Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread

[Lady Gaia]

I thought the implication of hammer-action was obvious, but maybe not. I'm referring to "the same action as the Montage" 88.

 

Oh! Quite. Yes, its an interesting question given the 26lb weight difference between the Montage 7 and 8. Presumably weight was simply not a consideration with the Montage design and the larger case contributes substantially to its mass alongside the action?

 

The aluminum CP73/88 enclosure suggests it has to have been designed with weight reduction as their major focus. Perhaps that includes changes to the mounting for the action or other adjustments that leave the feel intact. I assume its not exactly the same in any case as aftertouch would be a surprising inclusion for the product category.

[AnotherScott]

The BHE (Balanced Hammer Effect) action already exists without aftertouch, in the MO8. If AT were the only reason the Montage 8 and CP73 actions differed, it wouldn't warrant a new name.

[gg22]

Yamaha S70XS with BHE is probably the closest keyboard to the CP73, and it weighs 44.2 lbs, 17 lbs difference.

[Legatoboy]

So romantic in French...just sayin! The French just love protocol . . .

It's not SCM but it's very clean/ balanced and articulate sounding compared to previous P series I think possibly.. at least just listening to it..I think SCM may sing a bit better in the midrange. As Dave Ferris mentioned a slight synthetic sounding component and 'flattening' for lack of a better term sometimes when the velocity gets pushed a bit, that's what I hear .... that's more of a AWM2 attribute ..With SCM that sort of thing was lessened but it does sound good and looks very playable with that action..It probably 'bangs' a bit better in the low-end than SCM . . . more resonant down there a tad

 

Almost everything in life is a tradeoff

[ElmerJFudd]

The best demo I've heard the piano on. At 1:00 and 2:37.

 

[video:youtube]

 

OK, so we know there are enough velocity layers to get a mellow p and a pinging f and some decent seemingly smooth gradation in between. Is he on the 73 in this video? If so, the lesser action tracks velocity pretty well, yes? Timbre of the sample detail, perhaps length and quality are better than all the sub $1k stuff that has been popping up.

 

Get them in the shops, Yamaha and we will see what's what. Then when the bitching starts, get that firmware update cooking.

[Outkaster]

Well the bitching has already started here and people haven't even played the thing.

[AnotherScott]

Is he on the 73 in this video?

I only watched a bit of it, but I'm 99.9% sure its the 73. Perspective can skew things, but the side angles are more consistent with the grouping of 3 black keys near the bottom and 2 near the top, and with the pitch/mod controls being closer to the rest of the controls, as they are on the 73 vs 88.

 

Action doesn't "look" great to me, but only against a standard of ideal, not necessarily against a standard of other hammer action boards that weigh under 30 lbs. But for example, look at the run down at about 1:18, he hits keys that don't play. Also, if you look closely, it appears the keys return slightly sluggishly, with a bit of bounce. Personally, based on the visuals, I'd keep my expectations in the TP100 territory, and my money is still on it being basically a non-graded version of the GHS.

 

But yes, it sounds very nice here, and the sound does seem well calibrated to the action in terms of his achieving dynamic expressivity.

 

Well the bitching has already started here and people haven't even played the thing.

Mais oui!

[RogerL]

For those that played the CP88 at NAMM, I am most interested in the action and if its as good (or better) then the CP4. The piano and keyboard sounds I can hear are good. Seems to me that most manufacturers have at least one good to great piano sound these days,maybe the sampling technology has improved so much. So, for me at least, its the action and keyboard connection that counts. Will find out soon enough when they hit the stores.

[Bobadohshe]

For those that played the CP88 at NAMM, I am most interested in the action and if its as good (or better) then the CP4. The piano and keyboard sounds I can hear are good. Seems to me that most manufacturers have at least one good to great piano sound these days,maybe the sampling technology has improved so much. So, for me at least, its the action and keyboard connection that counts. Will find out soon enough when they hit the stores.

 

I quite liked the action on the CP88. It seemed a touch lighter than the CP4 (a little more Nord like?) and yet solid enough for real piano playing. I don't know how I feel about the faux grained ebony black keys. I had a really positive experience with this board at NAMM. I've also been playing the hell out of the CP4 for 5 years and know that board pretty well. I want a CP88 pretty badly as it would give me the more robust EPs that are the CP4s weakness IMO....

