Is this jazz today?

[Jazz+]

I have transcribed and learned these three covers. Do you think they represent the jazz stylings of today?

 

"Body And Soul" Jason Moran's cover

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP5eieV-eH0

 

"Maiden Voyage" Robert Glasper's cover

[video:youtube]

 

Etienne Charles - "Memories"

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxXrtYssRKM

[yannis D]

iMO It is jazz in the present tense - but why should you even worry how to call it?

[stillplaying]

Liked all three. Anything goes now. They all sound - looking for a positive way of saying "dated" - maybe "vintage stylings" conveys it. I mean that there's nothing on there that would make me say - recent jazz recording because ...

 

New stuff I've heard that I really like - The Bad Plus or (some) Brad Mehldau?

 

If you're asking what's new jazz sound like and when does it stop being jazz - Wynton has been going on about this stuff for years. He's a true modern giant of jazz - glass case on display in your granny's house jazz - but I'm grateful for him.

 

The rest of us modern jazz not "giants" can play what we like - hardly anyone turns up anyway. Audience numbers means our public outings are more "intimate sharings of jazz soundscapes" than ticketed gigs.

 

Loved the clips - thanks for posting. Off to change my sig line. Leaving the photo for now.

 

 

[Mark Zeger]

If you're asking what's new jazz sound like and when does it stop being jazz - Wynton has been going on about this stuff for years. He's a true modern giant of jazz - glass case on display in your granny's house jazz - but I'm grateful for him.

I'm a little sensitive to this subject as huge supporter of Mr. Marsalis for many reasons, several of them personal.

 

You might not be giving Wynton, the Artist Director for Jazz at Lincoln Center, enough credit for bringing "today's artists" into the JALC fold. It's no longer a house only for the jazz masters of the '40-60s. Here are some of the performers at the venue this season:

Bill Frisell & Jason Moran (Frisell is an "artist in residence this season)

Chris Potter's Underground Orchestra

Pakistan's Sachal Jazz Ensemble

Vijay Iyer Trio

Maria Schneider Jazz Orchestra

A program of "new Latin jazz" with Yosvany Terry, Dafnis Prieto, and Pedrito Martinez

A program of "new standards" including Guillermo Klein, (The Bad Plus') Reid Anderson, and Eric Harland

Jacky Terasson

 

[I-missRichardTee]

Liked all three. Anything goes now. They all sound -

 

I have a problem with that- "anything goes now"- Not that you uttered it, but that "fact", as such.

reminds me of this analogy.

I am from 20th NYC , where the food there was a combination of - available almost 24 7, very well made, satisfying , and the widest variety of kinds of cuisine. Just an amazing place to get lost in tastes of various cultures.

When you live in a place that has 100's, maybe thousands of Italian restaurants; and through trial and "error", you can get picky about it, wanting the best. But "best" meant within the standards of that cuisine, be it French, Persian, Indian etc.

 

Young chefs come along ( as in young musicians of the " anything goes " Generation) , and they break all the established rules of a particular style of cuisine. They may mix and match one style of cuisine with another.

I say this to musicians and chefs, learn one style superbly well, before you adopt the "anything goes", throw all established standards away, approach to art of food preparation. Ditto for Musicians

 

About 7 years ago a talented pianist was playing in GC enter... it was a standard or bossa nova, something from non pop world, circa 1940- 1960

Ever chord he played was within the style EXCEPT ONE CHORD... the one chord exception sounded very out of place, broke the style, like hearing Elton John tune, and in one spot hearing Brad Mehldau . I mentioned it ( being his elder ) and he got offended criticizing me mention of it. His pov was anything goes. I utterly differ with him

[Dana.]

How do the onboard speakers sound?

[drawback]

About 7 years ago a talented pianist was playing in GC enter... it was a standard or bossa nova, something from non pop world, circa 1940- 1960

Ever chord he played was within the style EXCEPT ONE CHORD... the one chord exception sounded very out of place, broke the style, like hearing Elton John tune, and in one spot hearing Brad Mehldau . I mentioned it ( being his elder ) and he got offended criticizing me mention of it. His pov was anything goes. I utterly differ with him

 

Perhaps you shouted at him.

