Chorus/Vibrato

[Doberfort]

Talking about short favorite organ solos, I think the one I like most is this one from Kansas 3.00 minutes into the song Incomudro. I cant make up my mind if this has CV and if so if it is C1, C2 or C3, but it sure is nice.

 

[video:youtube]

[Paul Harrison]

Yes, that's C/V ... the depths of C1, C2, and C3 vary a bit between instruments depending on their year and condition, but I'd guess this one is C1.

[iluvchiclets]

Strangely enough, I rarely (if ever) play Hammond without C/V! It sounds so dry and un-soulful without a little warble added.

 

Now that the modern emulations do it so well I will usually keep it on C3. (C1 when I want it a little somber sounding. ...)

[HammondDave]

Strangely enough, I rarely (if ever) play Hammond without C/V! It sounds so dry and un-soulful without a little warble added.

 

Now that the modern emulations do it so well I will usually keep it on C3. (C1 when I want it a little somber sounding. ...)

 

Same here. Love that shimmer. I usually use C2 (on my Hammonds and my clone).

[Reverend Rhythm]

Love the thread!

 

I'm always nervous about commenting on Organ threads. You guys so much more, and I am always trying to learn more about the instrument. But I'm going to be brave and stick my neck out...

 

I think Green Onions is interesting in this discussion, because he doesn't use C/V (I think). It makes it sound stark to me, but I like it for Green Onions. C1 is usually my favorite. It shimmers and gives the sound depth without being too obvious.

 

I think Gregg Allman favors C2 or C3 - a deeper chorus.

[Steve Nathan]

As many of you know, I'm always b*tchin at folks who seem to think all B3s and clones sound alike so why not Google the drawbar setting for a song and then you "good to go"

 

You would think that C/V would actually be closer from organ to organ since it's primarily the scanner responsible, but I'm frequently surprised (when forced to play a "house" B3), how different C1,C2,C3 and V1,V2,V3 sound on other organs. There's one for example at Quad studios here that I just can't use any C/V because it's so exaggerated. The tech there is good, and should be able to dial it back, but perhaps they prefer it that way.

[Pa Gherkin]

Another guy who makes very good use of C/V is Seth Justman of the J. Geils Band,particularly on the first three studio albums and the live album Full House. Sometimes he would hold a note or interval with no C/V and the Leslie at a dead stop and then kick in the C/V and a second or two later flip the Leslie to fast for an orgasmic buildup of swirl. I'm a big fan of his work.

[B3Nut]

The scanner is but one element, and really has little effect on the character of the vibrato unless one or more stator plates is shorting through oil-soaked insulator bushings/tin whiskers/etc. at which point a scanner rebuild is called for. The caps in the wax-capped vibrato lines often wary wildly, and even in redcap organs the carbon-comp resistors in certain places in the circuit drift over time. The vibrato systems from console to console vary as much as the condition of the TG caps and calibration from unit to unit, and is part of the unique character each individual Hammond console possesses.

 

Excessively exaggerated C/V is often a symptom of a scanner beginning to short, before it starts full-on motorboating...methinks they need to summon a Murph.

 

TP

[Tom Williams]

So, does anyone ever, ever, ever use the Hammond vibrato?

[Polkahero]

So, does anyone ever, ever, ever use the Hammond vibrato?

 

I sometimes use it on an upper manual solo voice when practicing classical organ literature. Gives the solo voice more color and contrast to the lower manual accompaniment. I usually never go beyond V1 though!

[Ross Ward]

...methinks they need to summon a Murph.

 

This literally made me laugh out loud.

[mate stubb]

So, does anyone ever, ever, ever use the Hammond vibrato?

 

Sure. It's just the thing when you need to emulate a combo organ.

[John Tweed]

Brian Auger. Without a Leslie he makes great use of the contrast between the straight sound and C3.

 

 

[Josh Paxton]

A year or so ago I saw a video clip of Booker T playing solo organ (for NPR, maybe?), and one of the things that struck me was how he turned the C/V on and off throughout the course of the song, using it to manipulate the sound like you would with the drawbars. Not just for different sections of the tune, but even for individual phrases within a solo. That was a cool lesson.

[borntohang]

A year or so ago I saw a video clip of Booker T playing solo organ (for NPR, maybe?), and one of the things that struck me was how he turned the C/V on and off throughout the course of the song, using it to manipulate the sound like you would with the drawbars. Not just for different sections of the tune, but even for individual phrases within a solo. That was a cool lesson.

