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Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread


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It sounds great, I like the case is aluminium, there are XLR balanced outs, enough pedal/switch connectors,- but unfortunately it´s too "nordish" design (for me).

I never understood why "knobbyness" is essential for a instrument offering preset memory.

I rarely tweak sounds in realtime once I have done my presets I need for a performance,- and here, we´re not talking synth, a DP instead and offering additional soundware.

I´m also irritated because in the beginning of the vid it says "free w/ OS 1.xx" when demonstarating the piano sound.

Normally, that alone teaches me I´d have to pay for more updates/ sounds in future.

 

Back to the design:

All those pots sticking out from the front panel are predestined for breaking on transport sooner or later while the display is tiny and all the knobbyness is in the way of stacking some 2nd keyboard on top to get keys as close as possible together or even put some piece of paper/sheet on top.

 

I don´t understand why companies ignore flat-top keyboards since some time.

 

Again, I´d want a module and I hope it will come.

 

A.C.

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I never understood why "knobbyness" is essential for a instrument offering preset memory.

I rarely tweak sounds in realtime once I have done my presets I need for a performance

 

Knobiness is really nice for players who don't always set up presets in advance.

 

Also, knobiness simplifies the task of setting up your presets in advance.

 

FInally, sometimes you do get a sense of something you'd unexpectedly like to tweak at the gig, and if you don't have the control, you don't bother, but it would be nice if you could easily do it.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Wow, these look great. The control panel alone - with all those knobs, buttons, switches, and lights - will surely induce GAS among certain customers. I also appreciate separating the sound types into three individual sections.

 

James

x

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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Just this evening, rehearsal. Nord Stage 3 compact.

 

Upright didnt really make it through the rehearsal room PA. Added bright EQ via single button.

 

Couldnt this song use choir? Hm. Mellotron maybe.

Created split, added sample synth with Mellotron mixed choir, within 90 seconds.

Tried it during a run-through. Didnt make sense for the song.

Threw it out again, no harm done, minimal effort lost.

 

Oh, a Vox would be nice. Hadnt needed a Vox preset yet.

Built a Vox on the fly, chorus, nice reverb, some drive. Ready in thirty seconds. Minimal tweaking while playing.

Saved as new preset.

 

Kronos is fine if you take the time and prepare meticulously for a production, or provide options for every imaginable eventuality. Its a royal pain in the ass, but once its set up, its great.

 

Thats not how my life works.

"The Angels of Libra are in the European vanguard of the [retro soul] movement" (Bill Buckley, Soul and Jazz and Funk)

The Drawbars | off jazz organ trio

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I also appreciate separating the sound types into three individual sections.

A bit reminiscent of the Kawai MP11!

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I also appreciate separating the sound types into three individual sections.

A bit reminiscent of the Kawai MP11!

 

Ah, that's where I've seen it before! ;)

 

Actually, it was the MP10 that introduced this PIANO/E.PIANO/SUB approach (although the SUB section was on the right side of the display), and there were more knobs in each section than the MP11.

 

Cheers,

James

x

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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We must recall that Yamaha bizarrely left ancillary sounds that were on the CP-5 and CP-50 off the VERY expensive CP1. The 1 was heavy, but had a sturdy build and beautiful aesthetics from the display to the backlit Yamaha logo, tolex textured surface, heavy duty triple pedal, and the first to get that NW action. And there were aspects of the sound engine that were very purposeful to the limited sound set.

 

Point being, when they decide to spend money on design niceties it appears they also limit the sounds and usefulness.

 

Hopefully Im wrong and they intend to expand sound palette with firmware updates. I would not be surprised in this way either - as theyve been updating the Montage in lots of ways since release.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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I also appreciate separating the sound types into three individual sections.

A bit reminiscent of the Kawai MP11!

 

Ah, that's where I've seen it before! ;)

 

Actually, it was the MP10 that introduced this PIANO/E.PIANO/SUB approach (although the SUB section was on the right side of the display), and there were more knobs in each section than the MP11.

