OT: Being asked to waive fee to play benefit event.. Grrr!!

[Michael Wright]

I believe even those who play stuff like telethon's at least get scale. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Reezekeys]

In my case, I would say "it depends." I have done freebies for my daughter's private school auctions. The parents are a big part of the school community and fund raising is an essential and necessary part of their operation. I'm glad to help there. I can't contribute much during their big annual appeal, so this is my way of making up for it.

 

Having said that: if it's an organization I'm not familiar with or have no personal connection with anyone there, and they had zero budget for music, I would most likely politely decline. I might work for a reduced rate if I've heard of the organization, support their goals, and it's obvious that many of the people working are volunteers but yea, if I know that caterers and waitstaff are getting paid then I'm going to need something too. If their event is on a date & time with a good potential for conflicting with a good paying gig (like a Friday or Saturday night) then I might just say no, or negotiate a rate that I can live with should I get a call for a regular $$ gig for that date.

[Joe Muscara]

Possible solution....

 

Ask the charity to pay you in full. You agree to deduct your expenses and make a contribution to the charity for the difference.

 

If they have a problem with that, you are being screwed.

 

I've done something similar....book the gig at the normal rate and encourage band members to donate a portion of their cut. But no guarantees to the charity - it's a personal choice for each member.

I like this.

[Reezekeys]

When I did my daughter's school auction, they gave me a document showing my services had been donated as a charitable deduction and stating a value. They asked me for that figure, and I gave them my regular club date/corporate rate. I gave this letter to my accountant at tax time, not sure if he made use of it or not.

[curly]

Coming from a slightly different perspective, our band members use gig proceeds to support their GAS. We all have full time jobs and families, and play more for the fun of playing out than for the money. Don't get me wrong, we love being paid, and getting free food and booze. That said, we've probably done three or four fund raisers in the last year, but they were events we chose, not the other way around. The beneficiaries were grateful, and we had a great time.

[resigned]

I can only think of one time that playing for free was worthwhile... I "volunteered" to support a candidate for mayor by calling her campaign headquarters and telling them I would provide free piano entertainment at any of her events. It worked... I played several events for the eventual-mayor where I met all kinds of business leaders and got lots of good paying gigs. The mayor and I also became good friends. That's how charity gigs should work.

[Joe Muscara]

I can only think of one time that playing for free was worthwhile... I "volunteered" to support a candidate for mayor by calling her campaign headquarters and telling them I would provide free piano entertainment at any of her events. It worked... I played several events for the eventual-mayor where I met all kinds of business leaders and got lots of good paying gigs. The mayor and I also became good friends. That's how charity gigs should work.

Even though we all joke about "dying from exposure," if you're smart about it, this is how exposure should work. If it's not a totally random thing and actually brings you into contact with people that can further your career, then it's worth considering IMO.

[DanL]

I don't mind doing the occasional benefit for free, but they are typically low key events where it's raising funds for someone who has cancer or something like that, and the proceeds go right to the person. We did one where it was a multi entertainer event that raise over 20k for a girl with cancer. It was a pretty emotional scene at the end of the night when they told her what had been raised.

 

Stuff where there is thousands being spent on the venue, catering, sound and lights, everything but the band, I'll pass.

[JeffLearman]

Or alternatively (and this works out here, not sure about the US) agree to do the gig, but get them to invoice you so you can then "donate" the fee, and if they are a registered charity you can then claim the fee back as a legitimate tax write-off.

 

Out here any donations made to a registered charity count as a tax deduction to the final amount of tax paid.

Are donations of your time tax-deductible in your country? That is essentially what you're donating, and in the US, time is not deductible, no matter whether your time is worth minimum wage or $1000/second.

 

More accurately: you can deduct the fee you donated, but only if you also count the fee as income, so your tax benefit is exactly $0.

 

I'll never understand why musicians are the first to get cut from the budget. That server walking around with the shrimp platter hasn't been perfecting the angle of his or her tray for the past 5 to 50 years. (And I've worked in food service, so I feel like I can make that judgement.)

The difference is that some people play music for fun. I don't think anyone carries a food tray for fun.

 

There *is* a difference. However, you're fully within your rights to say "No thanks".

