One song, two bands, two keys

[becoming53]

Just started sitting on occasional gigs with a second band as well as still playing semi-regularly with my main band...both covers bands playing populist stuff, with a fair amount of overlap in the material. But for most of the songs which are common between the two sets, each band has their preferred key...so I either re-learn the songs in a new key, or stick with the key I know for the songs, and use the transpose button with the new bands. Anyone have this kind of situation regularly and can make any general recommendation on which option is least likely to screw me up?

 

Cheers in advance for any advice.

[David R]

Relearn them in the new key. Relying on a transpose button is an accident waiting to happen. Using harmonic analysis (or the Nashville number system or some variant of it) to reduce it to I-vi-ii-V or whatever makes it easier to transpose into whichever key.

 

It's definitely a head-scratcher. I was subbing in a different band with some overlap from my steady gig, and the singers often did songs in different keys. When they were part of a medley, it was fine (as the modulations were pretty clear to what key they'd be in), but the stand-alone songs were harder to remember. It was always a quick, "What key do we do it in again?" before the downbeat.

[High Diving Act]

Best answer is make sure you write the key on the set list songs. If you like a challenge.. just play in a different key.. or hit the easy button.. your choice.

I've been in this scenario many times. For some stupid reason I used to always feel like I'm cheating if I hit that transpose button. Now.. I feel like I'm cheating the song if I don't.. as I can usually play more fluid in the original voicing and key.

 

[nadroj]

Learn it in the new key. I've done the transpose button thing a couple of times in the past, and as someone above said it would, it rarely ends well. Learning it in another key will also benefit you more in the long run.

Just remember which band has it in which key!

 

 

[Josh Paxton]

I deal with that situation routinely. Actually learning the tunes in the required keys has many benefits, and no drawbacks that I can think of (unless you consider the time/effort to learn it to be a drawback). The transpose button has many drawbacks, and the only benefit it offers is that it allows you to expend less effort in the short term. But in the long term even that part evens out, because the more you get used to playing songs in multiple keys, the more automatic and effortless it becomes (making you a better and more employable musician in the process).

 

The only exception is if the technical limits of your rig make one key more practical than another. The only time I use the transpose button is on a tune where I can't get all the notes on all the sounds I need in the transposed key, due to the limited split points on the Nord Stage 2.

[area51recording]

My big stumbling block with the transpose button is I always forget that I'm transposed, and thus begin to play the next song in the wrong key.....I'd say, at least for myself that I'd rather play the tune in the different key, unless it's something with a ton of complex changes.....

[opdigits]

I'm with FunkKeyStuff. The ability to play any song in any key makes you a fuller musician!

 

That said, I do occasionally use the transpose button, but rarely anymore.

[J. Dan]

I've never really had to do it simultaneously. Usually it's more like my new band does it in a different key than my old band, in which case I've just relearned it.

 

One that caused me some confusion was with the sax. My last band tuned down 1/2 step. Since they were playing everything in the regular key, just tuned down, I essentially did the same...just tuned my whole rig down 1/2 step and played everything the way I would normally (that way I didn't have to relearn, and if they say it's in E, I just play in E...not "ok, but they're tuned down 1/2 so their E is my Eb, so Eb for me..."). Anyway, that's fine for Keys, but you can't do that with sax. So sax I just had to play 1/2 step lower. Some songs I played in the original key, then 1/2 step lower with them, now going back to the original with my current band. Get's confusing sometimes remembering which note to come in with. Once I get going, I'm fine.

[MuzikTeechur]

Back in the day, before digital recordings were the norm, we often had to deal with a variation in record or tape speed. Is the song in D? Eb? E?

I often had to re-learn a tune (on the fly).

I don't even know where the transpose function is on my keyboards.

[J. Dan]

Back in the day, before digital recordings were the norm, we often had to deal with a variation in record or tape speed. Is the song in D? Eb? E?

I often had to re-learn a tune (on the fly).

I don't even know where the transpose function is on my keyboards.

 

Speaking of...when I first joined my current band, I had to learn a lot of songs before the first gig, and as such, had never played some of them with the band before the first gig with them. I had a few surprises. I learned them all in the same key as the original, but apparently they had changed a few of the keys. They had been doing them so long that they didn't remember that they had changed them. I managed to adjust on the fly pretty well. The biggest challenge to transpose on the fly was the solo in Del Shannon's Runaway. I believe it was 1/2 step off. I had a few flubs in that one, but got through it.

