Key B Organs, what's happened to them ?

[cgiles]

Dazzjazz, still got yours? Any problems? Any plans to get the new Legend? Gig with it? I still don't find much not to like with my Duo Mk111 but am still apprehensive about a potential repair situation. So far, so good.

 

chas

[mate stubb]

I always thought they sounded impressive in web clips. I hope to get my hands on one to try some day.

[Jg53]

I don't know what it is but the Legend just sounds like a real organ to me. Right now better than the XK5 although there have not been any great vids of the XK. Hope the Legend makes it to US distribution via Viscount. Vids posted by chelsea4023 just sound damn good.

[dazzjazz]

Hi Chas,

 

Yes I've still got mine and love it.

Mine has been super reliable over the 3.5 years I've had it. I've done about 300 gigs on it so far. Only issue was in a venue with bad power - the MkIII remained playable, the only weirdness was the same sound was on both manuals. Restart fixed it. Only happened once.

 

Elvio will be sending me a Legend as part of my endorsement. Looking forward to it.

 

I've sold a few KeyB organs to customers here in Australia, one of whom managed to fry his controller board using the wrong expression pedal. It was a simple replacement job.

 

Dazzjazz, still got yours? Any problems? Any plans to get the new Legend? Gig with it? I still don't find much not to like with my Duo Mk111 but am still apprehensive about a potential repair situation. So far, so good.

 

chas

[Delaware Dave]

This keyboard: https://youtu.be/EdaOnNgDQEg

 

sounds more to my liking than this does:

 

 

The KeyB Legend is the closest thing I have heard yet to the real deal from a tone point of view. I still like the Mojo's C/V shimmer a little better, but I like the tone and the leslie of the Legend better and if it were a contest I'd give the nod to the Legend overall. It has a warmth I just don't hear in the other clones.

[Markay]

I have heard Darren's KeyB live on several occasions and it sounds sweet to my ears and to those in audience judging by their response.

 

Darren has released a CD 'Playbar' which features the KeyB for those interested in hearing a CD quality recording of the KeyB. Head over to this link for some samples.

[Doerfler]

Darren has released a CD 'Playbar' which features the KeyB for those interested in hearing a CD quality recording of the KeyB

 

I purchased a copy of this when it was released. Excellent jazz organ trio music.

[CEB]

I wish Viscount good luck with that.

[Outkaster]

I don't know what it is but the Legend just sounds like a real organ to me. Right now better than the XK5 although there have not been any great vids of the XK. Hope the Legend makes it to US distribution via Viscount. Vids posted by chelsea4023 just sound damn good.

 

Have you played and XK5 next to a KeyB?

[vanderSchoot]

I think all clone brands would do many potential buyers a huge, huge favour to stop putting vids online to promote their product with the same old approach.

 

1 playing 90% of the demo on the o so familiar jazz settings, that all sound sterile through a clone+internal sim.

2 playing fast- extremely fast riffs that 80-90% of the potential buyers can only dream of. It focusses on ability, where sound should be the main criterea.

3 playing DIFFERENT styles a Hammond COULD be usefull for, instaed of preaching for a dying jazz scene repeating the same old tricks, licks and settings.

 

Through my work as a pianotuner i have been involved in the jazz scene for quite some years........ the audience is 55+ and at times even (much) older. Why for crying out loud is the majority of clone demos geared towards jazz, some way or another ?

A big kudos to Nord who occasionally have some good rock demos and demonstrators as that girl (forgot her name) during Namm.

 

Shouldn't all clone manufactors realise that besides a convincing sound, is to convince younger musicians about the goodness a Hammond can add in many different styles of music ? Funk, soul, rock and why not dance music ? Instaed of pleasing a few old jazzers who have less and less money to buy future products ?

 

I really don't get the marketing strategy of many brands....... but i suppose it works for the time being........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Outkaster]

That's because they cater to the same crowd all the time VanderSchoot.

[Jazzmammal]

Exactly, just look at this forum. Who's expressing any interest in these things? Jazzers and classic rockers with both about the same age. Not much new stuff anywhere in these clone threads but of course that is your point VanderShoot.

 

The big question is does this forum reflect the overall potential market for organs? Considering how many industry insiders there are here I suspect it does.

 

Bob

[Mitch Towne]

Probably because the traditional jazz sound is where the rubber meets the road. It's the hardest to really get right. Any clone going back to the XK-2 can sound ok with a bunch of drawbars pulled, no C/V and drenched in distortion. But only recently has the Jimmy Smith sound become more in reach.

[LX88]

If an organ can do jazz, it can do anything.