 

 

[Morizzle]

New stuff I've heard that I really like - The Bad Plus or (some) Brad Mehldau?

 

I smiled when I read this - Bad Plus and Brad Mehldau had their biggest influence 10 years ago, I guess. Crazy how time flies. I like them both a lot, too.

 

I think the very nice examples Jazz+ posted all represent some of the newer streams and influences of jazz - though the approach and sound is distincly American to me. Listening to those songs reminded me of how different a lot of European jazz sounds. This is meant in no way as a put-down, btw, it just came to me right now how diverse jazz styles have gotten. And I like it

[timwat]

Do your own thing

Find your own voice

Appreciate those who do the same

Leave the naming to others

 

[frogmonkey]

I like the way Robert Glasper reharmonized Maiden Voyage with a Radiohead harmonic vocabulary. Yeah. Give the drummer some. I love it.

 

I'm not sure about "representing" anything, though.

 

IMHO some of the most interesting things happening in modern jazz, are STILL being done by Wayne Shorter and his band.

 

[I-missRichardTee]

Do your own thing

Find your own voice

Appreciate those who do the same

Leave the naming to others

 

Brilliant +1

[Philip Clark]

Jazz and Soul are merging again, much like in the mid-late 70s, now with a smidge of Hip Hop thrown in for good measure. Seeing as they all sort of draw off one another, I'm totally ok with that. Very much digging guys like Glasper, Jose James, Gregory Porter, Chris Dave, Darryl Reeves, Daniel Crawford, et al.

[Steve Nathan]

Well I'm one of the least qualified around here to answer your question, but for me, Etienne Charles's Memories is the clear standout. Jason Moran's piece was next with Glasper a distant third.

[I-missRichardTee]

About 7 years ago a talented pianist was playing in GC enter... it was a standard or bossa nova, something from non pop world, circa 1940- 1960

Ever chord he played was within the style EXCEPT ONE CHORD... the one chord exception sounded very out of place, broke the style, like hearing Elton John tune, and in one spot hearing Brad Mehldau . I mentioned it ( being his elder ) and he got offended criticizing me mention of it. His pov was anything goes. I utterly differ with him

 

Perhaps you shouted at him.

 

I hope not, I doubt it. I recall his position as 'anything goes, and my pov was old fashioned'. I could not disagree more with the young upstart. If you wish to play like Chopin or McCoy Tyner, or Palestrina, choose one, and dive in. They treat dissonance so very differently, to name one notable difference.

How would one know if the pianist played tastefully, or even a wrong note? To me this anything goes is a manifestation of nihilism.

I think this availability of all these multitudinous cultures AND era's of music is an advantage but also a responsibility as well, to respect what went into any given style .

[ProfD]

All of it is the Jazz of yesterday, today and tomorrow. Jazz is an American musical form that is not shackled to industry standards.

 

As a result, musos are free to throw their ideas and influences into the mix and combine different elements of music as they always have which resulted in the birth of all types of Jazz including Bebop, Cool, Soul, Fusion, Smooth, Contemporary, etc.

 

Using the food analogy, Jazz is a musical gumbo. Surely, it will not appeal to every taste bud. Then again, Jazz has always been an acquired taste so that's nothing new.

 

As Tim mentioned above...do your own thing. Listeners will decide whether they dig it or not.

[Jazz+]

Well I'm one of the least qualified around here to answer your question, but for me, Etienne Charles's Memories is the clear standout. Jason Moran's piece was next with Glasper a distant third.

 

I also liked Etienne Charles piece, I emjoy playing those changes for soloing. And I like the re-harm on "Body and Soul", fun to play it like that. And I like the soloing on the Glasper piece, reminds me that he listened to Herbie.

[GovernorSilver]

I dig the first two so far, although I heard a lot more of the Radiohead song than Maiden in the 2nd vid. I'll get to the Etienne Charles later.

