R & R Hall of Fame? I am done!

[Shamanczarek]

Of all these names being thrown around The Moody Blues have been around longer than any of them going back to 1964. As far as influencing other bands Keyboardist Mike Pinder was friends with John Lennon and turned him on to the Mellotron. "Strawberry Fields" might have been very different without this. King Crimson was heavily influenced by The Moody Blues on their first few albums as were other Prog-Rock bands who expanded on concepts originated by the band.

[Dana.]

Of all these names being thrown around The Moody Blues have been around longer than any of them going back to 1964.

The Zombies have existed since 1962. I don't think anyone would deny that they deserve to be inducted immediately.

[Shamanczarek]

You are correct, sir. The Zombies should have been inducted years ago.

[Outkaster]

Agreed. Hall and OatEs were big stuff, and then they did something unwise- they decided to take some time off. Bad idea. The same happened to Lionel Richie. They walked away at their peak, and it hurt them.

I don't agree at all. I give them big props for walking away at their peak. As Daryl and John have said, the Apollo show with their heroes David Ruffin and Eddie Kendrick was full circle for them; there was nowhere left to go. Cut to now, they've had a huge career resurgence, they're respected by their peers and younger musicians, Live from Daryl's House is a success, they're being inducted into the Hall of Fame, and they're still the most successful duo ever. So how exactly did taking time off hurt them?

 

And their ability to cross over is astounding. For example (from Wikipedia):

 

The song "Out of Touch" was a #1 pop hit, and charted in several other areas (#24 Hot Black Singles, #8 on the Adult Contemporary charts, and #1 on the dance charts).

 

Look, I like Deep Purple too but the appeal of Hall & Oates is universal. They cannot be denied.

 

D-Bon is correct. I have seen a few interviews with Daryl saying the Apollo was the highest point they could have hoped to achieve and there was nothing left to accomplish. The idea was to take Eddie Kendrix and David Ruffin out on tour to revive their careers. It did not work out due to David not trusting the management with his money. He still had cocaine problems. Anyway the late 80s were the downward swing. I have seen Hall and Oates live with Michael McDonald back in 2004 and it was a great show with both acts doing each others songs. Their members have wicked harmonies and love what they do. Look Deep Purple and Yes have a huge appeal but its mostly to us musicians. People are not going to dance to it like I cant go for that or something. They also have a multi-racial appeal. If you listen to the Album Abandon Luncheonette by Hall and Oates I would not call it pop really.

[Cygnus64]

Agreed. Hall and OatEs were big stuff, and then they did something unwise- they decided to take some time off. Bad idea. The same happened to Lionel Richie. They walked away at their peak, and it hurt them.

I don't agree at all. I give them big props for walking away at their peak. As Daryl and John have said, the Apollo show with their heroes David Ruffin and Eddie Kendrick was full circle for them; there was nowhere left to go. Cut to now, they've had a huge career resurgence, they're respected by their peers and younger musicians, Live from Daryl's House is a success, they're being inducted into the Hall of Fame, and they're still the most successful duo ever. So how exactly did taking time off hurt them?

 

 

You'd have to ask Daryl Hall, as he's the one who said it. I heard him on many interviews in the 90s say it very clearly. In fact, one interview is etched in my brain and has been an inspiration to me, I think about it often. I see it all the time at various levels, and it's food for thought. He was vocal about "it was a bad idea" at that time.

 

Cut to now, they've had a huge career resurgence

 

Exactly. That's my point. You'd have to go back 10 years sans resurgence and ask them how it worked out at that point.

What you're saying is "Well, it all worked out", and maybe so. For a lot of people, it doesn't work out. But one can't have a "resurgence" without a downtime before it, hence the "re" part. It's an important lesson at every level. People skipping that annual Christmas gig this year to take a year off might not be at that annual Christmas gig next year. Memories are often short, and fickle.

