New Studiologic Numa X Piano

[kenheeter]

The 8" Altos are also very good!

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, Eli K. said:

That one looks great! Thank You! Any other recommendation that is smaller in size? 

 Alto TS308, and also closer to budget.

 

The EV ZXa1 is better, and lighter, but you'd only be able to afford one in your budget, and the Alto is still good.

 

Either way, you may also want to add a mixer, see the thread at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/182501-light-weight-keyboard-amp-or-equivalent/#comments

 

[Al Coda]

The Alto 310 has enough low end for all keyboards,- except kickin´ basspedals on the organ.

Alto has a good and affordable subwoofer for that purpose,- so when in need for more low end,- buy the sub later.

The Alto 308 might be good enough too,- depending on your needs.

Look at the specs (frequency range and SPL) and you know.

The difference of larger cones in the range of 8"-12" is a very few Hz only (or if at all) and how much air is moved.

That might be interesting when using as a PA, but not for your keys as monitor speakers.

When you need a massage of your balls,- you better buy 15" and 18" woofers.

 

And,- you don´t need a mixer urgently,- that´s why the NUMA X has 4 audio inputs to connect additional keyboards/ sound modules.

The setup example page #7 of the NUMA X manual shows the instrument being connected directly to active speakers with it´s main stereo outputs.

NUMA X manual

So try this 1st and check if the NUMA X audio outs are hot enough to drive the TS310 (or whatelse) line audio inputs.

Almost all of these active speakers come w/ a input gain control,- so their input channel is nothing else than a single input channel of line-mixer !!!

 

IMO, the Altos are bang for the buck and everything sounding significantly better for live, cost significantly more money too.

 

A pair of the Alto 310 is already a bit more expensive than the OP´s budget is,- so why offering more expensive single speakers ?

Stereo keyboards w/ onboard stereo-FX sound s##t in mono,- everyone knows !

 

☺️

 

A.C.

[Al Coda]

3 hours ago, HammondDave said:

I A/B’ed the Altos with my JBL 8” studio monitors in my studio, and there was no comparison. The JBL’s had a better low end and smoother frequency range than the Altos, and were much quieter.

 

You shouldn´t compare studio monitors w/ live (PA) speakers.

 

The Altos sound better than any "keyboard combo amp" on the market,- Aspen SS3 and Motion Sound included.

 

I´d opt for 10" / 2-way,- and when need more low end, buy the 12" longthrow subwoofer.

 

But my experience is, in the studio, when touring or in clubs,- the keyboard´s low end is cut in the mix because it´s bassplayer and bassdrum territory.

The only exceptions are synth-bass and organ basspedals in a organ jazz trio.

For synthbass,- I´d split the synth´s signal and go directly into the PA.

I´m pretty sure that´s what the soundman wanted !

 

☺️

 

A.C.

[AnotherScott]

14 minutes ago, Al Coda said:

Almost all of these active speakers come w/ a input gain control,- so their input channel is nothing else than a single input channel of line-mixer !!!

It's not quite that simple, as discussed in that other thread I linked to.

 

My guess is that the PA cabs expect a +4 input, while keyboards usually put out -10, which is what the mixers (and "keyboard amps") expect. Boosting the gain on the PA side (or engaging their mic preamp) to compensate does not always give the best results.

[Al Coda]

6 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

It's not quite that simple, as discussed in that other thread I linked to.

 

My guess is that the PA cabs expect a +4 input, while keyboards usually put out -10, which is what the mixers (and "keyboard amps") expect. Boosting the gain on the PA side (or engaging their mic preamp) to compensate does not always give the best results.

 

Yeah, but when you have a line mixer like p.ex. Rolls RM 302 w/ just only a volume control and pan,- the problem is the same.

In fact, you´d need a quality stereo line-preamp instead of a, in the NUMA X case obsolete, multi channel mixer.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

 

[kenheeter]

Tons of gin on the Altos.

Gain.....

