Key B Organs, what's happened to them ?

[Chris Towns]

Hi,

I have a Numa 2 organ (single keyboard) and eventually would like to change to a Key B twin manual (used or new), but scouring the 'for sale' ads in Ebay and Gumtree in the U.K. I never come across any. New models are an even bigger problem, as the U.K. distibutor (Music World, Northampton) has no stock for the forseeable future (new or used).

Anything on the internet about these organs is at least 12 months out of date.

Can anybody throw some light on what is going on at Key B ?

Chris

[Mitch Towne]

I have heard from a very reliable source that the new KeyB Legend will be in production very soon.

[Chris Towns]

Hi Mitche,

That's great news. I hope it's reasonably priced so it sells well.

Chris

[Tobias Åslund]

As I understand it the Numa 2 does not have a KeyB engine - it's a proprierty Fatar Studiologic product. The Numa 1 (which I just recently bought), does however have the KeyB engine, and reportaly it sounds a lot more authentic.

The Orla JamKey is also available with KeyB engine inside - I just recently got this confirmed by Orla on the Jamkey FaceBook page.

And one thing about the KeyB Legend - that is an entirely new product, and the sound engine is actually designed in Norway, by this company:

 

http://www.ultrafunk.com/

 

Other than that - AFAIK the DLQ KeyB company is still active.

[LX88]

There are things about the Key B concept that to this day make me think that the Numa ( one) was the best clone that you could get from an American music store source.

 

Overall, I like its warmth. It could have benefitted a bit better EQ ing , but much of that is available if you run through a decent mixer.

 

I haven't purchased a dedicated dual manual yet and I have probably held out for a Key B, but I am also not confident that they are a stable company to deal with.

 

So that is why I jumped on the Numa 5 years ago and have been basically satisfied.

 

I hope for good things from the latest designs.

[bill bosco]

just read DLQ will be at musikmesse this year , will be interesting

[vanderSchoot]

I briefly played and heard the KeyB during the Messe (2014 ? ) and althaugh it did sound very similar to my Numa organ, it was better, more rounded, overall pleasing and better key to ear connection.

 

I personally am a big fan of the KeyB's leslie simulation approach ....... the only one that can fool almost anyone in a small and intimite setting.More real than the vent...

The only small negative about the KeyB sound is that it doesn't maintain all those strenghts mentioned above in a certain band context. It becomes a tad shrill and cold when the volume is increased to catch up with heavy guitars. But hey that is the case with all other clones too, except for the one i will not mention to avoid opening yet another wormcan .......... hahaha

[JohnnyB3]

just read DLQ will be at musikmesse this year , will be interesting

 

I hope you're right, but could you have read something related to 2015? They exhibited at the 2015 Musikmesse. I don't see them listed for 2016:

https://musik.messefrankfurt.com/frankfurt/en/besucher/ausstellersuche.searchresult.html?q=&start=0&az=true

 

[JohnnyB3]

Other than that - AFAIK the DLQ KeyB company is still active.

 

I hope you are right, but I have to wonder if a company that has not updated their web site in a year, has a Facebook page not updated since June 17, 2015 and no response to a Facebook page comment: "Is KeyB still alive ???" made on January 24th 2016 -- I have to wonder if they are still "alive". If they are alive, then they are as "active" as a hibernating bear. I hope they return soon. Their last (latest) organ (using the KeyB Duo engine), the Keyb Live sounds real nice:

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

[Mitch Towne]

Again...reliable source says yes.

[cgiles]

I play my KeyB Duo Mk111 every day and pray that it doesn't ever crap out. I have no idea where I'd go to get it repaired. It's been rock solid so far and I like it better than my old C3. I also have a C2D hooked up to my 3300 but I think the KeyB through a pair of powered monitors (EV SXa250's) sounds even better with just the built-in sim. JMO though, of course. Hope Elvio is still alive and kicking and planning on keeping the brand alive.

 

chas

[Outkaster]

Man it sounds great.