 

Cheers,

James

x

 

Still waiting for Kawai to put their prowess in action design into the MP7 successor that gets weight down. Even if they need to offer 88 and 76/73 versions.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Actually, it was the MP10 that introduced this PIANO/E.PIANO/SUB approach

I would say that GeneralMusic was first. As early as in 2003, their monstrous flagship piano Promega 3 had its sound palette divided in four sections: Pianos, Vintage Keys, Orchestral/Pad, and Bass/Other, much like the MP10 and other stage pianos of later years. The Promega 3 was really ahead of its time, with physical modelling, motorized faders, 320 notes polyphony(!) etc. So sad the company went into bankruptcy... (and I dont think the Finnish GeneralMusic company will have any chance of bringing the company back to where it was. Well, at least they have resurrected the Promega 3s little brother, the Promega 2... but thats another story...!) :)

 

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/gem-promega-3

 

https://www.generalmusic.com/

Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...!  🙄

main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live

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I also appreciate separating the sound types into three individual sections.

 

James

x

 

When you´re satisfied w/ three,- that´s good.

But what´s up when they upgrade content software wise and it doesn´t fit three sections anymore ?

Good too ?

 

A.C.

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Knobiness is really nice for players who don't always set up presets in advance.

 

That´s true for keyboardplayers using instruments w/o preset memory.

I love knobbyness on my Minimoog D, no questiion ...

But WHEN you buy a machine offering preset memory, I´m sure you´ll use that.

 

Also, knobiness simplifies the task of setting up your presets in advance.

 

Well,- we use more and more complex technology incl. preset memory since decades,- and exactly NOW, it needs simplification setting up presets.

Who believes that crap,- sorry.

 

Don´t buy a MACHINE if you don´t want one.

 

You want it simple® ?

Play piano and/or organ.

Both instruments offer enough complexity in the direction of playing ´em well.

 

FInally, sometimes you do get a sense of something you'd unexpectedly like to tweak at the gig, and if you don't have the control, you don't bother, but it would be nice if you could easily do it.

 

Unexpectedly ...

What shall that be when you prepared your performance well ?

I always assign 1 expression pedal to MIDI CC04 for "filter" (or other) modulation and then I have the wheels and the other expression pedal in addition.

 

I need my hands for playing and the feet are for special tasks.

 

A.C.

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Just this evening, rehearsal. Nord Stage 3 compact.

 

Upright didnt really make it through the rehearsal room PA. Added bright EQ via single button.

 

Couldnt this song use choir? Hm. Mellotron maybe.

Created split, added sample synth with Mellotron mixed choir, within 90 seconds.

Tried it during a run-through. Didnt make sense for the song.

Threw it out again, no harm done, minimal effort lost.

 

Oh, a Vox would be nice. Hadnt needed a Vox preset yet.

Built a Vox on the fly, chorus, nice reverb, some drive. Ready in thirty seconds. Minimal tweaking while playing.

Saved as new preset.

 

Kronos is fine if you take the time and prepare meticulously for a production, or provide options for every imaginable eventuality. Its a royal pain in the ass, but once its set up, its great.

 

Thats not how my life works.

 

Yeah, that's sort of my world as well. Make it sound good in the moment, save it if it's good. I think I overwrite maybe 25% of my patches during an average gig.

 

This new Yammie seems to be going after something much different. Not exactly sure what.

Want to make your band better?  Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band"

 

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They are trying to figure out why people are willing to dump $3k on a Nord Piano, how the heck the SV-1 had a great run, and why Crumar is generating buzz with an instrument like the Seven. Aluminum case, lighter weight (notable reason for the CP4s success), simpler retro styled 1 to 1 UI, continued library development post purchase, focus on great Acoustic Pianos and retro EPs, branded rolling cases that fit properly. Offered in 88k and 73k versions, I dont know, they are checking some boxes here and bringing it to market at $2-2.5k. And theyll have Yamaha actions in them.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Knobiness is really nice for players who don't always set up presets in advance.
That´s true for keyboardplayers using instruments w/o preset memory.

I love knobbyness on my Minimoog D, no questiion ...

But WHEN you buy a machine offering preset memory, I´m sure you´ll use that.

One of my bands has a repertoire of hundreds of songs, 95% of which use the same 20 or so sounds in some combination or another. I use song-specific presets sparingly. I prefer to grab the sounds I need as I need them. I'm not going to take the time to program those hundreds of songs into separate presets on even one of my boards. A board that makes it easier to get and adjust what I want in real time is preferable. Bonus: I can swap out the board at any time for a different board without having to program hundreds of songs into that one too. (BTW, there is also a benefit here in using two boards rather than one, especially if your one does not have such an immediate interface, since you can play one while seamlessly manipulating the other, without having to even think about split parameters.)

