what is your favorite layers?

[J. Dan]

I get sneaky with the piano/string layers - usually it's not intended to be played as a layer, but instead me trying to cover 2 parts. Example: Cold as Ice (Foreigner). We have 2 guitar players and one plays keys, so during that song, he plays the organ part. I play piano, synth, and strings. So the break where they do the descending harmonies on cold as ice, I'm playing the piano part, but have it split/layered in such a way that gassing the vol pedal pulls in the strings but only the top notes of the right hand play strings. I have polyphony of the string part limited to 3 so that as I play the piano chords, it doesn't stack strings on strings, making the vol too loud.

 

I do similar stuff on other songs.

[zukskywalker]

Yummy! Layer Cake Recipes!

 

(This also relates back to the "Why are good brass patches so hard to find?" thread, and OBTW, also for the poor single brass players, usually sax, that are expected to "cover" entire brass sections AND solo all night long.)

 

My Brass Rescue recipe:

1. Come to grips with the fact that you are not, nor will you ever be a brass section, or even worse, multiple brass sections. If you think I'm kidding then check out "Dear Diz" by Arturo Sandaval for lessons in section work. But, KC'ers are the most powerful musician's on the planet so...we can do MORE, differently.

2. Enter the multi-layer, (A nod to Jazzmammal) and start with a decent clonewheel patch that MUST include decent Leslie emulation.

3. Add a brass patch that has a moderate "swell" built in. Most brass patches lack articulation, swell is the least we can do. (BC3a/VL some other time.)

 

Stacotto playing yield's brass "stab" to the organ parts, while chord "landings", or sustained crescendos swell up almost overwhelmingly. Add a pinch of Leslie to the swells and people just start smiling everywhere.

Works like a charm, and saves the sax players behind.

 

[MuzikTeechur]

I layer piano and strings, but only on a few songs that call for it.

With the Kurz, the primary layer isn't effected by the volume (mod) pedal, so I can bring the secondary layer (strings) in with the volume pedal as necessary.

EP and strings works well, too.

 

I know some dislike strings layers, but everything in moderation. My bandleader likes strings layers, he pays me: I play strings layers.

[rickzjamm]

Timwat, do you like the Kronos sounds over the PC3K? I had a Kronos but switched to the kurz and haven't looked back!!

[I-missRichardTee]

PC3K Kronos That's a tough one. They are both so good in so many areas.

Depends which categories of sound, you are especially fussy about.

[hoggernick]

The layer of my vintage vibe EP, with a line6 tap tremolo that increases/decreases the tremolo speed according to volume, midi'd into the ac piano on the fantom XR is to die for. Sometimes adding a little bit of analog pad with a slow attack, it's way dreamy.

[Jazz+]

Rhodes EP layered under Acoustic Piano when playing live and LOUD. It supplements the Acoustic Piano without being noticed.

 

I got this from Joe Sample. Slightly hotter on the piano.

[timwat]

Timwat, do you like the Kronos sounds over the PC3K? I had a Kronos but switched to the kurz and haven't looked back!!

 

Hey, rickzjamm - I have a Kronos 73 and a PC361. They are significantly different, that is for sure. I wouldn't say that I prefer the Kronos sound over the PC361 - they just are entirely different to my ears.

 

For me the Kurzweil orchestral and string stuff cannot be beaten by any other hardware. It just sits in a track so right and perfect. Frankly, I've made a lot of money laying orchestral tracks on the PC361 using stock factory patches for recording work. I just haven't found anything in the Kronos that surpasses the Kurz in that area.

 

Rhodes is another story. Whatever voodoo they're using in the Kronos is just magic for me. Again, nothing I've found in hardware that beats it. The CP4 comes close, but the Kronos just has the ability to deliver this "attitude" that inspires me to play.

 

Pads and synths - Kronos hands down. Virtual B3 - still the Kurz (with the latest OS) is "warmer" and more "organic" than the Kronos - although I haven't installed the latest Kronos updates yet - too busy with holiday gigs, work, life, etc.

 

I also factor in workflow, and that set list manager function in the Kronos is a freaking life saver for me. So essentially, for the demands of live work in the bands and situations I work in, the Kronos just delivers a workflow and soundset that makes it easy for me to deliver the goods. I can't put it any simpler than that. It works better for me than the Kurzweil.

 

Combis sound different than the Kurz - not necessarily better or worse - just different, in a way that is "forward" and "present" in a live mix in a very good way.

 

Obviously, that's just my opinion based on my needs and my ears, and I can see the possibility that others like yourself would arrive at a 180 degree different conclusion. Glad the Kurz is working out for you.

 

Tim

[Synthoid]

I love piano and an aah choir with fast attack. Great for 'epic' moments

 

I created a combi layer like that with my Triton to use with the worship band. Definitely huge... so I only use it once in awhile.

[bluzeyone]

Another one I like alot( could be from the Irish side of me ) a harp/flute.

[icarusi]

I like AP start with DP/EP finish. I've also got an AP/EP/Strings layer with each on a mixer knob so I can adjust the levels on the fly. The strings only trigger on held notes and sustain after, so the strings aren't behind everything played, just held notes, and can sustain after releasing the AP notes, continuing under the next AP playing but not sounding again unless AP notes are held.

