptop offering enough RAM.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

No, the opposite is not the case. The context needs to be considered. In some cases, a regular CPU is more appropriate, in others, dedicated DSP. I agree that all modern computers have more CPU power than any combination of DSP chips in hardware keyboard instruments deliver - in specific some cases. Yes, for the most cases the CPU (as you said the Kronos) can handle whatever you need. I never use anything but Mac hardware in my studio, and I run a large number of tracks and effects. But that doesn't mean there is more horsepower with the CPU. Granted, dedicated ALUs and GPUs have greatly enhanced the CPU for signal processing. But, there are applications where that is either not enough or the processing is not done at the same fidelity. Kurzweil, Studiologic, etc. use a lot of dedicated hardware and software for a reason. Kurzweil used to do standard custom chips, and now are doing their own Field Programable Gate Arrays (FPGS). Studio logic uses some dedicated hardware and DSP for the effects. Before I retired, I was involved in a number of signal processing projects, including audio. There were a number of cases where a straight CPU could not handle the load. In those cases we either used customs (and specific purpose) hardware and/or programmable DSP(s).

 

I totally agree with you on the sample libraries. If you want the largest, and most layers, currently the CPU base processors are the way to go. And as you would expect, that is because, in large part, they are designed to handle large amounts of memory.

 

I just posted a response from Studiologic on Numa Player and Piano X.