Al Coda Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 I appreciate the ribbon input is back,- but why does the 1/8" stereo audio input offer FX and the two 1/4" inputs don´t ? A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Motif Max Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 ...why does the 1/8" stereo audio input offer FX and the two 1/4" inputs don´t ? A.C. What on earth. Quote Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000 Kurzweil: PC3-76| Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT, Kurzweil PC4 (88) Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 External PSU... That would be a deal breaker.... But I don't think Kurz would do that. Their core customer is a live performer or professional musician. Quote Sundown Finished: Gateway, The Jupiter Bluff, Condensation, Apogee Working on: Driven Away, Eighties Crime Thriller Main axes: Kawai MP11 and Kurz PC361 DAW Platform: Cubase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 It's way, way, too early to judge, but that won't stop me... I'm glad they are doing a PC4. It's perhaps not the instrument I hoped for (entirely), but my beloved PC361 started life as a PC2/PC2x, and look how far that came... This could be the beginning of something great. For me, a synth-weighted action is a must. I have 88-notes covered, and Kurzweil has plenty of 88-note instruments in their stable. I don't have the room or the need for another 88, and I like synth-weighted actions for many things. That means I need a 61-key version or a rack mount, which I know won't happen in today's market. The polyphony is great, but the smaller wave ROM is a bit of a disappointment. If it's only forgoing the pianos, that's OK. Again, I selfishly have that base covered. I like the FM addition, but I'd love to see KB3 updated. If you don't own a clonewheel, KB3 isn't too bad, and I think Kurz could re-code it and make it much better. The display doesn't look great, but I'm one of the few who doesn't mind the current PC361 display. Kurzweil has so many clever O/S shortcuts that I don't necessarily need a fancy graphic display. But to keep up with the Joneses in this market, you kind of have to do a big display. This one falls a bit short. I don't like the appearance, but that's highly subjective. It just looks very plasticky. The PC3 series isn't the most handsome either, but design does matter. Function beats form, but I do tend to crave instruments a bit more that have an arresting visual design. A good jet-black color, quality knobs and sliders (with LED crowns), and some quality wood cheeks would fit well with this board. Ultimately it comes down to the playability and the sounds. I love my PC361 because it helps me finish projects. The sounds are useful. It has it's share of massive layers and gargantuan leads (which are fun to play but useless in a composition), but it's filled with highly useable, playable sounds that fit into arrangements. That's the most important consideration of all. Hopefully the PC4 doesn't disappoint on that front. Quote Sundown Finished: Gateway, The Jupiter Bluff, Condensation, Apogee Working on: Driven Away, Eighties Crime Thriller Main axes: Kawai MP11 and Kurz PC361 DAW Platform: Cubase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felis Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 I appreciate the ribbon input is back,- but why does the 1/8" stereo audio input offer FX and the two 1/4" inputs don´t ? A.C. Why would you think that? What purpose do you think the 1/4" inputs would serve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherry Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 External PSU... That would be a deal breaker.... But I don't think Kurz would do that. Their core customer is a live performer or professional musician. Nope. It has external PSU. https://www.musiker-board.de/threads/musikmesse-2019.691679/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wd8dky Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 External PSU... That would be a deal breaker.... Seriously? The Mojo 61, the most incredible clonewheel ever, also has an external PSU. Most of the other boards raved about here do too. Quote http://www.weisersound.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Motif Max Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 As long as it's made well, I guess I'm OK with it. My cheap Yamaha PSR external PSU's work fine, but the Krome one was poorly designed, hence the well-documented annoying issues. Quote Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000 Kurzweil: PC3-76| Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT, Kurzweil PC4 (88) Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnderGroundGr Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 It's real, i saw a picture in another forum... https://www.musiker-board.de/threads/musikmesse-2019.691679/ and no midi through(in the top kurzweil models you can change it to a second midi out...) Quote Kurzweil K2661 + full options,iMac 27",Mac book white,Apogee Element 24 + Duet,Genelec 8030A,Strymon Lex + Flint,Hohner Pianet T,Radial Key-Largo,Kawai K5000W,Moog Minitaur,Yamaha Reface YC + CP, iPad 9th Gen,Arturia Beatstep + V Collection 9,Osmose https://antonisadelfidis.