 

BUT I need some serious time to play the instrument for real, not the mere 7 minutes I got at NAMM in headphones.

[Joe Muscara]

Well the bitching has already started here and people haven't even played the thing.

It happens to every product!

[Tonysounds]

These boards look GREAT...... the only fly in the ointment is the two tiny levers that Im surmising are pitch bend and mod controls.

 

WHY?!!!! WHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHY?????!!!!!

[Outkaster]

Well the bitching has already started here and people haven't even played the thing.

It happens to every product!

 

Yes Joe you are right about that.

[Fleer]

The v1.1 update weighs 1.1GB including some new sounds, so does that give us an idea of the CPs total internal memory?

[ElmerJFudd]

Not necessarily. Only that it can hold as much as 1.1GB. But not if it can hold more. Though its unlikely for Yamaha to give away storage that wont be used.

[mojkarma]

Though its unlikely for Yamaha to give away storage that wont be used.

 

MoDX?

 

[NBrooks]

I'm intrigued by the built-in USB audio capability. In theory that allows you to connect say a laptop with Mainstage etc. and also run the sounds through the main outs - so avoiding the need to bring an audio interface along?

 

If so, that's great. But reading the manual, it's disappointing that the balanced outs and the unbalanced outs are just clones of each other. I can't say any function that allows you to put the USB audio out of one and the onboard sounds out of another.

 

Or, more broadly, even for internal sounds it would be cool if you could route them to either of the output types.

[M_G]

 

USB Audio/Midi is a big plus, I think !

 

Show me a Nord that has it...?

 

[NBrooks]

Im not saying its not a plus. Just observing that it would be much better if you could have on independent outs, since there are two sets of physical outputs. Thats all.

[Charleston]

[video:youtube]

[Bobby Simons]

That was a great demo.

[EscapeRocks]

Thank you for posting that. UJIEE Katsunori is my very favorite reviewer ever.

 

 

[jimkost2002]

So these are released March 18.

I have my CP on pre-order with next day shipping.

If this is asgood as I suspect itll be, maybe Ill even get a CP88 to stay at home.

I plan to give the73 the acid test as it seems to be the best Non-Nord gig keyboard for Pianos and Clavs. (I have mojo61/lm for dedicated organ duties)

Did I hear Mellotron in Katsunori-sans video?

(I concur with EscapeRocks that he is my fave reviewer as well)

 

So, Ima have a report on the CP73 and MS408s coming asap....

[AnotherScott]

I plan to give the73 the acid test as it seems to be the best Non-Nord gig keyboard for Pianos and Clavs.

Looks not so great for clav... just 2 clav sounds in it. How about Korg Grandstage? That gives you a lot more clav (including all 4 pickup positions), also in a weighted 73 (though heavier). If you need a lighter weight piano/clav hammer action board, maybe Kurzweil SP6?

[jimkost2002]

I plan to give the73 the acid test as it seems to be the best Non-Nord gig keyboard for Pianos and Clavs.

Looks not so great for clav... just 2 clav sounds in it. How about Korg Grandstage? That gives you a lot more clav (including all 4 pickup positions), also in a weighted 73 (though heavier). If you need a lighter weight piano/clav hammer action board, maybe Kurzweil SP6?

 

Not entirely true that its not so great for clavs...

Even though it has 2 pickup positions instead of 4, they will probably release more sounds in the next os update...plus some judicious eq and fx can cover in a pinch, for my needs at least....

Dont care for Grandstage....hate the action, esecially for clavs, hate the layout and the tiny pb and mod wheels.

Now the VC is an entirely different story.

Great keybed and form factor and kind of the perfect keyboard for the Afrobeat/Afropop stuff I do.

 

[AnotherScott]

I'm not saying the CP's clav sounds are bad (heck, I haven't even played one), just that it only has 2 clav sounds (plus yes, EQ and effects you can apply to them), which makes me skeptical that it could be the best non-Nord for clav. In weighted action boards, I'd look at Montage/MODX8 and Forte7/SP6 as possibly some stronger clav/piano alternatives, maybe Crumar 7 if you're happy with the new piano...?

