Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[Jazzmammal]

As one who recently switched from guitar to keyboards,...

 

Running thru the Yamaha MG60X mixer that someone else here used, I immediately found that the lefthand side of my Korg CX-3 alarmingly blatted out the SS's woofer at anything over a small volume. *Loud* was out of the question

 

Tough to nail this down without being there but a couple of things come to mind. First since you're new to keyboards maybe you're simplying playing wrong by using too much left hand in a band situation. That can muddy up the whole band sound and piss off the bass player. Try playing with all EQ flat and watch the lower octaves. My SK1 has a pedal bass button and if I press it that adds a low pedal bass to the left hand and yes in that case I can overdrive the woofer in the SS at low volume but I would never use that unless I was playing LH bass and in that case I would need a sub. Second, since you're using a mixer your output gain going to the SS could be too hot so you're overdriving the input. Try turning down the mixer a bit and upping the power in the SS.

 

Bob

[Polkahero]

AP on the CP4 is SOOO much better on the SS v3 than on two DXRs. Sound is warmer, woodier, and far more even, balanced response from tip to tail. Really a joy to play piano sounds now. It also helps a lot (in my living room) to place the side speaker firing close proximity to a wall or closet door. Also, dial up a Rhodes tremolo patch (stereo panning) and it's a revelation. Balanced, loads of depth, yet you can still play single line solos and the line remains intelligible and musical (rather than just a useless panned effect).

...

 

Also, I never felt the need (in this context) for a bass amp or subwoofer. While I may feel differently in another context, right now I doubt it. But that's just me. Because of my dread about schlep factor, if I have to add something for more LF support, it will probably be a GK MB 110 combo bass amp. Check the specs, you'll see why - 100W into a 10" speaker, only 20lbs. I don't think for my use I'd every need anything more.

 

Ahhh -- this is exactly the kind of first-hand impression I was looking for. Two questions regarding your CP4's AP -- did you use stereo or mono piano programs? And, you noted that the sound is 'warmer and woodier -- but does the brightness of the CFX manage to sparkle through? That's my biggest complaint using the ZLX -- no brightness at all, just dull notes, and trying to EQ it in makes it sound even more artificial. I've noted in another thread that I'm having much better luck with that through the pair of B210D's, but of course good enough is never good enough.

 

I'm getting this "blanket over the speakers" problem right now also playing the CP4 (and my new Kawai MP7) through my Yamaha Stagepas speakers. I was thinking maybe I blew the horns at some point but the AP in my Hammond SK1 sounds plenty bright through these speakers. Both of these boards sounds so good through headphones it's frustrating to hear them sound so muffled through PA speakers.

[Danny Linguini]

I'm getting this "blanket over the speakers" problem right now also playing the CP4 (and my new Kawai MP7) through my Yamaha Stagepas speakers. I was thinking maybe I blew the horns at some point but the AP in my Hammond SK1 sounds plenty bright through these speakers. Both of these boards sounds so good through headphones it's frustrating to hear them sound so muffled through PA speakers.

I've got a whole thread going here here on this very subject. Lots of good ideas on how to improve the situation, not the least of which, of course, being a switch to the SS.

 

I actually have that same frustration as you, and had the same concern about my ZLX (that I maybe had blown the tweeter), coincidentally with the new CP4 and older MP6. But acoustic guitar still sounds crisp and clean through it, so I know the drivers are still intact and the problem is some other combination of circumstances. Some cabs just seem to have an issue with AP's that no amount of EQ can sufficiently resolve. I have another older Peavey keyboard amp that was the main sound source for my music room (no handles or outer protection, just black painted wood finish, so I think it was intended for studio use) which I thought sounded good when I first got it for general keys, but the first good stage piano I fed into it sounded like crap. That's what prompted the earlier and very fruitful search for decent studio monitors. It's obviously not a unique problem, and I'm frankly kind of surprised about that. It's looking more and more like I'm going to have to plunk down for a SS. (Yes, dear, I have to.)

[TomKittel]

 

 

Running thru the Yamaha MG60X mixer that someone else here used, I immediately found that the lefthand side of my Korg CX-3 alarmingly blatted out the SS's woofer at anything over a small volume. *Loud* was out of the question -- and I don't mean garage-band-loud; I mean above conversation level. This was partly because I was applying about +5db +to the low EQ on the mixer, to reproduce the fullness of the KC60s I used previously. Flatting out the mixer EQ gave me more room, but still not as loud as the KC60s on half-volume.