 

On the flipside there are people like Madonna. Every few months, there's a strategy-planned "I'm outrageous" story: "I found Kabballah, I dropped the F-Bomb, I'm a Satan-worshipping lesbian amputee". She knows that she can't really walk away, so she doesn't even when she does. She knows that the name always has to be out there.

 

Here's a real-world example. I played "The Messiah" today, I think it was the 11th year in a row that I did it at this particular venue on this particular Wednesday. I was looking around the group and trying to determine how many of the players were exactly the same the whole time. Most were. One cellist was on year 5, because the previous cellist died.

 

There was a new fiddle player there on year one. I'm guessing that in 10 years from now, she'll still be there. The one who walked away (probably had another gig) probably lost that Messiah gig. That's what I'm saying, at any level: The public has a short memory, so do contractors and leaders and everybody else. Walking away can have its risks.

[NoahZark]

Hall & Oates should have been disqualified from consideration for the simple reason that they penned "Method of Modern Love," arguably the worst Top 10 song in pop music history.

 

(Okay, D-Bon, I know it's coming, so bring it on......)

 

Noah

[Steve Nathan]

Maybe they should just change the name of the museum

 

The Highly Popular Music Hall of Fame?

The Biggest Record Sales Hall of Fame??

 

Cat Stevens

Hall & Oates made some big records and they weren't all vanilla pop confection with a huge debt of gratitude to their grittier influences, but it's like picking Pat Boone over Little Richard.

 

[Sam Mullins]

I love sports.

 

I love music, in part because it's not sports.

 

We would probably be happier if we stopped trying to equate the two.

[KenElevenShadows]

No one is surprised by R&R HofF snubbing now, right?

 

I mean, how many years have they snubbed Link Wray, Roxy Music, Nick Drake, Black Flag, Motorhead, Television, The Cars, Cheap Trick, SRV, Chicago, The Cure, Iron Maiden, Sonic Youth, Devo, The Smiths, Los Lobos, New York Dolls, and on and on and on....

 

Seriously...how many decades have they snubbed Link Wray? How can you take a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame seriously if you don't have Link Wray in there?

 

So no, I've never taken them seriously. I'm never surprised, only amused when others are cheesed off by them.

 

Personally, I think 2014 is better than most of their years for nominations!

[NoahZark]

Well said, Ken.

[Cygnus64]

No one is surprised by R&R HofF snubbing now, right?

 

I began to be suspicious when they snubbed the city of Cleveland from actually holding the inductions.

[Baldwin Funster]

No offense to Peter Gabriel but what does he have 2 or three albums? I hear Salsbury hill about 10 times a year and shock the monkey maybe 5 times. How about terrible ted? His politics may be unpopular but his influence on rock guitar is undeniable.

[stillplaying]

How about terrible ted? His politics may be unpopular but his influence on rock guitar is undeniable.

 

Who? Kennedy?

 

AFAIK it was the Cars that had the hit with "Who's Gonna' Drive You Home?"

[timwat]

No offense to Peter Gabriel but what does he have 2 or three albums? I hear Salsbury hill about 10 times a year and shock the monkey maybe 5 times. How about terrible ted? His politics may be unpopular but his influence on rock guitar is undeniable.

 

Gabriel has 16 albums (not including compilations, but including movie soundtracks and live albums), while Ted Nugent has 21 albums (again, not counting compilations).

 

I would suggest Gabriel's work (especially the balance of his early solo releases) was very, very significant and influential on later artists in a wide range of areas.

 

I'm not sure I'd agree with your assessment of Nugent's influence on rock guitar, and certainly would not agree that Nugent's influence on rock guitar is somehow more timeless than Gabriel's influence.

 

This is just my opinion, of course.

[Dana.]

On the flipside there are people like Madonna. Every few months, there's a strategy-planned "I'm outrageous" story: "I found Kabballah, I dropped the F-Bomb, I'm a Satan-worshipping lesbian amputee". She knows that she can't really walk away, so she doesn't even when she does. She knows that the name always has to be out there.

