Digital Piano for Jazz gigs

[AnotherScott]

QUESTION:

For anyone considering a P105; why not a SP280?

 

ANSWER:

The board probably weighs 38 pounds- almost as much as a P155.

 

;-)

[voxpops]

The SP-280 has a lot going for it. The potential for not having to carry additional amplification to small gigs makes it tempting, despite the fact it weighs about 12lbs more than the P-105. However, it doesn't have bass samples or an adjustable split point. So, for those needing these refinements, the only real contenders in the truly lightweight category are the Casio PX range, the Yamaha P-105, and the Numa Piano. They all require the user to accept compromises in one form or another. Having owned the Numa (on more than one occasion), and the earlier Privias, my choice on this occasion was the P-105. If all you need is one decent piano, and one Rhodes, plus the ability to split for LH bass, I think the Yamaha is a very good deal. No, it won't compete with a CP5 (sorry, Dave), but it's a third the price of the Numa (which has a poorer finger/sound connection, IMO), and sounds less "plinky" than the Casios.

 

I still think that the older Roland FP-4 gives all these other lightweight boards a run for their money, and the new FP-50 may prove to be an interesting contender in the middleweight category. I have an RD-64 arriving at the end of the week, and it'll be interesting to see how the latest incarnation of Ivory-feel G behaves.

[LarsHarner]

QUESTION:

For anyone considering a P105; why not a SP280?

 

ANSWER:

The board probably weighs 38 pounds- almost as much as a P155.

 

;-)

 

LOL. That's why the PX130 goes in the car- the SP280 is a little bulky.

I almost find the PX130 on par with the P105- the speakers are about the same, good for something so portable.

Rhodes in the PX130 had a little more darkness to it

[ProfD]

The Korg SP280 sounds good. In terms of build quality, I thought the sliders felt a little flimsy. Otherwise, it's a decent DP in that price range.

[kanker.]

Reason #1 to not but a Korg SP280:

 

It sounds like a Korg digital piano. In other words, not anywhere near the class of Roland or Yamaha.....15 years ago....

[Dana.]

I have an RD-64 arriving at the end of the week, and it'll be interesting to see how the latest incarnation of Ivory-feel G behaves.

I can tell you: horribly. I know because I've played it. The action plays like it's broken, and the default velocity curve for the acoustic piano sounds is embarrassingly off the mark. Roland should be doing a factory recall -- it's that bad.

[voxpops]

I have an RD-64 arriving at the end of the week, and it'll be interesting to see how the latest incarnation of Ivory-feel G behaves.

I can tell you: horribly. I know because I've played it. The action plays like it's broken, and the default velocity curve for the acoustic piano sounds is embarrassingly off the mark. Roland should be doing a factory recall -- it's that bad.

Oh my, that's unnerving. I was very much hoping it would be a useful tool for band gigs.

[SK]

I still think that the older Roland FP-4 gives all these other lightweight boards a run for their money, and the new FP-50 may prove to be an interesting contender in the middleweight category. I have an RD-64 arriving at the end of the week, and it'll be interesting to see how the latest incarnation of Ivory-feel G behaves.

I still have my FP4 - still problem free. But as it's getting older, I reluctantly decided to get the FP4F , which I ended up not liking. Some refinements in the sound are not enough when other aspects of the quality have changed for the worse, or useful features have been omitted.

 

Fortunately, the FP-50 was announced the following week. I just took the FP4F back and got the FP-50 (I would have gone for the FP-80 except for the weight.)

 

A/B'ing the FP-50 next to the FP4F: I did not like the G-Feel action on the FP4F, but the new G-Feel on this FP-50 is better, quieter, bottoms out softer and is responsive. As for the RD-64, I haven't played it, but it seems G-Feel actions are not all identical. (I wouldn't worry yet, voxpops.)

 

I've gone through every detail on the FP-50 and could do a review of it or answer questions if anyone wants. I don't like everything about it (there are some slightly maddening aspects), but bottom line: I believe the new speakers (and pairing it with a subwoofer) is the best piano sound I've had on any DP.

[AnotherScott]

A/B'ing the FP-50 next to the FP4F: I did not like the G-Feel action on the FP4F, but the new G-Feel on this FP-50 is better, quieter, bottoms out softer and is responsive.

Is it any quicker? What I remember of the FP-4F is that it felt sluggish on the return. Also, it was not an easy board to do a thumbnail gliss on. Maybe the trigger point was low...?