 

 

Not sure what you are doing wrong....but you must be doing something completely wrong with your setup. A crap Roland KC60 louder than the Spacestation?? You must be kidding!

[AWkeys]

Played my second gig with the SSv3 last night. LOUD band, 2 guitars. Stereo TR outs of the Yamaha MG06X to the SS, right XLR out to FOH. Played in a medium sized, round room with lots of windows. It's fairly dampened by the booths along the windows, so it's a live but not super-reverberant room.

 

The piano peaked through the mix with ease. However, the organ (Nord Stage 2 output 3 into Ventilator into mic channels 1 and 2 on mixer - padded and the HPF enabled - so that I can use the stereo reverb) would distort even when I dialed back on the Ventilator. The overload light on the mixer channels did not go off, and the main meter was well below the red.

 

Next issue: Wurlitzer distorted as well. NS 2 outputs 1 and 2 into mixer line-in channels 3 and 4. Again, the meter was well below red.

 

The SSv3 volume was around 1-2 o'clock, width around 1-2, mids dialed back to 10-11 o'clock, tweeter boosted to 1 o'clock.

 

My guess is that this little amp can't keep up with such loud bands on its own. Maybe if I get a subwoofer, this won't be a problem. Wurlis and Hammond tend to have much beefier mid-range than piano sounds, so I'm hoping to get more clarity with the sub. Any suggestions?

[Polkahero]

I'm getting this "blanket over the speakers" problem right now also playing the CP4 (and my new Kawai MP7) through my Yamaha Stagepas speakers. I was thinking maybe I blew the horns at some point but the AP in my Hammond SK1 sounds plenty bright through these speakers. Both of these boards sounds so good through headphones it's frustrating to hear them sound so muffled through PA speakers.

 

 

I've got a whole thread going here here on this very subject. Lots of good ideas on how to improve the situation, not the least of which, of course, being a switch to the SS.

 

I actually have that same frustration as you, and had the same concern about my ZLX (that I maybe had blown the tweeter), coincidentally with the new CP4 and older MP6. But acoustic guitar still sounds crisp and clean through it, so I know the drivers are still intact and the problem is some other combination of circumstances. Some cabs just seem to have an issue with AP's that no amount of EQ can sufficiently resolve. I have another older Peavey keyboard amp that was the main sound source for my music room (no handles or outer protection, just black painted wood finish, so I think it was intended for studio use) which I thought sounded good when I first got it for general keys, but the first good stage piano I fed into it sounded like crap. That's what prompted the earlier and very fruitful search for decent studio monitors. It's obviously not a unique problem, and I'm frankly kind of surprised about that. It's looking more and more like I'm going to have to plunk down for a SS. (Yes, dear, I have to.)

 

Yep, I've been following your thread. Sounds like we're in a similar boat (except you're using these for your whole PA system and covering bass). I'm still on the fence on the SpaceStation. . .thinking of going with a pair of EV ZXA1-90's as they tend to get favorable reviews for AP sounds. I don't need a ton of bottom end as I'm always playing with a bassist and have FOH support. Just need to find something with a flatter response.

[Al Coda]

... The overload light on the mixer channels did not go off, and the main meter was well below the red.

 

...

 

Next issue: Wurlitzer distorted as well. NS 2 outputs 1 and 2 into mixer line-in channels 3 and 4. Again, the meter was well below red.

 

 

Seems you created a gain staging issue in the mixer already,- isn´t it ?

(overload LEDs don´t go OFF even meter levels are below "red")

 

Maybe you use the wrong mixer ???

 

The SSv3 volume was around 1-2 o'clock, width around 1-2, mids dialed back to 10-11 o'clock, tweeter boosted to 1 o'clock.

 

My guess is that this little amp can't keep up with such loud bands on its own.

 

I wonder why you think that way when your observations above indicates you already had a overload problem in your mixer channels.

What the meters tell is 2nd row, especially when overload LEDs light up,- better use your ears.

Do we watch or do we hear music ?

What quality are meters ?

Are these propperly calibrated ?

 

I don´t say SSv3 will "keep up w/ such loud bands" (whatever that means) ...

For sure, there are the limits of physics.

 

Maybe if I get a subwoofer, this won't be a problem. Wurlis and Hammond tend to have much beefier mid-range than piano sounds, so I'm hoping to get more clarity with the sub. Any suggestions?