[M_G]

 

AFAIK KeyB/DLQ will be at Messe next week.

My source told me that the "Legend" will be shipping in April....we'll see...

 

[JohnnyB3]

Again...reliable source says yes.

Great! From a reliable source, from a reliable source...

 

http://www.keyborgan.com/img/musik.jpg

 

 

 

 

[Chris Towns]

Hi,

Just a small point. I have now sent two emails to Key B/DLQ headquarters via their designated email address in the last week and neither have been answered. A simple 'yes we have received your email and will reply in the near future' would suffice !!!

What is the point of having great products if the company (albeit a one man band) cannot extend the courtesy of responding to simple emails.

Chris

[Jg53]

They don't respond to emails and they don't sell anything. All smoke and mirrors. After all it's just a "legend". Doesn't really exist.

[JohnnyB3]

just read DLQ will be at musikmesse this year , will be interesting

 

Yes. It's listed under "Dietrolequinte di Elvio Previati"

(Not under DLQ or KeyB)

 

 

[Jg53]

You can see it hear it and touch it but if you try to buy it , poof, it disappears! The legend goes on.

[Chris Towns]

Hi,

 

I originally posted this thread purely to enquire about the current 'state of play' regarding DLQ and the Key B range of organs. I just happened to point out that I currently own a Numa 2 and was interested in purchasing a Key B organ ( I want a two manual model and Numa don't do them ).

 

This for some reason prompted Mr T from Sweden to inform me that he has just purchased an original Numa organ and it is apparently more authentic than the Numa 2.

I am deeply sorry to Mr T for 'bursting his bubble' and have enclosed a review from Keyboard magazine of the Numa 2 organ.

 

http://www.keyboardmag.com/gear/1183/studiologic-numa-organ-2-reviewed/49445

 

In this,Stephen Fortner (who incidentally reviewed the original Numa organ) reviews the Numa 2 (alongside the original Numa organ again) and has this to say.

The Numa 2 keyboard feel is excellent and fast and quieter than the original Numa organ. There is only one organ sound on the original Numa (B3) whereas the Numa 2 gives multiple organ models (B3, C3, A100, Vox Continental, Farfisa and Church Diapason). The overdrive on the Numa 2 is improved over the original Numa, it's not buzzy and fizzy but now warm and tube like. The Numa 2 leslie has subtle improvements over the original Numa. Stephen Fortner goes on to say the Numa 2 has the same sense of spaciousness, breath and clear definition of drawbar tones as the original Numa, yet he definitely hears improvements in the Numa 2 overall sonic authenticity over the original Numa. The Numa 2 is more open and less phasey than the original Numa.

 

Now I don't know Stephen Fortner, but I do know Keyboard magazine that he writes for and has been doing so since the original Numa review in 2012. My gut instinct would be to take his opinions over the people who reportedly told Mr T from Sweden that the original Numa sounds more authentic than the Numa 2. That's not the opinion of Stepen Fortner and Keyboard magazine.

I genuinely hope Mr T thoroughly enjoys his time with his original Numa organ, it's just a shame that he did not save a few more Krona and treat himself to the Numa 2 organ. That really sounds like a Hammond !!!

 

Chris

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Don't be offended, Chris. There are other reasons to prefer the 2 including that the preset keys are available as an extra octave when using it as a controller and it has pitch and mod wheels which also give it some additional usefulness in controller mode. For simple synth parts it also does sawtooth and square wave. The 2 is also compact, light, and yet of sturdy build.

 

If the original KeyB engine were the end all of organ clones then there wouldn't be any love for Crumar/VB3, Hammond, Nord, or for KeyB/DLQ to be pursuing Legend (which for now remains vaporware along with the rest of their products, at least for US buyers and I suspect everywhere else too - maybe we'll see different come Musik-Messe).