 

Dont care for Grandstage....hate the action, especially for clavs, hate the layout and the tiny pb and mod wheels.

Well, if the PB and mod wheel is an issue, then it sounds like you're using this for more than piano/clav, yes? So then other things could also come into play.

 

But interesting about the Grandstage action being bad for clav. As weighted actions go, I thought the SV1 was above average for clav, because it has a lower release point than most. It seemed nice and snappy. In fact, I would have suggested SV1 insead of (or in addition to) Grandstage except that people generally find acoustic piano to be an SV1 weakness.

[ElmerJFudd]

I played the GrandStage as well. Was not impressed with the action or the action to sound connection. Have no idea if the CP-73 action is going to deliver and the 88 doesnt thrill me for dragging around. Then Casio shows up with these super light Privia S series models and Yamaha already has that poor mans Montage in the MODX. And Kurzweil surprised everyone with the SP6. Its good to have options.

 

The new CPs are so specific to the EP vibe. Id love to have one but not sure I can justify if its not going to go out and do work that often. Would have been something if they went the extra 9 yards and slapped drawbars and an organ engine on it. And just for good measure the CS and or DX engines from the reface models.

[AnotherScott]

I played the GrandStage as well. Was not impressed with...the action to sound connection.

It's a shame that didn't survive the SV1, then. I originally thought the SV1 would not be a sensible purchase, too limited for its price, but it's a joy to play, and I think it will turn out to be one of the few "classics" of the 21st century so far. I think the only people who don't think well of it are people who haven't played it. ;-) Though it is frustrating that they haven't really updated it, as it could still be so much better with some minor tweaks.

[ElmerJFudd]

I was at NAMM 2010 when the SV-1 debuted. I digged its vibe immediately - the UI especially. I did not care for the on board acoustic piano or the way the action interacted with it. But for EPs, excellent. And the rest of the timbres all useable. This is also when Yamaha showed off the CP-1 which was much more expensive, heavier, and a much better acoustic piano impersonation. It sounded great but the UI (while a beautiful display) was too digital and parameter divey compared to the switches and knobs on the SV-1. I also saw the Zarenbourg at this time but the prototype was not working and it would be another year or two before they actually released one.

[jimkost2002]

I played the GrandStage as well. Was not impressed with...the action to sound connection.

It's a shame that didn't survive the SV1, then. I originally thought the SV1 would not be a sensible purchase, too limited for its price, but it's a joy to play, and I think it will turn out to be one of the few "classics" of the 21st century so far. I think the only people who don't think well of it are people who haven't played it. ;-) Though it is frustrating that they haven't really updated it, as it could still be so much better with some minor tweaks.

 

I owned THREE of them - 2 reds and a black, which was marked RH3 made in Japan....THAT one made me hate Korg hammer actions with the intensity of a 1000 white-hot suns....

Yeah, it was a FANTASTIC SOUNDING keyboard hsmpered by the worst action this side of a Williams.....

 

I REALLY wanted to like the SV1 and it ticked so many boxes for me, but......

 

[jimkost2002]

I'm not saying the CP's clav sounds are bad (heck, I haven't even played one), just that it only has 2 clav sounds (plus yes, EQ and effects you can apply to them), which makes me skeptical that it could be the best non-Nord for clav. In weighted action boards, I'd look at Montage/MODX8 and Forte7/SP6 as possibly some stronger clav/piano alternatives, maybe Crumar 7 if you're happy with the new piano...?

 

Dont care for Grandstage....hate the action, especially for clavs, hate the layout and the tiny pb and mod wheels.

Well, if the PB and mod wheel is an issue, then it sounds like you're using this for more than piano/clav, yes? So then other things could also come into play.

 

But interesting about the Grandstage action being bad for clav. As weighted actions go, I thought the SV1 was above average for clav, because it has a lower release point than most. It seemed nice and snappy. In fact, I would have suggested SV1 insead of (or in addition to) Grandstage except that people generally find acoustic piano to be an SV1 weakness.

 

For a hardware Clav emulation to be successful, the action must be light and have a quick return. Neither of which applies to the Grandstage. Say what you will about Nords but the semi-weighted boards are among the best for playing Clav.