CEB Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Grrrrrrrrrrr. It"s subconscious error. I"m not thinking. Not in control. Another reason to play Bach. No pedal. I need to play something. My hands way out of shape. 3-4 hour gig would kill me. Thought I would revisit Grieg"s Lyric Pieces. Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Spend some time working on your organ chops. That helps me. Every once in a while, I spend a bit of time playing a few tunes (different styles) on the piano while consciously keeping my foot entirely off the sustain pedal. Talk about something that'll make you pay attention pretty quick. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted April 15, 2020 Author Share Posted April 15, 2020 Yes. Great post. I"m a toe tapper by nature. You can guess what one of my biggest issues was when I started playing organ. ð. Those rhythmic volume swells were not cool. Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 This thread reminds me of a "remember when story," (Tony Soprano's least favorite thing to do.) I was enrolled at Berklee and was in a big band ensemble run by Bob Rose. After many weeks, we went into studio to record. Without any warning Bob was in control room and right before we recorded first song, he spoke into mike and called it "Peter's, tie my legs to the piano stool blues." because he often had to remind me I was pedal crazy. Good times. Quote AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 A couple years ago the piano in one of the bars I play lost it's sustain pedal function and it took them about 4 months to get it fixed. That's happened in other places I've played (which tells you something about my level of performance). Having zero pedal is definitely not good, but I'd argue that being forced to compensate in that situation makes you a better piano player. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nightime Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Another way to help with your pedal usage. Disconnect it. Forces you to use your hands for legato passages rather than rely on the pedal. I'm really bad about the pedal as well. I just got Pianoteq working on my new computer, and was watching the graphic of the pedals while it played a piece that I had recently recorded. The sustain pedal was pressed probably 90% of the time. Time for me to take my own advice. Quote "In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome. So God helped him and created woman. Now everybody's got the blues." Willie Dixon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Funny, I have the opposite problem when I switch over to organ. I often forget to use the pedal in the midst of trying to play the keys, drawbars, Leslie switch and bass pedals. I'll eventually catch myself but It's still a conscious effort where as with piano the sustain pedal comes natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 My pure piano playing technique improved by chance a couple years ago after a gig. My trusty sustain pedal went south after the 4th song. For once I did not have my backup. it showed me I relied too much on the pedal instead of good technique on the keys. I made it thru that gig then immediately started practicing at home without a sustain plugged in. Of course many songs make use of sustain, but not the the way I was using it. I had to retrain my ear a bit. After a while, and listening to recordings, my piano sound were much better defined. Interesting thought: I do not have the issue of over use of sustain when playing my Steinway at home. Perhaps the natural vibrations and hall feeling of the big open lid are the reason. That also taught me to go and really dial in the "color" and "hall space" parameters in my VST pianos. My pianos were too dry....perhaps another cause of my overuse of sustain. Quote David Gig Rig:Roland Fantom 08 | Roland Jupiter 80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 One of my pet peeves is hearing synths played using too long envelope release times. I wonder if the underlying cause is related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Tonewheel Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Grrrrrrrrrrr. It"s subconscious error. I"m not thinking. Not in control. Another reason to play Bach. No pedal. I need to play something. My hands way out of shape. 3-4 hour gig would kill me. Thought I would revisit Grieg"s Lyric Pieces. My teacher says, "A sustain pedal often hides a multitude of sins." She always has me practicing a Bach piece in my repertoire (no pedal ever!). Inventions and the WTC are invaluable, and when I do play other pieces that use the pedal, I find I am much more restrained and the pieces don't sound muddied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throbert Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 yea I can get pretty muddy if I don't keep my foot to myself. Just have to keep depedaling more consistent than otherwise. Quote Triton Extreme 76, Kawai ES3, GEM-RPX, HX3/Drawbar control, MSI Z97 MPower/4790K, Lynx Aurora 8/MADI/AES16e, OP-X PRO, Ptec, Komplete. Ashley MX-206. future MOTU M64 RME Digiface Dante for Mon./net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 A couple years ago the piano in one of the bars I play lost it's sustain pedal function and it took them about 4 months to get it fixed. Okay, get this: I went to Boston University as a threatre performance major. Julianne Moore (then Julie Smith) was in my classes, but that's another story. BU School of Fine Arts policy dictated that freshmen were not allowed to be cast in shows...but one of the grad students wanted to direct a musical called Piano Bar and he felt I was the best piano playing student at SFA, so they got me permission to do the show. They put the show on at a bar in Allston, MA called the Silhouette Lounge. Opening night, the bar was packed, my parents even came up from Philly to see it (the piano player is a starring role). So, about two songs into the first set, I feel the sustain pedal stop working in the middle of the song (not one I was singing, thank goodness). As soon as the song stops, I try to check out what's going on with the (upright) piano I'm playing as discreetly as possible while there's a show happeniong all around me, and I can sort of see the pedal is disconnected from the mechanism inside the piano that lifts the dampers. I realize there's no way to fix it until intermission without stopping the show, and do the rest of the first act (including accompanying myself in an introspective solo tune ) with no freaking sustain pedal, trying as hard as I could to stay in character while basically being the only instrument accompanying everybody. That was all kinds of fun. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe P Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 I went to a small concert in a museum featuring an old local jazzer on baby grand piano, along with an ac. bass player and sax player. I was talking to him afterwards, he was in his mid 80's, great player, dressed kind of like Donald Fagen. I remarked how I noticed he rarely, if ever, used the sustain pedal. His reply: "Aw man, a sustain pedal can kill a groove, man". Ever since, in a rock band context I use very little sustain. It's made me a more percussive player and I think clearer in the mix. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Funster Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Said the lazy unicyclist. Quote FunMachine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJUSCULE Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 I'm almost happy now when I forget a sustain for solo gigs. Quote Eric Website Gear page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 It's funny to read this, as my fault is that I rarely use the sustain pedal at all! I've been trying to think of ways to get myself to use it more, but I tend to use it more on staccato passages (such as my contribution to the Quarantunes Volume I) as a way of tightly controlling the relationship between neighbouring chords and stacked notes, than on legato melodic passages, where I am more inclined to use my hands alone. To be clear, the pedaling I'm talking about here is half-damper and VERY quick vs. long pedaling for sustain. I asked my Mom about this before she died, and she said that few composers marked the pedaling because they felt that was up to interpretation, with the exception of a lot of the impressionistic composers who had very specific pedaling in mind, and possibly some of the 20th century composers as well (I hadn't thought about Grieg as my Mom played LOTS of Grieg but used the pedal more on staccato passages). Regardless of "pedal too much" or "pedal too little", my rule on all things musical is to think like a singer (and/or drummer), and let that inform my decisions. Quote Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Depends on the music, no? Pedal is important for solo piano playing especially - not just for sustain but the timbre of the piano changes when the dampers are off. Much more rich sounding. Upbeat songs, dance tracks, rhythm patterns - pedal off ya? or it gets muddy sounding and the attack is lost in the mix. When I hear, I pedal too much - it brings sounds of chords/harmonies bleeding into each other because the pedal isn't getting a lift when it needs to. Is there another definition of pedaling too much? Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedar Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 I think it's over-pedaling is extremely common, for whatever reason. I know I'm often guilty of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Is there another definition of pedaling too much? Well yeah since I initially thought the op was talking B3 type organ. And of course there"s always these guys: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 That's a lot of pedals! Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJUSCULE Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 I haven't watered the flowers in a few days and now there are less petals. Quote Eric Website Gear page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 In college I pedaled/peddled encyclopedias door to door. My pop told me it would build character. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkfloydcramer Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 I have resolved to do way less piano pedaling (worst offender status) and way more organ pedaling. Simple stuff like Pomp and Circumstance, Whiter Shade etc. Whoops, wrong thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyRude Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 A little late to this thread. I recalled a performance on the Stern show, Burton Cummings came on and played some of his hits. It sounded like to me the sustain got stuck on, and Burton just powered through without blinking. I'm not sure if it was stuck or if he was just riding it? [video:youtube] Quote Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands Tommy Rude Soundcloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Hah; it was probably the notorious polarity mismatch between a Yamaha sustain pedal and a Roland keyboard. :-) Thanks for posting that; Burton Cummings is one of my heroes, and he did my favourite two Guess Who songs, "Undun" and "Share the Land". Quote Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 No mention so far about use of piano sustain in hard rock . . . . . . aka Pedal to the Metal. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Aw man, did you have to do that? That's on my list of songs that I haven't written yet (I keep a list in reserve). Quote Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Aren't there laws against people who are pedalphiles? Quote Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianomike Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 What type of piano is that , I have seen Burton Cummings on YouTube playing newer pianos , and that old one sounds a lot better than the newer one's . I just have to say , he is an amazing talent . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonnor Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 I sat in on Drift Away with a local band a while back, the guy had a Rhodes with no pedal. It was quite an adjustment for me. The guy had very fast fingers. ~ vonnor Quote Gear: Hardware: Nord Stage4, Korg Kronos 2, Novation Summit Software: Cantabile 3, Halion Sonic 3 and assorted VST plug-ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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