 

In the meanwhile, enjoy your Numa 2. It really has no competition feature to price. The alternative would have been the Hammond Xk-1c and very soon the Crumar Mojo61 - which is not vaporware but not quite available yet either. Neither of them double as a controller as well as the Numa 2, but the Mojo61 will give you a Rhodes and Wurly sound should you need them quick from the same board.

[Chris Towns]

Hi,

I'm honestly not offended by Mr T's post. I just feel a little sorry for him for being misled by people into thinking he'd bought a better keyboard than the Numa 2, although I'm sure he will be very happy with it.

I have managed to find a very good condition used Key B 'Live' model that I will be picking up in the very near future, so the Numa 2 has been placed on Ebay here in the U.K.

Chris

p.s. One thing I really don't like about the Numa 2 is the fact it only has one set of drawbars. You can set the upper section with them, and then set the lower section with them. Once you do that, you haven't got a clue what the upper drawbar settings are. That's a real pain. I hope that makes sense.

[ElmerJFudd]

Sure.

On the topic of KeyB engine it's been said on this forum on a few occasions that the 1 has it and the 2 does not. There's a few people who have owned both that have been really clear that they prefer the 1. I assume generally that's where the feeling comes from, discounting the Keyboard Mag article flat out. Like anything, there's no accounting for personal preferences. So as a player, one just needs to make a pick, work it into their rig and see if it does the job. If it doesn't, for example where you find you can't work with one set of draw bars, then you move on. It's just a keyboard. There's always another to try. On live manipulation of both manuals, of course one set of drawbars is a short coming, unless you can work with presets.

[analogholic]

Hi,

I'm honestly not offended by Mr T's post. I just feel a little sorry for him for being misled by people into thinking he'd bought a better keyboard than the Numa 2, although I'm sure he will be very happy with it.

I have managed to find a very good condition used Key B 'Live' model that I will be picking up in the very near future, so the Numa 2 has been placed on Ebay here in the U.K.

Chris

p.s. One thing I really don't like about the Numa 2 is the fact it only has one set of drawbars. You can set the upper section with them, and then set the lower section with them. Once you do that, you haven't got a clue what the upper drawbar settings are. That's a real pain. I hope that makes sense.

 

Sorry but I don't get this.

The Numa (1) has the KeyB engine. You felt sorry for Mr T that he didn't get the "superior"

sounding Numa 2.

Now you want to swap your "superior" sounding Numa 2 for KeyB live which has the same engine as the Numa (1) aka "inferior" sounding ?!?!?

 

[Chris Towns]

Analogholic,

 

You obviously did not read the thread before posting. I have not said at any stage that the Numa 2 was "superior" to the original Numa organ. The only person to use the word "superior" in this thread is you. I was making enquiries about Key B organs (read the thread heading). I stated that I have a Numa 2 organ (single manual) and I wanted to get a Key B organ (double manual). If Numa made double manual organs I would buy one of them, but they don't. Are you with me so far ?

 

It was at this point Mr T (from Sweden) stated that he had bought the original Numa organ and reportedly it sounds a lot more authentic (his words, not mine) than the Numa 2 organ. All I did then was post a link to a review of the Numa 2 Organ reviewed by Stephen Fortner. For the benefit of yourself and others I have now posted links to reviews of both the Numa organ and the Numa 2 organ from the same 'Keyboard' magazine by the same person two years apart. Stephen Fortner is the person who say's that the Numa 2 organ is a better sounding organ than the original Numa organ. Not me, I never said that the Numa 2 sounds better than the original Numa organ.

I'll say it once more, Stephen Fortner of Keyboard magazine say's that the Numa 2 organ sounds better than the original Numa organ, not me.

I have put links to the reviews for you to read.

 

http://www.keyboardmag.com/NumaOrgan

 

http://www.keyboardmag.com/gear/1183/studiologic-numa-organ-2-reviewed/49445

 

Analogolhic as you seem to know what is "superior" sounding in the clone world perhaps you can give us your worldly knowledge and tell me which two manual clone is "superior" to the others !!!