 

In my Hammond rental business, nobody asks for more grunge out of the organ. They want a clear, undistorted sound.

 

When I first heard the Key B sound I fell in love with it and the thing is, they do very little as far as "upgrades" are concerned. It drives me crazy that this week's organ is not next week's organ. It reminds me of audiophiles in the 80's. Constantly changing.

 

It's not that hard to get creative if you have a basic good sound to work with. I can get grunge out of a Numa in a variety of ways. I got it 5 years back knowing I had something to work with and I can make it do a variety of things with different amps and speakers.

 

Also - shops like Guitar Center don't seem to understand who has the money. Many times it is not the youngsters. It's the older guys with pensions and investments.

 

 

[vanderSchoot]

I think i understand what you guys are saying.......

 

Still disagree somewhat........

My Numa (KeyB engine) falls severely short when playing rock COMPARED to HX3,....no matter wich amount of drive and leakage i dial in.....

And i rarely use ''John Lord'' drive, but that creamy overdriven and soulfull sound that is so difficult for clones to mimic,

 

The new KeyB Legend (i played it myself at the Messe and had two long conversations and presentations by Elvio himself....) does overdriven sounds at least 3 times better than the original KeyB and could well be in HX3 or Mojo territory.....

 

But what we hear is what we allready knew... KeyB (and prior to that Diversi )sounds warm and is very good at jazz settings incl. a top notch sim, percussion and spot on chorus.

 

So i don't dismiss jazz examples, but want way more rock (not just fully overdriven deep purple sound, but Santana like, Uriah Heep, )....blues sounds...and for heaven's sake not the 100the ''JAZZ blues in F'', but Eric Clapton / Billy Preston kinda blues,famous pop tunes (whiter shade of pale, green onions and the likes....) a full blown gospel sound, funky stuff and also new territories so that a new generation will appreciate the Hammond just like we do......why would a Hammond not fit in modern styles ? If the cheezy sounding compressed sampled rompler M1 / D50 ''Hammond'' can make it into hundreds of house and dance tracks of the past two decades, i cannot believe why a ''real'' Hammond shouldn't try to make an attempt......

The whole house scene is responsible for reloading the dying analogue synth...... if the house scene of the early nineties didn't rediscover the goodies of analogue/ virtual analogue i could probably buy a Jupiter 8 for 400 bucks right now......Who would have thought in the late eighties that FM synthesis would be overtaken by the second coming of (virtual)analogue..

 

Is this all to much to ask for ? I have heard enough jazz orientated promos.....time for an update, because the sonic abilities of a Hammond are endless....unless we don't really want to share our Hammond with other styles of music.....

 

 

 

 

[Al Quinn]

I get your point and agree. I personally love the Hammond sound just as much in rock, blues, R&B, soul, country, pop, fusion, and gospel as in jazz.

[Outkaster]

OK so Jazz organ is one type of sound. Mitch/LX88 it maybe tough to get right but it sounds boring after awhile. Every freakin demo on Facebook or any other forum for clones is all that same registration with percussion. What about Gospel organ players? They are on another level and probably make up more of the population than anyone because a Hammond is central to their churches worship as the kitchen is to Italian households. I know as Sal and Tom did a lot of work with churches....especially in the south. At any rate those players are monsters and I personally believe they will dust most players.

[vanderSchoot]

I get your point and agree. I personally love the Hammond sound just as much in rock, blues, R&B, soul, country, pop, fusion, and gospel as in jazz.

[vanderSchoot]

OK so Jazz organ is one type of sound. Mitch/LX88 it maybe tough to get right but it sounds boring after awhile. Every freakin demo on Facebook or any other forum for clones is all that same registration with percussion. What about Gospel organ players? They are on another level and probably make up more of the population than anyone because a Hammond is central to their churches worship as the kitchen is to Italian households. I know as Sal and Tom did a lot of work with churches....especially in the south. At any rate those players are monsters and I personally believe they will dust most players.

Yes !! I agree there are probably lots of Gospel orientated players out there... who are looking for something different than 888.000.000 third percusion, stop / fast and C3 chorus. Gospel players are indeed among the best i've ever heard on the Hammond organ, but rarely, if at all, are they chosen to demonstrate a new clone. I guess it's a jazzer's territory and they all somehow confirm (both reps and players) that that's the way new clones should be demonstrated to the general public.

[LX88]

Jazz organ sound is boring????

 

It depends on what is played on it as far as I am concerned.

 

There are all kinds of subtle little things you can do to alter the sound of an organ. Everybody treats it a little differently.