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I appreciate the ribbon input is back,- but why does the 1/8" stereo audio input offer FX and the two 1/4" inputs don´t ? A.C. Why would you think that? 1/8" stereo audio input w/ FX,- that´s what the specs say. Then they mention two 1/4" audio inputs (L and R). Can be they update later, but for the time being, the unit got that 1/8" audio input feature from Forte models which don´t offer 1/4" inputs at all. The machine in general appears to me as some patchwork model derived from Forte SE and SP-6,- w/ the exception the ribbon controller input is back, there are now 1/4" audio inputs in addition and we´d have to deal w/ ext. 15V PSU now. What purpose do you think the 1/4" inputs would serve? My opinion: No need of FX for 1/8" (consumer electronics) input because it´s mainly used for consumer-audio-playback purposes WHEN additional 1/4" L and R inputs exist to connect p. ex. a 2nd keyboard w/o or not enough of quality internal FX. There might be acceptable modulation and/or delay and you want Kurz-Reverb in addition,- a scenario I´d want for one of my keyboards when being connected to the PC-4 via 1/4" inputs. A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 External PSU... That would be a deal breaker.... I don't see how this is a deal breaker. Hypothetically if the Kurz met every requirement that you had or need but has an external PSU, you would still pass on the keyboard? My two cents, but that is the least of my concerns when I'm evaluating a keyboard. Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Beaumont Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Personally as long as its not the wall wart type but a line lump like the one on my SP6 its not an issue for me. I hated wall wart type on my Yamaha MOX8, just one of the reasons I sold it. Quote Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12 Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_G Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 - Plastic body - external PS - Medeli keys and they call it PC4 ???? C'mon Kurzweil, are you kiddin'??? Quote Studio: Hammond XK5-XLK5, Roland Fantom 8, Prophet 5, Roland SE02, Neo Vent, HX3-Expander, Yamaha Montage M7 Live: Yamaha CP88, Hammond SKX Pro, Hammond XB2-HX3, Roland Fantom 07, Roland SA1000, Neo Vent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Piano Man Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 - Plastic body - external PS - Medeli keys and they call it PC4 ???? C'mon Kurzweil, are you kiddin'??? Agreed. I know the PC2 had an external power supply but the line is meant to signify high quality. A more accurate name for this board would be SP8 or even Artis SL or something. I suppose the main positive is that if you want a Kurzweil 88, theres a lot of choice... Kurzweil Forte 8 Kurzweil Forte SE Kurzweil PC3k8 Kurzweil PC3a8 Kurzweil PC3x Kurzweil Artis Kurzweil Artis SE Kurzweil SP6 Kurzweil SP1 and now the Kurzweil PC4 Quote Kurzweil PC3x Technics SX-P50 Korg X3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Piano Man Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I have done a quick run down of several of Kurzweils 88 key boards, focussing on four areas: Keyboard Action, Piano Samples, Outputs and Power Supply. Looking through these, I am confused as to why anyone would buy a Kurzweil Artis as it still seems to hold a pretty high price. (Around £1600 UK) If you want an internal power supply and Fatar TP100LR at that pricepoint, surely you would go for the Forte SE. Kurzweil Forte 8 - Fatar TP40L - Japanese C7, German D and Triple Strike - Main and Aux outputs - Internal power supply Kurzweil Forte SE - Fatar TP100LR - Japanese C7, German D and Triple Strike - Main outputs only - Internal power supply Kurzweil PC3a8 - Fatar TP40L - German D and Triple Strike only - Main and Aux outputs - Internal power supply Kurzweil PC4 - Medeli Action - Japanese C7, German D and Triple Strike - Main and Aux outputs - EXTERNAL power supply Kurzweil Artis - Fatar TP100LR - German D and Triple Strike only - Main outputs only - Internal power supply Kurzweil Artis SE - Fatar TP100LR - German D and Triple Strike only - Main outputs only - EXTERNAL power supply Kurzweil SP6 - Medeli Action - Japanese C7, German D and Triple Strike - Main outputs only - EXTERNAL power supply Quote Kurzweil PC3x Technics SX-P50 Korg X3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felis Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 - Plastic body - external PS - Medeli keys and they call it PC4 ???? C'mon Kurzweil, are you kiddin'??? If it holds the price down to an acceptable level, I'm not complaining. I haven't seen any real deal breakers yet. If you want more, there's always the Forte. I'm withholding judgement until there's more info available, as well as actual units to get hands on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 and they call it PC4 ???? C'mon