 

Yes, you will get more clarity w/ a sub because it takes load from the (small) woofers of the SSv3,- but it won´t solve your gain structure issue in the mixer.

 

A.C.

[spazzkey]

alright - took some more time to mess around in my garage - put the SS right behind me on the ground, pretty much up against shelving filled with boxes, parts etc - borrowed a yamaha mg102 mixer from a friend and ran the sk1 through the vent and the stage2 direct -

 

I wrote previously that I was not being blown away at home and in comparison to my AI ten2 and a current bose L1 double bass... with the SS facing me and in the middle of the garage...

 

...that changed last night when I started playing the nord pianos - historically I've tended towards the petrov upright pushing the highs and lows through the onboard eq, which cut through in a band setting -and I've always been Mr. Mono...

 

now the petrov sounds good, well, like an upright through the SS... I also have the fazioli XL and the steinway grand lady L loaded - so I switched to those, which I never really could get to sound right running mono...

 

WOW - the closest thing to sitting at my steinway I have ever come across in a DP - of course it is not the same - but the non directionality and spaciousness gave me the sense of sitting at a real piano - I can totally relate to timwats comments about warmth and woodiness - the timbre is so real - and even though these samples are a few years old now, the SS makes apparent how good a job Nord did with them - tremendously inspiring from a playing perspective...

 

so I was inspired to go through a bunch of the patches on my nord that I hadn't seen or heard since I was exploring it a few years ago being mainly focused on B3, AP and EP- wow again - patches with layers of piano and synth, mellotron samples, effects etc... came alive like I've never heard them before - Aspen is not kidding when he talks about how effects come alive...

 

looks like I've got a bunch of work ahead of me re-fine tuning and relocating patches for quicker access...and maybe I'll even start playing some of them out...

 

the best part (apart from sounding so good and getting all excited about sounding so good) is that I am loving getting back into the stage2 at a whole new level after focusing on the sk1 over the past year or so, and admittedly feeling like the stage2 was getting long in the tooth...

 

thanks to all of you early (earliest) adopters for sharing your experiences - I have to laugh, I basically pulled the trigger on a whim when the sweet water rep I bought an FC7 pedal from a year ago, (when he was brand new and SW had the best price), called me out of the blue with one of those sales calls I hate and usually never pick up..., of course even now after a year on the job he knew nothing about the SS when asked about it - so I laughed and told him it was his lucky day...

 

the other thing that surprises me is that for my purposes at least, and while the AI ten2 has been awesome and the best compact amp I could find - the SS takes it to a whole new level at half the price...

 

I have yet to run multiple players through it, but if it performs anywhere near what Aspen is saying, it could also replace the bose pole at 1/4 to 1/3 of the price....

 

Bravo Aspen...

[spazzkey]

Played my second gig with the SSv3 last night. LOUD band, 2 guitars. Stereo TR outs of the Yamaha MG06X to the SS, right XLR out to FOH. Played in a medium sized, round room with lots of windows. It's fairly dampened by the booths along the windows, so it's a live but not super-reverberant room.

 

The piano peaked through the mix with ease. However, the organ (Nord Stage 2 output 3 into Ventilator into mic channels 1 and 2 on mixer - padded and the HPF enabled - so that I can use the stereo reverb) would distort even when I dialed back on the Ventilator. The overload light on the mixer channels did not go off, and the main meter was well below the red.

 

Next issue: Wurlitzer distorted as well. NS 2 outputs 1 and 2 into mixer line-in channels 3 and 4. Again, the meter was well below red.

 

The SSv3 volume was around 1-2 o'clock, width around 1-2, mids dialed back to 10-11 o'clock, tweeter boosted to 1 o'clock.

 

My guess is that this little amp can't keep up with such loud bands on its own. Maybe if I get a subwoofer, this won't be a problem. Wurlis and Hammond tend to have much beefier mid-range than piano sounds, so I'm hoping to get more clarity with the sub. Any suggestions?

 

I would have to concur with Al Coda - you may have a mixer/gain level issue..

 

have not yet run into any distortion issues with my stage2 - but loud enough with my sk1 not using a sub woofer to keep up with a very loud band, to the point of being painfully loud... completely clean and without distortion (I actually do like loud, even very loud for driving rock jam music...) to lead me to believe this thing can be as loud as I'd ever want...

