Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[rickp]

Had rehearsal this evening in a room about 50' x 50', SS3 on a GK MB210 as shown/described in earlier posts today (only this time with mixer and keyboards including SK1), some very seasoned musicians in attendance acting like children in disbelief of the sounds this thing produces - predominant agreement was feeling as though totally surrounded by the sound and unable to pinpoint the direction of the source but for visually seeing the amp.

 

Even after reading all the positive comments here, never would have believed pulling this amp out of the box yesterday that it could make such full, rich music.

 

 

[Aspen]

Looks like they were made for each other, right down to same knobs:

Is it possible they were made in the same factory? Does anyone have any idea if the G-K uses Eminence speakers as well?

I just checked GK's support sites, thought it might have Eminence but, nope... Same factory question - haven't found an answer - there certainly are many similarities

 

Chiming in; this grill design has been a cosmetic feature of every Spacestation from the first version, thru the later MK2, and now again for the v.3. That's been over 12 years now. While I am sure we were not the first to use it, but we did not copy GK (at least not knowingly, those guys are friends of mine).

Then also, all 3 versions of the SS have used a different vendor (factory), so in each case this was my consistent design.

 

All that said, the 3rd time has been a charm! Eminence is definately my best production partner yet, and Sweetwater as my exclusive dealer has made it all possible by backing my play on the v.3. (they were also one of my hottest MK2 dealers 8 years ago when I was producing the MK2, the 2nd version. (which closely resembled the v.3)

 

The funny thing about the cosmetics is I just got slammed as "ugly" over at the Fractal site...those guitar modeler guys are used to Tweed and wheat straw grill cloth...so they are not impressed with my cosmetics, I only hope they give it a listen, every guitarist with a Fractal AXE FX or a Kemper modeler who has tried a SS v.3 has been blown away with the sound and its unique stereo image!

[Josh Paxton]

As a general rule, if guitarists think your amp is ugly, you're probably doing something right.

[endlessummerkeys]

ug..... guitar players

[rickp]

I like the grill as-is - IMHO, GK cheapened the look of their amps switching to black fabric.

[Aspen]

I like the grill as-is - IMHO, GK cheapened the look of their amps switching to black fabric.

And may I just point out another helpful feature of our grill design; steel grate remains the best protection from thrown beer bottles! (ie: Road House)

[drawback]

I had an AER Domino that had both. Metal grate over the speaker, half inch black foam over the grate, IIRC. Maybe to soak up the beer?

[rickp]

I used to think the old Fender grill-cloth was designed to absorb cigarette smoke . . . taking the vinyl covers off the bandmaster and bassman cabs at home after having them in a two-night club gig (always loved those - no tear-down the first night, no setup the second) conjured the scents of two giant ashtrays. It was not much surprise, years later, to read about a "service" that would nicotine treat a new Fender grill to make it look vintage . . . the only surprise was that someone would actually pay for that service!

 

 

[timwat]

Hey, rickp -

 

Curious how you'd describe the difference between:

 

1) SSv3 alone, and

2) SSv3 running with the GK MB210

 

FedEx says mine is out on the truck for delivery today, planning to use it for a jazz gig on Friday but curious how it will fare in my 10-piece funk band.

 

Tim

[rickp]

Hey, rickp -

 

Curious how you'd describe the difference between:

 

1) SSv3 alone, and

2) SSv3 running with the GK MB210

 

FedEx says mine is out on the truck for delivery today, planning to use it for a jazz gig on Friday but curious how it will fare in my 10-piece funk band.

 

Tim

 

Hey Tim; to my ears, for full range stage AP if your left hand ventures below G2 often, it needs to have a supplemental unit - and that's not a knock whatsoever of the amp, love the thing - to me, it's just being realistic about what an 8" unported driver can do in a small cabinet. And I'm not saying it won't clearly produce notes at volume in low ranges; it indeed will; I'm referring to it more in terms of the AP tone and resonance you may be accustomed to hearing from an actual piano or even the CP4 with headphones or IEMs.