[Delaware Dave]

Relearn them in the new key.

I don't do this anymore. I play in a couple of bands and frequently the songs may be done in different keys to accomodate the singer's voice. Some of the songs I've been doing a long time and my fingers are on autopilot. Doing the song in another key would actually mess me up. Every k/b I've owned in the last 15 years has a transpose key; use them, that is why the feature is there.....

[theGman]

I currently have the same half-step-down deal as mentioned by JustDan. What I do is on this Jupiter 50 is to set Bank 1 (16 settings) in normal key, and exactly duplicate these settings 1/2 step down in bank 2...this really makes it easy for me, basically doing it the guitar way.

 

If I ever get in a bind with a request, etc. which rarely happens, the J50 has transpose buttons right on top.....unlike my lower board, a Nord E3, which requires a number of steps. I know the Nord steps for transposition aren't all that hard, but playing live on a relatively dark stage, with it as the lower board (in the shadow of upper board) makes it a PIA.

 

I never had a Roland before, and I'm not an expert like a lot of you guys, but for live gigging I find it very user friendly.

 

Kind of on topic: Since I play by ear, my problem is remembering which key we begin in, since I play them the same regardless of key. I do write down the key we use, but sometimes I miss one or two.

[RudyS]

Another argument for not using the transpose button is voicings. Not all voicings sound good in every key. For example, you use the same voicings as the original key but the transpose button puts it in a too low register. It will sound rubish..

 

 

[Josh Paxton]

I was gonna make that same point. I mean, if you're only moving a half step in either direction, you're probably okay. A whole step is considerably more dangerous, and a minor 3rd or more is pretty much guaranteed to sound, shall we say, suboptimal. And that's why I've never bought arguments about staying true to the song, playing more fluidly in the original key, etc. I look at it this way: if the original artist had played the tune in a different key (for whatever reason), do you really think they'd play the exact same parts moved up or down by a given amount?

[I-missRichardTee]

Resonating with last few posts Back in the ancient days of professional song writers, arrangers, copyists... an arrangement would likely be a disaster if transposed up or down a minor third even. It would HAVE to be written anew.

But in a pinch, being a practical person.. use transpose button and if it sounds either thin or muddy, maybe adjust the chords inversion.

But also gradually learn to play songs in more than one key!

[nickd]

Happens to me a lot, and I do learn the songs in both keys.

 

Even worse is when the two bands have slightly different arrangements, perhaps with extended solos, extra choruses or different endings - really tricky to remember which one is which!

[becoming53]

Yeah that's the other problem...my main band aren't too keen on guitar solos but the new band will shove them in any chance they get...a few times so far in rehearsals I've come to what I thought was the end of the tune, only to find there's still 32 bars of lead guitar to get through.

 

Anyway, I've re-learnt most of the songs that are common between the bands in the new key (which, in most cases, is actually the original key for the song). Luckily none of them have been complex so far. Next month I'm gigging pretty much on alternate Saturdays with each band, so it'll be interesting to see how confused I get...thanks for the input so far, I figured it'd be a fairly common problem!

[RABid]

I've had singers arrive for a job and say "My throat is bothering me. Let's drop everything a step." I don't use the transpose button because it messes with my ear. When I play a C I want it to sound like a C. If it sounds like a B then I think my hands are out of position.

 

Besides, I've never played a B3, Rhodes or acoustic piano with a transpose button.

[JCRoswell]

Sometimes I will learn a song in different keys, not because I need them in other keys, but because it really forces me to know what's going on in them. I've been working lately on Misty (because, seriously, why don't I know this from memory by now) and playing in different keys helps with things like "melody starts on 5 here" and " this part is ii/V of ii". Although, like a few have pointed out my voicings sounded awful for a few chords when dropped a minor 3rd.

 

What's also fun is when you're in a rotation with another keyboardist in a band and no one remembers to tell you "we cut out the 2nd verse to Just the Way You Are". Yeah, good times.

[Chris Link]

I've had singers arrive for a job and say "My throat is bothering me. Let's drop everything a step." I don't use the transpose button because it messes with my ear. When I play a C I want it to sound like a C. If it sounds like a B then I think my hands are out of position.

 

Besides, I've never played a B3, Rhodes or acoustic piano with a transpose button.

 

When a girl singer (go figure) failed to mention before we rehearsed for a one-off gig that she did several songs in non-original keys, I tried to use the transpose button and found that if was more than two half steps there was a "disconnect" between what my hands were doing and what my ear was hearing. I ended up relearning the tunes.