 

When I did my daughter's school auction, they gave me a document showing my services had been donated as a charitable deduction and stating a value. They asked me for that figure, and I gave them my regular club date/corporate rate. I gave this letter to my accountant at tax time, not sure if he made use of it or not.

As I said above, it's worth exactly $0 tax benefit, in the US and I bet in most countries. The point of deductions is making it as though you hadn't earned the money you donated. So, first you have to earn it, then you can donate it. You can't donate what you didn't earn. If they pay you $100 and you donate $100, then you add the $100 to your income (because you earned it) and then deduct $100 (because you donated it). If no money changes hands but you get some sort of receipt, it's the exact same situation: it's not worth anything on your taxes, if you're doing it legally.

 

Someone on this board does this anyway and said it helps him keep his accounting straight, or something like that. Fine. There's just no financial advantage, no tax benefit.

[Steve Force]

...But... Gross income is gross income. For accurate accounting, and to show turnover (P&L) I would think you would want to show this number as income then expense.

[Ken Beaumont]

I do a Toys for Tots benefit every year in December, and have raised money for someone who's child has cancer. Other than those or some real tragedy no freebees period.

[slowtraveler]

...But... Gross income is gross income. For accurate accounting, and to show turnover (P&L) I would think you would want to show this number as income then expense.

 

Doing a benefit event for free actually has no effect on either your gross income or your P&L, except to the extent that you may incur direct expenses in providing the service. But from a managerial (that is, cost) accounting perspective, it's a good thing to keep track of how much work you're doing for free.

 

And, as another poster pointed out, those out-of-pocket expenses (gas, working meals, etc.) may well be deductible even though the foregone fees are not.

 

Cheers,

 

B.

[Reezekeys]

When I did my daughter's school auction, they gave me a document showing my services had been donated as a charitable deduction and stating a value. They asked me for that figure, and I gave them my regular club date/corporate rate. I gave this letter to my accountant at tax time, not sure if he made use of it or not.

As I said above, it's worth exactly $0 tax benefit, in the US and I bet in most countries.

Someday I'll find a copy of the letter the school gave me and see how it's worded. I just went to the IRS web site and after a quick search saw the very unambiguous language: contributions of your time or services are not deductible. You can deduct your mileage getting to the freebie gig- at 14₵ a mile!

[Mr. Nightime]

There is only one that I will willingly play, the "Sam Jam"

 

Sam Gorman, who it is named after, was a local guitarist/sax player. He was the most generous person I have ever known, and he was my best man at my wedding. He passed away suddenly several years ago.

 

Since then, there has been a yearly benefit called the "Sam Jam". It is administered by another local player, Kenny Michaels, who was a very close friend of Sam's. Kenny supplies the advertising, makes the venue arrangements, provides the PA, even arranges for parking and shuttle buses. The bands ASK to play. There are so many bands, that most of them get one 45-minute set. The club gives all the profits to the charity. The club is one that Sam played at extensively, so they feel it is only right to donate their time, effort, and profits.

 

The charity, "Brevard Music Aid" is a fund to help local players that incur high health care expenses. Many of the recipients of help are friends of mine and it feels good to help out other musicians.

 

So far it has run for 6 years, and has raised over $10,000 for local players.

 

Any other charity, only if paid.

 

 

[JeffLearman]

...But... Gross income is gross income. For accurate accounting, and to show turnover (P&L) I would think you would want to show this number as income then expense.

 

Doing a benefit event for free actually has no effect on either your gross income or your P&L, except to the extent that you may incur direct expenses in providing the service. But from a managerial (that is, cost) accounting perspective, it's a good thing to keep track of how much work you're doing for free.

Right. There are no tax consequences, but good recordkeeping is rarely a bad thing.

[PinkFloydDudi]

Two solutions...

 

Decide how many charity jobs you are willing to do a year. When you reach that number tell people you will put them on the list for next year.

 

Decide block-out days or periods. Fridays, Saturdays, Thanksgiving through New Year, etc... Times that will not interfere with the band's survival income.

 

A good friend of mine who is now touring with Daughtry as their keyboard player told me this when we were starting our band. (He had a local successful cover band). I started getting so many charity requests that it just got too much...but it was very difficult to tell a charity event "no" without a good reason.