 

Chris

[ElmerJFudd]

Me personally, I'd be leery of KeyB in the US - totally unrelated to how the Live sounds, but rather no access to parts and service. And even if there is a company to speak with, which at times that's been questionable, do they even have inventory of anything? I mean, the price would have to be a total steal to take the risk. Digital keyboards isn't like buying guitars at all.

[Tobias Åslund]

...This for some reason prompted Mr T from Sweden to inform me that he has just purchased an original Numa organ and it is apparently more authentic than the Numa 2.

I am deeply sorry to Mr T for 'bursting his bubble' and have enclosed a review from Keyboard magazine of the Numa 2 organ.

 

http://www.keyboardmag.com/gear/1183/studiologic-numa-organ-2-reviewed/49445

 

[...]

 

I genuinely hope Mr T thoroughly enjoys his time with his original Numa organ, it's just a shame that he did not save a few more Krona and treat himself to the Numa 2 organ. That really sounds like a Hammond !!!

 

Chris

Whoaaa... Some people are easily offended... I was simply saying that I have yet not read any confirmation that the Numa 2 in fact has a KeyB engine inside - and that was actually my whole point. In the original Numa marketing campaign they made a big deal about it being developed together with DLQ/KeyB , and I might even be wrong in saying that the organ engine of the Numa 2 is developed by Studiologic alone.

The fact that still remains is - I have bought a used Numa Organ, an earlier white model (with a lower serial number that can't be upgraded to the Numa 2 engine), that to my eyes looks a lot better than the Numa Organ 2. To my ears it sounds better than my Nord Stage 2 and even than my Hammond E112 from 1965, simply beacuse it reminds me more of the sound of a B3, while the E112 sounds more like a L100, to my ears, of course.

 

For full disclosure:

I bought the Numa from another long time forum member, whom I've met in person two times. We have talked about lots of different pianos and organs, we've had coffee in my apartment, we've had a couple of beers at a conferrence we both attended and we played a couple of tunes on my electronic keyboards. Do I trust this person's opinion and would I buy another instrument from him? Undoubtably yes!

Do I trust mr Fortners opinion? Yes of course!

 

The main point here is that it is all opinions - and while mr Fortner represent keyboard magazine, his words are not absolute fact to me. Organs are musical instruments used to play music and to express ones feelings and emotions. We are not talking about astro physics, where everything can and should be proved by mathematical equations.

I once bought a space station amp, the original one, based on a single keyboard magazine review. The Keyboard report praised the SpaceStation - I hate the sound of it and strongly disagree with the reviewer, whoever he or she might have been - the SpaceStation sounds bad, and even Mr Aspen Pitman himself has apologized for this product which was released to early. Lesson learned - never trust a single reviewer and try before buy...

 

Now again, the Numa that I have has had the tonewheel model replaced and it now has the Joey DeFrancesco C3 model inside - and again it sounds really nice!

 

The forum member who sold me the Numa has tried basically every available clonewheel organ on the market. He had the Mojo for a while, but didn't really connect with it. He bought also the Numa Organ 2 and tried it side by side the white Numa Organ, but thought that the 2 sounded wimpy in comparison. I had a similar experience when I went from my Electro 3 to Stage 2 - through the i ternal Leslie sim, the Electro 3 has more bite and aggresivness, that I like. Anyway - yes, no matter what others might think, I do trust the sellers opinion.

 

The original Numa had a lot higher price than the Numa 2 has today, but I assure you, Chris, that I have not waisted my precious Kronas - I've paid about as much as a new Numa Organ 2would cost, and the Numa Organ I got is very well cared for, so you do not need to worry more about me, but thanks anyway! I also got a soft gigbag, original box and all documentation, and a really good deal on a Studiologic VMK161 p,us organ so I couldn't be happier!

 

Please Chris, read my original post again, reflect a couple of minutes, and then think about if you really think that it deserved an outburst like you wrote a couple of days ago:

 

As I understand it the Numa 2 does not have a KeyB engine - it's a proprierty Fatar Studiologic product. The Numa 1 (which I just recently bought), does however have the KeyB engine, and reportaly it sounds a lot more authentic.