[Baldwin Funster]

Some high level professional guitarists use capo's when necessary. They don't have a problem moving them or removing them when necessary. The T button is a tool not to be feared. Some songs have unique fingerings that will only work in the right position. No matter how good you are it isn't right unless its right. If you need time in between songs to get your rig back in order, tell the band give me time or F-You. Guitarists get time to switch guitars, demand the same consideration.

[StanC]

Slightly OT: I suppose we could spend the day debating whether using the dreaded T key is "cheating". But how about this: When the singer has to change a key from the original, use the T key to learn the song in the desired key change by playing along with the original recording. i.e original is in A(440), singer transposes to G, transpose board to G (which is really A440) and play along in G with the original in A.

[WesG]

StanC - I use the T key for learning-off-CD all the time. Although I have also been known to use Audacity to move the recording instead.

 

I also have an old piano module with a tuning knob I use to match recordings. I can't tune to an outside source very effectively with a menu-diving tuning adjustment, but I can twist a knob for great instant results.

[MuzikTeechur]

Some high level professional guitarists use capo's when necessary. They don't have a problem moving them or removing them when necessary. The T button is a tool not to be feared. Some songs have unique fingerings that will only work in the right position. No matter how good you are it isn't right unless its right. If you need time in between songs to get your rig back in order, tell the band give me time or F-You. Guitarists get time to switch guitars, demand the same consideration.

 

This has more to do with using open voicings on guitar than simply transposing. If the guitarist is using barre chords it's a moot point. I'm certain James Taylor can play in any key without benefit of a capo, however using open voicings for a song in the key of F# on guitar would be devilishly difficult (without a capo) and not worth the effort.

[SpaceNorman]

I run into this situation with some regularity. How I end up handling it really depends on the song. Typical I-V-IV sort of stuff ... I play it in whatever key the band de jour is playing it in. Other songs however are just too big a pain in the ass to try to keep straight in different keys simultaneously. For those songs - I simply create a patch that is "pitch adjusted" to be in the key I want it in. When I play the song with Band A - I use the "Band A" patch ... when playing with "Band B" I use the "Band B" patch. Given how I manage my patches (a patch for each song in the repertoire - stored by song name) - I don't run into issues forgetting to engage / disengage the transpose setting - and I don't have those deer in the headlight moments trying to remember which band / which key do I need to be in for this song tonight. At the moment, I think there are two songs in my current repertoire that get the "pitch adjusted" patch treatment - so it's not a big issue.

[theGman]

If our classic rock band played a whole step down, using the transpose key would be a moot point; we would simply be playing a G in F, D in C, etc. Not a need to transpose. BUT..

playing a half step down with songs *in which the keyboard has a noticeable lead part*, example the break in the Breeze, I find it much more relaxing and less chance of error to transpose. I play these leads by visual and muscle memory, so this way is simpler.

 

I do make out on the SRV tunes, since the half step down on top of his half step down puts me back on the white keys.

 

 

Im not trying to impress myself; I can play them in the original key, but quite frankly I don't want to overload my simple brain in a live setting any more than necessary. When I do play a song without transposing, I give myself a pat on the back, take a bow, and move on; this way, all the purists in the crowd with perfect pitch will get excited.

 

My pitch is I guess with a half step of reality; I do have problems if I tried to go off a whole step. I have experimented with this and found I make a slew of mistakes, since my brain is trying to recalculate the original key on the fly, etc.

 

 

[bloodyMary]

 

There's a very big advantage to using the Transpose function.

 

Whenever I work with guitarists who tune in E flat, or D, it's easier to communicate if I am also tuned down.

 

First, I can look at the fretboard and figure out what he's playing, without needing to transpose it on the fly. "sight reading" the fretboard is hard enough for me as it is.

 

Second, and te more important - most of them guitarists don't change the chord names. They play an A, but it sounds like a G. They still call it A. SO to eliminate the "wait, is it your G or my G" situations I simply use their tuning.

 

 

 

 

Another spot where I use it, is my new cover band - They changed keys for the singer, and forgot to tell me about it. I didn't have the time to prepare (or chops to transpose on the fly), so I resorted to the T button.

 

 

 

And lastly, they do tunes in keys like C#, or E flat, I transpose them to easier keys like C or E because frankly, I don't feel equally comfy in all 12 keys. This is something I need to work on.