I would argue that she's someone who could've benefitted from going away for a while. I don't consider staying in the public eye year after year via stunt PR to be a commendable achievement. It certainly doesn't equate to sustained relevancy. She's spent the last 15 years embarrassing herself, and every album after Ray of Light has been shit.

 

Never underestimate the power of disappearing to generate demand. Look at Bowie. Everyone thought he was done, and then at the beginning of this year -- surprise! -- he releases a new album, his first in 10 years, and it's great.

[Dana.]

Hall & Oates should have been disqualified from consideration for the simple reason that they penned "Method of Modern Love," arguably the worst Top 10 song in pop music history.

 

(Okay, D-Bon, I know it's coming, so bring it on......)

 

Noah

Bring on what? I'm a fan, you're not. The world will continue to spin on its axis.

[Losendoskeys]

No offense to Peter Gabriel but what does he have 2 or three albums? I hear Salsbury hill about 10 times a year and shock the monkey maybe 5 times. How about terrible ted? His politics may be unpopular but his influence on rock guitar is undeniable.

 

Gabriel has 16 albums (not including compilations, but including movie soundtracks and live albums), while Ted Nugent has 21 albums (again, not counting compilations).

 

I would suggest Gabriel's work (especially the balance of his early solo releases) was very, very significant and influential on later artists in a wide range of areas.

 

I'm not sure I'd agree with your assessment of Nugent's influence on rock guitar, and certainly would not agree that Nugent's influence on rock guitar is somehow more timeless than Gabriel's influence.

 

This is just my opinion, of course.

 

It's mine as well and a few others!!

[Cygnus64]

On the flipside there are people like Madonna. Every few months, there's a strategy-planned "I'm outrageous" story: "I found Kabballah, I dropped the F-Bomb, I'm a Satan-worshipping lesbian amputee". She knows that she can't really walk away, so she doesn't even when she does. She knows that the name always has to be out there.

I would argue that she's someone who could've benefitted from going away for a while. I don't consider staying in the public eye year after year via stunt PR to be a commendable achievement. It certainly doesn't equate to sustained relevancy. She's spent the last 15 years embarrassing herself, and every album after Ray of Light has been shit.

 

 

You're talking about a different subject really. I don't own any Madonna albums so I can't attest to their quality. I've never thought of her as a musical genius, but I digress.

I don't consider staying in the public eye year after year via stunt PR to be a commendable achievement.

 

We're not really talking about commendable or not. Going away is hard. Bowie is Bowie, but he made movies, did appearances, and was hardly a recluse in those 10 years. It happens in every field, it's the same way in film.

[richforman]

I don't see Ted Nugent as having had any kind of major influence on guitar or on music. I suspect that's why he's reinvented himself as a goofball political pundit and sh*t-stirrer, because his musical career had petered out never really amounted to much strictly imho. I see him as about a two-hit wonder from long long ago, who really seems to overestimate his musical significance. Have nothing *against* his music at all mind you, it never affected me one way or another and his right-wing rantings are just amusing attention-getters, they don't anger me or anything either. I'll have to admit that I've fantastized about being able to tell him, when he goes off about what a major big time wang dang doodle rock and roll legend he is, that in my whole life of being around and friends with fellow musicians and music enthusiasts of all tastes, I don't remember ever knowing any one who considered himself particularly a Nugent fan, or had given much thought to his music outside of being familiar with "Cat Scratch Fever" and to a lesser degree "Stranglehold" from 70's radio. YMMV! ....not trying to stir up any sh*t myself, if anyone hears it different that is of course completely cool! Oh yeah I saw him in concert once, having won tickets from the radio to see the early 90's Paul Rogers-less Bad Company and his "supergroup" Damn Yankees opened up. Their set was one of the most laughably ridiculous things I have ever seen, I was really embarrassed to be there, just cringe-worthy when they featured a giant inflated Saddam Hussein balloon and the patriotic rabble-rouser that he is, Ted fired a bow and arrow at it from across the stage to show his defiantly anti-Saddam Hussein colors. And he was dead serious, it wasn't being played for comedy! Still haunts me, lol.