[drawback]

2 minutes ago, kenheeter said:

Tons of gin on the Altos.

Gain.....

A bit of rye humour 😃

[Al Coda]

a cool tool is also Ebtech LLS-2

 

cheaper as a 2-ch preamp and eliminates the problem and ground-lopps, hum and noise as well.

Any -10dB output keyboard w/ this and the Altos should be a good rig.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

[AnotherScott]

50 minutes ago, Al Coda said:

Yeah, but when you have a line mixer like p.ex. Rolls RM 302 w/ just only a volume control and pan,- the problem is the same.

In fact, you´d need a quality stereo line-preamp instead of a, in the NUMA X case obsolete, multi channel mixer.

I would think that even a little Mackie Mix5 would do the trick, $60. (Or for even less, a Behringer.)

[Al Coda]

16 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I would think that even a little Mackie Mix5 would do the trick, $60. (Or for even less, a Behringer.)

 

All obsolete discussion.

OP better checks out if any line level shifter, preamp or mixer is necessary at all once he´ll own the active speaker(s).

 

Me personally, I wouldn´t opt for the cheap, tiny mixers at all.

I had to send back 2 Mackie VLZ4 8ch mixers because these were bad calibrated and I won´t trust the small and cheap Behringers too much also.

 

I myself, I´m still a candidate for NUMA X piano and I find it too stupid buying a mixer for a keyboard offering a mixer for 4 mono, 2 stereo or any combo of audio input signals.

Connect 2 keyboards w/ stereo outs (organ and synth) in addition w/o the need of a mixer is an important feature for me,- so the only toy I´d buy in addition would be the line level shifter and only if it´s urgently necessary.

The big plus is, it eliminates groundloops, which a mixer or preamp doesn´t.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

[HammondDave]

6 hours ago, Al Coda said:

 

All obsolete discussion.

OP better checks out if any line level shifter, preamp or mixer is necessary at all once he´ll own the active speaker(s).

 

Me personally, I wouldn´t opt for the cheap, tiny mixers at all.

I had to send back 2 Mackie VLZ4 8ch mixers because these were bad calibrated and I won´t trust the small and cheap Behringers too much also.

 

I myself, I´m still a candidate for NUMA X piano and I find it too stupid buying a mixer for a keyboard offering a mixer for 4 mono, 2 stereo or any combo of audio input signals.

Connect 2 keyboards w/ stereo outs (organ and synth) in addition w/o the need of a mixer is an important feature for me,- so the only toy I´d buy in addition would be the line level shifter and only if it´s urgently necessary.

The big plus is, it eliminates groundloops, which a mixer or preamp doesn´t.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

 

Agreed!  Now that they fixed the stupid Noise Gate (you can switch it on and off in the system options), the internal mixer is so useful. It now allows me to mix in my Mojo 61, Korg Module, and the internal sounds of the Piano X!  And there is plenty of gain with its individual channel gain controls.  Awesome!

[b3plyr]

Dave - have you tried a dynamic microphone through the mixer?

[HammondDave]

24 minutes ago, b3plyr said:

Dave - have you tried a dynamic microphone through the mixer?

No… but I will when I return to Long Beach in a week

[b3plyr]

8 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

No… but I will when I return to Long Beach in a week

Thanks. I look forward to your continuing reviews of the Numa X.

[RDM]

 

[HammondDave]

1 hour ago, RDMusic504 said:

 

What a monster player! He is playing the TP110 here…. The song he plays at 18:30 testing out the Wurley is crazy.  And who says you can’t play ppp on this instrument? Talk about dynamic range… check out around 3:30  

[stoken6]

If the TP110 is as good as the buzz here suggests, and Studiologic release a successor to the SL73 based on it, I might need to take a look.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[CyberGene]

I could play ppp on it but the touch response around the ppp range is (was?) weird. I hear they improved the touch response in the new firmware. Maybe they fixed it I don’t know. It’s a great board for the price! But I feel the CP88 is better and I’m glad I ended up with the Yamaha. That being said, the CP88 is twice the price and is not twice better… The Numa is much better in the price/performance ratio. Talk diminishing returns… 😕 I can wholeheartedly recommend the Numa if price is a concern and even without, it’s a fantastic keyboard. But I feel with the CP88 there’s some level of absolute refinement that I missed in the Numa. 

