Gigging with older gear.

[Chris Towns]

Hi,

 

I am not a pro player, I play for my own enjoyment at home. I have a Casio PX5-S and a Korg PA4X arranger keyboard (probably around $4,000 U.S. retail).

Recently I visited Las Vegas, and on the Strip in the corner of one of the Hotels is a bar called Duelling Piano's. They have two Grand piano's facing opposite each other which both had all the innards removed, and where the keyboards are they had replaced them with digital stage pianos. I inspected the stage pianos during the interval and noted they were Yamaha, but probably ten years old or more. I noticed during the performance that the piano sample was not very accurate. Despite that the player gave a magnificent performance, he could play superbly, was a great singer and a great entertainer.

 

I also stayed with my wife several years ago in Mexico at one of those enormous all inclusive Hotels (it had twelve restaurants). The resident band had a keyboard player with an electric piano that must have been over twenty years old (not weighted, and two missing notes and two broken notes. He was also a very accomplished musician.

Is it common for gigging musicians to use such antiquated equipment ? I understand many Forum members have state of the art equipment, but are us Forum members an exception to the rule ?

In respect of the Las Vegas pianist, it's easy to pick up a current basic digital piano for around £400 UK, $500 US, cheaper if you buy a one year old used model that would have an infinitely better piano sample, producing a more authentic sound.

 

I would be interested in other gigging members opinions.

 

Chris

[CEB]

It depends. I was born 52 years ago. 2 of my organs are older than I am. My amp was built in May of 65. My main pedal steel and 2 of my main guitars are all 40+ years old. I have some old digital gear but by in large the digital equipment I use out is fairly new. I have a D-50 and TX modules I like a lot but they stay home.

 

Generally once I become one with a piece of gear I like I latch on to it. There was and never will be a reason to replace the 71 Strat I got used in high school. I would hang on to keyboard stuff longer but I am playing new music. I played an XB-2 from 1991-2009.

[ElmerJFudd]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right tool for the right job. If you've own a rig and you're happy with how it sounds, you've probably spent a lot of time tweaking it for your gigs. So you've got user presets, program change data, splits and layers all worked out.

 

Now sometimes a switch to a new rig isn't totally from scratch. Some guys tend to stick with a brand because they know the user interface - for example Motif to Motif ES, to XS or XF. Or Kurzweil letting you bring programs and setups over via K2 files to PC3/K/A keyboards. But no doubt, there is always work to be done to get yourself back to where you were.

 

Not everyone can afford to "upgrade" yearly or even regularly. A lot of guys here play a keyboard for 10 or more years before deciding they'd like something new. Others have been very effective at staying ahead of the curve by buying the latest and greatest and selling them while they are still worth something to invest in the latest and greatest more quickly. It really depends on the player and their circumstances and habits.

[CEB]

I change gear a lot more than I used to.

 

Sometimes I hear stories about gear that inspires me to trade. I was happy with the RD-500 and would have played it longer but too many people were telling horror stories about hammers breaking. LOL

[zxcvbnm098]

I think those are two unique situations really.

 

In the case of Mexico, the standard of living down there can be low, and the cost of American instruments high. Clearly that guy was getting what he needed from his gear, and didn't have the economic opportunities many of us have when it comes to upgrading gear.

 

In the Vegas example, that sounds like those were house pianos for a very specific situation, that of dueling pianos. If that is at the Venetian, I think I've noticed that setup before. Likely whomever is responsible for the purchasing of equipment will not be agonizing over the quality of the piano samples, nor will patrons notice or care. They will be there until they break or they decide to revamp the whole system.

 

 

 

 

[RABid]

35 years ago I moved from drums to keyboards and joined my first working band. I was the young pup, just starting out and building my rig. I started out with a setup of a MiniMoog and Arp Omni II. A couple weeks later I added a Casio mini keyboard with 2 octaves to cover piano parts. The right notes and spot on timing got me by without the audience feeling a negative effect from the cheap keyboard.

 

The drummer and bass player in that band were veterans, having played together for over 20 years. Everyone used to give the drummer a hard time because he was playing the same kit that he used 20 years ago. A new kit would not have sounded much better, but he had the reputation of being a cheapskate. A cheapskate with the best day job in the band. Two years later the PA was stollen. That is when the drummer finally turned loose of some money. He bought a PA, a new drum set, and a house. All paid in full from money he had saved while being a cheapskate. There was a lesson to be learned there. Too bad I never ...

[Bif_]

It depends. I was born 52 years ago. 2 of my organs are older than I am.

 

And the rest are the same age as you......

 

I'm sorry. I just couldn't resist.

[The Real MC]

If you're playing in a house band, playing with older gear is a two edged sword. By leaving it there it is less likely to develop problems, but at the risk of it "growing legs".

 

If you're carting gear between venues or on tour, older gear is definitely risky. I am an EE and I maintain and upgrade my vintage gear to withstand gigging (few people are brave to gig a Memorymoog and Polymoog). I know how to keep these things reliable and everything is carted in Anvil cases. Not everything is durable enough for gigging - my old 1967 "sparkletop" Fender Rhodes simply is not rugged enough to withstand bumps, as the older Raymac tines don't hold their tuning.

 

One pet peeve of mine are wall warts. I will NEVER gig them. Some of my rack gear originally used wall warts but I have designed more rugged replacements for them.

[JohnDoe]

 

One pet peeve of mine are wall warts. I will NEVER gig them. Some of my rack gear originally used wall warts but I have designed more rugged replacements for them.

 

Can you tell just how you´ve done that?