 

We now have decided we will do 4 charity events per year. 3 of them are pretty large festivals around town. Then we do 1 more for a smaller event. Of course, if any member of the band needs us to play, we would do that as well.

 

 

[PinkFloydDudi]

Or alternatively (and this works out here, not sure about the US) agree to do the gig, but get them to invoice you so you can then "donate" the fee, and if they are a registered charity you can then claim the fee back as a legitimate tax write-off.

 

Out here any donations made to a registered charity count as a tax deduction to the final amount of tax paid.

Are donations of your time tax-deductible in your country? That is essentially what you're donating, and in the US, time is not deductible, no matter whether your time is worth minimum wage or $1000/second.

 

More accurately: you can deduct the fee you donated, but only if you also count the fee as income, so your tax benefit is exactly $0.

 

I'll never understand why musicians are the first to get cut from the budget. That server walking around with the shrimp platter hasn't been perfecting the angle of his or her tray for the past 5 to 50 years. (And I've worked in food service, so I feel like I can make that judgement.)

The difference is that some people play music for fun. I don't think anyone carries a food tray for fun.

 

There *is* a difference. However, you're fully within your rights to say "No thanks".

 

When I did my daughter's school auction, they gave me a document showing my services had been donated as a charitable deduction and stating a value. They asked me for that figure, and I gave them my regular club date/corporate rate. I gave this letter to my accountant at tax time, not sure if he made use of it or not.

As I said above, it's worth exactly $0 tax benefit, in the US and I bet in most countries. The point of deductions is making it as though you hadn't earned the money you donated. So, first you have to earn it, then you can donate it. You can't donate what you didn't earn. If they pay you $100 and you donate $100, then you add the $100 to your income (because you earned it) and then deduct $100 (because you donated it). If no money changes hands but you get some sort of receipt, it's the exact same situation: it's not worth anything on your taxes, if you're doing it legally.

 

Someone on this board does this anyway and said it helps him keep his accounting straight, or something like that. Fine. There's just no financial advantage, no tax benefit.

 

 

 

I'm glad someone else picked up on this...as it is a pretty common mistake I have seen bands do. IT IS ILLEGAL (in the USA) to simply deduct the amount you think you are worth that a charity said you donated. So if your regular show is $500 - you can't turn around and deduct that.

 

Think about it - who wouldn't tell a charity that their cost is $500 per minute and then deduct everything they owe in taxes? Charities wouldn't care - since they don't actually owe you the money. So the US government isn't quite that dumb to let that slide.

 

There ARE some ways around it though. You are not allowed to deduct your time as a service...BUT, you can deduct costs associated with the event or any goods you donate. Do you charge $10 for a shirt that only costs you $5 to have made? They give them 10 shirts to auction off or give away and you can get a receipt for $100 that is tax deductible.

Did you drive there? Use gas? Mileage on your car? Was advertising purchased using your band name (probably stretching it for that one unless you paid for the advertising). - those things are usually tax deductible.

 

There are accountants who will accept "time donations" as deductibles! But you are doing so at your own risk. If you get audited, they will catch that and you will get fined for it and owe back taxes.

 

In general - do not expect to get much of anything deducted from your taxes from charity events.

 

Think about it - those who donate their time to blood banks or food pantries don't get to turn around and get an hourly wage as a tax deduction. You are no exception that as a musician =)

[JeffLearman]

Think about it - who wouldn't tell a charity that their cost is $500 per minute and then deduct everything they owe in taxes? Charities wouldn't care - since they don't actually owe you the money. So the US government isn't quite that dumb to let that slide.

Gee, I never thought of that! Damn, too bad it doesn't work. My rates would go way up!

 

Do you charge $10 for a shirt that only costs you $5 to have made? They give them 10 shirts to auction off or give away and you can get a receipt for $100 that is tax deductible.

Are you sure? I doubt this is legal, though it might be common.