[SK]

I could find something to like in each song, but since this is about "jazz today", it becomes a bigger topic. I get tired of all the recent blogs and angry rants about what jazz is supposed to be, when the time spent writing them would often be better spent making music. So this post might sound a little obscure, but (after a long gig just now) here goes...

 

I don't know if I'd call these performances "jazz" for sure, and I think it has little to do with the best of jazz "today", other than musicians labeled as jazz artists doing songs their own way, influenced by the era we are in (which IS a valid part of improvisation.) There are some great things being written/played today, mostly coming from the very best players. The best "jazz" is cutting edge stuff that paves the way for new music, and of course, it's underexposed by default. Most everything else is dignified homage, rehash, experimental, or pop grooves with a jazz label. I wasn't a big fan of the fusion era, but some of it had more "jazz" than some of the stuff we hear today.

 

Etienne's piece is nice. It doesn't blow me away but it is by far the most musical to me, with the other two distant seconds. Moran's "Body & Soul" is primarily a three chord gospel-ly groove, fitting the song to mostly Ebm/Bb, Ab and F7/A. He suggests the whole D bridge in the turnaround and then avoids actually playing it. The reason was probably because it would stop the 'all important' minor groove. I have to say I don't agree with these choices. Example: Following the Fm on the 4th bar is a Em9, which is not better than the original chord (if you don't do it better, the only reason to do it differently is because you can.)

 

If it's not as good as the original, and the original classic song becomes an excuse to play your own groove, then write your own song! Think about it - if the point is to expose people to Body & Soul who've never heard it before, they're not going to recognize it anyway... and if it's to relate to people who know the song, they may feel short changed. For those who really get into this version, its obviously because they like the mood of the 3 chord groove more than the song itself. And that groove is not exploring the famous song or helping to expose it. It's imposing more dance quality to an audience that increasingly listens with their feet.

 

Glasper's "Maiden Voyage" has more influence of "jazz" in his solo (if I was a drummer, I would enjoy playing this version.) But again, it's not doing justice or improvement to the original. The over-intellectualizing of the chord progression (beyond Maiden Voyage) again suggests, write your own song.

 

I know these players are capable of better, and I don't want to think "jazz today" is about dumbing down of classics, or just being "cool". There's still great music being made by true innovators such as Ari Hoenig, Kenny Werner, Jonathan Kreisberg, etc., etc.

 

And pardon the rant... someone may take offence to this post, but the point is just that musicians have a responsibility to make the very best music we can... and thats what will cause positive transformation in the constant evolutionary nature of jazz.

[Jazz+]

Excellent post, SK. I agree with everything you said.

 

Although I hear B-/E to A after the F-7 chord.

Thus, measures 3-4 :

| Bb-9 ... Ab7sus Gbmaj7 | F-7 ... B-/E A |

[Jazz+]

Hi,

 

You can print "Maiden V." here:

http://noteheads.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/maiden-voyage-robert-glasper/

 

"Memories" vamp

 

| A maj7 E/G# | G Maj7 (lydian)|

| F#-11 Fmaj7+ | Ab7alt |

| A maj7 E/G# | G Maj 7 (lydian)|

| D 6/9 A/C# | B7sus Bb7#11 |

 

 

For 'Body and Soul' Jason Moran uses:(he changes the melody in bar 4):

 

||: Gbmaj7/Bb (Bb Aeolian) ... Ab7sus Adim7 :||

bars 3-4: | Gbmaj7/Bb ... Ab7sus Gbmaj7 | F-7 ... B-/E A |

||: Gbmaj7/Bb ... Ab7sus Adim7 :||

[SK]

I hear B-/E to A after the F-7 chord.

That's right - I went quickly by ear without checking it.