Kurzweil, are you kiddin'??? Yep ! For calling it a PC4, it should come w/ upgraded V.A.S.T. in the sense of faster "vintage" shapeable ENVs instead of linear only, much faster and non-aliasing LFOs, more non-aliasing VA OSCs and generally faster scanner update cycles. But that might need a partially re-write of the VAST engine and more fast DSPs. FORTE features, more sample content and more memory size compared to a PC3 isn´t enough IMO. But I accept they might need more money for real flagship developement and now release this hybrid. A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 If you want more, there's always the Forte. No, it´s not, because they ditched the ribbon control connector in Forte models. On a Kurz I want the ribbon controller,- last but not least because it´s very useful together w/ flexible MIDI programming. And the Kurz´ are good MIDI controllers ... A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I'm into making the Kurz sounds (I have the original PC3-76) usable and therefore think it is interesting to load PC3 programs such that they sound unchanged, in every way. The audio input used to be usable for getting studio quality digital effects working, something missing altogether a long time already, and a sign there's interest in the way the machine works for different purposes than one-of-the-computer-workstations-with-samples! There's a lot of sound possible with the built in machinery and various levels of programming, but the results aren't used as the (original) studio processing can be, which makes for the promise I was after when I was able to buy the PC3. I'm getting close to getting neutral sound that will also mix, which I dare anybody to do with any of the existing boards and their sounds. There are demos of the ROM sounds, but most of all other recordings in short suck too much but for my taste, with just some exceptions. That's not directly related to needing more sample time, a popular subject, because that's not going to make an instrument suddenly sound right and it's DAC work perfectly. Recording a simple blues with these machines is a good test: can it sound normal with bass and drum, have decent but controlled presence with some solo sound and good harmonic and rhythmic control of say a 1/8 note piano part, and mix a little blues with the sequencer and the effects such that I can be convinced I could do that myself in a lost half hour? I'll bet you it cannot. T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KorgyPorky Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 This is not the K3000... It's the only K3000 we're ever going to get, and it's close enough for me. I do wish Kurzweil would give us one "Flagship" keyboard with the best of everything they have to offer like Yamaha Roland and Korg usually do. Why not at least make the larger Pianos and Flashplay memory capacity from the Forte an option for the PC4? What world do you live in? To get the best yamaha has to offer, you need a cp88, montage, genosand a stagea.. Also Roland been spreading their tech over many instruments, only serving the low end and middle markets The only instrument offering the best a company ha(d)s to offer is the Korg Kronos.. And just behind that is the Kurzweil Forte.. And maybe the Nord stage 3.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felis Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 If you want more, there's always the Forte. No, it´s not, because they ditched the ribbon control connector in Forte models. On a Kurz I want the ribbon controller,- last but not least because it´s very useful together w/ flexible MIDI programming. And the Kurz´ are good MIDI controllers ... A.C. No argument here. My last Kurzweil was a K2600. I miss both of the ribbons, and I also used the breath controller. I was disappointed to see you can't even use them as an option on the Forte. I think you still could on the PC3 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KorgyPorky Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I have done a quick run down of several of Kurzweils 88 key boards, focussing on four areas: Keyboard Action, Piano Samples, Outputs and Power Supply. Looking through these, I am confused as to why anyone would buy a Kurzweil Artis as it still seems to hold a pretty high price. (Around £1600 UK) If you want an internal power supply and Fatar TP100LR at that pricepoint, surely you would go for the Forte SE. Kurzweil Forte 8 - Fatar TP40L - Japanese C7, German D and Triple Strike - Main and Aux outputs - Internal power supply Kurzweil Forte SE - Fatar TP100LR - Japanese C7, German D and Triple Strike - Main outputs only - Internal power supply Kurzweil PC3a8 - Fatar TP40L - German D and Triple Strike only - Main and Aux outputs - Internal power supply Kurzweil PC4 - Medeli Action - Japanese C7, German D and Triple Strike - Main and Aux outputs - EXTERNAL power supply Kurzweil Artis - Fatar TP100LR - German D and Triple Strike only - Main outputs only - Internal power supply Kurzweil Artis SE - Fatar TP100LR - German D and Triple Strike only - Main outputs