 

[video:youtube]

[Legatoboy]

Sometimes dependent on the tune I use none and just let the Leslie do the work slow or fast..it's a slightly different sound, flatter. Makes the organ sit more appropriately in the mix with the guitars and R. section but the tune vib determines this for me. A Slow blues many times calls for it but chorus/verse also in standard tunes. I think as Booker T. states you will find many players do this, it's subtle but does effect the vib/feel of the tune at that point.

 

Benmont Tench is a great example. Right! Different sections of the tune, exactly.

 

My stock setting on most of my patches is C1 though.. I will move to c2/c3 or off a few times in the course of the night.

 

I believe C2 is Greg Allmans stock setting but I think you will find at times he runs 'off' also!

[WesG]

Surprised Todd forgot to mention that the value of the C/V mix resistor changed in 1957, when the linebox changed from wood to metal, from 22k to 12k. I would expect this to make the chorus much less pronounced on the older organs for equal knob settings.

[HammondDave]

Surprised Todd forgot to mention that the value of the C/V mix resistor changed in 1957, when the linebox changed from wood to metal, from 22k to 12k. I would expect this to make the chorus much less pronounced on the older organs for equal knob settings.

 

This was true with my 55 B3. I had my tech Bill Axman change out the resister to the 12k. Now I use C2 on that organ. Nice and fat!

[Threadslayer]

the magic combination of C/V shimmer, overdrive growl, and Leslie swirl.

Wow. That is a very colorful description of the sound. I can actually hear it in my head. Well put.

[Ross Ward]

Surprised Todd forgot to mention that the value of the C/V mix resistor changed in 1957, when the linebox changed from wood to metal, from 22k to 12k. I would expect this to make the chorus much less pronounced on the older organs for equal knob settings.

 

The mix resistor was changed from 22K to 12K in the new system. 1958 and later -3 consoles (and the M-3 spinet) have the metal linebox and 12K mix resistor.

 

He did.

[Skinny]

If you want a REALLY heavy C/V, use a Hammond with a bad scanner. Motorboating, baby!

[WesG]

He did.

 

Geez. Looks like I need to trust my opinion of Todd more than my own ability to read!!!

[LX88]

C-3 CV is my go to sound on my Hammond at home ( 1962 B-3 plus 1965 Leslie 122).

 

When I was at NAMM I did not hear ONE person turn the leslie sim OFF on the Crumar Mojo. Goes to show that different people want different things.

 

CV is also my go to sound most of the time I play a clone. Most of the time there is not enough room to run stereo and no, I do not care for the sound of a stereo sim coming from basically one source. So most " stereo" amps in one box don't really cut it for me.

 

 

 

 

[B3Nut]

Surprised Todd forgot to mention that the value of the C/V mix resistor changed in 1957, when the linebox changed from wood to metal, from 22k to 12k. I would expect this to make the chorus much less pronounced on the older organs for equal knob settings.

 

I didn't forget.

 

The A-100 C/V was inherited from Alan Young's late 1957 redesign of the Hammond vibrato system, when the small metal open-frame linebox replaced the earlier wooden one. The mix resistor was changed from 22K to 12K in the new system. 1958 and later -3 consoles (and the M-3 spinet) have the metal linebox and 12K mix resistor.

 

Oddly enough, in both cases the intent on paper was to provide a 50/50 mix of vibrato and straight signal when chorus is selected. In practice, however, it doesn't work out that way and the metal linebox system seems to come closer to the ideal. But no actual change in sound was intended from the redesign according to the late Mike Fulk who knew Alan Young well, I would have to guess it was a space and cost-saving move as Alan was working on the A-100 prototype around that same time. The wood linebox is a bit large to shove into the reduced-depth A-100 box (it may fit but it would be tight...I've never tried it.) Hammond was always looking for ways to reduce manufacturing cost, just like any business.

 

TP

[mak1457]

The XK-1c's C/V mix makes for some interesting variations.

[hurricane hugo]

Hey Dr88s, here's a song where it's used lots in a comping role:

 

[video:youtube]

 

lots of variety of settings, too.

 

[Paul Harrison]

Great track! It's sometimes hard to distinguish between C/V and fast Leslie, especially when the Hammond is a bit back in the mix, but I can't hear any C/V here, just Leslie, which does sound a bit like C/V when he switches it to fast; e.g., 1:15-22, 1:48-55, 2:58-3:09, 4:03-4:12, 4:30-end.

[Steve Nathan]

Thought it worth reporting that I just finished a track with V3 all over the verses.

[mate stubb]

Thought it worth reporting that I just finished a track with V3 all over the verses.