[Dockeys]

3 hours ago, stoken6 said:

If the TP110 is as good as the buzz here suggests, and Studiologic release a successor to the SL73 based on it, I might need to take a look.

 

Cheers, Mike.

Action is always going to be subjective. I’m with Gene on the Numa action, playable but just not good enough for me. Maybe the firmware addressed this. I ended up with the CP73. CP88 just too heavy for me. I’m fact outside of Hammoddave I’ve sensed most of the responses on the thread have been a bit reserved in terms of the action. Best way to decide is to get your hands on one and give it a thorough demo. 

[funkyhammond]

5 hours ago, stoken6 said:

If the TP110 is as good as the buzz here suggests, and Studiologic release a successor to the SL73 based on it, I might need to take a look.

 

I think the action is fine but nothing exceptional. I don't have a huge amount of experience with the TP100 but I would say the T110 feels somewhat similar but with a lighter hammer action touch and less bounce. I say it feels similar because it still reminds me of the TP100 more than any Yamaha/Roland/Korg actions I've played but it doesn't feel as "heavy" and bouncy as the TP100. Also, if this matters at all to you, it did feel like the pivot point was a bit closer to the back of the key than it needed to be. It's not as bad as the ultra-slim DPs that are really hard to get any good control at the back of the keys but it is a bit worse than the other boards I was A/B'ing it against, like the Yamaha CP88 or Korg SV2. I would say it is a good lighter hammer action for the price if price is the main concern. Not bad, not amazing.

[HammondDave]

9 hours ago, Dockeys said:

Action is always going to be subjective. I’m with Gene on the Numa action, playable but just not good enough for me. Maybe the firmware addressed this. I ended up with the CP73. CP88 just too heavy for me. I’m fact outside of Hammoddave I’ve sensed most of the responses on the thread have been a bit reserved in terms of the action. Best way to decide is to get your hands on one and give it a thorough demo. 

I agree that touch is in the eye of the beholder. I stated from my very first post that I am primarily a Hammond player and not a classical or jazz piano player, so I have a very different  POV. I started playing piano when I was 13, but my true love was/is the organ. After decades of primarily having organs in my studio (I do have a classic wurly, but I rarely play it), I wanted to add an 88 note piano to my studio. I have also had numerous operations on my hands, so I had to find a hammer action keyboard that would not damage or hurt my hands.  I tried the offerings from Yamaha, Casio, Kawai, etc. They all had characteristics that I did not like, which kept me from buying them. The TP110 is the only keybed I found that I can play for hours without my hands hurting.  Again, this is me. Your situation and needs may be different.

 

I would add that I am not the only one singing the praises of this keyboard. IMHO, I believe that In most aspects it is superior to the offerings from the largest corporate manufacturers.  I also believe that some (not all… including CyberGene and FunkyHammond) prefer to choose the established brands due to the fact that they are the “Safe” choices. Like in the personal computer industry during the 80’s, the old saying was “No one got fired for specifying IBM”.  And look where IBM is today…  Look at all the people who prefer to pay thousands of dollars more for a Hammond/Suzuki product when they can get a better (or at least comparable) B3 clone from a small Italian company… we see this all the time.

 

So I agree with many of my fellow musicians here.  Try a lot of digital pianos and choose what YOU like… and what you can comfortably express your art with. 

[b3plyr]

I agree touch is important, but so are other things. For one, the keyboard is light. I'm getting tired of carting my Nord Grand around. The interface is also intriguing - looks simple but quick to use. And finally, the sounds. If they are as good or better than those on my Nord, that'll work. I can accept a less than perfect Keybed, and of course, as Dave said, "touch is in the eye of the beholder". But will I buy one? Undecided right now.