[richforman]

One of my regular bands has done a small handful of benefit shows over the last year or two. I think in these cases, there is a calculation on the bandleader's part that that in fact the "exposure" we would get from that specific show, rather than being a sort vague unquantifiable article of faith, is real and at least has the potential to directly make us all more money down the line or further other business goals of the band - for instance, if the event is taking place at a desirable venue that he haven't been able to book us into yet, and he has arranged this performance as a kind of audition/showcase which will hopefully lead us to being able to book paid gigs there. Or if the audience at a charity fundraiser seems likely to consist, at least in part, in part of some high-end potential clients where it seems reasonable to expect that this could lead to our being able to book private/corporate events or gigs in other venues as a direct result; or if the event, and the band's place in it, will really get some legitimate high-profile press coverage. Most of these shows have been (as has been mentioned in this thread) at days/times that wouldn't normally conflict with paying gigs, like on a weeknight or earlier in the day on a weekend, and at any rate, these gigs are always strictly optional on the part of the band members and the leader would totally understand if anyone would prefer not to do it (I don't think anyone has taken advantage of that!). Since we all love performing anyway and time spent playing together as a band in front of an audience is always valuable, and the good feeling you can't help but get about having helped a worthwhile charity, I know I've never regretted or been put out by doing them. Of course if this same band didn't also provide for me a steady stream of good-paying very worthwhile gigs, it would be a very different story, but since it does, the occasional voluntary freebies aren't a burden.

[DulceLabs.com]

 

Do you charge $10 for a shirt that only costs you $5 to have made? They give them 10 shirts to auction off or give away and you can get a receipt for $100 that is tax deductible.

Are you sure? I doubt this is legal, though it might be common.

You are allowed to deduct fair market value (with certain limits) for donations like this made to qualified charities.

 

[EscapeRocks]

Reflecting on what made me start this thread, what got me going was the implicit expectation that "we're just the music" while all other providers are being paid, even at a mutually agreed to discounted rate.

 

Now then, as fate would have it, we were contacted the other day by a major benefit asking our rate for our show. It's a good cause in our minds, so we provided them our discounted rate.

 

Accepted, contracts being drawn up. Professional.

 

Again, we do play some freebies now and then for certain people. We believe in giving back. Just don't assume because I'm a musician that my time and education is worth any less than any other service provider being paid for an event.

[Bif_]

what got me going was the implicit expectation that "we're just the music" .............Just don't assume because I'm a musician that my time and education is worth any less than any other service provider being paid for an event.

 

Spot on David!

 

Most of us here have poured years into our craft. I have and still continue to do so. It's an obsession, passion, part of the fiber of my being, etc., and I've worked hard to do what I do. Countless hours practicing, dissecting notes, sounds, rhythms, trying to cover a song or part.

 

The average listener doesn't have a clue what gear costs. No idea that a good keyboard can be $2500. Or more! No idea that it doesn't have speakers.(!) And one board's never enough.

 

I often feel like what I do is worth so much more because I've invested so much of my most valuable commodity into it. TIME!!

 

I've played for pay in many settings with bands, vocalists, background piano stuff, weddings, etc. I'm amazed at how many people expect you to play any song that rolls off their tongue, instantly! Any style, genre, etc. They don't get it.

 

Much of my public playing now is in a church setting, gratis work (and I'm pleased to serve in that manner). Even though I do that willingly for free, I'm amazed at how little appreciation is often shown for that as well.

 

Sometimes I feel like saying "The thing I freely give you couldn't afford if I was charging you for it."

 

While our society seems to have music attached to everything they do (exercising, driving, working, partying) and even though it invokes such strong emotions and recall of past events, for most people, music is just a soundtrack for their life and for many of those it's just background music.

 

My rant over.

 

Greg

[Baldwin Funster]

If its an organized event with local media support and a 10,000 watt pa then I might think about it. Usually the ones ive had the misfortune to be trapped into by bandmates is some small time event that probably is only going to raise $500.00 anyways, 300 watt peavey pa head, no monitors and no stage. If its a good cause I would rather donate $20.00 like everybody else and watch some other suckers try to play.

[cphollis]

I think a few others have mentioned it, but I'll put it out there -- often it's my fellow bandmates who are the worst offenders.

 

Best recent example of a band I'm no longer with: one of the musicians has a heart of gold, and works with at least a dozen different charities and social groups. He's a better man than I in that regard. All of them were great causes, etc. -- but all looking for free entertainment for their next fundraiser.