[SK]

A/B'ing the FP-50 next to the FP4F: I did not like the G-Feel action on the FP4F, but the new G-Feel on this FP-50 is better, quieter, bottoms out softer and is responsive.

Is it any quicker? What I remember of the FP-4F is that it felt sluggish on the return. Also, it was not an easy board to do a thumbnail gliss on. Maybe the trigger point was low...?

I would say it is quicker, although I can't say if it's as quick as you would like (I gliss about once every 10 years.) And of course you can adjust the action some.

 

The FP-50 feels like it has a slightly shorter throw, a softer, quieter bed (more cushioned landing), and dynamically responsive to me. The FP4F was clunky and much noisier, a harder landing, and hard to technically articulate.

[Jazz+]

I owned a FP-4F and a FP-4 at the same time. I sold the the FP-4F after a few months and kept the FP-4. The FP-4F sounded muffled, the action felt sluggish and was tiring, and the velocity curve was too jumpy for my playing. Individual notes would suddenly sound far too loud with only slight finger accents.

[Dave Ferris]

I still think that the older Roland FP-4 gives all these other lightweight boards a run for their money, and the new FP-50 may prove to be an interesting contender in the middleweight category. I have an RD-64 arriving at the end of the week, and it'll be interesting to see how the latest incarnation of Ivory-feel G behaves.

I still have my FP4 - still problem free. But as it's getting older, I reluctantly decided to get the FP4F , which I ended up not liking. Some refinements in the sound are not enough when other aspects of the quality have changed for the worse, or useful features have been omitted.

 

Fortunately, the FP-50 was announced the following week. I just took the FP4F back and got the FP-50 (I would have gone for the FP-80 except for the weight.)

 

A/B'ing the FP-50 next to the FP4F: I did not like the G-Feel action on the FP4F, but the new G-Feel on this FP-50 is better, quieter, bottoms out softer and is responsive. As for the RD-64, I haven't played it, but it seems G-Feel actions are not all identical. (I wouldn't worry yet, voxpops.)

 

I've gone through every detail on the FP-50 and could do a review of it or answer questions if anyone wants. I don't like everything about it (there are some slightly maddening aspects), but bottom line: I believe the new speakers (and pairing it with a subwoofer) is the best piano sound I've had on any DP.

 

That's a great endorsement coming from you Steve. Just sent off an email to Pierre Julia , the acoustic piano dealer who also deals with Kawai & Rolands DPs. I said to let me know when he gets either the 50 or 80 in. If the 80, with its new speaker system sounded that good, I could see myself sucking it up on the 52 lbs. But yeah definitely want to hear the more portable 50.

[SK]

Well Dave, what can I tell ya - no DP has ever 'done it' for me. Do I love the FP-50? No. Is it the best piano sound I've had on a DP I've owned? Most definitely. But that's after adding a subwoofer, which grounds the sound solidly like an acoustic. I'd imagine the lows from the sub would easily beat out the lows in the extra speakers in the FP-80.

 

And to be clear, I'm not comparing this to the Kronos pianos or CP1... I'm saying it sounds best to me in its price range/weight class, and its almost total self sufficiency as a standalone piano keyboard. And of course, never will everyone agree on these things.

 

The basic piano sound is still the same as the FP4F, probably slightly refined. It's the new speaker system which I'd say is twice as clear (well matched to the sound) and about 1/3 louder that makes this work.

 

Add a more expressive action, a better physical design, and some new sounds and features like "cabinet resonance, soundboard behaviour, etc." and these several incremental improvements add up to what the fP4F should have been.

 

There are still some impurities in the sound on some notes, but the overall effect is very pleasing and realistic. There are some dumb omissions (like not being able to save a reverb setting, no USB midi cable out requiring buying a midi input/USB cable), but that's the price one pays for getting the best incarnation of this instrument.

 

Comparing it to the Yamaha acoustic baby grand here, it held its own in realism across most of the keyboard and matched the full volume of the acoustic with the FP-50 volume set halfway.

 

All this means is that the FP-50 (plus subwoofer) is certainly good enough for the job (or for rock gigs, go through the house), and it's also enjoyable enough to play.

[16251]

I own an FP-4. I was very disappointed with the fp4F. Not only did the action suck but they removed the digital effects. Roland - I like your products but you SUCK! I don't know about the FP-50 but I hope it has effects, although I sticking with my wonderful FP4.