 

[cphollis]

AWkeys, have to agree with the other guys -- you've likely got something funky in your signal chain: gain structure, bad cable, etc. Don't know, but it ain't the amp.

 

Using a similar set up to yours (Nord Stage 2 running organs and EPs to an SSv3) I can take people's heads off at full blast -- and do so cleanly.

[AWkeys]

Hey guys,

 

Just to clarify, what I meant about the overload light not going off was that it didn't light up - I realize now that my word usage might have been confusing, sorry!

 

I was pretty careful dialing in the gain stages upon set up, and it sounded pretty great, but there were a few gremlins on stage before the first set - my lower keyboard (a Casio PX-5S) which was fine at soundcheck, would not fully load afterwards - I have to reload the ROM, apparently - and on of the guitarists' amps wouldn't fire. Strange evening.

 

But I still concur that piano sounds clear as a bell through the SSv3. Got some more fiddling to do with my gear.

[TomKittel]

have not yet run into any distortion issues with my stage2 - but loud enough with my sk1 not using a sub woofer to keep up with a very loud band, to the point of being painfully loud... completely clean and without distortion (I actually do like loud, even very loud for driving rock jam music...) to lead me to believe this thing can be as loud as I'd ever want...

 

I second this. The SSV3 can get as loud as you want it to be. It's somewhat tiring to read time and again that the SSV3 might not be loud enough for this and that. C'mon folks! Get a grip on the gain structures of your instruments and mixers and don't blame the Spacestation if you don't know how to do that. Just pay attention to some basic rules which Aspen has explained repeatedly with abundance of patience in the past 58 pages and the SSV3 will deliver more volume than you can bear, really. These "not loud enough" postings should not be be misleading for all those interested in the Spacestation. It's more than loud enough if used properly.

[ADino]

Can I ask, Im going to pikup new 1/4 cables b4 my V comes this week..If I run direct from source to inputs on the V, should I get stereo cables or regular?

Same question if Im going thru a mixer?

Suggestions on good brand cables?

Hate to sound numb, but Ive never run stereo.

Im looking forward to this.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

[hardware]

Well mine arrived last week and sounds great, I would love to hear what the optimal cable style is, TS or TRS, lengths, etc.

 

I am running a Solaris hardware synth, Rack Mounted Analog Mono synths SE-1/SE-1X, Kontakt, PianoTeq, VB3, u-He and all gets mixed in the Scope DSP XITE-1 rack, where TC ELectronics Fireworx and DSP FX treat things.

 

ALso the Physis K4 is incredible, I can do whatever my brain is capable of doing, launching clips, old Zawinul style dual PBend riffs.

 

PianoTeq Pro 5 Upright, Rhodes and 200A sound so much better than Scarbe and Neo SOul, I wrote them off and made room for Hollywood Strings and LASS.

 

All I am waiting for is the Sub, didn't really need it but after hearing my KLA and KW 153's without the Sub knew it was a crucial piece of kit.

 

First impressions were awesome though as I recently had to do Baba O'Riley using Piano Octaves as the right hand triggers and plays arpeggios.

 

After the initial "wow" factor set in I ran the SE-1X and Zebra together for a dual mono bass/lead split, then added Solaris.

Played for hours with no interuptions..........Sweetness indeed.

 

http://s3.postimg.org/gppgv92er/IMG_0556.jpg

gifs upload

 

 

[Daddyg3042]

FWIW...I just received my Tuki cover for the SSV3. There was a little bit of a mix up initially, where they sent me a vinyl cover vs. the padded Tuki. We got it sorted out. They now have "Center Point Stereo Spacestation V3" in their templates. It fits well, price is reasonable, and Tuki makes a great cover.

 

 

[cphollis]

Got my BD1200D yesterday, plugged in with my SSv3, here are my initial impressions.

 

First, physical packaging

http://chucksblog.emc.com/content/IMG_0515.JPG

http://chucksblog.emc.com/content/IMG_0517.JPG

http://chucksblog.emc.com/content/IMG_0518.JPG

 

First, as you can see, one stacks very solidly on top of another -- no wiggle, no vibration. As a bonus, one of my mixers now nicely rides on top of the SSv3, which I couldn't easily do when the SSv3 was tilted back on a stand.

 

I went with longer XLRs than needed from the mixer to the BD1200D, as sometimes I have to plant my amp farther away from where I'm playing, and I want the mixer close to me.