 

The sound I get from a Numa is largely dependent on what I run it through. It likes low tech speakers without too much high end. Powered PA monitors generally don't work. It does sound good through the preamp of my B-3 and 122.

 

The Numa could benefit from a different response curve from its tone controls but I remedy that by using a simple Yamaha mixer. I add some mid boost and bass boost. Has worked for me for 5 plus years.

 

So I am curious what Key B is up to now.

 

 

[JohnnyB3]

Jazz organ sound is boring????

 

It depends on what is played on it as far as I am concerned.

 

There are all kinds of subtle little things you can do to alter the sound of an organ. Everybody treats it a little differently.

 

The sound I get from a Numa is largely dependent on what I run it through. It likes low tech speakers without too much high end. Powered PA monitors generally don't work. It does sound good through the preamp of my B-3 and 122.

 

The Numa could benefit from a different response curve from its tone controls but I remedy that by using a simple Yamaha mixer. I add some mid boost and bass boost. Has worked for me for 5 plus years.

 

So I am curious what Key B is up to now.

 

Heres what theyve been up to: KeyB Legend at 2016 Musikmesse:

 

[video:youtube]

 

[video:youtube]

 

[video:youtube]

 

[video:youtube]

 

[keyClicker]

Nice...

[LX88]

The above Key B legend clips sound damn good to me.

 

I am not wild about the player, but first of all thank you to whoever for NOT running the leslie sim at the same time as the chorus vibrato, OK. Like one of the latest clone clips we have heard.

 

Oh ... and they also " forgot" to turn on the overdrive and possibly the leakage. Imagine that!

 

I guess that dying jazz scene crap is inconsequential regarding smart marketing strategies anyway. I wonder what makes it keep coming back?

[ElmerJFudd]

It's a players' style now. Player's own it. They keep it alive and pass it on like a cherished secret. It's a great basis for any style you'd like to absorb, because like gospel, it evolves and absorbs elements of other styles all the time. What happens is once you get into it, a lot of guys decide they don't want to leave. What for? Money? They have skills to sit in on most any gig. But money isn't everything and players make the music they want regardless of trends. The organ has so many voices, maybe infinite if you think of new tones like adding new stops, anything is possible. Even the tried and true rock timbres, distortion, leakage are old hat these days - the sound of dinosaurs walking among us. What's next for the organ? There's possibilities, but who are clone makers marketing to? Mainly guys interested in creating the classic tones of jazz, gospel, rock, blues. So that's what the demos tend to be.

[vanderSchoot]

I guess that dying jazz scene crap is inconsequential regarding smart marketing strategies anyway. I wonder what makes it keep coming back?

Jazz isn't crap....who told you that ? The ORIGINAL jazz scene IS dying, the hard numbers show that. The North Sea Jazz festival in my country has long abbandoned pure jazz, it is a ''world music'' festival now. Funk, pop, world and jazz music.

 

But only the manufactors of clones present their new organs as if the jazz scene is very much alive and kicking.....judging them through the vast majority of demo's.

 

 

[Outkaster]

Jazz organ sound is boring????

 

It depends on what is played on it as far as I am concerned.

 

There are all kinds of subtle little things you can do to alter the sound of an organ. Everybody treats it a little differently.

 

The sound I get from a Numa is largely dependent on what I run it through. It likes low tech speakers without too much high end. Powered PA monitors generally don't work. It does sound good through the preamp of my B-3 and 122.

 

The Numa could benefit from a different response curve from its tone controls but I remedy that by using a simple Yamaha mixer. I add some mid boost and bass boost. Has worked for me for 5 plus years.

 

So I am curious what Key B is up to now.

 

Heres what theyve been up to: KeyB Legend at 2016 Musikmesse:

 

[video:youtube]

 

[video:youtube]

 

[video:youtube]

 

[video:youtube]

Most of these clips kind of sound the same. He is a great player.

[Jg53]

That dog can bark and without a Leslie, impressive. Viscount is a well established company if they get hold of her she may run well! We shall see.

[Delaware Dave]

Even with the internal leslie the Legend sounds awesome. I wasn't overly impressed with the overdrive but I generally prefer a clean organ so this wouldn't be an issue for me. If they can get the marketing/distribution/service/support piece together they could have a real winner. What's the price point?

 

[Al Quinn]

Great sounding instrument! I'll stick with my Mojo because I'm really happy and gear churn is expensive and time consuming. But if I was in the market for a new clone I'd definitely consider the Key B.

[Jg53]

Price point I have a feeling won't be less than $3,000. So will be more than the mojo for sure. Might be closer to the XK5 in price. But the LIVE version I think will compete close to the mojo in price. Just speculation at this point.