[Jazz+]

Also, "Gbmaj7/Bb" instead of Eb-/Bb (Eb not in voicing) (It's Bb Aeolian). Also, Adim7 instead of F7/A

 

'Body and Soul' Jason Moran

 

||: Gbmaj7/Bb (Bb Aeolian) ... Ab7sus Adim7 :||

Bars 3-4: | Gbmaj7/Bb ... Ab7sus Gbmaj7 | F-7 ... B-/E A |

||: Gbmaj7/Bb ... Ab7sus Adim7 :||

[SK]

Correct, for simplicity, it could be voiced as Gbmaj7/Bb.

 

But since Body & Soul's first chord is Eb- (probably Eb-9, depending on how you play it)... I believe that's where he derived the chord from. He just changed the bass to a Bb pedal underneath (same notes as a Gbmaj7/Bb), giving the Eb-9 chord an unresolved feeling. It's academic how one labels these new chords since (IMO) they don't improve the song. Whatever is easiest to read, I guess.

[Jazz+]

Well, he does not include an Eb in his voicings. He plays Bb Aeolian (specifically: the 3rd inversion of a Gbmaj7 four note basic voicing (F Gb Bb DB) played over a Bb root). So the Eb-/Bb chord symbol could be misleading...

[SK]

J+, I'd voice it the same, bottom to top: Gb Bb Db F, over Bb (with no Eb). I said

(same notes as Gbmaj7/Bb)

It's about how you think of it. The simplest way to impart it in a chart is a Gbmaj7/Bb. Body & Soul starts with an Eb-9... same voicing, so I think he chose the original first chord with a new bass note. Whatever you want to call it is fine.

 

 

[I-missRichardTee]

SK you are a highly intelligent musician,,, thank you for the clarifications.

 

ANother comment about this thread and teaching jazz, discussing it and thinking about jazz.

 

In my opinion.. music, which jazz is, can be roughly categorized as having rhythmic, Harmonic, and melodic elements, also tone and mood enter in as well as contrapuntal aspects more or less. These are rough categories of something.. music, that defies perfectly logical categories. But we live with them. My comment is todays thinking about jazz, is overly off balance with the harmonic aspect. It is way way over represented, and to me weakens one's grasp of what music is.

It is a form of over simplifying something.

[stillplaying]

Wow - when did you guys find time to post all this? Didn't you spend the weekend at jazz gigs giving the crowd a bit of rootless DP action?

[Jazzmammal]

Example: Following the Fm on the 4th bar is a Em9, which is not better than the original chord (if you don't do it better, the only reason to do it differently is because you can.)

 

If it's not as good as the original, and the original classic song becomes an excuse to play your own groove, then write your own song!

 

This is exactly correct. I've been telling people this for years. If you're taking a classic like B&S and changing it that much then it's not B&S any more and you shouldn't be calling it that.

 

I didn't like any of these recordings btw. They all sounded like high level music students getting together going "lets see how much we can apply all this cool theory we've learned to completely reharm and rewrite a couple of classic tunes".

 

Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should do it. If you like those grooves and textures then just write your own songs. Of course then you come up against marketing. If you called it "An Afternoon With My Cat" instead of B&S you probably would get few listeners.

 

Bob

 

[Jazzwee]

Hey Jazz+, check out this modern version of Body and Soul. I have the voicings he used here. Personally, I think this is much more interesting than Moran's (in the Modern style).

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBIEnZHUgEo

 

 

[stillplaying]

Bad Plus and Brad Mehldau had their biggest influence 10 years ago

 

I'm hoping that's not the case and the next batch of players won't feel they have to battle their way through the various decades of jazz stylings before they feel they can join in.

 

We need to reconnect with our audience - and the audience is younger. You've got Autumn Leaves at one end and Bitches Brew at the other - and you're going to struggle to produce an arrangement that connects with anyone other than aficionados.

 

I love Ellington and Monk - but I'm off to practise what I preach. Away to knock up some arrangements of tunes that any late teenager/ early twenties will know. Lady Gaga, Ricky Martin.

 

Amy Winehouse.

 

Oh Amy, they've gone and made me try a ReHarm and I said

 

Hell yes.

 

If I gig them I'll youtube it and post a link.