 

Stage footprint is still minimal (basically 12"x12"), so this will be find for all those cramped stages I'm playing these days. Also very resistant to be knocked over inadvertently. Not that I've ever had a drunk patron crash into the keys or anything.

 

Both pieces (the SSv3 and the BD1200D) are what I would classify as "luggable" -- I could carry them short distances individually, but will probably end up stacking them on a small handcart or similar. The BD1200D has handles on each side (vs the top where there is a pole socket) so it's a bit awkward to carry.

 

The BD1200D seems sturdy enough. Not built like a tank, but not cheapo either.

 

Cabling:

 

Cabling is a pair of XLR outs from the mixer to a pair of XLR ins on the B1200D. The B1200D has two pair of XLR outs: one pair straight through, another pair high-pass at >100 Hz. I needed to special order a pair of female XLR to TRS 1/4" short cables to get to the SSv3. I ordered these from Sweetwater at the same time I ordered my sub. Plan ahead.

 

Set up, sound:

 

I set the sub for volume at 2 o'clock, and the hipass filter to 100Hz. There is also a selectable emphasis frequency which I turned off. There is also a polarity switch for inverting the phase, which I didn't need.

 

The SSv3 was basically neutral: width at 12 o'clock, mid/hi straight up, and the volume at 3 o'clock.

 

After going back and forth, I turned the sub down a notch, as I felt it was making proportionally too much bass as compared to SSv3. 12 o'clock was OK for the room I was in (a large garage, acoustically reflective).

 

As I'm now starting to play with a soul/funk band, I started with a few synth bass parts (e.g. intro to Mercy). Plenty of bass, but not enough to move serious air. Much better than I got than the SSv3 alone. Anything better would probably require a FOH system, as I'm not gonna be hauling around 15 and 18 inch subs for a small stage gig.

 

The low end of the organs were now much more interesting. I don't usually play organ bass lines, but -- well -- now I could.

 

The EPs were fine. The APs, as usual, took some fiddling to get right. I had to dial back the sub's hi-pass filter to around 80 Hz, as I was getting overlap where both the SSv3 and the BD1200 were responding to the same frequencies, creating an audible level spike when I played those notes. With about 60 seconds of adjusting, it was good enough for a gig. The resulting piano sounds now had a very pronounced bass component vs. fading back a bit as previously.

 

The BD1200D itself creates a firm, solid sound that fills in nicely, but doesn't overpower, color or vibrate. Then again, I wasn't pushing it to its limits.

 

Conclusions:

 

Keep in mind, I was more than happy with my SSv3, until I started playing music that demanded some bass punch, e.g. synth bass lines. The BD1200D fills that gap nicely, and for not much $$$.

 

I can't prove it, but it seems that the SSv3 runs a bit louder and cleaner as a result, as I would expect. Not that I ever had headroom problems before, but -- well -- now there's even more headroom.

 

Coming back to the pair of through XLR connectors on the BD1200D, I also have the potential of daisy-chaining all sorts of external self-powered PA units should the need arise. But I can't see that happening often.

 

I do think I'll need to back off on my usual lazy left-hand comping when playing APs and EPs -- the bass is now pronounced enough to seriously step on what the bass player is doing.

 

I still use my QSC K8s on poles from time to time (but not as much now that I have the SSv3), and I can see using the BD1200D with them as well -- same general setup.

 

Bottom line: if you're looking for more bass presence, this is a logical choice: sound, cabling, packaging and price.

 

The more interesting question: given the current $749 price for the SSv3, and $299 for the BD1200D, are you getting your money's worth as far as a killer keyboard stage amp?

 

I say yes.

 

 

[Daddyg3042]

I second this. The SSV3 can get as loud as you want it to be. It's somewhat tiring to read time and again that the SSV3 might not be loud enough for this and that. C'mon folks! Get a grip on the gain structures of your instruments and mixers and don't blame the Spacestation if you don't know how to do that. Just pay attention to some basic rules which Aspen has explained repeatedly with abundance of patience in the past 58 pages and the SSV3 will deliver more volume than you can bear, really. These "not loud enough" postings should not be be misleading for all those interested in the Spacestation. It's more than loud enough if used properly.