 

But, if your jazz work carries a fairly high left hand on AP or if you're doing mostly organ and/or EP, it may seem inconsistent to say, but I get the sense that a well-positioned SSv3 alone could nicely handle a small to mid size jazz venue (by "jazz venue," I'm inferring volume levels that allow patrons to reasonably converse without yelling). I'm not so sure at that sort of volume that larger room size would even be much of an issue - the SSv3, to me, does not seem to have the dB distance/volume drop curve that typical amps/speakers have - the way the phasing and aiming of its speakers shapes and produces sound seems to have much more synergy (and here, I'm thinking back to Aspen's video with the water ripple effect as being VERY apt to describing the real thing).

 

Now, I come at this with the bias of nearly always using IEMs (usually Shure SE315s) with all keys running stereo and from rehearsing in a setup that combines Yamaha ClubV 15's with QSC K8's, so I may have a bias toward big-speaker/high-headroom sound that underpins my thoughts/comments.

 

Sorry for the rambling and perhaps inartful answer; I'll be glad to take further stabs at it if you'd like any further info.

 

 

 

 

[timwat]

Thanks, this is really helpful.

 

My jazz gigs run the gamut from "patrons can comfortably converse" to larger concert settings in theaters. And they can run from duo/trio work to sextets and larger. So the AP tone and resonance comment (sort of that lower octave of support thing) really hits home for me. It's something that (at present) is a real difference between using one DXR8 and two of them (the little Yamahas have a surprising amount of bass response).

 

I'm also mindful of Dave Weiser's excellent work on the new Casio PX5s piano patches. I don't have a PX5s, but his comments on why his piano patches are agreeable to FOH in larger settings really has me thinking about the difference between "what does this sound like to me as the player" and "what does this sound like to FOH engineer and the audience".

 

I guess I'm starting to think about trying the SS v3:

 

1) alone

2) in conjunction with one of my DXR8s

3) in conjunction with a small bass combo amp, say like a used GK MB110

 

And of course, all of this is while my SS v3 is apparently delivered to my house, sitting on my front porch while I'm still here at work...

[Danny Linguini]

Hey, rickp -

 

Curious how you'd describe the difference between:

 

1) SSv3 alone, and

2) SSv3 running with the GK MB210

 

Tim

This is a great question, and it's really the biggest thing that has me on the fence with this unit. It will essentially be my PA, and for a number of reasons, I really, really don't want to have to add a sub to the rig, not the least of which being that I'd have to buy a bigger vehicle to haul it along with the rest of my gear. So I need to be sure -- and I'm trying desperately to determine -- that the SS will provide a full enough sound all by itself.

 

About half the songs we play in my duo my partner is on acoustic guitar, and those times my left hand provides the bottom. I'm frequently down to E1, occasionally down to D1 and C1. I don't need to have a booming bass, but by the same token I need more than a thin, tinny representation of the stuff below G2 -- like what my 6" Mackie studio monitors provide at home, only at live stage levels. My Behringer B210's cover that just about adequately (the ZLX-12P's obviously have better bass response, but, as I've bitched about incessantly in another thread, AP's sound like crap through them).

 

Bottom line, I need something that has at least the same bass response -- and at least close to the same grapes -- as the pair of B210's. From everything I've read and heard, the way the SS throws the sound around, it probably has all the volume I'd need. I'm just not yet sold on its bottom end capabilities, particularly seeing so many guys using it with a sub or other auxiliary bass unit to fill out the sound. Has anyone compared the SS's low-end performance with that of an average 10" two-way PA speaker?

 

[cphollis]

If you consider a QSC K10 an average two-way PA speaker (I do), then -- no -- it's not equal. I can set the QSC to "deep" and happily thump away with my bass lines all night. No, it's not a sub, but it's good enough for bass lines in small settings. E.g. brutally small postage-stamp-sized stages.

 

To get close to the same effect on the SSv3, I have to dial it all the way in: crank the SSv3, crank the EQ on my boards which creates unwanted side effects, etc. It gets close, but no cigar.

 

Just joined a soul/funk band, and there are synth bass lines a-plenty. Uh-oh. I don't want to get into my K10s and K12s if I can avoid it. Small venues, bringing too much gear, etc.

 

My Behringer sub should be here on Friday to pair with the SSv3. Even with the $299 spent, I'm expecting it to work better than a pair of K10s because of, ummm, stereo. Especially when you don't have the ability to place poles, etc.