 

It's one thing saying "no" to an organization you've never met, etc. But it's a completely different thing saying no to one of your bandmates who clearly has his heart in the right place.

 

As suggested above, we put him on a ration: 2 per year + our expenses covered. Seemed like the best compromise.

[J. Dan]

I also think that, just like bar gigs, your value dictates the price. For a benefit, the value you bring is drawing more people into the charity who will donate money. If they would raise $20.000 having a free no-name band, or raise $30,000 by paying $3,000 to a band with a draw, then it makes sense to pay the money for the band.

 

If you're not one of those bands that will bring that value, and their asking you to donate time for exposure, see if you can leverage it. If there are newspaper and/or radio ads, make sure they include your band name. See if there will be local news coverage and if you can get them to air part of your performance. Also, if it's catered, make sure food and beverages are provided for the band for free. If exposure is your compensation, make sure it's the exposure you want that is actually valuable to you. Just some thoughts.

[Markay]

Or alternatively (and this works out here, not sure about the US) agree to do the gig, but get them to invoice you so you can then "donate" the fee, and if they are a registered charity you can then claim the fee back as a legitimate tax write-off.

 

Out here any donations made to a registered charity count as a tax deduction to the final amount of tax paid.

Are donations of your time tax-deductible in your country? That is essentially what you're donating, and in the US, time is not deductible, no matter whether your time is worth minimum wage or $1000/second.

 

More accurately: you can deduct the fee you donated, but only if you also count the fee as income, so your tax benefit is exactly $0.

 

I'll never understand why musicians are the first to get cut from the budget. That server walking around with the shrimp platter hasn't been perfecting the angle of his or her tray for the past 5 to 50 years. (And I've worked in food service, so I feel like I can make that judgement.)

The difference is that some people play music for fun. I don't think anyone carries a food tray for fun.

 

There *is* a difference. However, you're fully within your rights to say "No thanks".

 

When I did my daughter's school auction, they gave me a document showing my services had been donated as a charitable deduction and stating a value. They asked me for that figure, and I gave them my regular club date/corporate rate. I gave this letter to my accountant at tax time, not sure if he made use of it or not.

As I said above, it's worth exactly $0 tax benefit, in the US and I bet in most countries. The point of deductions is making it as though you hadn't earned the money you donated. So, first you have to earn it, then you can donate it. You can't donate what you didn't earn. If they pay you $100 and you donate $100, then you add the $100 to your income (because you earned it) and then deduct $100 (because you donated it). If no money changes hands but you get some sort of receipt, it's the exact same situation: it's not worth anything on your taxes, if you're doing it legally.

 

Someone on this board does this anyway and said it helps him keep his accounting straight, or something like that. Fine. There's just no financial advantage, no tax benefit.

 

Miden is correct according to our tax law. You can deduct the legitimate value of any service or goods you donate to registered charity if the goods or service relate to business you are carrying on to produce taxable income. So if Miden is carrying on the business of supplying music entertainment, and declares that income in his tax return he can claim the reasonable value of his business donation to a charity. Accountants donate their services in similar to virtually every registered charity here in the same way, from EY, PWC down to the neighbourhood tax agent.

 

On the other hand if he fixes their computer but is not carrying on a computer repair business he could not claim his time spent fixing their computer as a donation.

[Adan]

Of all the things to whine about . . .

 

Just say no if it doesn't suit you. Sure the caterers don't do it for free, because what other compensation would they get from it? Carrying a tray of hot food typically doesn't cause people to dance in front of you.

 

I played my share of charities and mostly enjoyed them but be wary of the ones that aren't at least going to treat you right, because that can happen.

[J. Dan]

Carrying a tray of hot food typically doesn't cause people to dance in front of you.

 

Depends on the food.

[Joe Muscara]

Of all the things to whine about . . .

Who are you saying is whining?

[Adan]

Of all the things to whine about . . .

Who are you saying is whining?

 

I'm going to say pretty much everyone.

 

Again, it's not hard to just say "no."

 

I don't know enough famous people to verify this, but I'd guess they are deluged with requests for free appearances. Their agents are probably saying "no" many times a day.

 

The more popular you are, the more of this stuff will come your way.

T