 

While you may find it "tiring to read", realize that some of us have not had a stellar experience when playing in loud situations, even after setting gain structure correctly. SS doesn't go "as loud as you want"; Aspen himself gave max volume info here, and when you exceed that...it distorts. When you're in a situation where the SS's volume doesn't keep up, it just isn't loud enough, period. Doesn't mean it's a bad amp, just that it has its limitations. Knowing that before you buy is better then knowing it afterwards.

 

I thought this forum was a place to get as much info as possible on potential gear, so one could make an informed decision. Is this now a fan boy only thread?

[cphollis]

I second this. The SSV3 can get as loud as you want it to be. It's somewhat tiring to read time and again that the SSV3 might not be loud enough for this and that. C'mon folks! Get a grip on the gain structures of your instruments and mixers and don't blame the Spacestation if you don't know how to do that. Just pay attention to some basic rules which Aspen has explained repeatedly with abundance of patience in the past 58 pages and the SSV3 will deliver more volume than you can bear, really. These "not loud enough" postings should not be be misleading for all those interested in the Spacestation. It's more than loud enough if used properly.

 

While you may find it "tiring to read", realize that some of us have not had a stellar experience when playing in loud situations, even after setting gain structure correctly. SS doesn't go "as loud as you want"; Aspen himself gave max volume info here, and when you exceed that...it distorts. When you're in a situation where the SS's volume doesn't keep up, it just isn't loud enough, period. Doesn't mean it's a bad amp, just that it has its limitations. Knowing that before you buy is better then knowing it afterwards.

 

I thought this forum was a place to get as much info as possible on potential gear, so one could make an informed decision. Is this now a fan boy only thread?

 

No fan boy here. If you hit the true limits of the SSv3 (especially using a sub), you are playing very loud indeed. I have found that every spec that Aspen has shared has held up in the real world, save one: the uncanny effect of projecting volume louder at a distance than with other amplification systems I've used.

 

As a result, I've learned not to turn up as much with the SSv3 as I would with a traditional keyboard amp or self-powered PA rig.

 

Several years ago, I played with an electric band where it seemed that louder was better. And we got gawd awful loud -- the drums couldn't keep up without amplification sometimes.

 

I don't play with them anymore (thankfully), but that's where I learned the value of 2000w+ of stage amplification. And, no, the SSv3 would be the wrong toy to bring to that party.

 

Your mileage may vary.

[Ledbetter]

After receiving and putting the amp through a try out, I think Daddyg3042 makes an excellent point. Did someone actually advise a user to change their left hand playing to accommodate the amp?

[TomKittel]

While you may find it "tiring to read", realize that some of us have not had a stellar experience when playing in loud situations, even after setting gain structure correctly. SS doesn't go "as loud as you want"; Aspen himself gave max volume info here, and when you exceed that...it distorts. When you're in a situation where the SS's volume doesn't keep up, it just isn't loud enough, period.

 

@Daddyg3042: What made you change your mind? Remember your posting from Feb 4? I may quote you: "but if you need loud...that's altogether possible. I'm a pretty happy camper. I can't wait to pair these up when the band gets together again. Volume...you want more volume!! I'll show you!"

 

 

[TomKittel]

Several years ago, I played with an electric band where it seemed that louder was better. And we got gawd awful loud -- the drums couldn't keep up without amplification sometimes.

 

I don't play with them anymore (thankfully), but that's where I learned the value of 2000w+ of stage amplification.

 

Hope you used some ear protection plugs back then! ;-)

[rickp]

The overload light on the mixer channels did not go off, and the main meter was well below the red.

 

Next issue: Wurlitzer distorted as well. NS 2 outputs 1 and 2 into mixer line-in channels 3 and 4. Again, the meter was well below red.

 

The SSv3 volume was around 1-2 o'clock, width around 1-2, mids dialed back to 10-11 o'clock, tweeter boosted to 1 o'clock.

Just thinking of things to try (the SS3 will get very loud cleanly), if you've already checked all the cables involved:

 

1) You mention that the mixer channel indicators were well below red; you may want to try to saturate the mixer channels more with your keyboard output controls - seemingly small gains there make a big difference;

 

2) With your mixer channels fully saturated but not clipping, try running into the SS3 with its volume at mid-point - I've had many, many amps through the years and it has been my sense with keyboards (and guitars can be vastly different in this regard) that all of them, even the higher-end tube amps, have diminishing returns and/or nothing good happening much past mid-point (some Fenders even at the 3 1/2 or 4 mark), and the way pots are structured, there definitely isn't a smooth linear curve all the way through the range of the pot of volume selected vs. volume achieved;

 

. . . but there were a few gremlins on stage before the first set - my lower keyboard (a Casio PX-5S) which was fine at soundcheck, would not fully load afterwards - I have to reload the ROM, apparently - and on of the guitarists' amps wouldn't fire. Strange evening.