[AnotherScott]

If you're playing dedicated LH bass, I would be inclined to not send the bass patch to the SpaceStation at all, and send it to a dedicated bass amp, which tens to make it sound the most real anyway. There are some good light/small bass amps, which bass will sound great through.

[Aspen]

Hey, rickp -

 

just being realistic about what an 8" unported driver can do in a small cabinet.

 

Chiming in; I agree 98% with your comments, and also what the others guys are saying here about the need for a sub IF you have a heavy left hand gig with a loud guitarist and a heavy handed drummer...I'd say "play it safe", bring a sub.

 

IMHO, the Berhinger is a good one and a great value (hey, I bought one, and I'm cheap...err, I mean thrifty!

 

That said, and not trying to be argumentative..BUT..I take issue with just 2% of that comment; the SS v.3 IS a "ported cab", it's CX2008 8" driver has a very big 2" voice coil, and we did computer modeling it to it's environment to maximize it's LF...so "for it's size", it can really crank out some LF. And by no means does it "die" at 100 Hz, it just starts to roll off at respectable 3dB per octave.

 

Here's a link about this amazing coax 8" woofer, that we convinced Eminence to bring back just for the SS v.3 (well, actually we bribed them with large orders)

 

http://www.parts-express.com/eminence-acoustinator-cx2008-8-guitar-speaker-8-ohm--290-890

 

Adding a sub, and especially one with a pass thru Hi pass filter like the Berhinger, just extends the system to be "flat" to 55Hz and beyond (so NO roll off at all). And this is very nice in larger, louder venues!

 

But again, IMHO it is not really "mandatory" for most medium and smaller venues, as many are reporting here...especially if there is a bass player in the picture.

 

And again, as mentioned several times here already, if you don't have a sub then just place the SS on the floor against a wall or in a corner to extend the LF.

 

 

 

[Brettymike]

That's a beast of a speaker driver for it's size , and huge magnet.

Definitely a no nonsense unit.

 

Brett

[esfusion]

Yep, the SSv.3 is not short of bass grunt. Just for fun I ran my bass through it last night and, although it was a little shy on the fundamental, I couldn't get it to fart out, even at a good volume. Would happily use it for bass on a jazz gig if I had to.

 

I'm very fussy about AP tone and have been carting my ADAM-A7 reference monitors around to small cocktail party gigs. I find the SSv.3 measures up very well tone wise, so long as you keep it at least 8 feet away (not so good at short reference monitor distances where the two speakers can't mix). So my days of carting fragile reference monitors around are over.

 

I find amps that faithfully reproduce the lowest octaves on my Kurz PC3 APs wind up sounding boxy and slow to respond on the mids. So I wouldn't be in any hurry to create a Goliath version of the SSv.3 with 12's or 15's. Plus most bass players appreciate a little bandwidth they can stake out for their own.

 

At really high AP volumes (2:00 o'clock) the SSv.3 gets a bit muddy and shrill (probably less of an issue on organ) so I would guess a sub that limited the frequencies passed through to the unit would permit a considerably higher volume with superior fidelity. However, this is not a need that I have.

[KingstonCrim]

So last evening I finally got the chance to try it out in a band rehearsal. I only brought one keyboard, a Kurzweil PC361 along with a Ventilator for some KB3 routed through the Aux output, mixed together in an $89 Behringer mixer and out to the SS.

 

The first song we worked on has no typical keyboard part, though I do cover a prominent flute line. I use the Kurzs #423 Solo Flute patch which always sounded great to my ears through my home studio monitors, though I was never quite as happy with it in a live mix but this time when the flute part came in it was crystal clear, with all the nuance and subtlety I was used to hearing at home through my JBL monitors or through my ATM-50 headphones. It was just this beautiful sound, hovering there in the air sounding like, well, a well-amplified flute. Though not overly loud, it had no problem cutting through the guitars and drums.

 

The rest of the songs required mostly Hammond/KB3 sounds, some EP, and one where I use the Vox Contintental sound. I got nothing but good comments from everyone on how great the thing sounded. We were rehearsing in the drummers finished carpeted basement, and I was located at the entrance to the room with the SS behind meeffectively out in the adjoining hallway and not even in the same room as us, but it could be plainly heard throughout. They were of course all intensely curious about this crazy little amp. When I told them it was called a Spacestation they all said it looked more like a Space Heater (which when I thought about it later isnt such a bad name for it either!).