 

[HammondDave]

Nugent. What an idiot. I saw him several times with The Amboy Dukes in the 70's. A lot of noise.

[Baldwin Funster]

An idiot maybe. I still like Ted . His energy made me and a lot of other kids of my age at that time want to play guitar. You just haven't forgiven him for his video of him blasting some keyboard with a deer rifle.

[ITGITC]

Maybe they should just change the name of the museum

 

The Highly Popular Music Hall of Fame?

The Biggest Record Sales Hall of Fame??

 

 

I thought we all recognized these folks as a sham a long time ago, no?

 

I enjoyed the gig I played there once & touring the place. But... it's just a business venture, right?

 

...with management that chooses inductees based on attributes other than true innovation, musical talent, skills, genuine contributions to the industry, hard work, and success?

 

[Baldwin Funster]

Aren't all Hall of Fames business ventures?

[JeffLearman]

Perhaps someday I'll be admitted to the R&R HOF!

 

Right after I pay my admission fee.

[KenElevenShadows]

No offense to Peter Gabriel but what does he have 2 or three albums? I hear Salsbury hill about 10 times a year and shock the monkey maybe 5 times. How about terrible ted? His politics may be unpopular but his influence on rock guitar is undeniable.

 

Gabriel has 16 albums (not including compilations, but including movie soundtracks and live albums), while Ted Nugent has 21 albums (again, not counting compilations).

 

I would suggest Gabriel's work (especially the balance of his early solo releases) was very, very significant and influential on later artists in a wide range of areas.

 

I'm not sure I'd agree with your assessment of Nugent's influence on rock guitar, and certainly would not agree that Nugent's influence on rock guitar is somehow more timeless than Gabriel's influence.

 

This is just my opinion, of course.

 

I would agree with this wholeheartedly.

 

That said, while I don't know that Nugent's guitar playing is really *that* influential, although you make a decent case for him being one of the pioneers the use of guitar feedback in rock; his control over feedback with his hollowbody is freakishly amazing, and he really is a very good guitarist. And I like the guy and his schtick sometimes, but he really can be a meathead.

 

The song "Hibernation" has some surprisingly sweet, gorgeous guitar playing. You'll need to get past the silly intro about his guitar being able to blow the balls off a charging rhino at 50 paces and that kinda nonsense. Fast forward a couple of minutes or so. It's a long song with some surprisingly melodic and lyrical playing, including some clean picking solos.

 

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acjOS3VMgQk

[steadyb]

Nugent. What an idiot.

 

Agree. He's also a moron.

[Sven Golly]

Maybe they should just change the name of the museum

 

The Highly Popular Music Hall of Fame?

The Biggest Record Sales Hall of Fame??

 

Jann Wenner's Ego Stroke Emporium?

 

Aren't all Hall of Fames business ventures?

 

Halls of Fame

 

 

[Cygnus64]

Halls and Oats

 

 

Actually, it's Halls and OatEs.

[HammondDave]

An idiot maybe. I still like Ted . His energy made me and a lot of other kids of my age at that time want to play guitar. You just haven't forgiven him for his video of him blasting some keyboard with a deer rifle.

 

When I was 15 a friend of mine was backstage at one of his concerts. Ted was walking off the stage and asked my friend to carry his guitar. He did... All the way home.

 

He called me and in an excited voice he said "Hey, I got Ted Nugent's guitar!" "Sure" I said...

 

Went over his house, and sure enough, there was Ted's guitar with a bunch of Ted Nugent guitar picks in the pick box of the case. We plugged it into an amp and we could not control the damn feedback. We all convinced him to return the guitar the next night.

[Sven Golly]

Halls and Oats

 

 

Actually, it's Halls and OatEs.

 

Bwahahahaha! :D