only - EXTERNAL power supply Kurzweil SP6 - Medeli Action - Japanese C7, German D and Triple Strike - Main outputs only - EXTERNAL power supply Strange things, Kurzweil moving to Medelli While Nord moves to Kawaii I know what i prefer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I'm under the impression Kurzweil needed to get weight down to compete in the gigger's scene, hence the Medelli in the SP6. Their other meat and potatoes is the Broadway shows where they also now compete with software and who knows what controllers. In that scenario, the TP-40L based models are great for playing acoustic piano, electric piano, strings, brass, synth, organ, etc. Pitch wheel, mod wheel, ribbon controller, foot controllers all useful. But I don't know how much these shows are using Kurzweil sound engines any more with MainStage and RMS KeyboardPatchSolutions. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokely Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Once bitten...too many issues with my pc3. I'd have to wait and see if they have gotten better with quality control. I love the fact that they have a decent b3 organ engine *cough* Yamaha, c'mon *cough* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 External PSU... That would be a deal breaker.... I don't see how this is a deal breaker. Hypothetically if the Kurz met every requirement that you had or need but has an external PSU, you would still pass on the keyboard? My two cents, but that is the least of my concerns when I'm evaluating a keyboard. I understand there will be different points of view on this, but to me, it's a simple signal as to whether it's a professional instrument or not. Top flight, roadworthy instruments are generally going to have internal PSUs. When I see an external PSU, I interpret it to be midgrade or prosumer. Quote Sundown Finished: Gateway, The Jupiter Bluff, Condensation, Apogee Working on: Driven Away, Eighties Crime Thriller Main axes: Kawai MP11 and Kurz PC361 DAW Platform: Cubase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gg22 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I understand there will be different points of view on this, but to me, it's a simple signal as to whether it's a professional instrument or not. Top flight, roadworthy instruments are generally going to have internal PSUs. When I see an external PSU, I interpret it to be midgrade or prosumer. Why would you care about an external PSU if you'd never take the board out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Beaumont Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I understand there will be different points of view on this, but to me, it's a simple signal as to whether it's a professional instrument or not. Top flight, roadworthy instruments are generally going to have internal PSUs. When I see an external PSU, I interpret it to be midgrade or prosumer. Would you consider the $8000 Moog One 16-voice Analog Synthesizer midrange or prosumer then? Since it has a 19v external power supply. Quote Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12 Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I understand there will be different points of view on this, but to me, it's a simple signal as to whether it's a professional instrument or not. Top flight, roadworthy instruments are generally going to have internal PSUs. When I see an external PSU, I interpret it to be midgrade or prosumer. Why would you care about an external PSU if you'd never take the board out? Because it signals the intent/target market for the instrument. You're not going to find world-beating, top flight features coupled with an external PSU. Porsche doesn't engineer a world-class powertrain with a finely-tuned front suspension and then slap a solid rear axle on their vehicles. The two just don't go together. Quote Sundown Finished: Gateway, The Jupiter Bluff, Condensation, Apogee Working on: Driven Away, Eighties Crime Thriller Main axes: Kawai MP11 and Kurz PC361 DAW Platform: Cubase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I understand there will be different points of view on this, but to me, it's a simple signal as to whether it's a professional instrument or not. Top flight, roadworthy instruments are generally going to have internal PSUs. When I see an external PSU, I interpret it to be midgrade or prosumer. Would you consider the $8000 Moog One 16-voice Analog Synthesizer midrange or prosumer then? Since it has a 19v external power supply. Now that's interesting... I didn't know that. That's how you change minds... Quote Sundown Finished: Gateway, The Jupiter Bluff, Condensation, Apogee Working on: Driven Away, Eighties Crime Thriller Main axes: Kawai MP11 and Kurz PC361 DAW Platform: Cubase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Beaumont Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 The interesting thing is my Behringer DM12 has an internal power supply. Quote Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12 Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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