 

Also, knobiness simplifies the task of setting up your presets in advance.
Well,- we use more and more complex technology incl. preset memory since decades,- and exactly NOW, it needs simplification setting up presets.

Who believes that crap,- sorry.

 

Don´t buy a MACHINE if you don´t want one.

On the occasions where I do need to create a programmed synth sound in advance, I can program it into a knobby synth much faster than I can program it into a menu-based board. Same for programming in effects. With the real knobs, and the ability to easily go back and forth among the different controls and quickly tweak while you listen, it so much more efficient, and fun. Direct manipulation knobs rather than menu diving makes it feel more like operating an instrument and less like programming a computer. Even simply assembling any splits/layers I might need, their relative volumes, octave transposition, pedal assignments... quicker and more fun on a Nord Stage than on a Yamaha or Korg workstation. (Though Kronos got better after OS 3.1.) And as analogika said, there can also be a benefit to actually finding/assembling/tweaking these sounds during band rehearsal, as you play, in the context of what everyone else is playing. I've occasionally done that too. Depends on the band and the repertoire. Fun and efficient on a Nord, not something I'd want to do on a Kronos.

 

FInally, sometimes you do get a sense of something you'd unexpectedly like to tweak at the gig, and if you don't have the control, you don't bother, but it would be nice if you could easily do it.
Unexpectedly ...

What shall that be when you prepared your performance well ?

Your answer gets back to my first point... for that band, I hardly prepare. For the majority of songs that band does, I chart the chords, write out key riffs I need to play, make a note of which sounds I need... and the first time I play the song on the board I'm gigging with is actually at the gig. But that's not what I was talking about with this point, because that's "expected" stuff and here I was talking about "unexpected." For example, inspiration, which also gets back to analogika's scenario, not just for rehearsals, but even for gigs. An idea that comes to you as you're playing, that this part might sound nice if I... whatever. Bring in a different sound. Try a different effect. I understand, there are people who want to play everything the same way every time, but that's not everyone's approach, and if you like the idea of being able to mix things up on a whim, facilities for easy manipulations can be welcome. Or maybe it's not inspiration, maybe it's circumstance. Again, analogika's post, about something not sounding right in a room, or through the supplied sound system, whatever. Maybe you're playing with subs who are using sounds that don't mesh as well with your usual sounds. In a nutshell, these kinds of controls come in handy when you may not want to play something with exactly the sounds you used the time before, for whatever reason. You could get by with them, but you'd rather not.

 

I always assign 1 expression pedal to MIDI CC04 for "filter" (or other) modulation and then I have the wheels and the other expression pedal in addition

So what if you want something other than one of the 4 or so real-time controls you've programmed your wheels and pedals for? There's a real benefit to dedicated, well-placed, well-labeled knobs, with no programming required, always available. You don't have to decide before you get to the gig which parameters you might want to alter while you play a particular patch. You don't have sliders that are zone volume controls on patch A, drawbars on patch B, synth envelope controls on patch C, effects parameters on patch D, where you have to remember what slider does what and when... which means, for many people, you end up manipulating the same few things, or not doing any of it and just leaving everything as it was set at home. This is the kind of thing that makes the Nord Stage popular. These Yamahas don't have all that, but they do appear to give you quick, useful access to a lot of very useful functions.

 

I'm no trying to convince you that you need knobiness. Probably most people don't, at least based on how many non-knobby boards people buy. I'm just trying to show how there can still be a benefit, even if you have boards with presets. And btw, I've done tons of gigs without any such "hands-on" boards. It's just more fun when I have those controls.

 

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Just looking at the spec for the CP73, seems some people are suggesting its the same action as the Montage 8...not so sure. Montage is listed as Balanced Hammer Effect Keyboard (Initial Touch/Aftertouch), while the CP73 is BHS (Balanced Hammer Standard) keyboard: matte black keytops. Maybe the difference between hammer effect and hammer standard is lack of Initial Touch/Aftertouch?

 

I think the Balanced Hammer Effect Keyboard has been used in previous iterations of the Motif 88, Motif ES/XS as well as the S90 and S90ES? I always loved gigging with that action but the S90/ES were the only semi portable versions that allowed me to play that live. I'll defer to those who have played the CP73 and think this might be a lovely board to play live if the action is very close to the Montage 8.

Yamaha MODX8, Legend Live.
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Pretty cool boards......

 

It seems the CP88 has all the features I missed on my CP4

and miss on my Grandstage.

 

Can't wait to test one!