 

I think this is where the SS best shines, in the context of a live band setting. It should be perfect for our small club gig next week (seats about 100 people) where the house PA is only used for vocals, everything else is stage amps. Finally heres an amp that made the keyboards sound they I always wanted them to sound, with all the detail intact. Nice job, Aspen. Its a keeper.

 

[AWkeys]

Received my SpaceStation v3 last week and tried it on a gig Sunday. It was a private event at a firehouse - full band, though we played at a reasonable volume.

 

It was a pretty live room (as firehouses usually are), so I kept the side woofer dialed back to about 10-11 o'clock, but it sounded huge! Somebody here had mentioned how the tweeter sounds especially great for organ. I was playing my Nord Stage through my original Ventilator pedal and noticed that right away! Also played my acoustic guitar through it, which sounded wonderful. I did make the woofer fart a couple times with some bass frequencies on piano, which leads me to believe I would benefit from a small subwoofer, so I'll probably order the Behringer B1200 for when I have loud rock gigs. Wouldn't be a bad idea to keep a subwoofer around anyway. Of course, this was just a first time using the SSv3, and I'm sure I could use a little more practice dialing in the gain stages from the keyboard/s through the mixer into it.

 

My only beef is that it doesn't accept balanced ins; I'd like to feed it XLRs from my Yamaha MG06X, and now I see the B1200 only has XLR outs as well. Oh well, guess I need to add a couple XLR-to-TRS cables to my cable bag...

 

Can anyone tell me how much more volume (subjectively or objectively) I can expect out of the SSv3 should I free its speakers of low frequencies? I'd really love to use it on my louder gigs.

 

What a unique piece of equipment! I am really looking forward to using this with a host of different acts I play with - thank you, Aspen!

 

Arne

[cphollis]

Regarding adding a bass bottom -- I don't think it's loudness you're after, it's clarity.

 

The SSv3 can get plenty loud when fed a strong enough signal. Not only loud up close, but loud everywhere in the room. I've never had to probe the upper bounds, since good ear protection would be needed.

 

I did some experiments with my K12, and I have the Behringer 12' sub on the way. My expectation is (a) more bass, and (b) more clarity from the SSv3 as it won't have to deal with frequencies below 100hz.

 

But it's plenty loud already for most every electric thing I do. OK, maybe there are some of you playing in death metal bands out there, but that's a separate issue ...

[rickp]

... just being realistic about what an 8" unported driver can do in a small cabinet.

Chiming in; I agree 98% with your comments, and also what the others guys are saying here about the need for a sub IF you have a heavy left hand gig with a loud guitarist and a heavy handed drummer...I'd say "play it safe", bring a sub.

. . .

That said, and not trying to be argumentative..BUT..I take issue with just 2% of that comment; the SS v.3 IS a "ported cab", it's CX2008 8" driver has a very big 2" voice coil, and we did computer modeling it to it's environment to maximize it's LF...so "for it's size", it can really crank out some LF. And by no means does it "die" at 100 Hz, it just starts to roll off at respectable 3dB per octave.

 

Thanks Aspen, and sorry, did not realize looking at the amp that the 8" is ported, but hope you realize too that the post was not intended in any way to knock the 8" (in fact, I noted it will "clearly produce notes at volume in low ranges") but to just honestly answer a fellow forum member (whom I recognized from many other posts, particularly about venue house pianos, as someone who has played some terrific acoustic piano powerhouses) about achieving that low end grand AP tone and resonance - a tall order indeed - but one I believe is filled by the SSv3 coupled with a small bass amp (and as I am about to further respond to timwat, the GK MB210 amp I'm using is probably overkill).

 

I don't see that as a negative, but rather as high praise indeed for the small unit on top that's doing the magic other amps are unable to emulate.

 

And as I mentioned in the post as a caveat to my comments, I use IEMs and rehearsal speaker systems that have a lot of bass handling and headroom that frame my tone mindset; I probably should have also added that part of my lower register AP thinking stems from owning and playing an '86 Kawai KG2D over the past decades - and further from possessing a left-hand piano-playing touch that quite often might best be described as "having the touch of a blacksmith."