[wd8dky]

Independent of the actions, can't you set up internal & external sounds in the same way with the Compact 2x?  I know the mixer isn't there, but any audio interface will support that capability. Thx. 

[napilopez]

For those about the Numa X Piano GT, I recieved mine yesterday, and the TP-400W action is truly excellent, especially after firmware update 2.0. I'm an amateur with only a few years of playing under his belt, but I like it more than the Roland PHA-50 and Yamaha NW/NWX, and find it closer to Kawai VPC1/MP11SE level. Very much a top-tier action, especially in such a compact frame.

[Dockeys]

In terms of the interface I think it’s one of the best and most intuitive out there. I didn’t look at the manual once for the brief time I had it. It’s certainly way more bang for your buck than any other board in this category.  It’s about 2/3 kilos lighter and a few cms shorter than the CP73 I replaced it with. I just couldn’t gel with the action and the pianos didn’t inspire me. That being said the newer firmware releases have certainly attempted to address this. I think this board will certainly be a winner for a lot of people. I’d like to try the GT action but the weight is beyond what I would even consider anymore. 

[CyberGene]

19 hours ago, Dockeys said:

I ended up with the CP73. CP88 just too heavy for me.

Yes, that's true. I replaced a YC73 with a CP88 and can confirm that the NW-GH3 action in the latter is substantially heavier in feel to the BHS action in the YC73/CP73. That being said, as a classical pianist myself and being used to the real grand piano action in my AvantGrand N1X, I find the playing experience of the CP88 very satisfying for pure acoustic piano stuff. It's also OK for Rhodes but is certainly heavy for other types of sounds. I'd say if one is mainly after acoustic piano sounds, the heavier CP88 action is closer to a real piano, whereas the YC/CP73 are better for Rhodes and broader palette of sounds and keyboard duties.

[Al Coda]

7 hours ago, napilopez said:

For those about the Numa X Piano GT, I recieved mine yesterday, and the TP-400W action is truly excellent, especially after firmware update 2.0. I'm an amateur with only a few years of playing under his belt, but I like it more than the Roland PHA-50 and Yamaha NW/NWX, and find it closer to Kawai VPC1/MP11SE level. Very much a top-tier action, especially in such a compact frame.

 

Well, I´ve found the Kawai MP11 (not SE) a bit too heavy for my taste and never had a chance to play a VPC-1, a PHA-50 or Yammi NW/NWX action.

Since I moved more than 6 years ago, there´s no pro keyboard shop in my area anymore.

 

It´s great news the GT´s action is great,- but now I´d like to know if the GT action is heavier or lighter than the MP11(SE).

I guess MP11 and MP11SE actions are identical,- no ?

 

☺️

 

A.C.

[AnotherScott]

 

6 hours ago, CyberGene said:

On 6/12/2022 at 9:15 AM, Dockeys said:

I ended up with the CP73. CP88 just too heavy for me.

Yes, that's true. I replaced a YC73 with a CP88 and can confirm that the NW-GH3 action in the latter is substantially heavier in feel to the BHS action in the YC73/CP73.

I think Dockeys may have meant too heavy in travel weight, as opposed to too heavy in key feel. I would not have considered the 88 because of travel weight, but I did like the action, at least for pianos... though yes, it was a bit heavy feeling for my taste as well, particularly at the bottom. If it were balanced, so that all the keys were the same as the lighter feeling ones toward the top, I'd have found that preferable. But with the editable velocity parameters in the recent software update, I'm pretty happy with the feel in my YC73.

[drawback]

I'm travelling over to the mainland today and will be able to check out the ONE NuMax 88 west of the Rockies. It's not the GT model but at least I'll get my hands on the TP110 and see if AP/EP modelling is the quality I need it to be. I'll try and post later today or tomorrow.