[The Real MC]

In my southern rock band I play some third guitar but I'm not a lead player on guitar. So when we play a song that requires two lead parts, most times I play the 2nd part on Hammond and it works quite well. Sometimes it's unison parts so that counts as a layer.

[Theo Verelst]

Different synth types layered together: two or more from additive (organ, digital sine waves), subtractive (analog or good digital simulation, prefer analog), FM/phase modulation, advanced digital synthesis, including good romplers. Preferably with varying effect sends.

 

Instead of running the sounds in a layer more or less parallel, we could go back to Moog, to learn interesting mixing:

 

[video:youtube]

 

T

[Dave Weiser]

Pan Flute + ......

 

More Pan Flute!!!!!!!!

[DanL]

I like a Rhodes with a soft analog pad underneath. I use the morph function on my Stage and use the expression pedal to bring the pad in and out.

[Synthoid]

Once in awhile I use an unusual combination of sounds with our worship band. It's made with two string patches, an electric guitar sound (velocity controlled), with a soft, evolving, breathy filter sweep sound at the end.

[midinut]

I use a kind of strange combi. Starting with a B3 sound with a good leslie sim, I add a clavinet layer which bypasses the leslie effect. sweeten to taste and it will give you some funkiness for those Delbert McClinton tunes ... lol

[timwat]

These are some great ideas I've not tried before. B3 and clav? Going to have to take that for a test drive.

 

Keep them coming!

[Synthoid]

These are some great ideas I've not tried before. B3 and clav?

 

May be illegal in some states.

[bluzeyone]

I've test driven a few on this thread and all of them are killer so far! One of my faves is the ac. piano/ rhodes. Running the ac. a little hotter. I did not expect it to sound that awesome! Add alot of depth without being too thick. Very cool!

[BRW]

Acoustic Grand (EQ'd to remove a bit of the bottom)

+

Rhodes with a warm Analog Chorus

 

So 80's "L.A.", so AOR/MOR/soft rock, so David Foster...so what.

[tucktronix]

An EP layered with a warm pad of strings/choir and velocity-triggered horns has been my go-to layer as of late. It fills the room quite nicely and the horn hits give it that surprise effect.

[bluzeyone]

Nice! I found another one on my Yammy fishin around 'one touch settings'. Jazz guitar/full draw organ w/ leslie sim. Guitar is hotter and the organ really thickens the batch. Be great for lead melody stuff. After some tweaks I think I found my new voice for Stardust.

[Malpaugh]

After watching a video of Greg Phillinganes demonstrating his Toto keyboard rig playing the outro to Rosanna I was inspired to try the piano/organ layer. My attempts were not successful until just recently when I layered my Kross piano with my Electro 3. I discovered two different setups both which use a bright piano layered with an organ using the drawbar setting of 888000004 and another setup with 806608000, 3rd harmonic on soft. In both cases I ride the swell pedal to bring in the Electro plus a footswitch for the rotary speaker. It adds some great energy to Choruses and Outros.

[Tom Williams]

Another "vote" for piano plus strings. The trick is to use right hand voicings that you might actually hear from a the string section. Most bad layer work is due to the keyboardist playing everything like a piano.

 

That said, I love to layer grand piano with just about any quick attacked, sustained sound like B3 or synth brass. Extra points: throw in a bass on the bottom two octaves, gimme a drummer, and I'll give you a room full of sound.

 

A million years ago, I had a pretty cool layer of B3 and sax choir, used it on a cover of Steve Taylor's "Whatever Happened to Sin?"

 

-Tom

[David Emm]

Big ol' Mellotron choirs and strings panned just so, with a creamy synth pad underneath to give it a little breadth and hi-fi sheen. Add a slow LFO, add reverb and watch your head float away if not tied down first. We're talking 5 patches in a harmony that leaves merely "lush" in the highway several miles back. Its a Pure Prog Boner.

[nadroj]

Piano and pad, any time. With a very light sprinkling of some light synth tinkling in the upper registers.

[Jazz+]

Vibes a little hotter with Rhodes underneath. Similar to piano with Rhodes underneath. It cuts live.

[David Emm]

Its enjoyable to tweak a layer into shape. People were moaning about the 01Wfd not having a killer piano in it, but it does: the one I *built*. I split and layered three AC pianos, added some string bass in the lower two octaves for beef and finished with a string pad mixed low under the whole thing for case-ambience. A tad of reverb and EQ equaled close to 3/4 of the Baldwin baby grand I enjoyed as a teen. I still use it because I fed it until it developed some commanding muscle. Never assume that the presets tell every tale and never undervalue your own ability to sculpt.

[Synthoid]

Big ol' Mellotron choirs and strings panned just so, with a creamy synth pad underneath to give it a little breadth and hi-fi sheen. Add a slow LFO, add reverb and watch your head float away if not tied down first. We're talking 5 patches in a harmony that leaves merely "lush" in the highway several miles back. Its a Pure Prog Boner.

 

Mercy!