 

As I also wrote, I do believe a well-positioned SS3 alone will be all that's needed for many players in many circumstances. I really like what the 8" does, so much so that I don't have any desire to use a crossover to cut the lower end freqs flowing into the SS3 (the roll-off you designed into the amp prevents any undesirable low-end results); I like the partnership the 8" makes with a small bass amp, with each having some excursion into the range of the other; I think the result is a thick rich tone that is still clearly defined, with high notes from the SS3 seeming to dance somehow.

 

After just three full days of ownership, I wouldn't want to be without this amp. Thanks for a truly game-changing product. I mentioned in an earlier post seeing several well-seasoned musicians (over 140 years of playing collectively) acting like children over the sounds coming from this thing in rehearsal - they're musically hard to surprise, and they were truly enchanted with it. I'm just going to be one of the smaller percentage of happy users who want to use it in conjunction with a bass amp, but still achieving previously unthought of results in stage floorspace of less than two square feet with no poles or negotiation of space for second "spread" stereo speaker to worry with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[endlessummerkeys]

I played a 5000 seat venue and the sub really made it nice. I would recommend the Sub for sure!!!

[Jazzmammal]

Here's a thought for Aspen. What if I picked up another Emminence and put it in an appropriate cab? For us handyman types is there a fairly simple DIY way to get an external speaker tap from the internal LF amp by drilling a hole in the back of the SS for a 1/4" plug? I think that simply adding a 2nd Emminence would do the trick for most needing just that little bit more oomph and you're not talking about lugging another 40-50 pound powered sub.

 

Otherwise, I completely agree if by using a sub I can get considerably louder than I'm already am that would be too loud for me. Ear plugs for sure in that case. I completely understand how people who haven't experienced this amp yet can wonder about volume, I wondered the same. This thing kicks ass.

 

Bob

[cphollis]

 

My only beef is that it doesn't accept balanced ins; I'd like to feed it XLRs from my Yamaha MG06X, and now I see the B1200 only has XLR outs as well. Oh well, guess I need to add a couple XLR-to-TRS cables to my cable bag...

 

 

Your MG06X also has a pair of +4db 1/4" TR outs, right below the XLRs. That's what I run directly into my SSv3. Nice, hot signal. However, I'll need a pair of short XLR female to TRS cables to get from the BD1200 to the SSv3. No biggie.

[HammondDave]

I played a 5000 seat venue and the sub really made it nice. I would recommend the Sub for sure!!!

 

You have got to be kidding! 5000 seats? Please tell us that there was a FOH system this was going through....

[HAMEGZ]

I played a 5000 seat venue and the sub really made it nice. I would recommend the Sub for sure!!!

 

You have got to be kidding! 5000 seats? Please tell us that there was a FOH system this was going through....

 

He didn't say all 5000 seats were filled, did he? :idk :idk

[Brettymike]

I presumed it would have to be 5000 mostly empty seats.

 

Brett

[ADino]

Can I ask a few questions about this amp?

 

How do u run a mixer into it at retain the stereo?

I have a zed10 and yes...I ordered a V3 today.

The zed does have a stereo channel, but do u guys

simply run 2 channels and pan different ways?

 

Say youre doing a large venue, and u need to run foh,

Im assuming youre running outs from the mixer?

 

Next, for those of u running the "baffle"..

do u find it nec to use? I do a lot of outdoor things and that

is an intriging concept.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Boolean]

Apologies if these questions have already been asked ...

 

1. Can the unit be powered from 240V ? ...if not currently, are there plans to release another version for countries with 240V mains supply ?

2. Can the unit be pole-mounted ? i.e. is there an existing receptacle for a speaker stand ?

 

[Dave Bryce]

1. Can the unit be powered from 240V ? ...if not currently, are there plans to release another version for countries with 240V mains supply ?

Units can be set to 240v, but they have to leave the factory that way.

 

2. Can the unit be pole-mounted ? i.e. is there an existing receptacle for a speaker stand ?

No...but the ideal way to use the SS is on the floor, ideally tilted back so it's leaning against a wall.

 

dB