 

I also have been digging the internal sounds again after schlepping my PC to run Vintage D VST. The piano sound is very playable.

[Dana.]

Oh my, that's unnerving. I was very much hoping it would be a useful tool for band gigs.

I really wanted to buy the RD-64. I've been looking for a compact board with great weighted action to use as a controller for virtual instruments; the RD-64 seemed ideal. But for me, the action is unplayable.

 

Having just read Jazz+'s comments about the 4F, it seems his experience with the Ivory Feel G action is similar to mine, i.e., sluggish response and velocity issues.

 

And while weight isn't a consideration for me (since I don't gig), there's no reason for the 64 to weigh more than a Privia.

[Jazz+]

Are the Roland FP-50 on-board speakers aimed up at the player for better clarity or are they aimed forward towards the audience (or wall) so that the player sits behind the stereo sound field thus it sounds muffled?

[SK]

Are the Roland FP-50 on-board speakers aimed up at the player for better clarity or are they aimed forward towards the audience (or wall) so that the player sits behind the stereo sound field thus it sounds muffled?

The speakers are in the back, with extra speaker ports/holes in the back for what may be slightly larger speakers.

 

But muddiness is not the problem with this keyboard like it was with the FP4F - this is loud and clear. And you can now adjust cabinet resonance, which I think was part of the boxy sound in the FP4F. The one thing missing in the speakers is low end, and a small sub completely covers that.

 

I wouldn't want these speakers aimed at me - it could get too loud for me and not project out enough.

 

The FP-80 speakers face you... I'm guessing the FP-80's new "Acoustic Projection System" widens the sound, so you don't feel like you're sitting in the direct line of speaker fire.)

 

 

[Raymb1]

For about a year now, I've been using a Casio XWP1. I can't carry heavy stuff around anymore. The Casio weighs 11 pounds and costs under $500.00. It has good piano sounds, passable B-3 sounds with 9 drawbars, and a full fledged synth. Check it out. Later, Ray

[mate stubb]

I cannot imagine playing a jazz gig on an unweighted Casio board.

[spazzkey]

I probably would have multiple DPs if I had the space. This sucker takes up most of the room though. A heck of a predicament to be in, I know.

http://www.divshare.com/download/24060463-ebe

 

 

can you lay it on any thicker?

[LX88]

I tried to start a thread on " Superior Grand" era Rolands a few months back.

 

I think that the Roland FP4 , RD 300GX, RD 700SX and ( possibly) RD700 GX fall into this category.

 

For my money this Superior Grand sample was always preferable to any Casios. I sat down and played a RD300GX next to a Yamaha CP4 recently and was pleasantly surprised by that comparison.

 

I looked and looked for an FP-4 this past winter, and wound up purchasing my second RD300GX. I am still looking for a shipping box in the San Francisco area so my friend can ship it to me. ! Other wise I will pick it up this fall.

 

 

[LX88]

Also ... I did a shootout between the Yamaha CP33 and Yamaha P120 recently, and the P 120 won.

 

I have found some magic headphones (JVC 300 something) that just make the P120 sound like magic. Classic Yamaha. Very much like the CF sample in the Yamaha CP4 or CP40.

 

The P 120 surprised me. It was my consolation after my RD300GX was stolen and then recovered broken. The 50 dollar price tag was nice too.

 

All the tones sound good through the right playback source. No plunkiness in the midrange.

[David Loving]

I have a PX160 that works everywhere...and it's light.

 

[Raymb1]

https://www.keyboardforums.com/threads/casio-px-5s-vs-nord-stage-2-blind-piano-sound-test.25959/ After reading through thread, some may not have heard this test yet.

[Joe Muscara]

ı completely agree that you should consider Kawai ES7 . Best of the best, Kawai brand care about quality, perfection of sounds (not plastic or cheap sound) sampling, solid nice & simple aesthetics, full weighted keys exactly like the best concert pianos, put Casio, Yamaha and also Kurzweil in trouble to compete if you want a [link nuked] for life. More sounds, better pedal, much better stereo "sensation", intelligent L & R plugs for headphones. Nice durable metallic sheet stand (you can use a magnet!!) almost unlimited polyphony, editable effects!! etc.

 

This is *spam* . It's been posted on the Nord forum and Harmonizer pointed out somewhere else as well.

This is what the Notify button is for!