I am passionate about my instruments, but I am not here to hurt peoples feelings and or to say that I am right and everyone else is wrong, so please, try not to get offended by this or any other of my posts.

 

Now I will go enjoy a nice hotel breakfast here in Sundsvall, right in the center of Sweden. I hope you all have a nice day!

Peace!

 

/Tobias, Örebro, Sweden

[Tobias Åslund]

Don't be offended, Chris. There are other reasons to prefer the 2 including that the preset keys are available as an extra octave when using it as a controller and it has pitch and mod wheels which also give it some additional usefulness in controller mode. For simple synth parts it also does sawtooth and square wave. The 2 is also compact, light, and yet of sturdy build.

 

All of this except the square and sawtooth mode is all true for the Numa 1 as well. The UI and midi functions should be the same as well. This is the original NUMA 1:

 

http://www.synthax.de/media/images/studiologic/Numa-Organ-1d.jpg

 

Maybe you are thinkin about the KeyB Solo single manual organ..?

 

http://www.keyborgan.com/olderproducts/solo/

 

The reason I bought the Numa is because with the pitch&mod wheels and the full six octave it makes a great controllers as well!

[Chris Towns]

Hi,

 

Mr T, may I ask who is offended in this thread, because it certainly is not me.

I originally started this thread to enquire about the Key B organs and the company that make them. The clue is in the thread title, 'Key B Organs, what's happened to them '.I was purely asking about Key B organs, nothing else.

 

In your first post you said you had purchased an original Numa organ and then stated that it reportedly sounded more authentic than a Numa 2 organ. You provided nothing to back up these claims. I simply responded in my post that the Numa 2 organ was considered to be more authentic than the original Numa organ. To back this up, I provided links to two reviews both by the same person (Stephen Fortner) who happens to be a professional keyboard player who worked for ten years for Keyboard magazine (six of those as Technical editor). The two reviews are of the two Numa organs we are discussing. Both organs received exceptional reviews.

Now this is the most important fact, when Stephen reviewed the Numa 2 organ, he had the original Numa organ alongside to be able to do A-B comparisons. From these comparisons he states in the review that he definitely hears improvements in the Numa 2 overall sonic authenticity over the original Numa, which along with subtle improvements in the leslie sim and the overdrive make it a more authentic organ.

 

If I can quote you: Please Chris, read my original post again, reflect a couple of minutes, and then think about if you really think that it deserved an outburst like you wrote a couple of days ago:

 

Now this statement really baffles me. I was not offended by your original post, I simply posted the views of a highly regarded musician/ journalist followed by two glowing reviews of both organs. Which was then followed by a comparison of both organs (in the second review) with Mr Fortner declaring the Numa 2 the marginal winner. I fail to see how this can be regarded as an 'outburst'.

 

 

I do however await backup to the claims you made in your first post that the original Numa organ 'reportedly' sounds more authentic than the Numa 2 organ.

 

One thing I find a little strange in your second post is that you say, Do I trust mr Fortners opinion? Yes of course! then further down your post you say, never trust a single reviewer................You either trust him or you don't !!!

 

Regarding your last post, I assume this reply is for Elmer JFudd as he made the post that you refer to.

 

I hope we can all get back on the thread subject regarding Key B organs now as that's what I am really interested in.

 

Chris

[Jg53]

With the new Hammond XK 5 coming it will be way to risky to go KeyB if you are in the USA. There is no support even if you could get one here and he could go out of business at the drop of a hat. Shame as the KeyB is absolutely the best sounding clone I ever heard. Hoping Hammond finally gets the B3 sound right. We will see soon.

[Jg53]

Maybe Hammond got a license from UltraFunk. That is who makes the engine for the KeyB. We will never know as they are extremely secretive about who builds stuff for them. But that would be the Dope! Not starting a rumor just hoping for a miracle.