Pics?

[Legatoboy]

We need a thread that talks about gigging with an older body...how about body warts.

 

 

[16251]

Old analog synths and Hammond organs are old and great.

 

Old digital pianos not so much.

[AnotherScott]

I started playing with a wedding band about 12 years ago with a Casio PX500L and a Yamaha S30. I've played those gigs with a bunch of different gear since then, but honestly, I could have just stuck with those two and done just fine.

 

[ElmerJFudd]

^^^

[BluesKeys]

I'm still gigging with the original Motif 6. It covers what I need. I have been keeping my eye out for another used Motif in case mine bites the dust.

[The Real MC]

 

One pet peeve of mine are wall warts. I will NEVER gig them. Some of my rack gear originally used wall warts but I have designed more rugged replacements for them.

 

Can you tell just how you´ve done that?

Pics?

 

One great device was the Juice Goose 12 Paq which unfortunately has been discontinued. They were great for eliminating wall warts.

 

I basically built my own power supply and installed them in a Hammond (not the organ company) hobby box which can be secured to the wall inside the rack.

[agitato]

Still gigging (solo and band gigs) with a kawai es4 since late 06. Am thinking about checking out the kawai es8/mp7 and the yamaha cp4 as possible replacements.

[Reezekeys]

Meanwhile we debate which of the latest Hammond clones has a .002% more realistic vibrato than the other ones.

[TommyRude]

Lots of successful gigging musicians playing with older gear. I think Coldplay is using this on their current tour.

 

[Pa Gherkin]

Parts availability can be a problem with older gear but I've found that the build quality of older stuff is far superior in general. Seems you have to pay through the nose for top of the line equipment in order to obtain a level of quality that was commonplace on midrange gear 15 to 20 years ago. Don't even get me started on wall warts and power bricks.

 

I've recently put together a rig that eliminates all but one power brick (Vent) and I'm loving the absence of thin,spindly,fragile DC wires and cheesy connectors. Oops,got myself started.

[Chris Towns]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the great replies, some really amusing.

 

I think what prompted me to start the thread was that I recently had a demo of a really cheap 76 note Yamaha arranger (around $260 US) which although not weighted, had a really impressive grand piano sample for the price. Keyboards are getting cheaper and voices on them are improving all the time. It just seems like you don't have to break the bank nowadays to get a fairly authentic piano sound from a budget keyboard.

[ElmerJFudd]

It's always about the music and the player. But if given the choice and/or budget the player will pick what they like the best regardless of price (high or low). Right tool for the job.

[Kenny Ingram]

Not to say there aren't great players using great gear, but when it comes to a performance, in most cases it's 99% the player and 1% the gear they're using. There's also countless examples of amazing musicians using the top of the line gear, but it's pretty obvious that if you threw an inexpensive keyboard in front of them, their technique and overall performance would transfer over. Play what works for your performance and budget!

[Outkaster]

Sorry but you want to use antiquated shit go ahead and I realize some of it is about budget. In order to put your best foot forward you have to upgrade sometimes. Especially talking digital piano's and organ clones. Not that it will make you a better player but it might help you feel better about playing. If you are talking about Hammond Consoles and Rhodes for example that is a whole different thing.

[RABid]

Not to say there aren't great players using great gear, but when it comes to a performance, in most cases it's 99% the player and 1% the gear they're using. There's also countless examples of amazing musicians using the top of the line gear, but it's pretty obvious that if you threw an inexpensive keyboard in front of them, their technique and overall performance would transfer over. Play what works for your performance and budget!

 

+1

 

I've seen a lot of concerts and performances where the keyboardist is using 10+ year old equipment. Early Motif versions still seem to be popular on tours.

[Stokely]

I think many of us go with newer gear primarily because it's easier to carry. I'm a big guy, not yet 50, enjoy powerlifting at a gym (to a point!) but I'd rather deal with lighter smaller boards. Not just the weight, but the stages are often small so smaller boards help a lot.

 

I watched a vid of Medeski playing some little hammond wind instrument. If I played it I'm sure the sound would be incredibly cheesy...he made it sing. So, yeah, the player counts more than the gear for styles that you actually play (vs more of a trigger cool sounds/arpeggios in sync player, takes much skill of a different sort but it heavily depends on the gear and patches...)

 

[synthizen2]

I'm still going strong with 10 to 20 year-old boards. They have all the sounds I need, I have programmed them to death for my needs, I love the action and build quality, the band loves my sounds and my playing, the audience doesn't care what brands I play or how old they are, everything works. DON'T FIX IT IF IT AIN'T BROKEN.

 

Of course if this were the mid-1980s and not the mid-2010's, it might be different. Technology and its introduction of new sounds and new sound-producing concepts was a HUGE thing back then, with the introduction of the DX7 and samplers. These days, all the new stuff is just new variations on old themes... and sometimes the build quality suffers. I am at this "middle ground" that I am comfortable with, and works for me in the present paradigm/predicament.

 

[Synthoid]

I think many of us go with newer gear primarily because it's easier to carry we gotta have it.

 

Fixed.

 

 

 

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

OMG - how did you get that cam into my house, stalker!

[Synthoid]

[Bosendorphen]

I"ve been gigging for 40 years and on two recent gigs with a blues band I used my Alesis QS7 and then a Kawai K4. I know them both well and have programmed them quite a bit and they got me through and we went over great. So those synths are about 19 and 26 years old (at least when I bought them).

 

I would gig with my Polysix but would rather do a longer gig and definitely indoors.

 

I have more recent stuff in my studio and that's where it's staying.