 

Studio: Hammond XK5-XLK5,  Roland Fantom 8, Kurzweil PC3A6, Prophet 5, Moog Sub37, Neo Vent, HX3-Expander, LB Organ Grinder

Live: Yamaha CP88, Yamaha Motif Rack ES, Hammond SKX Pro, Hammond XB2-HX3,  Kurzweil PC3-61, Leslie 251, Roland SA1000, Neo Vent2

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Just looking at the spec for the CP73, seems some people are suggesting its the same action as the Montage 8...not so sure. Montage is listed as Balanced Hammer Effect Keyboard (Initial Touch/Aftertouch), while the CP73 is BHS (Balanced Hammer Standard) keyboard: matte black keytops. Maybe the difference between hammer effect and hammer standard is lack of Initial Touch/Aftertouch?

Nope. "Initial Touch" is Yamaha's term for velocity sensitive, and the CP is certainly that. And the same actions can be implemented with or without aftertouch... Yamaha used the BHE without aftertouch on the MO8. So BHS is something new. The acronym actually makes me think it cold be a balanced (not graded) version of the GHS, but the reports of it feeling similar to a Montage 8 give me some cause for more optimism than that.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I hope Dave Ferris chimes in. His Facebook post talked about these new boards.

Yes! We need Mr CP4s thoughts on the replacements. ;)

 

Maybe Dave will go to NAMM and demo the new CPs.

 

 

 

 

.... Jeff /// Yamaha P515 /// Roll Tide
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One of my bands has a repertoire of hundreds of songs,...

 

tl:dr ...

In short,- I don´t dislike that keyboard design per sé.

 

I only dislike as a bottom tier keyboard because I´d like to have both actions of bottom tier- and top tier keyboard as close as possible together.

And in my rigs, the heavy piano action keyboard was the bottom tier instrument always up to now.

 

OTOH, I find the 73 model ideal for stacking on top of a (console) organ.

 

A.C.

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THe P121 is 22 lbs, plastic body, external power supply, almost no surface hardware. The CP73 is 28 lbs with aluminum body, internal supply, and a fair amount of switches and dials. This would suggest that if the CP73 isn't just a balanced version of GHS, it's at least very similar in terms of weight of the mechanism.

 

Anyway, we'll see soon enough. But my enthusiasm for the CP73 would take a big hit if the action felt closer to GHS than Montage.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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In short,- I don´t dislike that keyboard design per sé.

I only dislike as a bottom tier keyboard because I´d like to have both actions of bottom tier- and top tier keyboard as close as possible together.

I agree with you about that. Extensive control surfaces work best on top tiers, or in single-board rigs. Though to some extent, that can also be addressed by a design with a more vertical control surface, like Korg SV1.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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cp73 and modx 6 is what i am lining up as my next rig. been a while since i rigged yamaha. ok so korg showed us what they got # krome ex and kronos es, yamaha showed us the cp73 and 88.....now Roland my old friend, please show us that v synth sequal i need.

 

i miss the old Roland.

Nektar LX61+, iPad 9.7 Inch, Mainstage, Korg Kronos 2
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Dave is diggin the P-151 for home use moreso I believe. I think he prefers the more low-profile look and function of the CP4.

 CP-50, YC 73,  FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122

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Does anyone know if the P-515 keybed is 3 sensor?

When i researched before purchase, i had in my spreadsheet that it was triple sensor.

Do not remember the source though, as Yamaha doesnt specify on their site.

To repeat a note you have to let the key about halfway up, without the previous struck note going quiet.

According to posts ive seen from anotherscott, that would be triple sensor behavior.

 

Very odd that Yamaha does not specify on site though.

 

 

.... Jeff /// Yamaha P515 /// Roll Tide
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Ah, good clarification. o triple sensor can let you play some of the techniques that normally would require escapement, if you simply adjust your technique a bit and get used to the timing of the sensors in the keybed?

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1,

Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager

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To repeat a note you have to let the key about halfway up, without the previous struck note going quiet.

According to posts ive seen from anotherscott, that would be triple sensor behavior.

Yes, if you can lift the key enough to restrike the note without it going silent in between (when the pedal is not down), that's triple sensor behavior. It doesn't have to be "halfway" though... that can vary. PianoManChuck had a good video that showed the triple sensor behavior on a Casio and a Kawai, and how the Kawai let you retrigger from a much lower point than the Casio. But both were three-sensor.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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