3) Are you using a power conditioner or filter? Some components are really sensitive to power anomalies, and it only takes one thing acting up to power supply with so many things connected together with TS cables to produce some really puzzling problems;

 

4) You mentioned running to FOH as well; since the main thing is how it sounds out front (and "the main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"), you may have places that you simply have to let the FOH pick up your levels . . . my own FOH strategy is usually to have stereo FOH carrying the bulk of the load and anything I have on stage set just loud enough to provide decent self-monitoring (if not using IEMs), to provide some sound position-anchoring, and to fill the front-center that may be somewhat skimmed by the mains (particularly when they are very high or very wide). Plus, FOH guys also are always appreciative of players managing stage volumes, and they seem to work harder when they aren't nullified by stage levels.

 

Sorry if none of this is particularly helpful or applicable, hope you get it worked out.

 

 

[cphollis]

Hmmm, reading all of this, it's perhaps worthwhile to share my own experience regarding volume perception with the SSv3.

 

Prior to using one, I had become accustomed to judging volume in terms of directional projection. You get in front of a normal self-powered PA or keyboard amp, turn it up, and try to figure out how loud it might sound elsewhere.

 

I had gotten accustomed to a 90x60 degree cone of sound being directionally projected. I also had an implied understanding of how the sound would fall off at a distance, so that would affect how much volume I thought I would need. All of this had to be re-evaluated when using the SSv3.

 

When I first was trying out the SSv3, my initial reaction was "hey, it's not so loud". That's because I had gotten used to a focused sound beam. The SSv3 does a good job of distributing its sound 300 degrees around it. No focused sound beam. The fall-off rate as distance increases is more like a line array than a traditional point source.

 

It's a different volume model, and it took me some time to adjust my perceptions and expectations. It took a while.

 

I took it to a rehearsal. I could hear myself, and all the band members could also hear me -- without me being in their face. Took it to a small-ish gig, same deal, but got feedback from friends in the audience they could hear me just fine. OK, time to adjust my perceptions around amp volume, which I did.

 

I now prefer the surround sound (and convenience) of the SSv3 for most of my gigs vs. self-powered PAs and poles.

 

That being said, I still love that sound of my Fulcrum 12acs. Top shelf, baby. I just don't haul them around as much anymore.

[esfusion]

Hi Aspen, if I have a mono source and apply a bit of reverb via the mixer, don't I still wind up with a mono source? Can you explain why the SS would recognize this as stereo and spread the output among the two drivers? Thanks much.

[cphollis]

Several years ago, I played with an electric band where it seemed that louder was better. And we got gawd awful loud -- the drums couldn't keep up without amplification sometimes.

 

I don't play with them anymore (thankfully), but that's where I learned the value of 2000w+ of stage amplification.

 

Hope you used some ear protection plugs back then! ;-)

 

Yes, foam inserts were the norm. And -- to this day -- I still play volume-intensive gigs where the keyboard dude is expected to bring serious game.

 

No s@@t, I played a gig a few weeks ago where I brought 6000+ watts for keyboards alone. Why? It's complicated. Just to be clear, I'm not a fan of big volume, but -- heck -- if you're expected to bring game, better be prepared to bring game.

[Daddyg3042]

While you may find it "tiring to read", realize that some of us have not had a stellar experience when playing in loud situations, even after setting gain structure correctly. SS doesn't go "as loud as you want"; Aspen himself gave max volume info here, and when you exceed that...it distorts. When you're in a situation where the SS's volume doesn't keep up, it just isn't loud enough, period.

 

 

 

@Daddyg3042: What made you change your mind? Remember your posting from Feb 4? I may quote you: "but if you need loud...that's altogether possible. I'm a pretty happy camper. I can't wait to pair these up when the band gets together again. Volume...you want more volume!! I'll show you!"

 

 

Haven't changed my mind at all, just a matter of lugging one vs. two amps. When I need the big guns, I'm good with my two amps. When it's somewhere in the middle, that's where it gets tricky. I usually grab the SS & hope for the best. If it gets real loud...that's when I get distortion, and should have brought the 2nd amp.

 

So all I'm saying is, we shouldn't discourage people from discussing the issues they're having, with the SS or any other product for that matter, because not all have experienced that same problem. Most times in those discussions, problems are solved, and everyone goes out for a beer(right?)

 

 

[timwat]

If you're having any kinds of problems with your SSv3, you should read this:

 

I set up my Kronos / Wave rig up today to demo the SSv3 in my living room. Kronos outs into SS ins.

 

Problems!! Distortion at low volume levels, side speaker not working, the level control seems to cut the front speaker in and out. Width control reveals nothing but hum from the side speaker. Sound from front speaker is unnatural, low in level, distorted, and angry.

 

So I insert my trust Ashly 308 into the signal chain. Same problems.

 

So I A/B using my Yamaha DXR8. Signal is clean.

 

Time to ship the damn thing back to Sweetwater. It must be defective. I called Aspen to discuss, but caught him having a burger for lunch. Oh well. It's Saturday afternoon. Guy deserves a weekend off.

 

Aspen called me back after his lunch, and we talked for about 45 minutes.

 

Executive summary: My Space Station is fine, and Aspen's a really great, patient guy.

 

The real culprit: Questionable cabling. Which doesn't reveal itself with conventional PA speakers (like the DXR8). But because of the internal processing of the L&R channels in the SS, you end up with weird distorted problems like I was getting. Also, some keyboards have a hot enough output to mess with the gain staging. But it appears one intermittent cable issue had me pulling my hair out.

 

Moral of the story: Be aware that the SS is a different enough system that bad cabling causes unexpected results (at least, unexpected to me).

 

Also: Because of the SS processing, I'm having to revisit my Kronos programs and combis and adjust how I've used FX, EQ and the like.

 

Anyway, thought someone might benefit from my afternoon's adventures and solutions.

[cphollis]

If you're having any kinds of problems with your SSv3, you should read this:

 

I set up my Kronos / Wave rig up today to demo the SSv3 in my living room. Kronos outs into SS ins.

 

Problems!! Distortion at low volume levels, side speaker not working, the level control seems to cut the front speaker in and out. Width control reveals nothing but hum from the side speaker. Sound from front speaker is unnatural, low in level, distorted, and angry.

 

So I insert my trust Ashly 308 into the signal chain. Same problems.

 

So I A/B using my Yamaha DXR8. Signal is clean.

 

Time to ship the damn thing back to Sweetwater. It must be defective. I called Aspen to discuss, but caught him having a burger for lunch. Oh well. It's Saturday afternoon. Guy deserves a weekend off.

 

Aspen called me back after his lunch, and we talked for about 45 minutes.

 

Executive summary: My Space Station is fine, and Aspen's a really great, patient guy.

 

The real culprit: Questionable cabling. Which doesn't reveal itself with conventional PA speakers (like the DXR8). But because of the internal processing of the L&R channels in the SS, you end up with weird distorted problems like I was getting. Also, some keyboards have a hot enough output to mess with the gain staging. But it appears one intermittent cable issue had me pulling my hair out.

 

Moral of the story: Be aware that the SS is a different enough system that bad cabling causes unexpected results (at least, unexpected to me).

 

Also: Because of the SS processing, I'm having to revisit my Kronos programs and combis and adjust how I've used FX, EQ and the like.

 

Anyway, thought someone might benefit from my afternoon's adventures and solutions.

 

Your experience makes total sense to me. I had a dodgy cable, and it completely wrecked the SSv3 sound. Let's say that your 'L" channel is erratic. That "L" sound gets summed L+R, and then difference L-R. Net result: complete and utter havoc with your ears.

 

That doesn't happen with traditional amplification systems. Y'all have been warned.

 

Part two: I've had to go through all my Nord patches (roughly equivalent to Korg combis?) and readjust. I don't like doing that just for an amp, but -- in this case -- I think it's worth it.

[cphollis]

Hi Aspen, if I have a mono source and apply a bit of reverb via the mixer, don't I still wind up with a mono source? Can you explain why the SS would recognize this as stereo and spread the output among the two drivers? Thanks much.

 

The reverb would have to be a stereo effect.

[Theo Verelst]

I would have interest to know what a Lexicon effect would think of being in a decent loop with the SS!

 

T.